Geno and playing time for the reserves

[Coach]

I can understand the concern voiced in the Boneyard regarding the short bench and lack of playing time for the reserves. This is a nice article summarizing Geno's philosophy on playing time. Trust the system. He knows what he is doing.

Geno Auriemma: 'Maybe' UConn Can Become Great Team; Coach Losing Patience With Reserves

 

[Big Mick]

It would be nice to leave some of those thoughts unspoken.

The bigger problem that Geno is papering over is the fact that it is extremely difficult getting Stevens up to speed. Not withstanding the fact that she has terrific individual rebounding and scores lots of points when in the game.

The problem: when it comes to team defense and offense, there are glaring problems.

Defense: very little concept of team defense, beaten off the dribble; tends to foul; easily drawn out of position; poor box-out skills, etc. Result: Opponent Points

Offense: very little concept of team offense, except for give and go. The result is less team movement and ball movement. This is deadly in a team that depends on movement to create open shots, sans setting picks to create shots. Therefore, Geno's pass and move offense has to be set aside when she is on the floor.

Remember in the Texas game that in order to take advantage of her offensive skills, the answer was to give her the ball and let her create for herself. When that doesn't work, the answer is to take her off the floor and go back to the creative pass and move with the starting five.

Proof: played 20 minute in the Texas game where she should have been in the upper 3o's, were her defense and offense at a level approaching that of the starting five.

Until she reaches that level, the chain effect is that it makes it difficult to find proper minutes for Walker.....and we end up with this mythical size, or is it weight, issue.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

 

[dogged1]

It would be nice to leave some of those thoughts unspoken.

The bigger problem that Geno is papering over is the fact that it is extremely difficult getting Stevens up to speed. Not withstanding the fact that she has terrific individual rebounding and scores lots of points when in the game.

The problem: when it comes to team defense and offense, there are glaring problems.

Defense: very little concept of team defense, beaten off the dribble; tends to foul; easily drawn out of position; poor box-out skills, etc. Result: Opponent Points

Offense: very little concept of team offense, except for give and go. The result is less team movement and ball movement. This is deadly in a team that depends on movement to create open shots, sans setting picks to create shots. Therefore, Geno's pass and move offense has to be set aside when she is on the floor.

Remember in the Texas game that in order to take advantage of her offensive skills, the answer was to give her the ball and let her create for herself. When that doesn't work, the answer is to take her off the floor and go back to the creative pass and move with the starting five.

Proof: played 20 minute in the Texas game where she should have been in the upper 3o's, were her defense and offense at a level approaching that of the starting five.

Until she reaches that level, the chain effect is that it makes it difficult to find proper minutes for Walker.....and we end up with this mythical size, or is it weight, issue.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

Your not. D*mn good analysis IMO.

 

[Rayvin56]

I think you are spot on, although I don't think her understanding of the Husky offense is as poor as you do. Very insightful post.

 

[shizam]

It would be nice to leave some of those thoughts unspoken.

The bigger problem that Geno is papering over is the fact that it is extremely difficult getting Stevens up to speed. Not withstanding the fact that she has terrific individual rebounding and scores lots of points when in the game.

The problem: when it comes to team defense and offense, there are glaring problems.

Defense: very little concept of team defense, beaten off the dribble; tends to foul; easily drawn out of position; poor box-out skills, etc. Result: Opponent Points

Offense: very little concept of team offense, except for give and go. The result is less team movement and ball movement. This is deadly in a team that depends on movement to create open shots, sans setting picks to create shots. Therefore, Geno's pass and move offense has to be set aside when she is on the floor.

Remember in the Texas game that in order to take advantage of her offensive skills, the answer was to give her the ball and let her create for herself. When that doesn't work, the answer is to take her off the floor and go back to the creative pass and move with the starting five.

Proof: played 20 minute in the Texas game where she should have been in the upper 3o's, were her defense and offense at a level approaching that of the starting five.

Until she reaches that level, the chain effect is that it makes it difficult to find proper minutes for Walker.....and we end up with this mythical size, or is it weight, issue.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

 

[Big Mick]

I’m amazed the bench players stick around longer than a year. Espinoza-Hunter was dumb until she wasn’t. Go somewhere you can play. Good for you Andi. WBB would be much better if these kids moved on to others schools a year faster to spread the wealth. Geno doesn’t lie or mislead. These kids do it to themselves by staying around too long.

Have to totally disagree.


Here's why:

Geno recruits a certain kind of player. They come in every year. This year it is Walker, Coombs, Gordon, Hunter.

These are highly motivated players and are here for the coaching, the challenge, the results and probably a shot at the Pros.

