*Note, before you read anything I say about my team, I'd like to point out what Tzz had to say about Ray Allen's greatness*
We'll just disagree on this. His 1996 team played at a fast pace (averaged 82.6 ppg), and yet held opponents to only 64.7 ppg--good for 33rd in the nation...not adjusting for pace. The team could play D, and that meant some of it fell on Ray.
But he averaged 23.4 ppg while shooting 47% from the field, and 46% from 3. Also, add in that he averaged 6.5 rebounds per game (second on the team) and 3.5 apg, despite playing next to Doron Sheffer. He was also second on the team in steals, right behind Sheffer. So he was first or second on the team in all those categories. That season is unreal.
Well, considering Ray shot 47% from the field, and 46% from 3, compared to Shabazz's 43% and 40.5%, and not entirely convinced. He likely would, because he got to the line 238 times compared to Ray's 147...but remember that when you are fouled, it takes away a shot attempt. In all likelihood, they're actual attempts were a little closer (Shabazz averaged about 6 FTs per game, to Ray's 4).
The other thing to keep in mind is that Ray averaged that many rebounds despite having someone on the team average 9.5 rpg. And Ray's job was to score, not to distribute, so it is no surprise that Shabazz averaged more assists, although Ray was second on the team.
Ray is the best player that UConn has produced.
I think Ray had two better college seasons than Shabazz's best--which is no discredit, in my opinion, to Shabazz's greatness. If I'm making a team to play a game, I can't leave off Ray Allen. His team didn't win a title, but that wasn't because of him. He was just unreal in college.
You disagree. I get it. I think Ray had an unbelievable season in 1996. The teams they played against were also, to be fair, better. Players stayed in college longer then, and college basketball was much more talented.
Taken from the all time UConn startling lineup thread, which can be seen here:
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/alltime-uconn-starting-lineup.58643/page-2#post-934773
Now that you know that my opponent considers Ray to be the best player UConn ever produced, lets get to my team and the matchups:
My Team:
Tate George (9.9PPG 5.6APG 51%FG 39%3P 83%FT) Tate is 2nd on the UConn all time assist chart and has a more than respectable 2.33 assist:turnover ratio. He's also a very good shooter that gives me yet another option for floor spacing, and his FT's were a nice selling point, because as we've seen this year, having a team that can knock down their FT's at the end of close games (like most of these figure to be) is absolutely vital. Tate's Role on this team will be that of a steady PG, he doesn't need to be dominant with the ball like Kemba or Bazz, nor does he need to be flashy like Marcus. Considering Ray, Smith, and Daniels can all create for themselves, all he needs to do is handle the ball in half court situations and get it to one of my studs.
Chris Smith (21.2PPG 3.7APG 1.2SPG 41%FG 42%3P 80%FT) Getting Ray in the first round, and then being able to get UConn's leading career scorer in the 2nd round (who at least statistically is basically Ray Jr) was the best possible outcome I could have hoped for. While Ray gives me 2/3 versatility, Smith can be either my starting 2 guard, or at times my lead guard along with Ray. Smith, like Ray is a guy who can score nearly at will, and like Ray, is a guy I can be confident wont wear down throughout a game while playing the frenetic style my team will employ. Unfortunately there aren't a great wealth of in depth stats from the early 90's era which he played, everything I've ever seen/heard/read holds him in pretty solid defensive regard. Smith (and Daniels) is my insurance policy against anyone doubling Ray at any time, I simply have way too many offensive threats on the floor, both creating and shooting, for anyone to be able to overextend on Ray.
Ray Allen (23.4PPG 6.5RPG 3.3APG 1.7SPG 47%FG 46%3P 81%FT) The most talented offensive player in UConn history (Per 40 minutes he holds the highest UConn average ever at 29.8, which coming from a guy who's played 38+ minutes 7 times in his NBA career, and that the 1995-96 Huskies won games by an average margin of 17.9 PPG means he was resting early a lot), and certainly the best shooter in the history of basketball. College Ray could do more than just shoot, he was a great athlete during this time capable of putting the ball on the floor, as well as being 2nd on his team in both rebounds and assists. Unguardable, Ray is going to fill it up against any defender we've ever had (with the possible exception of Moore, who might be able to slow him down
a little).
