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Ollie's reality changed on Wednesday when he's now recruiting for a team in a watered down conference.
Game thread
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I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to muster a write up from that fest, so I'll leave you with a few observations:
1. I wrote directly after the Michigan State game that the frontcourt might be better than expected. Fast forward six games, and I've changed my stance completely. I thought before the season our big men might not be Big East caliber - but after watching them get consistently outplayed by the likes of Quinnipiac and UNH, God, they might be worse than I even thought.
2. I do think they'll play much better next week against N.C. State. It's clear that UConn has made a concerted effort against the 'cupcakes' to run their sets to there fullest extent, involve the big men in the offense, and limit workload on Shabazz and Boatright. Tuesday I think Napier and Boatright will come out gunning from the jump and they'll both take 15+ shots if they have to.
3. The two foul rule **ing sucks! I'm for Ollie replicating Calhoun in every aspect of coaching EXCEPT this one. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. It's illogical, and you're self-inflicting pain on your own team. It angers me to no end. I believe to my death that UConn would have beaten Butler by 20 in the National Championship had Calhoun not stupidly yanked Kemba, Oriakhi, and Lamb in the first half. Today Deandre Daniels was yanked in the first half leaving us with a grand total of zero competent front court players. Doesn't it make sense to play a kid until he picks up his fifth foul? Guess how many fouls Daniels finished the game with? Two. Talk about leaving bullets in your gun.
1. I wrote directly after the Michigan State game that the frontcourt might be better than expected. Fast forward six games, and I've changed my stance completely. I thought before the season our big men might not be Big East caliber - but after watching them get consistently outplayed by the likes of Quinnipiac and UNH, God, they might be worse than I even thought.
2. I do think they'll play much better next week against N.C. State. It's clear that UConn has made a concerted effort against the 'cupcakes' to run their sets to there fullest extent, involve the big men in the offense, and limit workload on Shabazz and Boatright. Tuesday I think Napier and Boatright will come out gunning from the jump and they'll both take 15+ shots if they have to.
3. The two foul rule **ing sucks! I'm for Ollie replicating Calhoun in every aspect of coaching EXCEPT this one. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. It's illogical, and you're self-inflicting pain on your own team. It angers me to no end. I believe to my death that UConn would have beaten Butler by 20 in the National Championship had Calhoun not stupidly yanked Kemba, Oriakhi, and Lamb in the first half. Today Deandre Daniels was yanked in the first half leaving us with a grand total of zero competent front court players. Doesn't it make sense to play a kid until he picks up his fifth foul? Guess how many fouls Daniels finished the game with? Two. Talk about leaving bullets in your gun.
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I'm not a huge fan of the 100% yank with 2 fouls in the first half, but it worked pretty well in the Duke game in 04. To quote Espn...or the AP..."There are mismatches, bad mismatches -- and then there's Emeka Okafor vs. Nick Horvath."
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Guys... I know I harp on the offense but everyone is commenting on the individual play of the players tonight and I blame this on the offense or lack there of. This offense is horrible and I don't want to hear that we aren't good or don't have the players. Yes we don't have 4 NBA players but that is not at all an excuse for the lack of offensive cohesiveness and complete disregard for offensive team fundamentals. This year, more than ever, offensive movement and spacing and TEAM based schemes are vital to success. First off, DD had two turnovers at the top of the key head up to the hoop in a 1v1 situation??? Giffy runs off screens and shoots so well and when he did that we had success he is not good back to the basket or 30 feet from the hoop in an iso. The offense waits forever to get into their sets (if you call them that). There are no secondary sets, ie. when we run through the offensive progression the offense stops. I AM SO SICK of these god damn on the ball screens with no roll, no pop nothing other than an absolute cluster prohibiting our ball handlers (our offense) from finding space and virtually halting the entire Offense. I would rather just run iso's for boat and baz every freaking trip because I think we are better off that way that this putrid game of basketball I have to watch.
I do not care how good or not good you think we are that has nothing to do with running a team offense. Don't tell me how good the offense looked in 2004 - no .
We have two possessions out of Time outs in the 2nd half where we ran a legit set with team movement and purpose including OFF BALL SCREENS.. and in one we have bazz get a great look from 16 feet and wolfe cleaned up the miss.
TO KO
do not start the offense with 15 seconds left - get into a set and get a good shot. allow yourself more time to find a good shot in the offense.
no more on the ball screens unless you clear a side and run a 2 v2 or pick and roll/pop and so on - our guards do not need a screen to get the offense started they can ball handle fine.
