Geno Offers His Rationale & Still POed

[LoTrader]

Playing in the SEC gives them an almost automatic RPI/SOS high enough to get themselves a nice seed. It's been shown repeatedly that it's not how well you play. It's who you play (and who you don't play). Tenn always has had strong athletes on their teams and that's about all you need to beat #'s 20+. Pressing and trapping and hitting the offensive boards win them a lot of games but as soon as the LV's have to face a well-coached and somewhat talented team on a neutral court they lose.

Yes, the horrible RPI. RPI needs to be tossed. I prefer a straight up vote by all the coaches.

 

[Carnac]

The biggest irony here is that Tennessee ended the series to punish UCONN and they thought it would hurt their program as far as recruiting. It ended up backfiring. One can only wonder if Tennessee would have been better off not canceling the series. I am not sure if they will ever again be a top program. Not anytime in the near future as far as I can see.

An excellent observation hoopfan515!!! One that is often overlooked or simply not thought of. Summitt's decision to cancel the series did indeed backfire on her..........BIG time.

I for one think Tennessee would have been much better off not canceling the series. Summitt may have thought that in Geno's mind, the series with Tennessee in some way validated, or gave credibility to his program.

 

[Alydar]

The thing that always bothered me was that Pat, while a ruthless competitor, always accepted defeat graciously. When her illness was reported I suspected that it had a lot to do with her false accusations. I have had dementia in my family and well before it was diagnosed there was a period of time when there were imagined incidents of either theft or persecution. At the time they were at first taken as fact and later shrugged off as part of the aging process. It may have been that Pat imagined it all but the way those around her respected her they took it as the truth. It is sad and tragic except that once her illness became obvious those same people should have realized the situation and explained it to Geno. Instead, they pretended it was all true and fanned the flames throughout the LV fanbase, and today there are still many many LV fans that believe it all without any evidence. Why? because Pat believed it. No evidence. Just lots of innuendo. Ask them and they'll tell you that Geno is guilty and it's up to him to prove otherwise.

And while I'm at it it hasn't helped that the media keeps the lies alive by never going past saying that Geno was accused of cheating by Pat and that the NCAA found that the ESPN visit was illegal. Never do they say that there was no evidence of cheating with the Maya Moore recruitment. They only talk about the ESPN tour which was never the actual issue. Most of them were either friendly with Pat or long-time admirers and were only interested in protecting her legacy, even if it meant allowing the slanderous lies about UConn, Geno & the Moores to hang around this long.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The thing that always bothered me was that Pat, while a ruthless competitor, always accepted defeat graciously. When her illness was reported I suspected that it had a lot to do with her false accusations. I have had dementia in my family and well before it was diagnosed there was a period of time when there were imagined incidents of either theft or persecution. At the time they were at first taken as fact and later shrugged off as part of the aging process. It may have been that Pat imagined it all but the way those around her respected her they took it as the truth. It is sad and tragic except that once her illness became obvious those same people should have realized the situation and explained it to Geno. Instead, they pretended it was all true and fanned the flames throughout the LV fanbase, and today there are still many many LV fans that believe it all without any evidence. Why? because Pat believed it. No evidence. Just lots of innuendo. Ask them and they'll tell you that Geno is guilty and it's up to him to prove otherwise.

And while I'm at it it hasn't helped that the media keeps the lies alive by never going past saying that Geno was accused of cheating by Pat and that the NCAA found that the ESPN visit was illegal. Never do they say that there was no evidence of cheating with the Maya Moore recruitment. They only talk about the ESPN tour which was never the actual issue. Most of them were either friendly with Pat or long-time admirers and were only interested in protecting her legacy, even if it meant allowing the slanderous lies about UConn, Geno & the Moores to hang around this long.

It is unfortunate that the Alsheimers turned Pat into the untouchable Mother Teresa of women's basketball. It is as much a disservice to her as it is to the game. She was real, with strengths and weaknesses, and not some gilded statute.