In most cases "the challenge" is taken head-on and they prosper. Witness how many respond to questions with a response like - once I conquer one challenge, there is another presented....and this way for the four years. The very best want to meet all those challenges, prosper and be remembered forever. Huge reward for high achievers.

Do some come in and are in love with the sound of the program and find that it is not a good fit. Absolutely, Hunter found that to be the case and was smart enough to drop out before playing that eight game.....so as to retain the four years of eligibility. Good for her.

By and large though, it works and to the tune of eleven NC's thus far and counting.

And, long may it continue...

 

[HuskylnSC]

It would be nice to leave some of those thoughts unspoken.

The bigger problem that Geno is papering over is the fact that it is extremely difficult getting Stevens up to speed. Not withstanding the fact that she has terrific individual rebounding and scores lots of points when in the game.

The problem: when it comes to team defense and offense, there are glaring problems.

Defense: very little concept of team defense, beaten off the dribble; tends to foul; easily drawn out of position; poor box-out skills, etc. Result: Opponent Points

Offense: very little concept of team offense, except for give and go. The result is less team movement and ball movement. This is deadly in a team that depends on movement to create open shots, sans setting picks to create shots. Therefore, Geno's pass and move offense has to be set aside when she is on the floor.

Remember in the Texas game that in order to take advantage of her offensive skills, the answer was to give her the ball and let her create for herself. When that doesn't work, the answer is to take her off the floor and go back to the creative pass and move with the starting five.

Proof: played 20 minute in the Texas game where she should have been in the upper 3o's, were her defense and offense at a level approaching that of the starting five.

Until she reaches that level, the chain effect is that it makes it difficult to find proper minutes for Walker.....and we end up with this mythical size, or is it weight, issue.

Tell me where I'm wrong?

I see a couple of points where I disagree.

On the defensive end. Geno plays much more zone with her in the game. I assume to keep his legitimate rim protector close. She appears out of position as she moves from the weak side to block her shot. Shot blockers are usually out of position to rebound the missed shot allowing the offensive rebound and put back that we see. Her box out skills are limited because of her physique. Box outs are much easier done by the smaller player as they are able to plant their hip on the opponents thigh to lock them out. Z is long legged with high hips.

On the offensive side, I think what you are referring to as her creating a shot is within the framework of the offense. The move she makes from the foul line driving to the hoop is the same move you've seen Gabby do and Pheesa do a hundred times. Also, Geno's offense uses many screens but they are not ball screens but back screens set under the basket and away from the ball. Z sets her picks but not on the ball. I agree she can't pass like Dolson, but who can?

And I don't think the use of a post makes it hard to find minutes for a wing. Z's time on the floor has not impact on the other positions.

 

[shizam]

Have to totally disagree.


Here's why:

Geno recruits a certain kind of player. They come in every year. This year it is Walker, Coombs, Gordon, Hunter.

These are highly motivated players and are here for the coaching, the challenge, the results and probably a shot at the Pros.

In most cases "the challenge" is taken head-on and they prosper. Witness how many respond to questions with a response like - once I conquer one challenge, there is another presented....and this way for the four years. The very best want to meet all those challenges, prosper and be remembered forever. Huge reward for high achievers.

Do some come in and are in love with the sound of the program and find that it is not a good fit. Absolutely, Hunter found that to be the case and was smart enough to drop out before playing that eight game.....so as to retain the four years of eligibility. Good for her.

By and large though, it works and to the tune of eleven NC's thus far and counting.

And, long may it continue...

 

[Big Mick]

So we agree that Hunter did the right thing leaving asap.....

Westbrook, Ch. Carter, Onyenwere wouldn’t touch the floor their freshman year at UConn. That would be a shame for WBB

Aaagh shizam, you miss the point.

Follow this sequence:
1) Each year, every coach tries to get as many good players in as possible, depending on roster needs.
2) As practices progress and games are played, the players can be loosely rated from 1 (best), 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., number on roster (least).
3) Coaches take into account what the player can contribute in the run-up to each game and have a rough idea as to the spread of minutes.
4) Against the better teams, the top 6, 7 or 8 will get all the minutes.
5) Against good teams, the rotation can be expanded to 10, 11, 12, etc.
6) Against lesser teams, everyone gets minutes. As we saw last night, this resulted in some ugly stuff

Coaching philosophies:
Some coaches use a squad rotation like Hockey: five on; next five sub in; etc. Everyone is happy, but you won't win many games that way.
Other coaches allocate playing minutes to keep a happy roster. Giving up the chance to blow a team out early, kill runs, etc.
Geno doesn't subscribe to either of these, his aim is to get up by as many as possible as soon as possible.....and, he subs on a need basis.

