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FSU, ACC In It For The Long Haul

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You know, we may have loved that VTech got the call instead of Syracuse but not because we wished ill will on Syracuse but because we valued Syracuse as a conference mate and rival. For a few years I had felt very strongly that UConn fans and Cuse fans were kind of kindred spirits. I still don't have bad feelings for Syracuse except for those fans who have obviously enjoyed dancing on our alleged grave and of course those fans who love to come here and lecture us as to why we've been orphaned by the CR process. You think you enjoy some sort of superiority over us but the reality is that no matter what conference either of us are in we're passing you. I for one wish to extend to you a hearty double middle finger. Keep your lectures to yourself.
 
From a Pitt perspective, I find the lawsuit talk to be very interesting. I agree if you look deep into the facts you will find that Pitt, Cuse, and Uconn all had relatively equal parts in pushing the lawsuit forward and in making negative public statements about the ACC. But at the time of the lawsuit, I can remember thinking that Uconn was spearheading the lawsuit. I remember being jealous that with Uconn spearheading the lawsuit that Uconn would be the team to reap most of the lawsuit benefits (money, games, ACC invite). 10 years later, I agree that Pitt and Syracuse played a large (and probably equal) part in the lawsuit, but right or wrong the perception at Pitt is still that Uconn spearheaded the lawsuit and Pitt and Syracuse were followers.

Again speaking from a Pitt perspective, I can remember feeling deserted and being very angry with Miami for leaving. I remember thinking that I completely understand VT joining the ACC. I remember not really caring that BC had left for the ACC. From a fan perspective, I never felt bad blood with the ACC or BC or VT. Most Pitt fans only felt bad blood with Miami, and it fizzled away within a couple years because Miami is 2000 miles away and we never heard from them again.

I think Uconn is in a unique situation with BC because you have rivalries in athletics, recruiting, acedemics, social activities, location, and much more. Therefore, you remember the little things and hold grudges because thats what rivalries are all about. If BC would have been WVU, I'm sure every Pitt and WVU fan would remember every work spoken for years to come.

I can not speak for the heart of ACC country, but I truely think that the lawsuit is an excuse only being used by the fan bases and not truely being discussed by the presidents and ADs. I do not believe that BC or anyone else threatened to veto Uconn because of the lawsuit. I do think that BC threatened to veto because of territory, and I think Uconn has every right to be upset, but this takes place in every conference. FSU, Clemson, and GT are automatic vetos in the SEC. Not sure how seriously, but Pitt was being consider for the Big 10 a few years back and PSU said no.
 
You know, we may have loved that VTech got the call instead of Syracuse but not because we wished ill will on Syracuse but because we valued Syracuse as a conference mate and rival. For a few years I had felt very strongly that UConn fans and Cuse fans were kind of kindred spirits. I still don't have bad feelings for Syracuse except for those fans who have obviously enjoyed dancing on our alleged grave and of course those fans who love to come here and lecture us as to why we've been orphaned by the CR process. You think you enjoy some sort of superiority over us but the reality is that no matter what conference either of us are in we're passing you. I for one wish to extend to you a hearty double middle finger. Keep your lectures to yourself.

First off, I have been respectful here and on my board. I haven't danced on any UConn graves and wish Rutgers was the school that got shafted as their internet fanbase wants to make themselves out to be this great Northeast power when they have been the definition of mediocre. I think UConn was better than Rutgers for the B1G and have posted that on numerous occasions.

Second, I don't act superior over anybody I am giving my opinion which is something you don't agree with fine, but do not tell me I am lecturing you and your fanbase when I have I stated some of my post is opinion.

Third, if I thought I was talking with a superiority I wouldn't be analyzing objectively go read my post in is realignment dead thread and tell me I am talking down to UConn. You are exactly the fan I don't feel bad for when if you checked my posts here and on the SU board you don't find me taunting your fanbase, but because you want to target me I honestly don't care what you think and if you don't like my posts I recommend you ignore them, and not take them personally. However, I doubt you have the class to do so as your message is completely lacking in it. I don't expect your fanbase to like my posts, but you should be able to have a discourse and reasonable discussions when I don't say anything nasty. Instead, you are the one bringing the nasty, and try to blame it on me. Your posts in this thread are a disgrace to the avatar of Bill Raftery. I respect the fact CtMike is being respectful without agreeing with me even Upstater isn't attacking me like you.
 