 

[Bayareahusky]

It is very tough looking at the LV forum and seeing the elephants following the other elephants around in a circle.... It is all support Pat.... "you know what you did"..... and not an independent thought there... or very few... i have read LV forum for years.... and never have seen or heard any facts surface.... a lot of accusations and innuendo.... but where are the facts.... Pat S was a great one... but this chapter stains her legacy.... the whole thing is sad... I hope something good comes out of these games.

 

[Boxerpups4me]

The thing that always bothered me was that Pat, while a ruthless competitor, always accepted defeat graciously. When her illness was reported I suspected that it had a lot to do with her false accusations. I have had dementia in my family and well before it was diagnosed there was a period of time when there were imagined incidents of either theft or persecution. At the time they were at first taken as fact and later shrugged off as part of the aging process. It may have been that Pat imagined it all but the way those around her respected her they took it as the truth. It is sad and tragic except that once her illness became obvious those same people should have realized the situation and explained it to Geno

I think you really nail it here. Dementia not only took away a great lady, person and coach, it also took away one of the greatest rivalries in sports history.

There are shameful people, who i wont name, that are close to the lady vol program who continue to push the hate geno narrative and it just gets old. As a lady vol fan ive learned to accept that fact that uconn passed tennessee up many years ago as the most elite team in wcbb. Some fans just can't let it go unfortunately.

And to the lady vol fans who still think geno somehow cheated to get maya or somehow cheated to get recruits, the ncaa fully investigated the situation and determined that no major violations occurred..end of story, move on with life..

 

[Alydar]

Here's a link to an article by one of the top apologists of the LV program, Maria Cornelius. IMO she passes herself off as a member of the media when in fact she is actually a Tenn booster, little more than an extension of the LV PR dept. But read it and decide for yourself.

Lady Vols Reporter's Notebook

What I glean from her article is that Geno cheated. Her evidence? Pat saying it. Nothing more than that. It happened coincidentally to UConn's signing of Maya Moore. It's ironic that Pat had a problem with another coach's recruiting. The same Pat Summitt who talked players on her Olympic team into leaving their college programs to transfer to Tenn where Pat coached them to her 1st title. Did Pat show any concern for the coach's of those players? Not one iota. Or the high pressure tactics Pat used on 17 year-old Ann Strother to induce her to sign a commitment letter. Dropping a letter of commitment from a miniature blimp into young Strother's lap during a game at TBA with a spotlight on her and folks around her urging her to sign while Rocky Top is being played by the band borders on abusive. But Maria thinks Pat always acted totally ethically.

Maria has turned writing books about Pat into a cottage industry and she needs that mythic portrait maintained to sell her books. Now I have no problem with coaches who use hard sell tactics in recruiting. Their jobs depend on winning and to win you need top talent. And I have no problem with writers painting a Pollyanna portrait of public figures. But I do have a problem with people like Cornelius who puts on blinders to all of Pat's not so nice recruiting methods and then smears another coach based on nothing but innuendo. Remember that this is the same writer who reported a BY poster to the FBI for allegedly committing a felony by posting her copyrighted material and accused that person of being a felon on a public forum. And who, when informed that there was in fact no felony and no violation of any law, refused to apologize to the victim of her false charges.

Do you see the pattern?

 

[Bayareahusky]

Here's a link to an article by one of the top apologists of the LV program, Maria Cornelius. IMO she passes herself off as a member of the media when in fact she is actually a Tenn booster, little more than an extension of the LV PR dept. But read it and decide for yourself.

Lady Vols Reporter's Notebook

What I glean from her article is that Geno cheated. Her evidence? Pat saying it. Nothing more than that. It happened coincidentally to UConn's signing of Maya Moore. It's ironic that Pat had a problem with another coach's recruiting. The same Pat Summitt who talked players on her Olympic team into leaving their college programs to transfer to Tenn where Pat coached them to her 1st title. Did Pat show any concern for the coach's of those players? Not one iota. Or the high pressure tactics Pat used on 17 year-old Ann Strother to induce her to sign a commitment letter. Dropping a letter of commitment from a miniature blimp into young Strother's lap during a game at TBA with a spotlight on her and folks around her urging her to sign while Rocky Top is being played by the band borders on abusive. But Maria thinks Pat always acted totally ethically.

