Gabby As A Forward -- Take 2

[JoePgh]

UConn has now played three teams with some serious height: Stanford, Duke, and South Carolina. Gabby Williams had zero minutes in the first of those games, and minimal minutes in the latter two. Given how well she has played in recent games, it is surprising (on first thought) that Geno didn't even put her into the South Carolina game until the second half when UConn had a big lead. Once she was in, she didn't get very much done.

Doesn't this suggest that the idea of making her a forward really needs to be reconsidered? She is clearly a gifted athlete, but those gifts don't allow her to score or defend effectively against opponents in the 6-3 to 6-5 height range. She didn't even seem to be rebounding effectively last night, despite her leaping ability.

I think she has all necessary guard skills except (at this point) outside shooting. That is a big one, but she is capable of improving that if she puts the same dedication into that as she has already put into acquiring post moves.

With the set of freshmen who are coming in next year, she really isn't needed in the front court, and she won't be as effective there as those 2015-16 freshmen should be.

I think the coaches will recognize this and put her on a "guard track" over the summer. She will be a major contributor in that role.

 

[CocoHusky]

Joe,
I think Gabby as a forward should be and will be reconsidered next year. Reconsidered does not mean she will never be a forward again. It depends on the team needs and her performance in that position. Take Morgan Tuck as an example, as a freshman she was the primary backup to Dolson in the post at a time when Stokes & Buck were both on the team. Morgan was best choice to play the role and this year she is one of two starting post players-I am deliberately not using the word Center in reference to Morgan because that easily confuses some people.
This year the team needed a 4th post player and Gabby although undersized was best equipped.
Next year might only be slightly different for Gabby. I’m projecting 4 players (Boykin, Tuck, Butler, & Stewart) to be primary post players. If you are projecting Gabby as a wing (3) that position will be the most crowded on the team 4 players (Samuelson, Ekmark, Collier & Williams) competing for 1 spot. Can Gabby play the SG (2) or PG (1)? If she can, there is less competition, 3 players (Jefferson, Nurse & Chong) for 2 positions.
Gabby can compete and start in the post and keep UCONN in national championship contention- see Nina Davis of Baylor. The design of the UCONN offense is superior enough to overcome any team even with multiple 6’4-5” players. That design allows the 6’4-5” player to be isolated in the post. With the floor properly spaced with shooters the larger defender is left to guard the quicker player from top of the key to the basket. Size is negated by quickness- Gabby has quickness. SC blocked exactly 1 shot in the game last night. They did out rebound UCONN by 3 and pulled down 21 offensive rebounds so my take away was SC’s size was largely negated.

 

[j66kicker]

UConn has now played three teams with some serious height: Stanford, Duke, and South Carolina. Gabby Williams had zero minutes in the first of those games, and minimal minutes in the latter two. Given how well she has played in recent games, it is surprising (on first thought) that Geno didn't even put her into the South Carolina game until the second half when UConn had a big lead. Once she was in, she didn't get very much done.

Doesn't this suggest that the idea of making her a forward really needs to be reconsidered? She is clearly a gifted athlete, but those gifts don't allow her to score or defend effectively against opponents in the 6-3 to 6-5 height range. She didn't even seem to be rebounding effectively last night, despite her leaping ability.

I think she has all necessary guard skills except (at this point) outside shooting. That is a big one, but she is capable of improving that if she puts the same dedication into that as she has already put into acquiring post moves.

With the set of freshmen who are coming in next year, she really isn't needed in the front court, and she won't be as effective there as those 2015-16 freshmen should be.

I think the coaches will recognize this and put her on a "guard track" over the summer. She will be a major contributor in that role.

Agree. So she needs to get in the gym this summer and take 1000 shots a day

 

[mrmojack]

Once Gabby develops an outside shot she will be able to play multiple positions.
She will be able to post up and play outside. She needs to work on ball handling
and outside shooting. I think you will see a very different player next year. She
has plenty of potential. Don't forget, she missed 1/2 of her junior and senior
years in HS and hasn't really played a lot of ball. Maybe she will play USA
basketball this summer.

 

[Suggie]

Shame of it is she lost development time at the 2. As I was told many times as a previous poster over the past year,and deleated as a poster.I know nothing. Given more time from the start at UCONN her stats ,developement would be way more outstanding. Time lost can never be regained,life as it is.

 

[JoePgh]

Shame of it is she lost development time at the 2. As I was told many times as a previous poster over the past year,and deleated as a poster.I know nothing. Given more time from the start at UCONN her stats ,developement would be way more outstanding. Time lost can never be regained,life as it is.