OFF BALL SCREENS OMG - BASKETBALL 101.... BOBBY KNIGHT SAYS designate a screen-er every possession where all they do is set off ball screens and go weak side. Wolfe for example.
run some SETS for certain players getting into their comfornt zone.- baseline sets with screens (like we had for bazz last game) this spreads the floor and creates driving lanes and passing lanes
I love KO but this is bad coaching and there is no way around it. don't tell me its because our players - BS. the coaching staff needs t get their together and fast. i
I do not care how good or not good you think we are that has nothing to do with running a team offense. Don't tell me how good the offense looked in 2004 - no .
We have two possessions out of Time outs in the 2nd half where we ran a legit set with team movement and purpose including OFF BALL SCREENS.. and in one we have bazz get a great look from 16 feet and wolfe cleaned up the miss.
TO KO
do not start the offense with 15 seconds left - get into a set and get a good shot. allow yourself more time to find a good shot in the offense.
no more on the ball screens unless you clear a side and run a 2 v2 or pick and roll/pop and so on - our guards do not need a screen to get the offense started they can ball handle fine.
OFF BALL SCREENS OMG - BASKETBALL 101.... BOBBY KNIGHT SAYS designate a screen-er every possession where all they do is set off ball screens and go weak side. Wolfe for example.
run some SETS for certain players getting into their comfornt zone.- baseline sets with screens (like we had for bazz last game) this spreads the floor and creates driving lanes and passing lanes
I love KO but this is bad coaching and there is no way around it. don't tell me its because our players - BS. the coaching staff needs t get their together and fast. i
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Yes that worked out perfect for Calhoun that night. Okafor picked up his second foul before the 15 minute mark. I believe Calhoun has said before that if the game started to get out of hand he would have put Okafor back in. UConn kept the game around 7-10 pts and Calhoun stuck to his rule. Luckily for UConn, Williams fouled out for Duke and thats when we pretty much took over
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Joe D said on the post game the attendance was 8705
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I strongly agree. Benching players in "foul trouble" is inflicting the punishment on yourself that you're hoping to avoid.
If you play a guy who has "foul trouble", there's a chance they foul out in the second half. Let's say if they usually play 36 minutes, there's a chance they only play 30.
If you sit a guy who has "foul trouble", you're guaranteeing to cut into their minutes.
It's like committing suicide to avoid the chance of death.
Fair raises some good points, but that rant was far too long. This team is young, our coach is younger in coaching years, and yet a W was awarded. This is the least talented team we have had in a while, but things could be a lot worse. 10 toes in is another step closer to where we are going.
nelsonmuntz
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+1
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Let's say player X picks up his second foul ten minutes in. There are two potential scenarios from there on out if a coach opts to let him play:
1. Player X finishes the game with less than five fouls, and plays as many minutes as the coach wants him to play.
2. Player X plays Y amount of minutes after picking up his second foul before fouling out.
By taking player X out after his second foul, you're effectively eliminating option one as a possible outcome. Isn't the goal of a head coach to maximize the minutes of his best players? (Duh) You're clearly not doing that.
The counter to that is, "Well, you want your best guys on the floor during crunch time" I would respond by saying a bucket in the first half is just as important as a bucket in the final minutes. That's what logic would dictate, anyway. Obviously you'd rather have your players playing in the final four minutes than the final four mintes of the first half, though, so I'll provide a little bit of leeway on that front. As a compromise, why not continue to play a guy when he picks up two fouls in the first half, then bench him when he picks up his fourth to ensure he plays the final five minutes? I will grant you a play in the final three minutes is more important than a play in the first three minutes, but is a play in the first five minutes of the second half more important than the last five minutes of the first half? I say no.
The two foul rule simply fails to maximize the playing time potential of a player and acts as if Player X fouling out is a foregone conclusion despite years of evidence to the contrary. Sorry for rambling on, but this has always been one of my pet peeves.
1. Player X finishes the game with less than five fouls, and plays as many minutes as the coach wants him to play.
2. Player X plays Y amount of minutes after picking up his second foul before fouling out.
By taking player X out after his second foul, you're effectively eliminating option one as a possible outcome. Isn't the goal of a head coach to maximize the minutes of his best players? (Duh) You're clearly not doing that.
The counter to that is, "Well, you want your best guys on the floor during crunch time" I would respond by saying a bucket in the first half is just as important as a bucket in the final minutes. That's what logic would dictate, anyway. Obviously you'd rather have your players playing in the final four minutes than the final four mintes of the first half, though, so I'll provide a little bit of leeway on that front. As a compromise, why not continue to play a guy when he picks up two fouls in the first half, then bench him when he picks up his fourth to ensure he plays the final five minutes? I will grant you a play in the final three minutes is more important than a play in the first three minutes, but is a play in the first five minutes of the second half more important than the last five minutes of the first half? I say no.
The two foul rule simply fails to maximize the playing time potential of a player and acts as if Player X fouling out is a foregone conclusion despite years of evidence to the contrary. Sorry for rambling on, but this has always been one of my pet peeves.
