Georgia Tech: the lynchpin

[djct1999]

GT alone wont make the ACC flinch. I feel that the B1G is using GT as leverage to try and force UNCs hand. GT alone is no different than UConn, a filler.

 

[upstater]

I've been several times (I did go to law school at Kansas). Nothing shocking. Tulsa is much nicer by the way, more wooded, rolling hills. OKC is pretty much the start of the southwest. But it is one of fastest growing. And Texas has the top three. Denver is on the list as well.

Agreed about Tulsa.

The thing about Connecticut is that it is populated in between the cities with many wealthy communities. The Pac-10 rejected Oklahoma. Can you imagine what the B10's attitude is?

 

[upstater]

You've got Miami on your list twice. I would say this list begins with UNC and UVa.

Then it depends on what you are looking for: if you want football excellence above all else, VT, Clemson, FSU. Miami, due to history comes above them. But not NCSt or Duke. That makes GT 6.

If you are concerned with markets? GT is next (3), unless you need Duke to get UNC, in which case GT is 4.

Disagree here.

You're right about Miami. But Duke and NC state are both more prized than GTech. Duke is a household name. The question here is one of landing spots. You can't rank these schools in a vacuum. GTech -- even though I rank them 9th -- gets one of the first invites to the wealthiest conference, B1G, not because it's the prettiest, but because of the fit. NC State doesn't fit there. But if the B1G's spots are taken, where does GT go? Not to the SEC. Despite your ranking of GT over NC State (I don't see it by the way in neither football nor basketball or even market) I say SEC takes NC State before GTech.

So, then, GT is in a fight with Miami, FSU, Clemson and one of VT/NC State for the last spot in the B12. Would they really feel sanguine in such a scenario? If I were GT, I wouldn't.

 

[upstater]

Good stuff everyone. I'm off to Boston--have a good one.

 

[JeepCSC]

I understand you think the Big 10 wants to play chicken, but I don't think it happens like that because I don't think the Big 10 wants what it is left holding if it blinks first. Virginia holds the key. It is the key to the Big 10 expanding south, it is the key to VPI ever having wandering eyes to the SEC, it is the key to UNC feeling a significant loss in the ACC and perhaps beginning their rethinking. Georgia Tech may move the ACC into panic mode. Virginia will. The fact Virginia is contiguous is a big bonus.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Someone (Congress?) needs to step in and end this nonsense. Eight conferences, each with 9 teams. Winners to compete in end of season playoff. A nine team conference would mandate eight (4-4) conferences games per year. The other four can and should be intriging OOC matchups. No need to schedule cupcakes since your overall record doesn't get you to the playoffs, your conference record does.

Oh . . . . and conferences to make geographic sense. Period. The Northeast Conference . . . . BC, UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland, Navy, Kentucky, Virginia and West Virginia. The SEC . . . Alabama, Florida, Auburn, FSU, Miami, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi and Mississippi State South Florida. The ACC . . . Virginia Tech, UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, Central Florida, Georgia Tech, Vandy, Clemson and South Carolina. The Big "9" . . . Texas, Texas AM, Oklahoma, OK State, Arkansas, LSU, Texas Tech, Baylor and Missouri. PAC-"9" . . . USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, OSU, Washington, Wash State and San Diego State. BiG "9" . . . Ohio State, Michigan, Pitt, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern and Illinois. Midwest Conference . . . Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Iowa State, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Air Force and Colorado State. Rocky Mountain Conference - BYU, Utah, Boise State, Arizona, Arizona State, Houston, SMU, Nevada and Fresno.

May require a few tweaks here and there, but the concept is clear. May need to add in a couple to teams, and a few conferences required to house 10 teams. You tell ESPN and CBS and others that there are no more conferences. Bid for the playoff action, schedule the major OCCs, or go back to Australian Rules Football, but you are no longer going to screw up college athletics.

 

[djct1999]

Good stuff everyone. I'm off to Boston--have a good one.

Enjoy. Toilet paper the house of BCs president while you are there.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agreed about Tulsa.

The thing about Connecticut is that it is populated in between the cities with many wealthy communities. The Pac-10 rejected Oklahoma. Can you imagine what the B10's attitude is?

I imagine about the same as they felt towards Nebraska. Did you see that one coming? OU has a similar level football team (#7 all time wins) and better basketball, great baseball and much better demographics. I think the B1G looks at three factors (in no particular order). 1. content/brand 2. DMA/ TV markets 3. population/recruiting. Penn State brought all three. Nebraska, mostly just #1. But that allowed the B1G to add two teams with weaker content/brands, but great TV markets last time. I don't think the B1G can ignore #1 in this round. Content is king. Think about what Notre Dame brings? They are all about #1, just like Nebraska. OU football turns on TVs.

 

[whaler11]

I've been waiting to see what Georgia Tech will do. They can't go to the SEC, and the B12 can take 4 better schools than them, so unless they stay in the ACC, the B1G is the only destination.

Tech has to move as soon as it gets that invite, and it can't sit on it, and it can't play footsie with the B1G either. The President and BOT of GT have to have that decision made yesterday, an affirmative response ready in seconds.

Otherwise they can end up like Wake Forest or else the other one or two ACC schools that will join the old Big East.

Thoughts?

What other school is the lynchpin here?

Upstater you didn't say they would be screwed? Just end up like Wake. Um ok.

 

[tzznandrew]

Disagree here.

You're right about Miami. But Duke and NC state are both more prized than GTech. Duke is a household name. The question here is one of landing spots. You can't rank these schools in a vacuum. GTech -- even though I rank them 9th -- gets one of the first invites to the wealthiest conference, B1G, not because it's the prettiest, but because of the fit. NC State doesn't fit there. But if the B1G's spots are taken, where does GT go? Not to the SEC. Despite your ranking of GT over NC State (I don't see it by the way in neither football nor basketball or even market) I say SEC takes NC State before GTech.

