Fun With Lineup Stats | The Boneyard

Fun With Lineup Stats

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We're a little over halfway through the season and so some of the lineup data has begun to settle a bit. Still not very predictive at this point, but it's descriptive (what happened so far but not necessarily what will happen in the future... keep that in mind please when interpreting the data).

Anyone want to guess what our best 5 man lineup has been so far this season (garbage time and sub 200 competition filtered out, minimum of 20 possessions played)?

If you guessed Cole, Jackson, Martin, Polley, Whaley, you're right! A pretty dominant +59.7 net rating (per 100 pos). This lineup played mostly in the Providence game and then in the Marquette game next as well (so game with Sanogo out and minutes restriction). The same lineup with Sanogo in for Whaley is close behind (+52.1) and has been our best offensive lineup. It was mostly used in Mich St, Seton Hall, and home Butler games (with a few poss here and there in other games).

The current starting lineup (so Sanogo in for Polley, +43.7) is next, but it has way more possessions used (4x more), so when you factor in some regression from the top 2 lineups, it's probably fair to say that it has been our best lineup statistically as well as best in Hurley's eye test. It's also been our best "luck-adjusted" lineup, but only rates as the 68th best lineup from the top 150 teams (with cupcakes in for that one). Filtering out lineups with less than 100 possession makes it the 26th best lineup (16th when considering t100 games only).

Our best defensive lineup has been Cole, Gaffney, Jackson, Polley, and Akok at 0.71 ppp, (with the starting lineup right there too at 0.73). This was used primarily against Providence and Marquette, but was kinda bad on offense, so despite being dominant on defense is in the middle of the pack for our lineups overall.

Our most used bad lineup has been Cole, Jackson, Martin, Akok, and Sanogo. If you said, hey, that's basically the starting lineup but with Akok in for Whaley, you're right! It's been used throughout the year when Sanogo was healthy, and especially in Mich St game when Whaley was out. It's been mediocre on both offense and defense (+2.6 net rating), mostly because we've shot 14% from 3 with the lineup and taken the least amount of 3's of any lineup, despite 4 shooters on the court. This is a heavy Sanogo dump-in lineup: he's got over 40% usage with this lineup. However, his efficiency has been better with this lineup and his turnovers low, so his shot selection is not the reason the lineup has been bad. None of Cole, Martin, or Jackson have made a 3 in the 62 possessions of this lineup (and obviously not Sanogo). Only Akok made a couple. Martin also specifically has had trouble finishing in this lineup compared to the rest of his minutes.

Our absolute worst lineup has been Cole, Hawkins, Martin, Polley, and Sanogo. And it's been the worst BY FAR. It's our only lineup (with >20 poss) where we've been outscored, and this lineup has a -75 net rating, which is not just bad, but atrocious. We've scored 0.57 ppp (abominable) and our opponents have scored 1.32 ppp (abominable). This lineup was primarily used last game against Butler and a bit against Mich St and Seton Hall among others. Over 23 possessions, despite having who we thought coming in might be our 4 best shooters, the lineup has made 0 3's and opponents have made 67% of their 3s against. Hawkins is the highest usage volume player in this lineup, but didn't make a single shot or get to the line at all during this lineup's minutes. Cole also didn't make a single shot in this lineup. Sanogo shot half his normal %. Somehow, this is the lineup where we've had the highest % of our attempts at the rim, but we've converted terribly (Martin has actually been fine in this lineup, but Hawkins/Cole/Sanogo yuck yuck yuck near the rim). Defensively we forced a good amount of turnovers and a mostly normal shot distributions. Opponents just bombed away successfully, we fouled a bit more often, and this was our worst defensive rebounding lineup (which makes sense with Polley at the 4 and no Jackson).

uconn-lineup.png
 
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Also, Cole is 12th in the whole country and 1st in the Big East in on/off RAPM (31st offensive, 59th defensive). Kalkbrenner is next from Big East at 28th, followed by Jack Nunge and Moore/Gillespie.

Sanogo is 68th overall. Jackson #28 in defensive.
 
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The Polley/Whaley lineup once again dominated last night. +10 in 10 off+def possessions.
Starting lineup was good, +7 in 19 pos.

Didn't play that particular Cole/Polley/Sanogo, but was a small amount of Gaffney/Hawkins/Polley/Akok(Martin)/Sanogo lineups that worked. Nothing really didn't last night.
 
