Fuller: Looks like Morgan is out again tomorrow

[ochoopsfan]

Actually it's very clear - and unfortuately Adamec hasn't done any homework. As I posted last week, the Houston game was #16. UConn has 32 games on their schedule that count towards the limit (including one tournament game). So the 16th game is still in the first half.

Is the wording 50% or "more" than 50%?
Also, are you 100% sure that the first game of a conference tournament is included in the total number?
I remember reading something a few years ago, on a different forum, that tournament games weren't included in the total. This was in reference to the 30% rule. It isn't easy to look up info on this subject.
Either way, I hope both Ms. Tuck and the UConn folks decide whats best for her, and most importantly she heals 100%.

 

[stamfordhusky]

The rule says she cannot have played in the second half of the season. Since her last game was the 16th game of a 32-game schedule, that is clearly in the first half. And teams are always allowed to include one tournament game in the denominator of the formula. It's easy to look up the info. Simply go to the NCAA website and access the bylaws. Adamec should have done that before he printed questionable info.

 

[Icebear]

I count a 31 game schedule plus the two tournaments. 4+6

 

[stamfordhusky]

I count a 31 game schedule plus the two tournaments. 4+6

Yes, that sounds right - but not for a hardship waiver calculation.

 

[Icebear]

16 would be more than 50% of 31. Thus someone's earlier question about does the first game of the tournament count.

 

[stamfordhusky]

You mean she will have to wait 'til the end of the year to find out?
The poor lady would be devastated if she's done for this year and then loses the appeal.

If it is truly a documented season-ending injury, then the appeal is simply an administrative requirement. In that case, she would be 100% certain to get it if there was legitimate medical documentation - and I have no doubt there will be if she has to go that route.

 

[stamfordhusky]

16 would be more than 50% of 31.

Yes, but 31 is irrelevant. The denominator used in the formula is 32.

 

[Icebear]

Yes, but 31 is irrelevant. The denominator used in the formula is 32.

The question asked is why 32 if the schedule has 31 games.

 

[ochoopsfan]

I looked over the ncaa manual http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D114.pdf
and its 400+ pages and has no index for the term red shirt or medical hardship.

I googled the search and found this from e-how. I can't validate its accuracy as it doesn't reference its sources. However the wording is interesting as it adds an additional condition.

Medical Hardship Exemption

• The NCAA allows a seriously injured athlete to extend her eligibility period through a medical hardship exemption, commonly referred to by media outlets as a "medical redshirt," though the NCAA does not use this terminology.
  
  An athlete can qualify for this exemption if she has a documented, incapacitating injury or illness that occurred in the first half of the basketball season and the student-athlete has not participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of her team's scheduled contests, whichever number is greater.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6716421_college-basketball-redshirting-rules.html

 

[jsloanjr]

knee injuries do not heal very fast and every player is different and Morgan is a slow healer.....They will do what is best for the player..........Geno cares about his players like they were his daughters.........If she is ok to get a medical red shirt, get it and run.........IMO.

 

[VAMike23]

I looked over the ncaa manual http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D114.pdf
and its 400+ pages and has no index for the term red shirt or medical hardship.

I googled the search and found this from e-how. I can't validate its accuracy as it doesn't reference its sources. However the wording is interesting as it adds an additional condition.

Medical Hardship Exemption

• 
  
  
  [ ]The NCAA allows a seriously injured athlete to extend her eligibility period through a medical hardship exemption, commonly referred to by media outlets as a "medical redshirt," though the NCAA does not use this terminology.
  
  An athlete can qualify for this exemption if she has a documented, incapacitating injury or illness that occurred in the first half of the basketball season and the student-athlete has not participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of her team's scheduled contests, whichever number is greater.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6716421_college-basketball-redshirting-rules.html

That language is from the previous rule, part of which included the 20% threshold. The rule was amended in 2007 ( I think) to allow for a 30% threshold, among other changes.

I think Stamfordhusky is on top of this one.

 

[Sonny44]

knee injuries do not heal very fast and every player is different and Morgan is a slow healer.....They will do what is best for the player.....Geno cares about his players like they were his daughters....If she is ok to get a medical red shirt, get it and run....IMO.

I agree.
Plus if she needs more surgery it gives her much more time to get ready for next year.

 

[sawxfan23]

Here is a great PDF from MSU compliance office.

www.msu.edu/~msuncaa/Medical%20Hardship%20Waivers.pdf

 

[ndmb]

Here's what I found from the NCAA manual:


14.2.4.3.4.1
Team Sports.
In team sports, the first half of the season is measured by the number of scheduled contests or dates of competition not exceeding the maximum limitations in each sport as set forth in Bylaw 17 as set prior to the first scheduled contest or date of competition of the designated official NCAA championship playing season in the applicable sport or the number of completed contests or dates of competition. In determining if an injury or illness occurs prior to the first competition of the second half of the season that concludes with the NCAA championship in a sport with an odd number of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition, the injury or illness must have occurred prior to the beginning of the scheduled or completed varsity contest or date of competition that starts the second half of the season that concludes with the NCAA championship (e.g., an injury or illness occurring at any time after the beginning of the scheduled sixth game of an 11-game schedule would be considered to be after the first half of the institution’s season and would not qualify the student-athlete for a hardship waiver).(Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 8/4/05, 4/24/08)

Thus, it's not clear to me from the above paragraph. Possibly what Stamford is referring to is the first game of the conference season tournament which, in a conference in which every teams plays in the tournament, could be construed as a scheduled date of competition. Otherwise, unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure why UConn could count it's schedule as 32 games.