Maria has turned writing books about Pat into a cottage industry and she needs that mythic portrait maintained to sell her books. Now I have no problem with coaches who use hard sell tactics in recruiting. Their jobs depend on winning and to win you need top talent. And I have no problem with writers painting a Pollyanna portrait of public figures. But I do have a problem with people like Cornelius who puts on blinders to all of Pat's not so nice recruiting methods and then smears another coach based on nothing but innuendo. Remember that this is the same writer who reported a BY poster to the FBI for allegedly committing a felony by posting her copyrighted material and accused that person of being a felon on a public forum. And who, when informed that there was in fact no felony and no violation of any law, refused to apologize to the victim of her false charges.

Do you see the pattern?

Very good post... Yes Maria C is forever stuck to Pat without any objectivity..... The famous phrase "you know what you did".... was and is today still enough to bond the LV faithful to her way of thinking blindly.... that Connecticut was not on the "up and up" ... when in reality her own ship was on a downward trajectory..... she had just lost Maya Moore and Elena Della Donne.... and was going to lose Parker from her own program the following year with the outlook of no commensurate talent to fill the void....

Does anyone outside of Tennessee REALLY believe that Pat did not include ALL her bullets in the 37 pages sent to the NCAA to complain about CT and its tactics she thought were illegal? This thing "you know what you did" seems akin to a children's playground move, and not the work of one of the all-time greats..... yes a secondary violation came of it... the famous Maya ESPN tour arrangement.... but what about everything else, Tennessee warriors? More than 10 years later and STILL they are barking about being done wrong.....

And of course, never a mention down there of the said pressure tactics on Strother...... the matching t shirts at the barbeque at Pat's house to entice a recruit.... and the picture of Pat meeting with recruit Meighan Simmons at a game.... against the rules.... when I am sure she well knew the rules.... which earned her program a violation.....

I have no problem with the LV program, and like their fans.... when I meet them online and on the road at games when i travel.... but when i think of this chapter of Conn Tenn history.... a lot of bad blood.... and such an irony that Pat pulled the plug.... and absence of rivalry, added to her great support and endorsed underwriting of Holly to lead the program..... has hurt them greatly....

I am glad this series is being put on to support a good cause.... Pat's cause.... I am all for it.... I just will find it hard to get excited about the dripping nostalgia..... the old clips they will show of Pat and Geno..... I can see those clips on youtube..... I will be watching a basketball game.... with little drama to build on... save the memories of 20 years earlier.... which are not that interesting any longer

 

[Justavisitor]

The downfall of TN had zero to do with any accusations. The downfall coincides with the disease that took Pat's mind and then her life.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The downfall of TN had zero to do with any accusations. The downfall coincides with the disease that took Pat's mind and then her life.

That may be, but there are a lot of people who think the game had passed her by long before any disease process started. Parker bailed her out for a time, as a transcendant player will, but Pat herself was casting about looking to change the Tenn game. Alas, she picked the dullard Warlick to succeed her.

 

[Justavisitor]

That may be, but there are a lot of people who think the game had passed her by long before any disease process started. Parker bailed her out for a time, as a transcendant player will, but Pat herself was casting about looking to change the Tenn game. Alas, she picked the dullard Warlick to succeed her.

Obviously, being a main stay in the final 4 showed the game had not passed her by. Parker lifted a Final 4 contender to a championship contender. It would be like saying the game has passed Geno by now that Stewart is gone and there has been no title or the down years after Taurasi left and how a program lifted itself following those years by adding Maya.

Picking Warlick...do we know for sure it truly went down like that? There were many factors and not everything was under Pat's control.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Obviously, being a main stay in the final 4 showed the game had not passed her by.

Parker graduated and then there was Ball State and it's progeny. No Final Four appearance since 2008 with Warlick continuing the same tired offensive formula. But I do not expect objectivity from a Tenn fan.

 

[Justavisitor]

Parker graduated and then there was Ball State and it's progeny. No Final Four appearance since 2008 with Warlick continuing the same tired offensive formula. But I do not expect objectivity from a Tenn fan.

