Geno's Win-Win thoughts in NY Times

[DobbsRover2]

Harvey Araton had a piece in the NY Times today that has Geno turning the complaint about UConn domination on its head and giving Geno's long list of oft cited reasons why it is actually good for the sport in terms of publicity and raising the level of WCBB. As with any of these pieces there are always the trite "other side" views about UConn that Harvey has to sprinkle in, possibly because he may not be following UConn's news too closely this year.

• "The perception of their superiority has only grown, abetted by their two-year-old league, the American Athletic Conference, in which they have produced a steady diet of 50-point blowouts. So Harvey, if UConn is blowing out the top team in the SEC and FF finalist by 25 points, please tell us why you think that games against the rest of the teams in a P5 would be other than mainly 50 point blow outs? Is Alabama going to somehow hold UConn to a 49 point win. And maybe you could do a little homework for your article so you could maybe qualify that South Florida is now a top 20 team in the power indexes and there are a bunch of teams like Tulane, Temple, East Carolina, and Tulsa that can compete very well with the majority of the P5 teams.
• "Pat Summitt, already weary of Auriemma’s acerbic personality, believed he had used less-than- honorable tactics in the recruitment of Maya Moore." Nice of you to spin it all Summitt and UTenn's way, Harvey, and also writing that somehow Holly is so eager to renew a series that Geno's ego stands in the way of. Of course in this superficial gloss there's no mention of Summitt's attack campaign on UConn nor Geno's position about requiring an apology. No, to Harvey it's just that Uconn doesn't need UTenn anymore, so the Vols are shunned. Also, the way that Araton writes this up it is at most vaguely implied that Pat and UTenn alone terminated the series, and really it is slanted more toward two coaches with an an ego decided to end the games because on thought the other dishonest. Nice line of slant there.
  
• Just wondering, but could some programs see a possibility of loosening Connecticut’s stranglehold on the sport by starving its schedule of marquee games, knowing the Huskies are lacking for conference challenges? My, such an original but lame "conspiracy kitty" piece of wondering, Harvey. I assume you have access to the news that teams like Duke are being replaced on the schedules by other maybe better schools that are eager for a challenge plus the limelight? And do you really think that ESPN and the major media networks won't be pushing for an even bigger slew of those marquee games to show since they know UConn is absolute gold? And again, if you had actually watched the games this year, you would have a clue that USF played UConn tougher than USC and ND, so maybe that lack of conference challenge isn't so completely lacking.

 

[Zorro]

Well, they can't limit the last two-four marquee games each season, unless they want to cancel the dance entirely!

 

[Henry]

You limit UCONN's dominance by having teams conspire not to play them? Does that also mean you conspire to keep UCONN out of Power 5 conference's so the women's basketball team is stuck in an underperforming league? I wish people would stop defending Pat Summitt. After we beat them in 1995, for the next ten years she got almost every player she wanted based on her reputation. Over that time, Geno gave the top players an alternative and some liked what he offered including Maya. If a tour was such a big deal, USC should clean up by arranging tours of Disneyland.

 

[Patrick Lilly]

I used to play tennis with Harvey Araton in NYC. He is a good guy, fair and thoughtful and he was one of the first national writers to cover UConn in the 90's. From my perspective he was just trying to cover a topic from a slightly different angle. What I don't understand is why Boneyarders and FaceBook Posters and Tweeters when confronted with beliefs that they differ with find it necessary to make the world into an "us" versus "them" scenario, where 'our' beliefs and thoughts are good and 'their beliefs' are not. Personally, I think Muffet is a great coach, and Pat deserves her accolades and both of those sentiments do not diminish the respect and admiration I have for Geno. I can easily take this analogy into the political world, but I think you get my point.