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I agree Dpross and I am sorry to rant on... but youth and coaching inexperience in my mind would play a roll in a blown lead or a bad turnover with 1 minute left or mental errors and so on. I am talking about team offensive basketball 101. You cant argue that when we ran a set early in our possession (ie out of the time out) we got better shots and were in position for rebounds and were able to rotate back for defense recovery.
There is no excuse for this. I have never coached a d1 game in my life and I guarantee you after 1 week this offense would look much better. I can make it very simple because our coach is soooo inexperienced. - Wolfe and niels set off ball screens every other possession and we call it set and fly. I am telling you we have players who move well off ball screens.. OC, RJ, BAZ, and especially DD work very well away from the ball off screens. i am not asking for an innovative princeton offense. just set some f'in screens and get players moving. by setting an off ball screen you automatically have 3 offensive players(ball handler, screen-er and cutter) movement and thus allow spacing, create mismatches and passing lanes and better shots.
No more excuses.
Waquoit
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Not really, there have been much deader crowds. The crowd was pretty good considering the opponent. I always get a kick out of "fans" that badmouth the real fans that spend money on the program and support the team.
Waquoit
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Yeah, but it didn't work when Caron played Maryland. He sat and Maryland got back in the game. They went on to win the NC.
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The counter argument is not just that you want your best guys in during crunch time, at least not in my opinion.
My belief is that a guy playing with 2 fouls in the first half may often be less effective than the backup at that position (obviously depending on the player and the bench in question).
There may be less aggressiveness offensively, less willingness to fight for 50/50 rebounds or loose balls, and less willingness to provide strong help defense or strip the ball. Additionally, a 2 foul player gives the other team a big red target to go hard after, especially if it's a post player. Lastly, I think (not positive) there tend to be more possessions at the end of games (close ones), meaning you would likely benefit more from a better player on a per-minute basis during crunch time than in the first half.
My belief is that a guy playing with 2 fouls in the first half may often be less effective than the backup at that position (obviously depending on the player and the bench in question).
There may be less aggressiveness offensively, less willingness to fight for 50/50 rebounds or loose balls, and less willingness to provide strong help defense or strip the ball. Additionally, a 2 foul player gives the other team a big red target to go hard after, especially if it's a post player. Lastly, I think (not positive) there tend to be more possessions at the end of games (close ones), meaning you would likely benefit more from a better player on a per-minute basis during crunch time than in the first half.
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I'll take a 50% championship return
Obviously there are pluses and minuses to this strategy. I prefer to start the 2nd half with a player who can still play defense as well as greatly increasing the odds that with the game on the line you don't have a scrub forced into the situation but the guy you depend on to win. In big games, I'd be okay with taking the air out of the ball in the first half if your #1 is on the bench due to fouls so the game doesn't swing too far away.
ctchamps
We are UConn!! 4>1 But 5>>>>1 is even better!
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So you never coached one game and you claim you can out coach a guy with 14 years of NBA experience. Sorry, I don't buy it. I bet you missed the screen that Nolan set when he actually blocked a cutting OC. I'm not kidding, he must not have recognized the difference in uniform colors! Nolan and EW wouldn't be getting minutes on most mid major programs at this stage of their career if ever. TO has some skills but they come and go. DD and NG are inconsistent. I like their play but they are far from BE stars at this stage. But even when they play well, they, and the rest of the team have to compensate for the lack of quality big men!
I like your explanation of running sets and plays. You've done a lot of reading and have a passion for the sport! I just think you are weak in understanding the fundamentals of human competence and incompetence. Some people are physically adept but team uncoordinated. They can't anticipate what their team members or opposing team players are doing at the lightening speed required to do the things you are talking about. There are only four players on this UConn team who I can comfortably say are able to do this: SN, RJE and RB for sure and NG possibly. I'm betting OC gets it before this season is over. I"m not sure about DD and I'm sure TO will struggle. Not much hope for Nolan or EW even if G-d coached them. And there lies the problem. If TO gets in foul trouble forget anything complex from EW or Nolan. Things got really ugly when both DD and TO were out!!
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Looking at the 2 foul yank rule comments.. The only problem i had with it that made me cringe when he took DD out was at that point in the game DeAndre was the most active player on the floor grabbing rebounds and making things happen on offense. After he was taken out things got pretty rough.
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One response.. I said I never coached a D1 game and being a great player or having NBA experience has very little correlation with necessarily being a good coach. More specifically a teaching coach with non pros (NBA coaching is a bit different than college). Some of the best coaches never played in the NBA or NFL and so on. I am sorry if I am not more clear about my general sentiment...