From a Pitt perspective, I find the lawsuit talk to be very interesting. I agree if you look deep into the facts you will find that Pitt, Cuse, and Uconn all had relatively equal parts in pushing the lawsuit forward and in making negative public statements about the ACC. But at the time of the lawsuit, I can remember thinking that Uconn was spearheading the lawsuit. I remember being jealous that with Uconn spearheading the lawsuit that Uconn would be the team to reap most of the lawsuit benefits (money, games, ACC invite). 10 years later, I agree that Pitt and Syracuse played a large (and probably equal) part in the lawsuit, but right or wrong the perception at Pitt is still that Uconn spearheaded the lawsuit and Pitt and Syracuse were followers.

Again speaking from a Pitt perspective, I can remember feeling deserted and being very angry with Miami for leaving. I remember thinking that I completely understand VT joining the ACC. I remember not really caring that BC had left for the ACC. From a fan perspective, I never felt bad blood with the ACC or BC or VT. Most Pitt fans only felt bad blood with Miami, and it fizzled away within a couple years because Miami is 2000 miles away and we never heard from them again.

I think Uconn is in a unique situation with BC because you have rivalries in athletics, recruiting, acedemics, social activities, location, and much more. Therefore, you remember the little things and hold grudges because thats what rivalries are all about. If BC would have been WVU, I'm sure every Pitt and WVU fan would remember every work spoken for years to come.

I can not speak for the heart of ACC country, but I truely think that the lawsuit is an excuse only being used by the fan bases and not truely being discussed by the presidents and ADs. I do not believe that BC or anyone else threatened to veto Uconn because of the lawsuit. I do think that BC threatened to veto because of territory, and I think Uconn has every right to be upset, but this takes place in every conference. FSU, Clemson, and GT are automatic vetos in the SEC. Not sure how seriously, but Pitt was being consider for the Big 10 a few years back and PSU said no.
Sorry to tell you but Syracuse WAS NOT part of the lawsuit and were not followers. If your a Pitt fan how can't you realize that? Your better point to make was that VPI was an original plaintiff against the conference that offered them membership a month later and had to pathetically withdraw from the lawsuit, but instead didn't and tried to make SU and Pitt equal followers of UConn.
 
First off, I have been respectful here and on my board. I haven't danced on any UConn graves and wish Rutgers was the school that got shafted as their internet fanbase wants to make themselves out to be this great Northeast power when they have been the definition of mediocre. I think UConn was better than Rutgers for the B1G and have posted that on numerous occasions.

Second, I don't act superior over anybody I am giving my opinion which is something you don't agree with fine, but do not tell me I am lecturing you and your fanbase when I have I stated some of my post is opinion.

Third, if I thought I was talking with a superiority I wouldn't be analyzing objectively go read my post in is realignment dead thread and tell me I am talking down to UConn. You are exactly the fan I don't feel bad for when if you checked my posts here and on the SU board you don't find me taunting your fanbase, but because you want to target me I honestly don't care what you think and if you don't like my posts I recommend you ignore them, and not take them personally. However, I doubt you have the class to do so as your message is completely lacking in it. I don't expect your fanbase to like my posts, but you should be able to have a discourse and reasonable discussions when I don't say anything nasty. Instead, you are the one bringing the nasty, and try to blame it on me. Your posts in this thread are a disgrace to the avatar of Bill Raftery. I respect the fact CtMike is being respectful without agreeing with me even Upstater isn't attacking me like you.

Go piss up a rope
 
From a Pitt perspective, I find the lawsuit talk to be very interesting. I agree if you look deep into the facts you will find that Pitt, Cuse, and Uconn all had relatively equal parts in pushing the lawsuit forward and in making negative public statements about the ACC. But at the time of the lawsuit, I can remember thinking that Uconn was spearheading the lawsuit. I remember being jealous that with Uconn spearheading the lawsuit that Uconn would be the team to reap most of the lawsuit benefits (money, games, ACC invite). 10 years later, I agree that Pitt and Syracuse played a large (and probably equal) part in the lawsuit, but right or wrong the perception at Pitt is still that Uconn spearheaded the lawsuit and Pitt and Syracuse were followers.