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Checking back in a month later. These are the last 30 days of lineups ONLY (not cumulative), also minimum 20 possessions played. Courtesy of hoop-explorer.

uconnlineuplast30.png


  • Sanogo lineups have been clearly outperforming Whaley lineups, while it had been previously mixed.
  • Cole/Martin/Polley/Jackson and 1 big is still the best performing lineup, but this time with Sanogo in place of Whaley (the Whaley version has been pretty pedestrian now vs. the best before). Surprisingly, this has been the best performing defensive lineup, even without Whaley. This has been our 2nd most played lineup over past 30 days. Hawkins in for Polley has been good on both sides of the ball, if not quite to the same excellence.
  • Stiffer competition has brought the starting lineup down to earth a bit. As suspected by many, and articulated frequently by @Chief00. the starting lineup has been our worst offensive lineup of our frequent lineups. However, it has still been extremely strong defensively, especially when considering it's basically the only lineup going against opposing starters.
  • Subbing in Hawkins for Jackson improves the starting lineup's offense, but has significant effects on the defense (although some of this is an artifact of hot opponent shooting-54% from 3- against this lineup, which is more unlucky than bad). Similar story with Polley in for Jackson, but the offense has been better with Hawkins.
  • We have not played any lineup with Gaffney more than 20 possessions during the last 30 days. Cole and Martin appear in every lineup with >20 possessions.
Performance in the Villanova game (small sample sizes outside of starting lineup):
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Polley/Sanogo - (+5) in 2 pos. (In for the Polley 3 at the end)
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Whaley/Sanogo - (+1) in 28 pos
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Polley/Whaley - (+2) in 6 pos
Cole/Martin/Polley/Whaley/Sanogo - (+2) in 5 pos
Cole/Hawkins/Martin/Polley/Whaley - (-5) in 5 pos
 
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Checking back in a month later. These are the last 30 days of lineups ONLY (not cumulative), also minimum 20 possessions played. Courtesy of hoop-explorer.

uconnlineuplast30.png


  • Sanogo lineups have been clearly outperforming Whaley lineups, while it had been previously mixed.
  • Cole/Martin/Polley/Jackson and 1 big is still the best performing lineup, but this time with Sanogo in place of Whaley (the Whaley version has been pretty pedestrian now vs. the best before). Surprisingly, this has been the best performing defensive lineup, even without Whaley. This has been our 2nd most played lineup over past 30 days. Hawkins in for Polley has been good on both sides of the ball, if not quite to the same excellence.
  • Stiffer competition has brought the starting lineup down to earth a bit. As suspected by many, and articulated frequently by @Chief00. the starting lineup has been our worst offensive lineup of our frequent lineups. However, it has still been extremely strong defensively, especially when considering it's basically the only lineup going against opposing starters.
  • Subbing in Hawkins for Jackson improves the starting lineup's offense, but has significant effects on the defense (although some of this is an artifact of hot opponent shooting-54% from 3- against this lineup, which is more unlucky than bad). Similar story with Polley in for Jackson, but the offense has been better with Hawkins.
  • We have not played any lineup with Gaffney more than 20 possessions during the last 30 days. Cole and Martin appear in every lineup with >20 possessions.
Performance in the Villanova game (small sample sizes outside of starting lineup):
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Polley/Sanogo - (+5) in 2 pos. (In for the Polley 3 at the end)
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Whaley/Sanogo - (+1) in 28 pos
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Polley/Whaley - (+2) in 6 pos
Cole/Martin/Polley/Whaley/Sanogo - (+2) in 5 pos
Cole/Hawkins/Martin/Polley/Whaley - (-5) in 5 pos
Cool stuff. Nerds rule!

Is the 30 day timeframe your choice, or a limitation of the website?
 
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Cool stuff. Nerds rule!

Is the 30 day timeframe your choice, or a limitation of the website?
There's a couple of pre-sets on the site and it's the shortest timeframe. I wanted to check in on the stats and coincidentally it had been exactly a month.

There's also a custom date range thing. Not sure if that's new or if I've always missed it.
 