 

[Drumguy]

The other most likely reason Pat Summitt was so vociferous about UConn is that in early stages of Alzheimer's,anger and frustration are very prevalent. My sister in law has early onset... She used to be urbane, intellectual and very well spoken, Penn grad, Harvard Masters. boy is she one heck of an angry bitch now, physically violent at times. Now that we know what was affecting Summitt we should be able to put aside the Geno is a wise guy excuse.

 

[Alydar]

I used to play tennis with Harvey Araton in NYC. He is a good guy, fair and thoughtful and he was one of the first national writers to cover UConn in the 90's. From my perspective he was just trying to cover a topic from a slightly different angle. What I don't understand is why Boneyarders and FaceBook Posters and Tweeters when confronted with beliefs that they differ with find it necessary to make the world into an "us" versus "them" scenario, where 'our' beliefs and thoughts are good and 'their beliefs' are not. Personally, I think Muffet is a great coach, and Pat deserves her accolades and both of those sentiments do not diminish the respect and admiration I have for Geno. I can easily take this analogy into the political world, but I think you get my point.

I guess my problem with statements like this:

""Pat Summitt, already weary of Auriemma’s acerbic personality, believed he had used less-than- honorable tactics in the recruitment of Maya Moore."

is in it's incompleteness and in the fact that no one in the media has the guts to to go further to where Pat publically accused UConn of cheating without producing, or more importantly being asked by the media, for evidence of the charge. Instead, they jump to today where Auriemma refuses to resume the series, and in doing so paint him as arrogant and petty. If coach K was accused by Calipari of cheating in an interview that got national coverage I can assure you there would be repercussions.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I used to play tennis with Harvey Araton in NYC. He is a good guy, fair and thoughtful and he was one of the first national writers to cover UConn in the 90's. From my perspective he was just trying to cover a topic from a slightly different angle. What I don't understand is why Boneyarders and FaceBook Posters and Tweeters when confronted with beliefs that they differ with find it necessary to make the world into an "us" versus "them" scenario, where 'our' beliefs and thoughts are good and 'their beliefs' are not. Personally, I think Muffet is a great coach, and Pat deserves her accolades and both of those sentiments do not diminish the respect and admiration I have for Geno. I can easily take this analogy into the political world, but I think you get my point.

Um, so you think Pat's version of "us" versus "them" is really something that UConn fans shouldn't have a problem with? That the bogus 2006 list of crap allegations sent to the NCAA is just Pat's beliefs, and that we should be understanding of that? Sure Patrick, if you want to be all understanding about all the stuff, it's your choice, but I hope you aren't going to lecture the rest of us for not sharing your remarkably understanding viewpoint about what happened way back in 2006.

As to Harvey, he is flat out one of the best to ever cover WCBB at least in this area of the country, and if I find points to scold him on it's because I'm disappointed and think he can do a lot better than just be a writer reshoveling the detritus.

As to Pat and the illness excuse, that has been discussed on the BY before, but in 2006 when she leveled the charges after losing out on Maya she was still likely at a pretty high state of functionality as the Vols would go on to win two more NC championships in the following years. We can all feel huge sympathy for what has happened to her, but to claim that the NCAA charges were due to some Alzheimer's effect is certainly something that is open to a huge amount of questions.

 

[cferraro04]

Patrick Harvey may be a good tennis player and a good guy. And, you are right he is entitled to his opinion and he is a columnist and his writings are for public consumption...so, by that very nature there will be those that agree and those that don't. Those that don't have the same right to express their beliefs even if they lack Harvey's prolific use of the verbal dart. I can see that Harvey wasn't malicious in his writing of the article however, I can also see where many would disagree with the premise of some of his claims. No biggee though...all part of the pre-game hype...

 

[DobbsRover2]

I guess my problem with statements like this:

""Pat Summitt, already weary of Auriemma’s acerbic personality, believed he had used less-than- honorable tactics in the recruitment of Maya Moore."

is in it's incompleteness and in the fact that no one in the media has the guts to to go further to where Pat publically accused UConn of cheating without producing, or more importantly, being asked by the media for evidence of the charge. Instead, they jump to today where Auriemma refuses to resume the series, and in doing so paint him as arrogant and petty. If coach K was accused by Calipari of cheating in an interview that got national coverage I can assure you there would be repercussions.