Again speaking from a Pitt perspective, I can remember feeling deserted and being very angry with Miami for leaving. I remember thinking that I completely understand VT joining the ACC. I remember not really caring that BC had left for the ACC. From a fan perspective, I never felt bad blood with the ACC or BC or VT. Most Pitt fans only felt bad blood with Miami, and it fizzled away within a couple years because Miami is 2000 miles away and we never heard from them again.

I think Uconn is in a unique situation with BC because you have rivalries in athletics, recruiting, acedemics, social activities, location, and much more. Therefore, you remember the little things and hold grudges because thats what rivalries are all about. If BC would have been WVU, I'm sure every Pitt and WVU fan would remember every work spoken for years to come.

I can not speak for the heart of ACC country, but I truely think that the lawsuit is an excuse only being used by the fan bases and not truely being discussed by the presidents and ADs. I do not believe that BC or anyone else threatened to veto Uconn because of the lawsuit. I do think that BC threatened to veto because of territory, and I think Uconn has every right to be upset, but this takes place in every conference. FSU, Clemson, and GT are automatic vetos in the SEC. Not sure how seriously, but Pitt was being consider for the Big 10 a few years back and PSU said no.

I agree with much of what you say.

Just a couple things to add. The things that were said by Cuse (which wasn't party to the suit) were much more insulting than anything coming out of Connecticut or Nordenberg's mouth. UConn did spearhead it, the AG did and it was filed in Ct. As for BC, it really isn't a matter of a rivalry or grudge since the 2 schools hardly played in football and in basketball, there was never much competition. Rather, it's a matter of public record. There are 4 different instances which we cite to show that BC has been obstructing UConn.

1. Bob Ryan reported in 2002 that BC's AD was very threatened by UConn.
2. When BC left for the ACC, it did so while presiding over the BE's reorganization.
3. When Cuse and Pitt left, the BC AD came out in the press and stated that he had blackballed UConn's candidacy in committee (prior to the offers and the presidential votes), and that furthermore, expansion was goaded by ESPN.
4. We read reports back in November that as Uconn was "penned in" (to quote Louisville's AD) for the ACC, that again BC's new AD rose up to obstruct and blackball UConn. The Presidents and ADs at Duke and North Carolina were incredulous with BC and thought they were being ridiculous. No matter that the SEC avoids in-state competition (except in Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee), the ACC does not, and the four Tobacco Road schools especially (within 1 hour of each other) thought BC was being ridiculous. Besides, I consider the SEC's blocks to be more about TV markets than anything else. Obviously, BC and UConn do not share the same TV market--nor even the same state.

By the way, PSU was a big backer of Pitt to the B1G. You may be confusing their scheduling squabble with PSU's backing.
 
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Sorry to tell you but Syracuse WAS NOT part of the lawsuit and were not followers. If your a Pitt fan how can't you realize that? Your better point to make was that VPI was an original plaintiff against the conference that offered them membership a month later and had to pathetically withdraw from the lawsuit, but instead didn't and tried to make SU and Pitt equal followers of UConn.

Thanks for reminding me that V Tech was offered a month after suing the ACC! This underscores our points. Remember, the BE didn't even sue the ACC. It was instead the four schools.

Still, you're missing the back story on Cuse's fight with BC. It exists.
 
First off, I have been respectful here and on my board. I haven't danced on any UConn graves and wish Rutgers was the school that got shafted as their internet fanbase wants to make themselves out to be this great Northeast power when they have been the definition of mediocre. I think UConn was better than Rutgers for the B1G and have posted that on numerous occasions.

Second, I don't act superior over anybody I am giving my opinion which is something you don't agree with fine, but do not tell me I am lecturing you and your fanbase when I have I stated some of my post is opinion.

Third, if I thought I was talking with a superiority I wouldn't be analyzing objectively go read my post in is realignment dead thread and tell me I am talking down to UConn. You are exactly the fan I don't feel bad for when if you checked my posts here and on the SU board you don't find me taunting your fanbase, but because you want to target me I honestly don't care what you think and if you don't like my posts I recommend you ignore them, and not take them personally. However, I doubt you have the class to do so as your message is completely lacking in it. I don't expect your fanbase to like my posts, but you should be able to have a discourse and reasonable discussions when I don't say anything nasty. Instead, you are the one bringing the nasty, and try to blame it on me. Your posts in this thread are a disgrace to the avatar of Bill Raftery. I respect the fact CtMike is being respectful without agreeing with me even Upstater isn't attacking me like you.