This is waaaayy too melodramatic:

1. What Gabby has learned about posting up defenders, penetrating, and positioning herself for rebounds will serve her well as a guard, if that is her future.
2. In any case, the needs of the team come first. This year, they needed a fourth forward; next year (and for a while after that as things are looking) they will need more numbers in the backcourt.
3. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that she is unhappy with the way her freshman year at UConn has gone. Without a reliable outside shot, it is doubtful how productive she could have been (or how many minutes she could have seen) as a guard this year.

Certainly she understood before she got here that the team's success was a priority over individual goals and skills, even though the two are usually (but not always) in line with each other.

 

[xHunt3r]

Clearly Gabby is a gifted player. Early on she showed aptitude for making plays around the basket. For this year, the coaching staff thought she could provide some backup for the thin front line. I think long term they actually see her playing at the 3 spot (3rd guard/small forward) where her guard skills will come into play to go along with her natural skills around the basket to make buckets.

 

[CocoHusky]

Shame of it is she lost development time at the 2. Given more time from the start at UCONN her stats ,developement would be way more outstanding. Time lost can never be regained,life as it is.

Suggie,
I disagree with you. If gabby had not accepted the challenge ( given to her by the coaches) to play in the post this year she would not have accumulated half the minutes she has so far. Minutes= development regardless of position. 1/2 the minutes would mean half the development. To play the SG position in UCONN offense requires that you are a capable outside shooter and secondary ball handler.
Gabby may develop those skills in time but Gabby's skills are not at the UCONN standard yet. If evaluated against just those skills ( shooting and secondard ball handling) Gabby is behind ( Ekmark, Chong, Nurse, & KML).

 

[EricSD]

I agree with pretty much everyone except Suggie. Just look at Gabby's FT shooting - nice form, nice arc, but shoots a low% and clanks it off the back rim more often than not. Does anyone thing she ISN'T working on her FT shooting? If it's not come along so far this year, there's nothing to suggest her mid range or deep game would be any better, or more improved. And her ball handling when she's NOT driving to the basket is not great either...

I do agree that if she practiced with the guards, she'd be working on guard skills more, but the flip side is she'd be playing a lot less and maybe not developing as much anyway. I think she's perfect right where she is. She can spend the summer working on her guard skills - ball handling, passing, shooting, and try to expand her game. I'd like to see her as a wing, not a guard per se. I think it takes more than a year to develop the type of ball handling, passing, and shooting skills a player like Saniya has.

But I do think a summer of working on the rest of her guard skills will only make her better no matter where she plays next year. And by the way, how many teams will UCONN face who are as big as SC? Not ND, Baylor, Maryland, Tennessee, or any of the other top 10 teams (maybe Oregon State - not sure how big as a team they are). Point is she was not effective around the basket against SC. There are VERY few teams like them...

 

[ndmb]

I think she has all necessary guard skills except (at this point) outside shooting. That is a big one, but she is capable of improving that if she puts the same dedication into that as she has already put into acquiring post moves.

Not necessarily. Shaq wasn't a bad free throw shooter because of lack of practice. It is unusual for a player to dramatically improve her shot at the college level; we tend to remember the Kelly Faris's and forget the others. Effort and time are required, but not necessarily sufficient, as some players will never become good shooters. She is coming off a long gap from playing basketball, but her shot is pretty ugly right now, and she's shooting 45% from the FT line.

Gabby's got a pretty unusual skillset here; if she develops a more reliable outside shot, she'll be an All-American, but don't think that she needs to to become a major contributor against top-competition. With more strength, consistency, and experience in the post, she would have been useful against both Stanford and Duke, she's just not quite there yet.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Not necessarily. Shaq wasn't a bad free throw shooter because of lack of practice. It is unusual for a player to dramatically improve her shot at the college level; we tend to remember the Kelly Faris's and forget the others. Effort and time are required, but not necessarily sufficient, as some players will never become good shooters. She is coming off a long gap from playing basketball, but her shot is pretty ugly right now, and she's shooting 45% from the FT line.

Gabby's got a pretty unusual skillset here; if she develops a more reliable outside shot, she'll be an All-American, but don't think that she needs to to become a major contributor against top-competition. With more strength, consistency, and experience in the post, she would have been useful against both Stanford and Duke, she's just not quite there yet.