Yes, and it kind of smacks of remarks on a board down south where certain posters are dead sure that they know that Geno was using a certain issue against Pat even though they have no glimmer of evidence, refuse to point to anything other than their gut to back up their allegations, and totally ignore a few other posters on the board who say that Geno also has had the "issue" on his team, so there is simply no logic in the claim.

For the most part the ugly claims are gospel truth down there, and Pat's behavior back then has been sanitized in the media into this view of a coach who rightly had just had enough of Geno and broke the ties that bind. The truth is of course that a lot more happened, and Geno does deserve an apology he will never get.

 

[Patrick Lilly]

Sure Patrick, if you want to be all understanding about all the stuff, it's your choice, but I hope you aren't going to lecture the rest of us for not sharing your remarkably understanding viewpoint about what happened way back in 2006.

DobbsRover2, you are right, it does sound like I am lecturing you and others which I was trying to avoid. so please accept my apology. I have been very frustrated about the recent events in Indiana. I am gay so obviously I strongly dislike how many conservative christians view me and at the same time I am also frustrated about how many of my fellow LGBTQ and our allies say hateful things about those who have differing views from simple statements like calling them moronic to death threats. To me, this 'us' versus 'them' scenario has gotten out of control and a little compassion could go along way. When I read your post I saw it as somewhat analogous to this and got onto my pulpit which wasn't fair to you. My opinion is still the same, but my response to your post was the wrong forum. The BoneYard and Social Media can be messy, which is both a blessing and a curse.

 

[DobbsRover2]

DobbsRover2, you are right, it does sound like I am lecturing you and others which I was trying to avoid. so please accept my apology. I have been very frustrated about the recent events in Indiana. I am gay so obviously I strongly dislike how many conservative christians view me and at the same time I am also frustrated about how many of my fellow LGBTQ and our allies say hateful things about those who have differing views from simple statements like calling them moronic to death threats. To me, this 'us' versus 'them' scenario has gotten out of control and a little compassion could go along way. When I read your post I saw it as somewhat analogous to this and got onto my pulpit which wasn't fair to you. My opinion is still the same, but my response to your post was the wrong forum. The BoneYard and Social Media can be messy, which is both a blessing and a curse.

Agree that things would be greatly improved if we didn't go out of our way to be intolerant, or to find needless bones to pick with the fans of other teams, though clearly the 2006 NCAA complaints action by Pat is something quite different, something relating to actual behavior that many of us find deplorable. And yes, the issue you mention is obviously the one the factors hugely in the divide between UTenn and UConn, but it shouldn't because both coaches and the programs were on the tolerant side of the issue even if some Vol fans choose to view it otherwise with no evidence.

 

[Icebear]

I used to play tennis with Harvey Araton in NYC. He is a good guy, fair and thoughtful and he was one of the first national writers to cover UConn in the 90's. From my perspective he was just trying to cover a topic from a slightly different angle. What I don't understand is why Boneyarders and FaceBook Posters and Tweeters when confronted with beliefs that they differ with find it necessary to make the world into an "us" versus "them" scenario, where 'our' beliefs and thoughts are good and 'their beliefs' are not. Personally, I think Muffet is a great coach, and Pat deserves her accolades and both of those sentiments do not diminish the respect and admiration I have for Geno. I can easily take this analogy into the political world, but I think you get my point.

Point is that there wasn't any different angle. Harry settled for old stories told a hundred times. If Harry wanted a different angle doing some real digging into the TN story could have provided him plenty. The AAC story is just as old. I expect better from Harry, he is usually much better than this and repeating what was basically scuttlebutt and hearsay.