After a year without posting, you bless our board with this heartfelt gem:

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/for-what-it-is-worth.38484/page-6#post-588934

Just the first in a number of rambling lectures describing to us how we're not good enough but should be happy, I guess, with our puny accomplishmnets when compared to a TITAN of college FB like Syracuse.

Seriously, save me the lectures, save me your sage advice, save me your complete disdain of facts and save me the faux outrage and hurt feelings.

You're a numpty and my Bill Raftery avatar blows farts in your general direction.
 
Thanks for reminding me that V Tech was offered a month after suing the ACC! This underscores our points. Remember, the BE didn't even sue the ACC. It was instead the four schools.

Still, you're missing the back story on Cuse's fight with BC. It exists.

Listen I don't despise UConn and truthfully feel a little bad for your legit fans as SU-UConn is one of our biggest basketball rivalries and we have played a lot on the hardwood. I am not saying SU isn't innocent in what they said about BC. I am just saying from conservations I have had the impetus of the lawsuit has fallen on UConn and you have made some legit points that underscore the fact their are misconstrued facts out there that need to be corrected. I don't believe the lawsuit should fall squarely on UConn, I am just saying that is how it is perceived, and the UConn leadership I would hope your fanbase has attempted to have an audience and clear any problems. I think VPI gets a pass on the fact they were plaintiffs in the suit and had to embarrassingly withdraw from suing the conference that threw them a lifeline. I always bring that up to Hokie friends, but my point overall was that UConn should attempt to rectify that lawsuit and fallout if they want to be considered in the future for ACC membership.

Eventually, IMO the ACC will add a 16th team when Notre Dame(I think 2026) will become the 15th football school. I think the contenders will be UConn, Cincinnati assuming they aren't in other major conferences or West Vriginia. I think the WVU fanbase attempts to destroy the ACC will have an irrevocable harm on them joining ever. UConn and Cincinnati are the other 2 schools that will be considered and each has good value, but if UConn hasn't cleared up any potential damage from that lawsuit even UConn fans don't realize it there is any damage then the ACC will likely take Cincinnati since both schools will be perceived as equal. Disagree with me if you think otherwise, but what I am saying is UConn should do everything it can to make sure other fans don't think the lawsuit is a negative for your school.
 
After a year without posting, you bless our board with this heartfelt gem:

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/for-what-it-is-worth.38484/page-6#post-588934

Just the first in a number of rambling lectures describing to us how we're not good enough but should be happy, I guess, with our puny accomplishmnets when compared to a TITAN of college FB like Syracuse.

Seriously, save me the lectures, save me your sage advice, save me your complete disdain of facts and save me the faux outrage and hurt feelings.

You're a numpty and my Bill Raftery avatar blows farts in your general direction.

Again, my overall point in those messages was that UConn's basketball brand is not the same as its football brand. I don't think any UConn fan would dispute this, and secondly I said for as bad as Syracuse football was from 2005 to 2009 UConn football hadn't surpassed SU nationally. Good god, you are the one who has acted classless in your posts towards me. Don't agree with me, but the fact you said I was with acting with a superiority and lecturing you shows how touche you are.

Most UConn fans would objectively say I have been respectful and stuck to my opinions which UConn fans may disagree with completely/partially. You obviously feel differently, but don't try telling me I have been rude. I have been respectful in all my posts except the one responding to your classless remarks my way. I will continue to be respectful on this board except when I am targeted unjustifiably which you did.
 
I misspoke about Syracuse being part of the lawsuit. I meant to group the lawsuit and following quotes and comments all as one. I would say the quotes and comments are made by Pitt following the lawsuit caused more damage than being part of it.
 
After a year without posting, you bless our board with this heartfelt gem:

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/for-what-it-is-worth.38484/page-6#post-588934

Just the first in a number of rambling lectures describing to us how we're not good enough but should be happy, I guess, with our puny accomplishmnets when compared to a TITAN of college FB like Syracuse.

Seriously, save me the lectures, save me your sage advice, save me your complete disdain of facts and save me the faux outrage and hurt feelings.

You're a numpty and my Bill Raftery avatar blows farts in your general direction.
Did you read this one? Something tells me no.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/possible-future-conference-realignment-scenarios.38997/
 
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but my point overall was that UConn should attempt to rectify that lawsuit and fallout if they want to be considered in the future for ACC membership.