DeAndre Daniels (13.1PPG 6RPG 1.4BPG 49%FG 41%3P 79%FT) Over the past 2 seasons, when Daniels has been on his game, he was the best player on a team that included Shabazz Napier. Without his epic performances during our latest title run (20-10 against Florida, 27-10 against ISU, 18pts against St Joes) we wouldn't have had the opportunity to celebrate #4 this year. Beyond that, Daniels skill set makes him a great fit for my team, as he gives me both versatility at either the 3-4 and gives me another great shooter to space defenses helping to open up driving lanes for my guard tandem while also making teams struggle to keep up with 3 different guys who can score in bunches from just about anywhere on the floor. He's also one of the few players with the versatility and the size/athletic chops to be able to effectively guard Caron/Rudy from the perimeter. If he drops a monster game, my team becomes unbeatable.
Josh Boone (12.4PPG 8.4RPG 2.9BPG 61%FG 66%FT) Behind Okafor and Thabeet, Boone in 05 was the next best rim protector that Uconn has ever had. Boone offers me size and a defensive presence, without having to sacrifice athleticism or mobility to do so. That last line is one of the main reasons I picked him, I value how my picks will fit together and work in a team setting, and grabbing Boone to serve as my main interior presence allows me to still run the floor and keep a fast pace with this team.
Bench:
Albert Mouring (13.9PPG 3.5RPG 2.3APG 48%3P 84%FT) One of the best 3pt and FT shooters in UConn history. Having another player who can come in situationally either at the end of a close game (if I'm up his FT% helps tremendously, if I'm down his 3P% help tremendously), whenever Ray/Smith need a brief rest, but he also gives me the ability to play Smith at the point for stretches and having an absolutely devastating shooting lineup of Smith Mouring Ray Daniels where the opposing team's only hope of stopping is to get the ball away from my team before half court. Given what was left on the board, Mouring gives me the best complimentary piece to what the philosophy of my team is.
Alex Oriakhi (9.6PPG 8.7RPG 1.6BPG 50%FG 63%FT) On my team to shore up my front line with one of the toughest (remember, this is 2011 Alex), most physically imposing bruisers in UConn history. Oriakhi was really the only true big man we had on the 2011 title team (Chuck Okwandu was legitimately our 2nd best big that year, let that sink in) and he more than held his own against deeper, more experienced front lines erupting for 15pts-17rbd and 18-11 on consecutive nights against Michigan State and Kentucky in the Maui, to a huge 21 rebound showing @Texas and consistent double digit rebound games thereafter. Oriakhi will be my glass eating tough guy off the bench, and there aren't many players in UConn history that can match up with Alex physically or from a toughness standpoint during his 2011 run.
Why I win:
Too much scoring, too much athleticism, too much versatility, opponent has no rim protection.
Perimeter:
Funny how Tzz doesn't believe in pressing with 7 man rosters, because that's the only way this game stays close. In a half court set Kemba or Taliek wouldn't be able to pressure Tate enough to get him to cough the ball up. Tate's job is just to be a steady ball handler in a half court set and get the ball to either Ray or Smith so they can shoot or drive. Kemba is good defensively and Taliek is solid, but with no rim protection to cover them, they would have to sag off on any of my guards to defend against penetration, of course if you sag on Ray or Smith that just gives them the space they need to hit 3's, and since they do so at a high clip it really becomes a no win for Tzz defensively. Do you face up against Smith or Ray and allow them to get by you, where the likes of Rod Sellers aren't going to be agile or athletic enough to defend the rim? Or do you sag off the best shooter in the history of basketball, as well as another guy who hits 3's at a 42% clip?