That's simply not true. Just check the records for the old UConn players and you will see many who developed quite a bit in college. Sales? From 58% as a frosh to 78% as a senior. That's learning how to shoot FTs. Rizzotti, Bascom, Duran, Schuie, Lishness, Rita and Tahirah Williams, Gedney, Bam Bam, and Kalana all had huge jumps, and even a tremendous FT shooter like KML has made significant improvement while in college. Many other players had more modest gains after their frshman years. Gabby should be able to work on the FT touch and boost her average over the 70% range once she takes a little off the shot.

As to her rebounding and post presence this year, much of her time on the court this year has been with the reserves when she's either the top "big" or part of a nice working tandem with Kiah. Gabby picks up a lot of boards that are outside of Kiah's range and that she can outjump the opponents for. Next year the situation will likely be different as she gets bigger players in the second unit where she will split her time after playing with the starters in whatever role that is needed in the first half.

 

[Shenandoah]

Not necessarily. Shaq wasn't a bad free throw shooter because of lack of practice. It is unusual for a player to dramatically improve her shot at the college level; we tend to remember the Kelly Faris's and forget the others. Effort and time are required, but not necessarily sufficient, as some players will never become good shooters. She is coming off a long gap from playing basketball, but her shot is pretty ugly right now, and she's shooting 45% from the FT line.

Up from about 23% earlier in the season. She also shot 95% from the free throw line in high school, so the eye is there.

 

[watanabe]

I saw a UConn team of bench players that still managed to play SC to a stand still after the starters were out. Gabby was a part of that effort. It was amazing to see SC kept from creeping the score back up. Whether or not you think Gabby was ineffective, the "second" UConn group of players didn't get scored on either. I was very impressed.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Up from about 23% earlier in the season. She also shot 95% from the free throw line in high school, so the eye is there.

She shot 67% in the recorded games of HS. That incredible 95% figure comes from her father's remark, and there's certainly no proof of it anywhere on the net. As noted elsewhere, no college player is shooting 95% this year or in most other years, so I would take the statement with a couple blocks of salt.

 

[Bill In Georgia]

That's simply not true. Just check the records for the old UConn players and you will see many who developed quite a bit in college. Sales? From 58% as a frosh to 78% as a senior. That's learning how to shoot FTs. Rizzotti, Bascom, Duran, Schuie, Lishness, Rita and Tahirah Williams, Gedney, Bam Bam, and Kalana all had huge jumps, and even a tremendous FT shooter like KML has made significant improvement while in college. Many other players had more modest gains after their frshman years. Gabby should be able to work on the FT touch and boost her average over the 70% range once she takes a little off the shot.

As to her rebounding and post presence this year, much of her time on the court this year has been with the reserves when she's either the top "big" or part of a nice working tandem with Kiah. Gabby picks up a lot of boards that are outside of Kiah's range and that she can outjump the opponents for. Next year the situation will likely be different as she gets bigger players in the second unit where she will split her time after playing with the starters in whatever role that is needed in the first half.

Tina Charles, if I remember right ..I wondered "why" in her Frosh year, ... on Gabby ..good missing her last two HS years .. didn't learn bad traits, but this is a girl with
heart, a superior vertical jump and has AA written all over her...she will be handled correctly, it's GA' way

 

[ndmb]

That's simply not true. Just check the records for the old UConn players and you will see many who developed quite a bit in college. Sales? From 58% as a frosh to 78% as a senior. That's learning how to shoot FTs. Rizzotti, Bascom, Duran, Schuie, Lishness, Rita and Tahirah Williams, Gedney, Bam Bam, and Kalana all had huge jumps, and even a tremendous FT shooter like KML has made significant improvement while in college. Many other players had more modest gains after their frshman years. Gabby should be able to work on the FT touch and boost her average over the 70% range once she takes a little off the shot.

As to her rebounding and post presence this year, much of her time on the court this year has been with the reserves when she's either the top "big" or part of a nice working tandem with Kiah. Gabby picks up a lot of boards that are outside of Kiah's range and that she can outjump the opponents for. Next year the situation will likely be different as she gets bigger players in the second unit where she will split her time after playing with the starters in whatever role that is needed in the first half.

I just went through all of the data up on the UConn website (going back to 2001, excluding 2002). During that time frame, we had 16 players who A) completed both a freshman and a senior season at UConn during that time and B) had enough free throw attempts in each year (I set the bar at 20), to get a realistic understanding of their free throw shooting ability. A majority (10/16) had virtually no improvement or even regressed (<2% bump from freshman to senior year). 75% had moderate improvement or less (<5%). But the statement I made was that it was unusual for players to have a dramatic improvement. How many players out of that group had even half of the 26% improvement that you're expecting from Gabby? 0.