Since you appear to be a Louisville supporter:
Let's look at Jeff. He offers scholarships to everyone showing early promise, hoping to get a jump on everyone else. He has been getting some good players and will continue to do so....and, he is a good coach. For the first time ever though, Louisville is #2 (to UCONN) in the polls this week.

Looking to the near future:
When UCONN plays Louisville in a few weeks, look for UCONN to blow their doors in to the tune of 25 or more points.

 

[Gabbyfan]

getting back to how to handle the injuries or to manage the team to minimize the negative effect of losing players due to injuries. The most important objective of UCWBB is to win national championships. One of the ingredients toward doing this is to obtain a very high seeding come tournament time....a high (preferably #1) seeding does have the benefit of slightly easier path to the final four (assuming the committee is reasonably even handed when it comes to stacking the regions). A high seeding does not necessarily mean an that an undefeated season is required. What is absolutely necessary is that Uconn have 5 healthy starters and at least Azura ready to go come tournament time. So my opinion is give the injured players time to fully recover with enough time to get back into the swing of things at the end of the year. Whether this means DNP status or limited playing time, I don't think it matters as long as Lou, Gabby and Danger are ready to go in March. I think if all are healthy when the tournament begins, the committee will rank them #1 even if they have lost a game along the way.

 

[shizam]

Aaagh shizam, you miss the point.

Follow this sequence:
1) Each year, every coach tries to get as many good players in as possible, depending on roster needs.
2) As practices progress and games are played, the players can be loosely rated from 1 (best), 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., number on roster (least).
3) Coaches take into account what the player can contribute in the run-up to each game and have a rough idea as to the spread of minutes.
4) Against the better teams, the top 6, 7 or 8 will get all the minutes.
5) Against good teams, the rotation can be expanded to 10, 11, 12, etc.
6) Against lesser teams, everyone gets minutes. As we saw last night, this resulted in some ugly stuff

Coaching philosophies:
Some coaches use a squad rotation like Hockey: five on; next five sub in; etc. Everyone is happy, but you won't win many games that way.
Other coaches allocate playing minutes to keep a happy roster. Giving up the chance to blow a team out early, kill runs, etc.
Geno doesn't subscribe to either of these, his aim is to get up by as many as possible as soon as possible.....and, he subs on a need basis.

Since you appear to be a Louisville supporter:
Let's look at Jeff. He offers scholarships to everyone showing early promise, hoping to get a jump on everyone else. He has been getting some good players and will continue to do so....and, he is a good coach. For the first time ever though, Louisville is #2 (to UCONN) in the polls this week.

Looking to the near future:
When UCONN plays Louisville in a few weeks, look for UCONN to blow their doors in to the tune of 25 or more points.

Very well explained.
I disagree in your UConn vs Cards game prediction. UConn will only win by 18-20 points

 

[DEpup]

I see a couple of points where I disagree.

On the defensive end. Geno plays much more zone with her in the game. I assume to keep his legitimate rim protector close. She appears out of position as she moves from the weak side to block her shot. Shot blockers are usually out of position to rebound the missed shot allowing the offensive rebound and put back that we see. Her box out skills are limited because of her physique. Box outs are much easier done by the smaller player as they are able to plant their hip on the opponents thigh to lock them out. Z is long legged with high hips.

On the offensive side, I think what you are referring to as her creating a shot is within the framework of the offense. The move she makes from the foul line driving to the hoop is the same move you've seen Gabby do and Pheesa do a hundred times. Also, Geno's offense uses many screens but they are not ball screens but back screens set under the basket and away from the ball. Z sets her picks but not on the ball. I agree she can't pass like Dolson, but who can?

And I don't think the use of a post makes it hard to find minutes for a wing. Z's time on the floor has not impact on the other positions.

I would say not all shot blockers are out of position to get the ball. I have two words in my defense: Kiah Stokes. I have never seen a player be able to block and then recover the ball like her.

 

[shizam]

I would say not all shot blockers are out of position to get the ball. I have two words in my defense: Kiah Stokes. I have never seen a player be able to block and then recover the ball like her.

She was a nice surprise her WNBA first year. Looked like a great pick. Hard to find value that late in first round

 

[shizam]

I would say not all shot blockers are out of position to get the ball. I have two words in my defense: Kiah Stokes. I have never seen a player be able to block and then recover the ball like her.

Did anyone see Westbrook swat shots in the Tenn ND game? Effortless timing.