Eventually, IMO the ACC will add a 16th team when Notre Dame(I think 2026) will become the 15th football school. I think the contenders will be UConn, Cincinnati assuming they aren't in other major conferences or West Vriginia. I think the WVU fanbase attempts to destroy the ACC will have an irrevocable harm on them joining ever. UConn and Cincinnati are the other 2 schools that will be considered and each has good value, but if UConn hasn't cleared up any potential damage from that lawsuit even UConn fans don't realize it there is any damage then the ACC will likely take Cincinnati since both schools will be perceived as equal. Disagree with me if you think otherwise, but what I am saying is UConn should do everything it can to make sure other fans don't think the lawsuit is a negative for your school.

I can't disagree with you more here.
 
I misspoke about Syracuse being part of the lawsuit. I meant to group the lawsuit and following quotes and comments all as one. I would say the quotes and comments are made by Pitt following the lawsuit caused more damage than being part of it.

Apparently, those comments caused no damage at all!
 
Fair enough, I am interested in what though.

Everything there. It rests on the supposition that the lawsuit matters at all. I've already explained this and given evidence.
 
Look, we can surmise all we want about the effect of the lawsuit but I'm more inclined to confirm what alsacs has been saying (and I've posted this before). A good friend of mine who is also a very good friend of Jim Boeheim was playing golf with him after Jim had attended his first ACC meeting. My buddy called me later that day-knowing I'm a huge UConn backer--to tell me Jim said one of the things that surprised him was the level of vitriole (not his word, lol) at UConn about "that lawsuit". "It won't go away". He also said "based on what I heard down there, I don't think UConn's getting in." Which, by the way, he wasn't happy about. Dismiss it if you will, but that's pretty much a verbatim account.
 
Look, we can surmise all we want about the effect of the lawsuit but I'm more inclined to confirm what alsacs has been saying (and I've posted this before). A good friend of mine who is also a very good friend of Jim Boeheim was playing golf with him after Jim had attended his first ACC meeting. My buddy called me later that day-knowing I'm a huge UConn backer--to tell me Jim said one of the things that surprised him was the level of vitriole (not his word, lol) at UConn about "that lawsuit". "It won't go away". He also said "based on what I heard down there, I don't think UConn's getting in." Which, by the way, he wasn't happy about. Dismiss it if you will, but that's pretty much a verbatim account.

Who is vitriolic? UNC? Virginia? Duke? Wake Forest? They are the backers. Miami and BC, well no surprise there. Who else cares? Enough to keep out VT and Pitt? No. Heck, Nordenburg said more than any.
 
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Look, we can surmise all we want about the effect of the lawsuit but I'm more inclined to confirm what alsacs has been saying (and I've posted this before). A good friend of mine who is also a very good friend of Jim Boeheim was playing golf with him after Jim had attended his first ACC meeting. My buddy called me later that day-knowing I'm a huge UConn backer--to tell me Jim said one of the things that surprised him was the level of vitriole (not his word, lol) at UConn about "that lawsuit". "It won't go away". He also said "based on what I heard down there, I don't think UConn's getting in." Which, by the way, he wasn't happy about. Dismiss it if you will, but that's pretty much a verbatim account.

Also, you may want to give Jeff Jacobs your sources, because yours might be better than his. He reported that Cuse's AD Gross was looking to ice out UConn, and that his sources inside Syracuse's AD office said that Boeheim was working over Coach K. for the same reason.
 
No ones ever suggested that the ACC sacrificed any money by leaving UConn out. Whenever I hear the lawsuit I laugh. Talk to me about squeezing out the Big 12 and taking Pitt and SU. Talk to me about Raycom and their 3 stations and operations in Ohio including Cincy, and in the Louisville market. They put up 35% of the contract. What was there due diligence? We know what it was.

Gene Deflippo and UConn have a long history going back to his stay at Nova. UConn embarrassed the man over and over. The flipper bailed on Nova Football knowing he couldn't put together a team to upgrade football back in 96. He drove BC into the dirt.
 
There's a difference between icing out UConn and looking out for your own seat at the table. I'm sure SU was quick to remind anyone who would listen they were passed over last time and are the good guys. Oliver Luck and Pitts AD were just as condescending in their conversations.
 