We do not run, in my opinion, a consistent team offense and look lost as a team often in the half court set. I am not concerned with how our players score the ball or not, but the general fundamental offensive design is not there. When it is and all five players look to be on the same page (out of a few time outs) we get great shots and have much more success. Waiting to start the offense with to much dribbling and no movement causes rushed possessions and bad shots.. that's all I am saying. lets run some offense.
and yes I can coach a better offense than I see from the team now nd it has nothing to do with the players.
ctchamps
We are UConn!! 4>1 But 5>>>>1 is even better!
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I enjoy your bb analysis. It is frequently well thought out and informative. I'm uncomfortable with your judgmental tone. It comes off as arrogant. You could be the best coach in the world for all I know, but to state things in the manner you choose as an anonymous poster really puts you in a bad light imo. And I don't believe I'm alone in this thinking. If we knew your real identity and watched your progress in the coaching ranks and you end up being a Coach K or Brad Stevens or a Bobby Knight then I would reconsider. Otherwise you're just another guy with good ideas that fails to execute them. In many ways this is kind of like the team you can't stand watching - you are just standing around.
I disagree with you're premise that failure by players to execute is the result of poor coaching. It can be, but doesn't alway have to be. Sometimes the onus is on the players. Are coaches to blame for accepting players that don't pan out. Certainly although even on this issue I have reservations because scouting has no way of determining if X players skills can work with Y players skills and if all the individual players coming in bring a collective great product. Furthermore a coach often must make a choice to select a player before knowing how all the players he is looking at will choose. Sometimes they are hoping another player they are recruiting will offset a weakness of the first player. But if that second player chooses another school they don't overcome that weakness. In other words recruiting is frequently hit or miss.
If you disagree with me on this last point fine. But certainly there is no argument that can be made that this current group of players are KO players. And for reasons that have been exhausted in other posts next year has been handicapped for KO as well.
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I agree with your points as well and certainly players performance impacts offensive success - of course. And I dont mean to sound arrogant - its more frustration and concern for the team. I think we can do a better job (with current personal) in our set offense by establishing a TEAM offensive stratagy in the half court. Out of time outs yesterday we got into an offensive set early in the shot clock and every time got a good look and had a balanced court. This is true. So there is something to be said for this. right?
ctchamps
We are UConn!! 4>1 But 5>>>>1 is even better!
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Yep! And I'll use that point as an argument that these players are coached well but struggle to retain what coaches have taught them in practice because it hasn't become second nature with them yet!
Just a heads up! I'm coaching you on the way to approach this forum. You got talent. You just need to channel it differently. Everyone gets frustrated with losses or bad play. There are just better and worse ways of expressing our frustrations. Same as there are better and worse ways for player movement, shooting mechanics, boxing out and so forth.
We're all opinionated here. And this forum has opted for a lot of leniency with how members can express themselves. That's a wonderful thing. I don't want to come off looking like I'm censuring you. I'm not.
I'm hoping to help you understand that if you continue to post in the manner you are currently posting there will be a lot of people who will try to marginalize you. And no matter who we are, very few of us are comfortable when popular opinion turns against us.
Stick with suggestions how you would run plays if you were coaching the team without the derogatory remarks that our coaches don't know how to coach or without making yourself out to be smarter than everyone else. Everyone loves ideas. No one loves to be made to grovel in ideas and many of us are uncomfortable when someone is abusive to others, even when that abuse is meant to be caring. Just my suggestions to a fan who has some otherwise good ideas.
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Understood. And I am full on the KO bus I just wish they would make this a point. I am still not sure our starting 5 isn't capable of retaining basic motion sets they learn (hopefully) in practice and running them during a game. . On the other hand, our ft shooting is much better than years passed.
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Vegas has put the odds @ 4/1 that the poster is Brian Fair a high school basketball coach. "Brian" does have a tendency to be a bit hypersensitive but I really enjoyed the intelligent dialogue between you/fleudslipcon (a Boneyard legend in his own right) and the aforementioned "Brian".
ctchamps
We are UConn!! 4>1 But 5>>>>1 is even better!
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That's the beauty of the season. This is the developmental stage. Hopefully there is a upward trend to development. I've seldom seen this. Only those seasons where the players have been playing 2 or 3 years with one another and where there is a sprinkling of superstars, along with very good players and good support players does a season go well from the beginning to end. That was the sophomore KEA and junior RH year (1998-99 season) or the 2004 season.
Otherwise there are a lot of bumps in the road with WTF losses or teams that should be easy to beat staying close. If you have tapes or if you go to the UConn website look at the progress of JL his freshman year! It wasn't always pretty. So expect something similar from DD and OC. Yes DD is a sophomore in grade but last year he hardly played and because he was caring for his sister who had cancer he was significantly distracted.
If you understand human nature the way you understand the dynamics of the game you could end up being a terrific attribute to this forum, or maybe someday, an incredible coach.
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