 

[diggerfoot]

There is a middle road to the two positions I see here. It is indeed plausible that Summitt could have been affected by Alzheimer's as early as 2006 ... or earlier. My oldest brother, a once famous mountain climber, has been diagnosed with it for 14 years now (btw, a documentary came out recently about a mountain rescue he led in the sixties).

I did not read the article, but in regards to the points cited by DR2, there is no unique or different angle about it, as others have pointed out. A truly unique angle would be to explore the possible role of Alzheimer's in the bizarre events. Such an article would accomplish at least three things.

1. Shift the onus of questionable behavior from UConn to Tennessee where it belongs (at least if you ask any self-respecting BYer ).

2. Be a compelling story without relying on sensational and/or hearsay tactics to sell the story. It could even be written with compassion and still sell. Imagine that.

3. Contribute to illuminating a larger, societal issue.

 

[Icebear]

There is a middle road to the two positions I see here. It is indeed plausible that Summitt could have been affected by Alzheimer's as early as 2006 ... or earlier. My oldest brother, a once famous mountain climber, has been diagnosed with it for 14 years now (btw, a documentary came out recently about a mountain rescue he led in the sixties).

I did not read the article, but in regards to the points cited by DR2, there is no unique or different angle about it, as others have pointed out. A truly unique angle would be to explore the possible role of Alzheimer's in the bizarre events. Such an article would accomplish at least three things.

1. Shift the onus of questionable behavior from UConn to Tennessee where it belongs (at least if you ask any self-respecting BYer ).

2. Be a compelling story without relying on sensational and/or hearsay tactics to sell the story. It could even be written with compassion and still sell. Imagine that.

3. Contribute to illuminating a larger, societal issue.

Upon the announcement of Pat's illness I posted here that the development of her disease had the possibility of explaining most of the events surrounding the accusations against Geno, Maya's family, the UCONN program and even the Boneyard. So many of the elements in the story fit with many of the characteristics and struggles of Alzheimer's patients.

I read your observations and experiences of your families struggle and appreciate your insights, discoveries, and fight.

 

[DobbsRover2]

There is a middle road to the two positions I see here. It is indeed plausible that Summitt could have been affected by Alzheimer's as early as 2006 ... or earlier. My oldest brother, a once famous mountain climber, has been diagnosed with it for 14 years now (btw, a documentary came out recently about a mountain rescue he led in the sixties).

I did not read the article, but in regards to the points cited by DR2, there is no unique or different angle about it, as others have pointed out. A truly unique angle would be to explore the possible role of Alzheimer's in the bizarre events. Such an article would accomplish at least three things.

1. Shift the onus of questionable behavior from UConn to Tennessee where it belongs (at least if you ask any self-respecting BYer ).

2. Be a compelling story without relying on sensational and/or hearsay tactics to sell the story. It could even be written with compassion and still sell. Imagine that.

3. Contribute to illuminating a larger, societal issue.

To both you guys, as one who has lived very closely through Alzheimer's with parents and other relatives, again I would say there may be a contribution toward judgment calls, but it does a disservice to Pat to say her actions in 2006 were controlled by the disease that made her file the allegations. To direct UTenn's campaign to pull together these allegations is not a snap action point of rage and paranoia, but a long-term direction similar to all the actions she needed to maintain the Vol program and lead it to two more NC titles. To say that the disease was a major part of this decision to launch and carry out this action just seems hard to believe fully 5 1/2 year years before her diagnosis was announced. If you are saying that she has to be given a pass on the attack because she was in the grips of dementia, than you also have to say that she out-coached the rest of coaches in WCBB over the following couple years while sliding further into an already extreme condition. Sorry, top-level basketball programs do not work on autopilot.

It would be interesting if someone posted this question on VolNation as to whether Pat's actions in 2006 against UConn were guided by her Alzheimer's condition. They might have a different take, and for all of us who often have negative views on many posters on VN and the Summitt, they do know Pat and her history way better than UConn fans, even if we feel they are a bit blind in how they interpret some of her actions.