If UConn was able to blow the other candidates away on current substantive issues, then I doubt that anyone would have thought twice about the lawsuit, but the fact that UConn didn't blow away the other candidates means that every little bit of negative information (whether real or perceived) can trickle in and make an impact on a school's overall profile.

Would like to hear Tank's view as an out-of-state person on ESPN's apparent inability/reluctance/refusal to give UConn a hand, especially in light of the recent tax breaks they received from the state. Already had two heated debates on the BY already about this. Sort of surprised a non-ESPN related out of state media entity hasn't hit this topic yet.
 
Would like to hear Tank's view as an out-of-state person on ESPN's apparent inability/reluctance/refusal to give UConn a hand, especially in light of the recent tax breaks they received from the state. Already had two heated debates on the BY already about this. Sort of surprised a non-ESPN related out of state media entity hasn't hit this topic yet.

I honestly don't want to read through those 2 threads, but will answer as I can guess its a discussion of whether or not ESPN should have its lucrative tax breaks removed without helping UConn find a better home.

I would ask do you think ESPN can tell a conference to add a school if it the conference can't do it at that time? I believe ESPN told the ACC in an unofficial official way that the only way to fix your bad deal we signed with you was to expand the conference. I also believe that when Nordenberg, WVU, RU, and ND all talked the Big East into not signing that 14 million per football school contract ESPN got angry. However, looking back I don't think ESPN should have been worried if they had a right to match any contract provision like they had when they resigned the AAC from the awful deal NBC offered. If ESPN was worried about NBCSN or FOX making a play for the Big East I highly doubt the offer would have been significantly more than the offer ESPN offered the Big East in July 2011. If ESPN told the ACC to expand then looking at the Big East it was pretty obvious Syracuse was one target and one of Rutgers, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, and UConn would be the other target.

In September 2011, David Glenn who is a plugged in ACC reporter the week before Syracuse/Pitt announced their departures and went on the radio and said ACC expansion was going to happen and Syracuse was an obvious target and the ACC would look at Texas(this was when the Big XII was in chaos still), Connecticut, Pittsburgh, and West Virginia were the other possibilities. Then September 17th the Brett McMurphy article came out and Syracuse and Pittsburgh were gone. Gene DeFilippio gave his stupid comments and if the Big East wanted to sue ESPN(they would actually have a tortious interference claim against ESPN not the ACC though) with dumb statement that ESPN told the ACC what to do. Now, UConn fans believe that due to that Mark Blaudschun article Boston College/Miami are the ones that changed Syracuse/UConn to Syracuse/Pitt do I believe this? I believe that UConn was considered with Pittsburgh and West Virginia and BC/Miami was raised a stink(possibly more schools did, but we will never know without the minutes being leaked) and the other ACC officials on the 4x4x4 committee realized it wasn't worth splitting hairs over and decided to go with Syracuse/Pittsburgh over Syracuse/UConn because both Pitt/UConn were close enough that dealing with the hassle of BC/Miami and who else wasn't worth it.

I would state that your state legislature should weight the tax breaks being given to ESPN and the jobs they create in the state of Connecticut versus using those tax breaks revenues in other areas for the residents of the state of Connecticut. However, your Legislature/Governor can't Marc Warner ESPN into putting UConn in another conference as ESPN could probably move to Charlotte or LA if they wanted. I think ESPN in Bristol is great for the state of Connecticut and if those tax breaks help your local economy then the Governor/Legislature is doing its job. Cut the tax breaks and all ESPN will do is make the profits elsewhere by raising their carrier charge or moving more personnel to Charlotte and Los Angeles. UConn isn't dead in realignment, but if you wanted to declare war on ESPN you better off suing them and having them cut you a check rather than taking away tax breaks that could benefit your local economy if they are doing that. If the tax breaks are bad for the state of Connecticut then get rid of them.

Edit: Here is the radio clip I was referring with David Glenn right before Syracuse/Pitt left. http://www.wina.com/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=5469571
 
FWIW I don't think anyone is talking about 'declaring war' on anyone. My feeling is our state political leaders have been much more passive about this than leaders in other states (North Carolina and California, to use those examples) might have been. At best ESPN has been a passive neighbor in this dumpster fire, which is bad enough.
 