The game has passed her by comments were from before Parker. After Candace, there was a mass exodus of graduating seniors. They were left with a class full of freshmen. Prior to that same classes' senior year, there was the announcement of the illness. There was also a string of injuries and a couple of E8 appearances. E8 does not signify "game has passed her by." When advancing to the E8 means you can't coach, that would mean there's no competition outside the top 4 teams. That's just not the case.

Keeping to form, you're turning to insults because of a varying opinion. Keeping with facts, the discussion was not about Warlick's success or lack there of. The topic was about Pat and the game passing Pat by.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The topic was about Pat and the game passing Pat by.

And you acknowledged the talk of this before Parker and it was well before. Warlick has not changed the playbook. I don't think it is insulting to deal with facts; however, maybe the facts are insulting to you. That's unfortunate, but that is not on me. I said nothing insulting to you and your resort to that is unfortunate. Go home to the warm confines of the Orange Nation if you need a hug.

 

[Alydar]

The downfall of TN had zero to do with any accusations. The downfall coincides with the disease that took Pat's mind and then her life.

I agree totally.

Obviously, being a main stay in the final 4 showed the game had not passed her by. Parker lifted a Final 4 contender to a championship contender.

Fair comment. Not so much passed her by as the game changed. The NCAA started changing officiating rules in an attempt to encourage skill over brute force. The days of Caine and Johnson body slamming opponents to the floor, standing over them screaming to the cheers of the TBA crowd ended. Physical intimidation became a reason for a technical. Pat recognized that and sought out advise from other coaches. Sadly, her illness prevented her from continuing the process. And now we have Warlick, still trying to win with "Pat's system".

 

[Justavisitor]

I agree totally.



Fair comment. Not so much passed her by as the game changed. The NCAA started changing officiating rules in an attempt to encourage skill over brute force. The days of Caine and Johnson body slamming opponents to the floor, standing over them screaming to the cheers of the TBA crowd ended. Physical intimidation became a reason for a technical. Pat recognized that and sought out advise from other coaches. Sadly, her illness prevented her from continuing the process. And now we have Warlick, still trying to win with "Pat's system".

Brute force... Meh, nothing has really changed in the way players are getting hammered down low. However, there has been alot to clean things up on the perimeter and get more freedom of movement there. This has allowed teams with better shooters and guard play to take over (i.e. Arike O.). Caine has never been physically well enough to depend on brute force. If you recall, a couple of her seasons ended at the hands of Griner and brute force was her game, not offensive skill set. If Johnson's brute force hurt the opponent, shame on them, because that was a very undersized post player. The reality is that Johnson used her quickness, not force, and also did a lot of her defending on the perimeter.

If only the officials knew what a moving screen was? I know of a program that uses several of those in every set to the cheers of a blue crowd. Those screens allow Maya to take those uncontested threes to the tune of screaming cheers from her fans.

 

[dogged1]

Brute force... Meh, nothing has really changed in the way players are getting hammered down low. However, there has been alot to clean things up on the perimeter and get more freedom of movement there. This has allowed teams with better shooters and guard play to take over (i.e. Arike O.). Caine has never been physically well enough to depend on brute force. If you recall, a couple of her seasons ended at the hands of Griner and brute force was her game, not offensive skill set. If Johnson's brute force hurt the opponent, shame on them, because that was a very undersized post player. The reality is that Johnson used her quickness, not force, and also did a lot of her defending on the perimeter.

If only the officials knew what a moving screen was? I know of a program that uses several of those in every set to the cheers of a blue crowd. Those screens allow Maya to take those uncontested threes to the tune of screaming cheers from her fans.

you shoulda quit while you were ahead. One cogent post followed by a snarky descent into trolling.

 

[Alydar]

Brute force... Meh, nothing has really changed in the way players are getting hammered down low. However, there has been alot to clean things up on the perimeter and get more freedom of movement there. This has allowed teams with better shooters and guard play to take over (i.e. Arike O.). Caine has never been physically well enough to depend on brute force. If you recall, a couple of her seasons ended at the hands of Griner and brute force was her game, not offensive skill set. If Johnson's brute force hurt the opponent, shame on them, because that was a very undersized post player. The reality is that Johnson used her quickness, not force, and also did a lot of her defending on the perimeter.

