^ Williams was a solid defender. Clearly not markedly different than your boy Taliek.
College Ray also had the athleticism to stay in front of defenders, hence his steals in a pressing defense.
Also what's up with your only defense of pre Calhoun players reciting stats/accomplishments that we all already know and passed on? You do in depth analysis of every other player and all you say about old players is "averaged x amount of points, good athlete", clearly you don't know anything about any of these older player's skill sets or you'd have more to offer.
Again, we'll disagree on Williams. He was slow footed and got beat frequently. He had the benefit of players like Armstrong (the best rim defender on 2006) and Boone (a very good rim defender in 2006, and the team's best in 2005).
As for Ray, he got those steals not from one-on-one defense in the half-court, but from picking off longer passes in a press. I think those numbers are inflated for that reason, and make him look like a better defender than he was. Specifically Boat's on the ball defense was miles better, but he didn't get as many steals (notice I bring up Boat--who jfuch's brought up). Ray's half court defense was not very good. And while jfuchs has Nadav (a player I think makes the press at least plausible), I don't think you can press in a game of 7 players. Even if you could, Ben Gordon and AJP would beat it. They are two confident ball handlers, one of whom led an injured team to the Final Four, and helped guide a team to the title. I think they beat a press, especially one with Marcus Williams at the helm.
As for the older players, is there to say besides stats? It's not like there's a ton of game tape available. So I look at size relative to position, the era they play in, etc. You convince people with that, when possible, more than with personal anecdotes. Hence jfuchs use of stats when talking about Ray's steals per game. It's a good stat that makes people think. Notice he, rightly, didn't make much about the fact that it was in a press. Again, good call.
Specifically, I don't I have to say much to justify McKay. Man played in the Big East. It was a smaller league, but he still made an all-league team all three times he was in that league. It's not like 1982 was the stone age. The 1982 first team had John Bagley, Corny Thompson, Sleepy Floyd, Dan Callandrillo, and David Russell. Mike McKay was on the second team with Patrick Ewing, Chris Mullen, Erich Santifer, and Stewart Granger.
Tony Hanson won an NCAA tournament game, was on the all-regional team, and his career overlapped with a number of other great players. He was a 6'5" shooting guard who shot over 50% from the field. There was no 3 point line, but you don't average that amount without being a respected shooter. I think he translates just fine, since within two years we have a player like McKay coming in and performing very well in the Big East, you think not. I thought he translated well before I drafted him, but obviously it's in my best interest that people agree with me. And it's in your best interest that they don't.
Art Quimby was a 6'5" and played in the 1950s. You can see my thoughts on the state of the game in numerous other threads. The 1950s in college athletics is lightyears behind what we see now. I think Quimby was a fine athlete, just like Walt Dropo was just a few years before (and Dropo won AL Rookie of the Year in 1950). I just don't think his size or skills will translate well. 6'5" centers gets you killed against jfuchs' lineup. Same thoughts about the 6'6" Kimball (he's variously listed at 6'6" and 6'8")--although he has a
much better case, since I'm willing to give what I think are borderline cases the benefit of the doubt if they played in the league, which Kimball did. I don't think that is a contradiction with my Tony Hanson stat, since, as is very obvious, sometimes great college players can't make it in the league.