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Checking back in a month later. These are the last 30 days of lineups ONLY (not cumulative), also minimum 20 possessions played. Courtesy of hoop-explorer.

uconnlineuplast30.png


  • Sanogo lineups have been clearly outperforming Whaley lineups, while it had been previously mixed.
  • Cole/Martin/Polley/Jackson and 1 big is still the best performing lineup, but this time with Sanogo in place of Whaley (the Whaley version has been pretty pedestrian now vs. the best before). Surprisingly, this has been the best performing defensive lineup, even without Whaley. This has been our 2nd most played lineup over past 30 days. Hawkins in for Polley has been good on both sides of the ball, if not quite to the same excellence.
  • Stiffer competition has brought the starting lineup down to earth a bit. As suspected by many, and articulated frequently by @Chief00. the starting lineup has been our worst offensive lineup of our frequent lineups. However, it has still been extremely strong defensively, especially when considering it's basically the only lineup going against opposing starters.
  • Subbing in Hawkins for Jackson improves the starting lineup's offense, but has significant effects on the defense (although some of this is an artifact of hot opponent shooting-54% from 3- against this lineup, which is more unlucky than bad). Similar story with Polley in for Jackson, but the offense has been better with Hawkins.
  • We have not played any lineup with Gaffney more than 20 possessions during the last 30 days. Cole and Martin appear in every lineup with >20 possessions.
Performance in the Villanova game (small sample sizes outside of starting lineup):
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Polley/Sanogo - (+5) in 2 pos. (In for the Polley 3 at the end)
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Whaley/Sanogo - (+1) in 28 pos
Cole/Jackson/Martin/Polley/Whaley - (+2) in 6 pos
Cole/Martin/Polley/Whaley/Sanogo - (+2) in 5 pos
Cole/Hawkins/Martin/Polley/Whaley - (-5) in 5 pos

Stats would seem to agree with the eye test a lot of people around here have had. Whaley and Sanogo are both really talented guys, but they have trouble playing together. Hence the starting lineup woes. If we could play offense/defense with Hawkins or Polley taking Whaley's spot on offense all game, we might be the best team in America.
 
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Stats would seem to agree with the eye test a lot of people around here have had. Whaley and Sanogo are both really talented guys, but they have trouble playing together. Hence the starting lineup woes. If we could play offense/defense with Hawkins or Polley taking Whaley's spot on offense all game, we might be the best team in America.
I'm not sure I'd call it "woes" necessarily. Sorting the site's "high tier" teams and doing 200+ possessions minimal to find starting lineups, we're the 14th best lineup overall and 20th best for conference season only. Further, some of these other lineups of our succeed because Hurley only plays them when optimal to do so (and by default they're against weaker opposing lineups).

Personally, I think there is value in a defensive/rebounding-oriented starting lineup as a "tone setter" for the team. But if you were to suggest maybe we could allocate some more minutes to other lineups as the game goes on, I think I'd agree. Whaley is playing 72% of minutes over last 5 games, I wouldn't mind seeing that closer to 50% and Hawkins/Polley getting bumped a few more minutes.
 
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I'm not sure I'd call it "woes" necessarily. Sorting the site's "high tier" teams and doing 200+ possessions minimal to find starting lineups, we're the 14th best lineup overall and 20th best for conference season only. Further, some of these other lineups succeed because Hurley only plays them when optimal to do so (and by default they're against weaker opposing lineups).

Personally, I think there is value in a defensive/rebounding-oriented starting lineup as a "tone setter" for the team. But if you were to suggest maybe we could allocate some more minutes to other lineups as the game goes on, I think I'd agree. Whaley is playing 72% of minutes over last 5 games, I wouldn't mind seeing that closer to 50% and Hawkins/Polley getting bumped a few more minutes.

I think Whaley's defensive abilities overcome any spacing shortcomings we have with him and Sanogo on the floor (especially with Jackson) against the vast majority of opponents. Next year, without a truly elite defender like Whaley at the 4, I think we'll need to prioritize the player who can give us the most bang for our buck offensively.
 
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I'm not sure I'd call it "woes" necessarily. Sorting the site's "high tier" teams and doing 200+ possessions minimal to find starting lineups, we're the 14th best lineup overall and 20th best for conference season only. Further, some of these other lineups of our succeed because Hurley only plays them when optimal to do so (and by default they're against weaker opposing lineups).