If only the officials knew what a moving screen was? I know of a program that uses several of those in every set to the cheers of a blue crowd. Those screens allow Maya to take those uncontested threes to the tune of screaming cheers from her fans.

I'm talking about style of play and you are complaining about officiating. Two different things. Don't you remember the LV's coming out to start the second half after a Pat tongue lashing. Their opponents would be lying on the court from aggressive contact as the LV's opened a double digit lead in a few minutes. And you must remember those end of game battles under the glass. The LV's would keep getting offensive boards until they scored. That's what I meant by brute force. The LV's were brutal under the glass. That's what Pat meant when she would tell the team that they had to "want it more than the other team".

I personally watched both Caine and Johnson body slam smaller players during a fight for a rebound, after which they straddled the player lying on the court and screamed at them. Both players were T'd up for it. It was all about physical intimidation. Pat preached it and her players responded with it. Tenn wasn't alone using that style, the SEC was notorious for uber physical play. I would see the same thing when Duke played UNC. The refs were told to swallow their whistles. I'm not judging that type of play. It's just not what I enjoy watching.

 

[EricLA]

Maria Cornelius - ridiculous. To continue to spout the drivel that she [Maria] does regarding the "Ask Geno - he knows" and her terrific line "Her reasons (Pat's), which she never publicly stated, were much more significant and involved recruiting shenanigans she could no longer stomach."

What a bunch of complete and total bullsh!t. To have a booster, who pretends to be a reporter, spout that kind of drivel, does the sport (and the Tennessee program) a disservice. And it perpetuates the fantasy that some Tenn fans cling to that Geno somehow did something so egregious that Pat not only couldn't even say it publicly, but also had to cancel the series for the good of humanity.

I got news for you, Maria - you want to be taken seriously by anyone other than the koolaid drinking loonies, then come out and say what you think you "know". Pat engineered a 37 page complaint against UCONN. But wait - you claim there's more???

• Do you believe that Geno used Pat's supposed sexual preference against her in recruiting? UCONN has/had MANY lesbians on the team, some of whom are out, and many more who are not. Find a former recruit who will corroborate.
  
• You think he somehow paid players or their families under the table? Then show some proof and let the NCAA investigate (oh they did and found UCONN committed less violations than Pat did in her career).
  
• You think he gave recruits or their families bonuses, gifts, or other disallowed benefits? Again, do your homework and find some proof.
  
• You think he said horrible, degrading, unforgivable things about Pat or the Tennessee program to recruits? Then do your homework - go out and find a recruit who DIDN'T choose UCONN who will go on the record with all the horrible stuff Geno said/did.
• Got something else? Let it fly and let the chips fall where they may.

The line "Pat told me in a phone conversation in 2008" is total crap. You got that on tape? The Pope told me on the phone that there are 13 gospels, not 4, and that Mary Magdelaine was married to Jesus. Hey I got no proof, but the Pope did tell me during a phone conversation... (for the record, my last comment is totally untrue and a fabrication to make a point).

Some people on our board have wondered why UCONN fans are so amped up about this topic - it wasn't JUST the ridiculous 37 page complaint (that even referenced a Boneyard member making posters for the Super Show) - it's that some of their insane fans, led by a deranged booster who pretends to be a journalist, continues to believe and regurgitate the lies.

My second bit of news for you, Maria - just because you spout the same lies over and over and over and over does NOT make them true. And just because some ignorant fans believe it like the gospel, that doesn't make it OK. It's just sad and pathetic.

 

[triaddukefan]

January 2020 can't get here soon enough

 

[Bayareahusky]

Maria Cornelius - ridiculous. To continue to spout the drivel that she [Maria] does regarding the "Ask Geno - he knows" and her terrific line "Her reasons (Pat's), which she never publicly stated, were much more significant and involved recruiting shenanigans she could no longer stomach."

What a bunch of complete and total bullsh!t. To have a booster, who pretends to be a reporter, spout that kind of drivel, does the sport (and the Tennessee program) a disservice. And it perpetuates the fantasy that some Tenn fans cling to that Geno somehow did something so egregious that Pat not only couldn't even say it publicly, but also had to cancel the series for the good of humanity.