 

[Icebear]

ndmb, that is exactly the clarification from stamford I am desiring.

 

[stamfordhusky]

The question asked is why 32 if the schedule has 31 games.

See my post above. The formula uses all regular season games plus an allowance of one game for a team's league tournament. They don't use actual tournament games played because that would favor teams that advance in their tournaments.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I looked over the ncaa manual http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D114.pdf
and its 400+ pages and has no index for the term red shirt or medical hardship.

Search the manual for "hardship waiver" and you will find a number of pages on the subject.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Here's what I found from the NCAA manual:


14.2.4.3.4.1
Team Sports.
In team sports, the first half of the season is measured by the number of scheduled contests or dates of competition not exceeding the maximum limitations in each sport as set forth in Bylaw 17 as set prior to the first scheduled contest or date of competition of the designated official NCAA championship playing season in the applicable sport or the number of completed contests or dates of competition. In determining if an injury or illness occurs prior to the first competition of the second half of the season that concludes with the NCAA championship in a sport with an odd number of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition, the injury or illness must have occurred prior to the beginning of the scheduled or completed varsity contest or date of competition that starts the second half of the season that concludes with the NCAA championship (e.g., an injury or illness occurring at any time after the beginning of the scheduled sixth game of an 11-game schedule would be considered to be after the first half of the institution’s season and would not qualify the student-athlete for a hardship waiver).(Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 8/4/05, 4/24/08)

Thus, it's not clear to me from the above paragraph. Possibly what Stamford is referring to is the first game of the conference season tournament which, in a conference in which every teams plays in the tournament, could be construed as a scheduled date of competition. Otherwise, unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure why UConn could count it's schedule as 32 games.

Look at this part in the Hardship Waiver section:

The denominator in the institution’s percent calculation shall be based on the institution’s number of scheduled or completed varsity contests or dates of competition [see Bylaw 14.2.4-(c)] as computed for playing and practice season purposes in Bylaw 17 for the applicable sport. . . . A conference championship shall be counted as one contest or date of competition in determining the institution's scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in that sport, regardless of the number of days or games involved n the championship.
However, for purposes of this regulation, the calculation of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in a particular season does not include postseason competition conducted after the completion of the institution’s regular season schedule and conference tournament.

 

[ndmb]

Look at this part in the Hardship Waiver section:

The denominator in the institution’s percent calculation shall be based on the institution’s number of scheduled or completed varsity contests or dates of competition [see Bylaw 14.2.4-(c)] as computed for playing and practice season purposes in Bylaw 17 for the applicable sport. . . . A conference championship shall be counted as one contest or date of competition in determining the institution's scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in that sport, regardless of the number of days or games involved n the championship.
However, for purposes of this regulation, the calculation of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in a particular season does not include postseason competition conducted after the completion of the institution’s regular season schedule and conference tournament.

Got it. Thanks!

 

[Icebear]

See my post above. The formula uses all regular season games plus an allowance of one game for a team's league tournament. They don't use actual tournament games played because that would favor teams that advance in their tournaments.

Thank you that is what I had missed.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Is Morgan's Sophomore Season at Risk: http://elmcitytoeaglevillenhr.blogspot.com/2014/01/is-uconns-morgan-tucks-sophomore-season.html

Reading between the lines, if I was a betting person, I say Morgan will be shut down for the year. I suspect at various times over the next two weeks, Morgan will practice hard and if there's repeated swelling in the knee, they'll shut her down for the year. If it happens, it will be a big loss.

I don't think Geno would hold her out for the year, then hope Morgan could play 6 games in the tournament to hold off any necessary surgery for Morgan's long term health. Players health comes first. I suspect Morgan might be willing to do that for her teammates.

 

[Tenspro2002]

At this point, you have to wonder if she's ever going to be fully healthy for an entire season with us.

 

[Wbbfan1]

If Morgan doesn't play, UConn will apply for Medical RedShirt: http://elmcitytoeaglevillenhr.blogspot.com/2014/01/little-bit-of-update-on-redshirt.html

 

[stamfordhusky]

Jim Fuller doesn't seem to understand the NCAA rule either.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Jim Fuller doesn't seem to understand the NCAA rule either.

Why not educate him...here is a link with comments asked for...

http://elmcitytoeaglevillenhr.blogspot.com/