Defensively, I can rotate Smith and Tate on Kemba, both of whom are solid defenders. If Kemba gets by either of them, I have Boone to protect the rim (4 blocks per 40 in 05), and, given Kemba's greatness, his lack of size did make him susceptible to having his shot blocked inside. Hanson is going to be able to contribute almost nothing, he put up huge stats at 6'5 playing far too much on the interior (FG% and Rebound numbers confirm), and we found his athleticism couldn't cut it against higher level opposition as he failed to even play 1 game in the NBA (for comparison, even KEA played 50 games in the NBA).
I can leave Ray on Rudy, or Switch to Daniels if needed. Rudy wasn't great at penetrating on his own, and is only an average shooter from deep. Daniels is one of the best candidates in UConn history to defend a guy like Rudy (or Caron) because of his size, quickness, and athleticism. On the other end, Rudy has a size advantage, but Ray can easily get by him where, again, Tzz has no rim protection to stop me from penetrating at will. If Rod oversold to help on Ray/Smith penetration then either of them can make an easy dish to Boone for a quick layup/dunk. If Tzz tries defending Ray using Taliek, Ray has the size to shoot over him consistently, and can still drive past him.
Interior:
Inside I have advantages in size, quickness, athleticism, rebounding, rim protection, and overall "toughness" is a wash. His bigs wont be able to consistently score on mine, and my bigs should clean up on the offensive glass.
Daniels will force Corny to play outside his comfort zone and stretch him away from the interior, letting the rest of my team get inside and go to work on poor Rod Sellers. Corny isn't fast enough to rotate back on any penetration, so his only other option would be to sag completely off of Daniels and basically give him wide open shots from the perimeter all game. We've seen over the past 2 seasons that when Daniels is wide open, he hits at a good clip (41% this year), and usually hitting a couple open 3's is what starts one his torrid games where he'd be the best player on the floor on a team that had Shabazz. I don't even need him to have a monster game though, his presence alone will force Tzz's team to leave Sellers alone down low, or if Corny stays, then Daniels gets wide open looks all game.
Boone's quickness and athleticism advantages more than negate anything Sellers offers offensively in the post, Sellers on Boone is a blocked shot or offensive foul waiting to happen. Defensively Boone is a much rangier rebounder than Sellers, meaning he's able to more quickly get to the ball in a variety of places, Sellers needs the ball to come right to him. Boone's quickness also allows him to recover and get into position to contest anything Kemba tries putting up on penetration, and like Daniels his presence alone will affect some of Kemba's decision making in those situations.
Oriakhi is a total banger who I'd play primarily to rest Boone, but could play them both together if desired and/or necessary. Boone has the mobility to play around Oriakhi down low, and while they might congest the interior, that works to my advantage on defense more than hurts me offensively considering my shooting strength.
Overall:
My team has better overall versatility as well, I can bring in Oriakhi to rest Boone and lose nothing beyond shot blocking, while adding offensive rebounding prowess and greater physicality, Mouring can come in to rest Ray/Smith for a couple minutes and allows me to continue to space the floor with another great shooting threat. I can also slide Smith to PG when Tate needs a rest, and he has the ball skills to make passes to all the offensive weapons on the floor. If size proves to be an issue, I can let Tate/Smith rotate in and out at PG, play Ray at the 2, slide Daniels to the 3, and let Oriakhi and Boone clean up the glass and control anything he might try to do offensively either getting inside or if either of his bigs try to post up.