Is it possible for Gabby to become a 70%+ free throw shooter? Sure. Would it be unusual if she did? Uh, yeah.

 

[hoophuskee]

UConn has now played three teams with some serious height: Stanford, Duke, and South Carolina. Gabby Williams had zero minutes in the first of those games, and minimal minutes in the latter two. Given how well she has played in recent games, it is surprising (on first thought) that Geno didn't even put her into the South Carolina game until the second half when UConn had a big lead. Once she was in, she didn't get very much done.

(1) Doesn't this suggest that the idea of making her a forward really needs to be reconsidered? She is clearly a gifted athlete, (2) but those gifts don't allow her to score or defend effectively against opponents in the 6-3 to 6-5 height range. She didn't even seem to be rebounding effectively last night, despite her leaping ability.

(3) I think she has all necessary guard skills except (at this point) outside shooting. That is a big one, but she is capable of improving that if she puts the same dedication into that as she has already put into acquiring post moves.

With the set of freshmen who are coming in next year, (4) she really isn't needed in the front court, and she won't be as effective there as those 2015-16 freshmen should be.

I think the coaches will recognize this and put her on a "guard track" over the summer. She will be a major contributor in that role.

1-- Absolutely not. She's a freshman. The great Al McGuire used to say "the best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores."

2--- I don't agree about the scoring part IF she can develop a mid-range jump shot. IF she can develop a mid-range jump shot how many pf's can guard her? However if she can't develop a jump shot - then what's the point of playing her at guard? SO if next year she comes in and her shot isn't much better, why play her at guard?

3-- But if you can't shoot from the outside - and you are a premiere top 3 team in America year n and year out - why would we move her to guard? We crush the teams that don't have outside shooting. So we want to be like everyone else?

4a--- Actually I think she is in an absolute "sweet-spot" for her development as forward then to a guard by her sr year. She has the perfect teammate to compliment her skills the next few years while she compliments that player's - and her name is Katie Lou Samuelson. From what i've read Katie Lou is a shooter in the mold of KML. Unlike KML she has size -- and just the one time I saw her she didn't seem that quick. With her long range shooting - she is born to be a "floor opener." That would be perfect for Gabby- giving her room to use her quickness. All Gabby needs to do is learn hwo ot hit outside shots. Do you really think next year "presto-magic" she is all of a sudden going to be a knockdown shooter? No- but she can get "better." And next year we can win without either being great thus they have a super opportunity to grow. Then by Gabby's jr year and KLS in her soph year they can be a tremendous tandem.

4b-- And as for defense- if they were o play on the floor together- who would you have guard quick slashing sf? Would it be Gabby or Katie Lou?

4c-- And of course there will be some teams that play small like Louisville has (not sure about this year) and send their pf out to the perimeter.

IMO if Gabby can't shoot - she can't play guard at UCONN unless she is playing post on offense and playing a guard-like offensive player on defense. THIS FITS PERFECTLY WITH KLS imo.

 

[Bestiarius]

Remember Gabby is a freshman in a new position after not playing for 2 years. I thing Geno was smart not to throw her into the South Carolina game too early. Too much pressure for her development level. Regarding the future, I'm sure Geno will find a way to use her many skills to best advantage even if it means developing a new offensive position. Let's call it playing the 15, a combination of 1,2,3,4, and 5= 15. Coincidence? I think not!

 

[Huskies Rule]

In time, with the appropriate hard work, I see absolutely no reason why Gabby Williams cannot become an even better version of Baylor's Nina Davis. And that would be great because Davis is a fantastic player, an All-American. Davis is also a decidedly undersized frontcourt player who is a great rebounder, scores with tons of putbacks, is fearless among the trees, a soso ball-handler, and at best has a mediocre mid range/outside shot. Sounds familiar. They are alike in so many ways. Both are 5'11, and both have excellent verticals, though I would wager Gabby's is even better. And Davis does her thing with a wiry thin-frame, clearly lacking Gabby's physicality. Gabby can become a Nina Davis, or even better. And that would give UConn a great piece moving forward.
Gigantic frontcourt players are very often overrated and overvalued. See Duke. See SC.

 

[watanabe]

Gotta score in the paint, otherwise she's just another body out there. We need weapons. Can't help but like her and hope she grows into a strong role.