I got news for you, Maria - you want to be taken seriously by anyone other than the koolaid drinking loonies, then come out and say what you think you "know". Pat engineered a 37 page complaint against UCONN. But wait - you claim there's more???

• Do you believe that Geno used Pat's supposed sexual preference against her in recruiting? UCONN has/had MANY lesbians on the team, some of whom are out, and many more who are not. Find a former recruit who will corroborate.
  
• You think he somehow paid players or their families under the table? Then show some proof and let the NCAA investigate (oh they did and found UCONN committed less violations than Pat did in her career).
  
• You think he gave recruits or their families bonuses, gifts, or other disallowed benefits? Again, do your homework and find some proof.
  
• You think he said horrible, degrading, unforgivable things about Pat or the Tennessee program to recruits? Then do your homework - go out and find a recruit who DIDN'T choose UCONN who will go on the record with all the horrible stuff Geno said/did.
• Got something else? Let it fly and let the chips fall where they may.

The line "Pat told me in a phone conversation in 2008" is total crap. You got that on tape? The Pope told me on the phone that there are 13 gospels, not 4, and that Mary Magdelaine was married to Jesus. Hey I got no proof, but the Pope did tell me during a phone conversation... (for the record, my last comment is totally untrue and a fabrication to make a point).

Some people on our board have wondered why UCONN fans are so amped up about this topic - it wasn't JUST the ridiculous 37 page complaint (that even referenced a Boneyard member making posters for the Super Show) - it's that some of their insane fans, led by a deranged booster who pretends to be a journalist, continues to believe and regurgitate the lies.

My second bit of news for you, Maria - just because you spout the same lies over and over and over and over does NOT make them true. And just because some ignorant fans believe it like the gospel, that doesn't make it OK. It's just sad and pathetic.

Good job Eric..... It is so easy to undress the "you know what you did" statement.... it is flimsy standing by itself.... and there is absolutely no way Pat would not have brought her best artillery to the NCAA if she felt she was being wronged..... of course she DID bring the best she had..... and got a secondary violation out of it in the arranged guided ESPN tour for Maya Moore..... same sort of secondary violation Pat herself committed around the same time illegally recruiting Meighan Simmons.....

Pat was an icon in the game, and deserves her name in lights for her part in advancing the game..... but she certainly was not 99 44/100 pure when it came to doing things perfectly as LV nation is convinced she did....... any random check of NCAA violation list will prove this out....

And sad to say, as good as she was in her prime..... toward the end she damaged her program..... not only chasing the mirage she saw as lawless UConn program ("they know what they did") .... but seemingly panicking in the recruiting wars and gathering a stable of best available athletes on Hoopgurlz list rather than building a team.... and the coup de tete was throwing all her weight behind the hiring of Holly, who was a quality support coach but not cut from the same head coaching casting mold as Pat herself.

How many of her later mistakes were due to her illness I don't know, and I do have great sympathy for her on this....

But the residual resentment of course comes from Knoxville fans following each other like (to repeat my earlier) brainless elephants at the circus.... using as evidence only hearsay and innuendo.... In many years of following the TN board, as I do with other schools also (Baylor, ND, etc_).... I never have seen any supporting facts to the complaints of the LV fans.... And to come full circle, in support of Eric's disgust with Maria's claims... this lack of of substantive information while making wild baseless accusations..... is repulsive.

 

[SVCBeercats]

January 2020 can't get here soon enough

Hey! As old as I am; January, 2020 can take its time getting here!

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Randy Edsall is the man who should be upset that the AD is giving into UT and scheduling these games while they’re still on the hook for a football series.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Do Lady Vol fans really think that if Geno and UConn were constantly breaking the rules that the NCAA and all of the other coaches in WCBB would just look the other way? I understand the Lady Vol fans were upset that in the 2000s UConn had established themselves as the new gold standard that did it better and cleaner than their own. Instead of trying to knock UConn down, they should have expended more effort in elevating themselves to meet and exceed the new bar.