Personally, I think there is value in a defensive/rebounding-oriented starting lineup as a "tone setter" for the team. But if you were to suggest maybe we could allocate some more minutes to other lineups as the game goes on, I think I'd agree. Whaley is playing 72% of minutes over last 5 games, I wouldn't mind seeing that closer to 50% and Hawkins/Polley getting bumped a few more minutes.
One thing to note with a minimum 70 possessions our starting lineup with Polley in place of Whaley is first in net rating (3rd offensively and 58th defensively) in the country against top 100 teams. When the matchup warrants it this is a lineup great lineup to have in the back pocket, good floor spacing and still formidable defensively despite losing Whaley for Polley
 
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Next year, without a truly elite defender like Whaley at the 4, I think we'll need to prioritize the player who can give us the most bang for our buck offensively.
we know cole/hawk/aj/sanogo will all be starting so you must mean akok and/or samson?

i was just looking at season totals and akok leads samson 305 to 66 in terms of minutes played...not even close so if he's at all healthy it's akok's spot to lose.

i also cant believe hawk has still not passed gaffney in total minutes played yet. 372 versus 375. this should swing on saturday but jeeze.
 
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we know cole/hawk/aj/sanogo will all be starting so you must mean akok and/or samson?

i was just looking a season totals and akok leads samson 305 to 66 in terms of minutes played...not even close so if he's at all healthy it's akok's spot to lose.

i also cant believe hawk has still not passed gaffney in total minutes played yet. 372 versus 375. this should swing on saturday but jeeze.

Karaban an option as well. I have a feeling he'll be a day 1 contributor.
 
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Karaban an option as well. I have a feeling he'll be a day 1 contributor.
if he's good enough to start day 1 then watch out. a stretch 4 that can shoot, pass, put the ball on the floor would be idealllll. very happy he enrolled early. he especially needs to get in the weight room if he's going to play some 4 altho he's already listed as 6'8 210 on uconns site.
 
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if he's good enough to start day 1 then watch out. a stretch 4 that can shoot, pass, put the ball on the floor would be idealllll. very happy he enrolled early. he especially needs to get in the weight room if he's going to play some 4 altho he's already listed as 6'8 210 on uconns site.

I'm hesitant to ever hype up a freshman too much, but I think there's a good shot. IMO he is highly, highly undervalued as a recruit because he doesn't quite have an NBA game. Based on straight productivity in hs and aau, he's a top 25 talent in his class. Great size, great shooter, can post up, good passer... high IQ. Just an all around player with a fantastic shot.

He's the kind of player that puts up ridiculous college stats but still stays 3 years and gets drafted low because he doesn't have an NBA game or athleticism.

I'm sure you know I'm pretty honest about recruits. I'm not always on the money. I had Diggins and Johnson right, but kind of overestimated Hawkins readiness defensively especially. Springs I was off on. Sanogo I knew would be good. You get the idea.
 
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I'm hesitant to ever hype up a freshman too much, but I think there's a good shot. IMO he is highly, highly undervalued as a recruit because he doesn't quite have an NBA game. Based on straight productivity in hs and aau, he's a top 25 talent in his class. Great size, great shooter, can post up, good passer... high IQ. Just an all around player with a fantastic shot.

He's the kind of player that puts up ridiculous college stats but still stays 3 years and gets drafted low because he doesn't have an NBA game or athleticism.

I'm sure you know I'm pretty honest about recruits. I'm not always on the money. I had Diggins and Johnson right, but kind of overestimated Hawkins readiness defensively especially. Springs I was off on. Sanogo I knew would be good. You get the idea.
I'd just be careful with the expectations on Karaban. I think there's going to be an adjustment period playing against high D1 athletes. He has a good basketball IQ but playing against bigger quicker players is going to take time to adjust to. Just my opinion.
 

87Xfer

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if he's good enough to start day 1 then watch out. a stretch 4 that can shoot, pass, put the ball on the floor would be idealllll. very happy he enrolled early. he especially needs to get in the weight room if he's going to play some 4 altho he's already listed as 6'8 210 on uconns site.
6'8"? I didn't realize that.
 
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Imagine on the 24th of January these metrics somehow showed our best defensive lineup was with Cole, Gaffney, Polley, Jackson and Akok lol....yikes.
 
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Imagine on the 24th of January these metrics somehow showed our best defensive lineup was with Cole, Gaffney, Polley, Jackson and Akok lol....yikes.
Definitely have to keep context in mind. Only 20 possessions and that lineup was definitely only in against cupcakes.
 
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Removing Whaley for Polley too often would lead to far fewer second chance points and leave a gap in defense. Whaley is one of those guys who often defies what the numbers would logically lead one to believe.
 

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