 

[shizam]

getting back to how to handle the injuries or to manage the team to minimize the negative effect of losing players due to injuries. The most important objective of UCWBB is to win national championships. One of the ingredients toward doing this is to obtain a very high seeding come tournament time....a high (preferably #1) seeding does have the benefit of slightly easier path to the final four (assuming the committee is reasonably even handed when it comes to stacking the regions). A high seeding does not necessarily mean an that an undefeated season is required. What is absolutely necessary is that Uconn have 5 healthy starters and at least Azura ready to go come tournament time. So my opinion is give the injured players time to fully recover with enough time to get back into the swing of things at the end of the year. Whether this means DNP status or limited playing time, I don't think it matters as long as Lou, Gabby and Danger are ready to go in March. I think if all are healthy when the tournament begins, the committee will rank them #1 even if they have lost a game along the way.

Please rest Gabby Lou and Danger until after L’ville

 

[dogged1]

Please rest Gabby Lou and Danger until after L’ville

I caught that, you sly card.

 

[donalddoowop]

So we agree that Hunter did the right thing leaving asap. We just disagree that more players should do the same instead of wasting time sitting while they could be contributing elsewhere

Westbrook, Ch. Carter, Onyenwere wouldn’t touch the floor their freshman year at UConn. That would be a shame for WBB

Based on how her freshman season started, Durr would not have either.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I can understand the concern voiced in the Boneyard regarding the short bench and lack of playing time for the reserves. This is a nice article summarizing Geno's philosophy on playing time. Trust the system. He knows what he is doing.

Geno Auriemma: 'Maybe' UConn Can Become Great Team; Coach Losing Patience With Reserves

I never bought in to the "8" rotation some believe is GENO's magic number. Each coach must determine how many he can work with, and it varies by the personality of the players on that team. I too am of the belief that a high level Div 1 coach must prepare early in the year for injuries during the year by getting your personnel prepared to fill open spots. That's as good a reason as any for the JV teams of old.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I would say not all shot blockers are out of position to get the ball. I have two words in my defense: Kiah Stokes. I have never seen a player be able to block and then recover the ball like her.

Most forget she was a fair to better scorer in HS, so the scoring in the WNBA /europe should not surprise us. But like you I think KIAH is the most amazing blocker/recover defender I have ever seen. Now if she could teach AZ that trick--wow, would AZ be more and more extraordinary--she ain't so bad now.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Very well explained.
I disagree in your UConn vs Cards game prediction. UConn will only win by 18-20 points

I'll accept the ONE point win. W is a W is a W--1 or 100--it's a W. No need to damage KLS, Gabby, Danger any further just to prove Uconn can run a team into the dirt. The other side of he coin is--the longer Uconn kids are in Tx or Louisville style games--the greater the possibility of injuries.
MOV is nice for fans to play with--in the W column it means nothing.

 

[Parzival]

Your not. D*mn good analysis IMO.

Look at her stats at
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2017-2018/teamcume.html
Compare hers with others then decide. She's #6 in PT and better than that elsewhere, except 3s shooting.

 

[UcMiami]

Big Mack - really enjoy your posts in this thread. I might quibble or edit some of your points but taken together it is all very solid analysis.

The issue of integration of both freshmen and transfers into the Uconn system is a constant one - neither the defense nor the offense is 'simple' and the level of execution that the coaches and fans expect (as well as their more experienced teammates) is very high. As you say, when the execution of one of five players on the floor is not good the whole thing can look very ugly very quickly. Going back to last year, Dangerfield had one brilliant game against Baylor, a few more good games, and a lot of pretty poor games - at the FF she wasn't really a factor in the loss. But she like so many other freshmen before her has made a huge leap and proved the best thing about freshmen is that they inevitably become sophomores.

 

[uconnfan68]

I would say not all shot blockers are out of position to get the ball. I have two words in my defense: Kiah Stokes. I have never seen a player be able to block and then recover the ball like her.

Best shot blocker and rebounder in the country by senior year, and didn’t start. We so spoiled.

 

[CocoHusky]

Look at her stats at
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2017-2018/teamcume.html
Compare hers with others then decide. She's #6 in PT and better than that elsewhere, except 3s shooting.

There is one alarming stats from this page that should be of concern to every UCONN fan.
UCONN currently has two players (Lexi & Batouly) that roughly half way through the season are averaging fewer minutes per game than Tierney Lawor did in any of her 4 years in a UCONN uniform. Batouly lack of time can be explained by injury. If playing time is truly earned in practice, that would literally mean that Tierney Lawlor (a walkon) played better in practice than Lexi (consensus top 30 recruit) is currently doing.

 

[TitleTown]

Please rest Gabby Lou and Danger until after L’ville

Why? I can see resting Samuelson but Williams and Dangerfield are not injured, they're just banged up. EVERY player in the country is banged up and dealing with soreness, muscle pulls. rolled ankles, bruises, etc. at this point in the season. It is just something they're going to have to work through.