As to a story investigating the effects of Alzheimer's on coaching decisions, that would indeed be a ground-breaking and probably wrenching story to many fans, but after the fact in the Summitt story I'm not sure how much could be recovered even if there were cooperation on that side.

 

[Icebear]

Dobbs my father in law had Alzheimer's and I ran a support group for the families of Alzheimer's patients for 6-8 years. I, too, speak from hard earned experience and I disagree with you about Pat. Early signs were there in 2006 among them the paranoia. It is not accurate to speak of Alzheimer's controlling actions and decisions. It is more it disrupts what a person has known and how the person responds to the loss to those memories. It is a loss of control that threatens them and their ability to manage life in increasingly diverse ways.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Sure, and we can argue all sides of the disease. The big questions are how advanced was Pat into AD in early 2006 and how much did any effects from the disease such as short-term memory loss and lack of attentiveness at that point have in her decision to launch the attack on UConn. And if they were at such an advanced state and she was already losing control, how did they factor in her ability to guide the Vols to two more NC championships, which required an incredible ability to make short term judgment calls and long range planning decisions.

Again, I don't question that there may have been some early signs of AD with Pat in 2006, I just question the supposition that they were the driving force in the decisions and implementation of a 30+ page indictment of UConn. Nothing can be proved either way, but giving her a pass on the 2006 actions by saying her memory was impaired as an excuse while skipping over the tremendous management job and decision making job she was doing in the next few years just doesn't wash with me. But again, maybe the Vol fans would have better insights.

 

[diggerfoot]

"it does a disservice to Pat to say her actions in 2006 were controlled by the disease that made file the allegations."

Given your previous posts, I don't believe that statement is sincere. As for evidence of cognitive dysfunction in the matter, consider one of the allegations, that a ride was provided to a recruit by people that were out of the country at the time. Such a buffoonish charge is too easily dismissed. Had an unproven coach made such a charge, rather than a coach who created one of the most successful sports programs in the country, his/her mental incompetence would have been questioned justifiably by the media. Indeed, that is the question that should have been asked.

Edit: I agree with your statement that we really don't know. The Summitt of 2006 could be similar enough to the Summitt 0f 1996, or may not be. There is a plausible explanation for either case. Based on your posts in general, I just don't believe you are the least bit worried about a "disservice" but, rather, have an emotional predisposition towards one.

 

[CocoHusky]

How did they factor in her ability to guide the Vols to two more NC championships, which required an incredible ability to make short term judgment calls and long range planning decisions.

She had Candace Parker and none one else did. Not much long range planning required while she was in uniform.

 

[DobbsRover2]

She had Candace Parker and none one else did. Not much long range planning required while she was in uniform.

Geno had Maya Moore in 2011 and no one else did. NC guaranteed.

Not sure that anyone who has watched any of the Geno documentaries this year or in the past would post that coaches don't need to coach if they have one or two good players. Do you think if Geno was a tuned-out, mentally impaired, forgetful coach that UConn would be in the FF? Seriously? And this year's team was better to start with than the UTenn teams of 2007-09.

 

[JS]

She had Candace Parker and none one else did. Not much long range planning required while she was in uniform.

Plus a pretty darned good supporting cast.

And UConn, her usual tormenter, was in a down period, and no one else would step up.

Recognizing that I'm talking in a vacuum of knowledge and maybe even good sense, I'll nonetheless record my own view of the Alzheimer's effect ("AE").

1. I don't think AE has to be in control of one's actions to influence them. Having observed dementia (not early onset) in a couple of superannuated females in my family, my sense is that, in its earliest stages and while one is still fully functional, the signs of it can create a loss of confidence, even fear, leading to an equally incipient paranoia.