So, then, GT is in a fight with Miami, FSU, Clemson and one of VT/NC State for the last spot in the B12. Would they really feel sanguine in such a scenario? If I were GT, I wouldn't.

About Duke/NC State vs. Georgia Tech.

In a vacuum, Georgia Tech is worth more. The SEC has a gentleman's agreement to not pair up any more states than they already do (Alabama/Auburn, Tennessee/Vanderbilt). Here are the schools, or the school pairs remaining where only one can be accepted, that would violate that.

If this agreement is fact:

• Because of Florida, FSU and Miami are out (and pretty much without saying, the BE Florida schools)
• Because of Georgia, Georgia Tech is out
• Because of Kentucky, Louisville is out
• Because of LSU, Tulane is out (hahahaha, just kidding)
• Because of South Carolina, Clemson is out.
• Only one of UNC and NC State can be brought in (I'd bet the SEC would waive the agreement a bit if they needed Duke to get UNC, but that's it)
• Only one of UVa and VT can come in

So, let's imagine this now. I think the SEC and B1G (and, in their dreams, the B12) would want UVa and UNC first. There's a scenario where UNC goes to the SEC--in which case NCState is behind GT. The B1G isn't taking them, while the B1G could take GT, in the same way the B1G isn't likely to take VT.
Whereas GT won't be let into the SEC, but could be into the B1G, NCState won't be let into the B1G, but could be into the SEC.
So then, we think about the B12. It depends on how many schools the B12 decides to take (if the B12 survives). Who is more appealing? I'd say there's little chance, if GT is sitting there, that the B12 takes FSU and Clemson, but skips GT. I think it is possible that they take GT, FSU, Clemson, and NCSTate if all are sitting there, but I think that unlikely.
Look, we're dealing with matters of degree here. Both are likely to be in a home. I think GT is more appealing, ultimately. But I don't think they're some sort of lynchpin. That is UVa. I think if the B1G can get UVa, but no one else in the ACC, they still go for it, either with UConn, or Kansas, or someone else. If they can't get UVa, I don't think they can get UNC at all, so conferences stay.

 

[businesslawyer]

Wait, you want this settled today?

Yesterday would be better if you're asking me.

 

[UConnRock]

Big 10 won't take Georgia Tech until it gets Virginia. GT can say yes, but if Virginia says no, I think it is moot. Georgia Tech is too far of an outlier to take if the Big 10 can get no one else. They aren't the Big XII, throwing together some make-shift conference just because. So Virginia is the main factor I think in all this. Georgia Tech, while a blow, would not kill the ACC in the same way Virginia would. An original member that has strong ties to several ACC schools, in particular UNC and one of the football powers in VPI, Virginia is one of the faces of the ACC. Lose them, and the whole thing becomes undone.

Georgia Tech is just as much of a geographic outlier for the B1G with UVA in the conference. UVA is essentially the same distance from Atlanta as Bloomington, Indiana (510 vs 513 miles) and less then 100 miles farther than Columbus and West Lafayette. Even bringing UNC into the B1G umbrella doesn't help GT much as Atlanta is more than 400 miles from Raleigh. Atlanta being a major travel hub helps with travel so GT wouldn't be in a West Virginia situation.

GT will be a pure deep south, Atlanta-metro reach for the B1G and if that is their intent the B1G could make it happen with or without UVA or UNC. That is the decision that the B1G is facing right now. The B1G can easily remain a predominantly northern conference, or they can make a run at the south. My gut tells me (and I truly hope) that southern pride and culture will keep the ACC schools from jumping to a northern conference. Living in Tennessee has taught me that there is a southern bond in the area that doesn't exist up north and it is a very strong bond.

 

[Point6]

My gut tells me (and I truly hope) that southern pride and culture will keep the ACC schools from jumping to a northern conference. Living in Tennessee has taught me that there is a southern bond in the area that doesn't exist up north and it is a very strong bond.

This is part of our problem with the ACC and college football elite in general. Some of them are still drawing lines based on the civil war and we are Yankees, not in the club.

 

[UConnRock]

This is part of our problem with the ACC and college football elite in general. Some of them are still drawing lines based on the civil war and we are Yankees, not in the club.

Yes, but that line has been crossed from south to north by the ACC with the addition of BC, Pitt and Cuse. So as long as the southern conference is making the decisions it was OK. That line has never been crossed from north to south. No truly southern ACC or SEC team has ever made a move to a northern conference. I don't think UVA, UNC or GT want to be the first.

 

[businesslawyer]

This is part of our problem with the ACC and college football elite in general. Some of them are still drawing lines based on the civil war and we are Yankees, not in the club.

Herbst's fault. If she had been on our her game, she would have made sure to avert the Civil War to prevent this from happening.

 

[ZooCougar]

Herbst's fault. If she had been on our her game, she would have made sure to avert the Civil War to prevent this from happening.

True. But maybe she would have shaped things a year and a half ago and actually built up some capacity to have some sort of advocacy in the media. We literally had no public allies in November. It was a stunning gap on our part.

Supposedly UConn has a more robust PR dept now under Herbst, but they may actually suck at their jobs.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Yes, but that line has been crossed from south to north by the ACC with the addition of BC, Pitt and Cuse. So as long as the southern conference is making the decisions it was OK. That line has never been crossed from north to south. No truly southern ACC or SEC team has ever made a move to a northern conference. I don't think UVA, UNC or GT want to be the first.

Oh wow! Just like the Civil War, with no southern movement into the north. This must be the Gettysburg Phenomena! Back then the Virginians, The Tar Heels and the Georgians all tried to be the first and got their asses kicked. Must still remember.