Bottom line, while Tzz is overselling his team's defensive ability some, he does have solid defenders at the 1-3, but he crippled himself by taking 2 shorter, unathletic bigs, whenever any of my perimeter players gets by a defender, he has nothing inside to stop me from finishing. Sellers will both be worn out trying to keep on Boone/Oriakhi while Corny is being pulled out of the paint to guard Daniels and his shooting ability. His perimeter defense wont be able to make up for the lack of any paint presence, especially not against Ray, Smith, Daniels. His team also can't defend me shooting FT's, and 5 of my 7 players shoot over 80%, which means I'll be netting a ton of free points whenever Sellers or Corny (who are both slow footed players) rotate late to try and get in front of any penetration. Ray and Smith are also very good at moving off the ball, and will run their defenders ragged trying to keep up considering nobody will be able to come off any of my other players to help, and if they do, then they're going to pay with my great shooters. I can also try to push the ball offensively as well, as Hanson/Corny/Sellers wouldn't be able to keep up in a fast paced game.
Defensively, Kemba will get his, but Hanson doesn't have the athleticism to run with my guys, and Ray/Daniels can switch off Rudy (who while good, isn't a huge offensive threat) to keep him from getting hot, and my Rim protection will save me some buckets anytime one of his guards gets by mine. Contrary to what Tzz claims, I can (and will) also utilize the press as it works to my athletic advantage, and forces him to bring Taliek in who contributes nothing offensively. I can press with my guards and Daniels and Boone/Oriakhi will beat his bigs down the floor, so he won't have any easy options there. As Tzz also mentioned, Tate/Ray/Smith are all great at intercepting longer passes, and any turnover I get should be easy points.
Tzz has a decent team, and I respect how hard he's trying to argue for it, but he doesn't have the horses to run with mine, and he doesn't have the interior defense to stop me from scoring at will. His perimeter defense is better than mine, but I both have a true rim protector, and
much better perimeter offense. My team is the best scoring/shooting/ft team in the field, and no team without interior defense stands a chance. Also, my team's FT shooting will be a factor in any closely decided matchup, which needs to be taken into consideration. 5 of my 7 shoot 80% or better from the line, we saw this year how important that is.
The case against Hanson/Corny:
Tony Hanson put up big stats in college, but this came in a mid 70's era when UConn was playing in the Yankee conferece. Upon first glance his numbers are impressive (25-10, 50% FG), but anyone who averages 10 rebounds a game has to be near the rim in order to do so, which means 6'5 Tony Hanson made his living on the inside defensively, and between his defensive positioning and his 50% FG, it's likely he played inside on offense as well. Hanson was also the 50th overall selection (back when the draft had 170 picks) in a particularly horrible 1977 NBA draft (Kent Benson was the #1 pick, and Bernard King was probably the best player out of this draft). The New Orleans Jazz were the team that selected him, and were a newly formed expansion team that had only been in existence for 3 years prior. The Jazz were so desperate for talent that year that they actually chose a
female player who
declined to even try out for the team, yet Hanson was cut before even playing 1 game with this newly formed franchise. How would a 6'5 interior player who got cut before ever seeing an NBA court by an expansion team that drafted a female player in the same draft fare against guys like Boone and Oriakhi? You be the judge.
I have slightly more respect for Corny, as he was still a solid player in the Big East. It cannot be denied however, that his best season by far (and the one Tzz is using for this exercise) came pre-Big East. Upon reaching the Big East, Corny's scoring numbers dropped considerably (even if his FG% didn't necessarily), but so did his rebounding numbers. Corny was also considered unathletic even in that era, someone who was scrappy rather than having any great physical traits, and while the 80's were more credible for basketball than the era Tony Hanson played in, it can't be denied that the overall quality of athlete has risen since then. How would an unathletic 6-8, 225 pounder do against Boone or Oriakhi, or more importantly, with Daniels pulling him outside and guys like Ray/Smith abusing Sellers on penetration? You be the judge.
…..sorry it's close, real close but slight edge with Tony H and Corny!!
I have more scoring from the PF, similar scoring (a little more depending on whether you're taking 2005 or 2006) from the center, and much more scoring at the Point. Hanson and Gay can score as well. I don't think I'll have much trouble scoring, especially since your only plus defenders are Daniels and Boone. My guys will be in the lane a lot, and Kemba can get Boone in foul trouble quickly.