2. Couple that with an ego that was not oblivious to a serious threat to her reputation as the all-time best, and a dislike of the brash (disrespectful) personality involved. Now you have someone vulnerable -- against what should have been her better judgment -- to the blandishments of Summitteers who had some neat and novel ideas about possible NCAA violations based on fan behavior.

3. That (vacuous as noted) speculation becomes a little less vacuous, to my own vacuous thinking, when it comes to the innuendo campaign ("Ask Geno. He knows [what he did].") that continued long after the NCAA complaint was largely dismissed.

4. In particular the interview in which she said, concerning earlier remarks on NCAA violations, "I was probably thinking about UConn. There's a reason we don't play them you know." That one was so gratuitous -- such a blind leap from the subject of her compliance-challenged buddy Bruce Pearl, and so inexplicably timed -- it had even Michelle V. (who'd always bent over backwards to proffer false equivalencies when assigning blame for the feud) writing a WTF? column.

5. While I entertain the possibility of AE on #2, I actually think it likely by the time of #4, simply because no other explanation for the failing judgment and self-inflicted wound makes much sense.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Um, okay, I guess we can see it in our different ways. The Pearl remarks seem to me like the same old Pat who had a dry kind of humor that didn't always hit the mark and who was passionately defensive of UTenn and the Lady Vols brand. When asked how she would compare Pearl's shenanigans to her previous statements of her previous calls for ethical purity, it doesn't seem to me a big WTF stretch to think she might reflexively fall back on a UConn aspersion to at least try to imply that what goes on at other schools is worse. That's a tactic used by thousands of fans everywhere, and to think they are all demented is hard to believe. In fact, I better get myself checked into long term assistance care.

Again, fans who believe you just assemble a group of good players and dance to an NC title with little effort and a coach whose brain is checked out are fans in search of a clue.

 

[CocoHusky]

Geno had Maya Moore in 2011 and no one else did. NC guaranteed.

Just so we stay on point the subject was Candace Parker and the timing was 2006 not Maya and 2011. I will try and find the quote if necessary but during Parker's recruiting it was said by Geno I believe "Whoever signs her is going to win multiple national championship". In 2006 Paker had not won a single national championship yet. By 2011 Maya had already delivered multiple NC.

 

[UcMiami]

The one thing that I think supports 'early onset' having effected the filing of complaints is the truly shoddy nature of most of the complaints. Pat ran the top women's program in the country and was meticulous in her preparations and one senses she didn't suffer fools lightly so her staff was I suspect very efficient as well. For them to put together the document that included things like Sue and Diana driving Maya to a tournament during a time when they were playing professional games in Russia and could have been fact checked in about two minutes is astonishing to me. And that was just one piece of a ridiculous amount of garbage include in the report. It suggests to me that the driving force behind the complaint was not acting completely rationally. The only complaint that was 'taken seriously' by the NCAA was ESPN trip out of however many pages of drivel. Pat is not a stupid woman, and this one action over a very long public career stands out as 'stupid' and 'slipshod'. It coming not long before her medical diagnosis gives some credence to those who think it may have been the first outward sign of the disease.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Just so we stay on point the subject was Candace Parker and the timing was 2006 not Maya and 2011. I will try and find the quote if necessary but during Parker's recruiting it was said by Geno I believe "Whoever signs her is going to win multiple national championship". In 2006 Paker had not won a single national championship yet. By 2011 Maya had already delivered multiple NC.

But to actually stay on point, you said Pat had Candace so clearly she had nothing to do but put her head down and watch Candace win an NC. Geno also had a player at Candace's level or higher in Maya Moore and despite that in her senior year despite Geno's best efforts in 2011 the Huskies did not win an NC. What does the year have anything to do with your claim that just having the best player means the coach can sit back and take her mind off the game? Are you saying that can only happen in 2008 and 2009, and if so, why are those years special? I hope you're not going to claim that Texas A&M in 2011 was just an invincible foe for all the other teams.