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Would like to hear Tank's view as an out-of-state person on ESPN's apparent inability/reluctance/refusal to give UConn a hand, especially in light of the recent tax breaks they received from the state. Already had two heated debates on the BY already about this. Sort of surprised a non-ESPN related out of state media entity hasn't hit this topic yet.

I can not speak for the Tank, but I can give you an out of state, non ESPN related, point of view. I think the state has a responsibility to look out for what is best for the state and its whole population of people before it looks out for a single university such as Uconn. But, Uconn and its alumni and fans in this case, do make up part of that population and this needs to be weighed when considering the following options:

1) Give tax break to ESPN and put no pressure on ESPN to support Uconn

2) Give tax break to ESPN and put pressure on ESPN to support Uconn

3) Offer tax break to ESPN with contingency of ESPN trying to support Uconn

Obviously there is gray area between each of the above and I think the state should put some amount pressure on ESPN to help support Uconn getting into a major conference. But when acting for the best interests of the whole Connecticut population, the state needs to weigh the importance of maintaining a strong relationship with ESPN, it's workers, it's tax revenue, etc. vs the risk of forcing ESPN to relocate its studios in another state. It needs to weigh the financial and economic benefits of every decision its makes.

To try and put myself in your position, I will try to put Pitt and UPMC (a major hospical with close ties to Pitt and the Pittsburgh region) into a similar situation. Pitt is semi private and state affiliated, meaning that they recieve some state funding. In recent years the funding has been significantly decreased. UPMC receives a huge tax break because they file as non-profit but were making a profit. The state and city were threatening to remove the non-profit tag and require UPMC to pay taxes and they threatened to take the business out of the city. The state and city gave in, because this helped save hundreds or thousands of jobs. If I was asked if I would like the state to put pressure on UPMC to pay taxes so Pitt funding could be raised, I would say yes. But if I was asked if I would risk having UPMC move its facilities outside of the city or state so Pitt funding could be raised, I would say no. I know this is not an equal example, but I think sometimes a state and city have very difficult decisions to make, and Connecticut's government may be putting employment and business over athletics.

This is just my opinion as a non-ESPN related and never lived in Connecticut opinion, and feel free to disagree and explain your point of view. I know there are a lot of factors that I did not include above because I did not have the facts. Connecticut general population, percentage of alumni, percentage of fan base, number of Uconn workers, Uconn revenues, Uconn subsidies, ESPN workers, ESPN tax revenue, and many more facts would help create a better picture of the value of ESPN to the state vs having Uconn in a major conference. Lastly, as I said above I think the state can offer tax breaks and still put pressure on ESPN to work with major conferences to add Uconn, and I think the state of Connecticut has failed to do this.
 
Would like to hear Tank's view as an out-of-state person on ESPN's apparent inability/reluctance/refusal to give UConn a hand, especially in light of the recent tax breaks they received from the state. Already had two heated debates on the BY already about this. Sort of surprised a non-ESPN related out of state media entity hasn't hit this topic yet.

A few thoughts about this line of thinking:

I understand why the people here would make that connection since ESPN is right in your backyard. I also understand that most people here will believe that whatever mechanism is used to get UConn into a power conference is an inherently good mechanism, regardless of the consequences of how the sausage is made.

However, I don't think anyone outside of Connecticut is really making the connection between ESPN and the plight of its home state neighbor of UConn... and the thing is that if people actually did, it actually would NOT be favorable to UConn at all. While people might hate ESPN's real or perceived hand in conference realignment and how much it controls the sports world in general, there's some base level rationalization that it's pursuing the maximization of power and profits just like any other corporation. That's not necessarily popular in this increasingly populist political environment, but there's still a certain level of understanding there. On the flip side, if ESPN were found to be pushing UConn to join the ACC (or Big Ten or any other conference) in order to curry political favor for receiving tax breaks from the state of government of Connecticut, then that would be a tstorm beyond belief. It would NOT look good to the rest of the nation for either ESPN or UConn. Once again, you may not care as long as you get into a power conference, but rest assured there would not be ANY sympathy for UConn on the state tax break front. The only thing worse than ESPN meddling with conference affairs for profit is ESPN meddling with conference affairs for political gain.

Plus, you have to look at it like a politician. Within the UConn constituency, gaining entry into a power conference is probably #1, #2 and #3 on the priority list of things that need to get done and you probably believe that politicians in the Connecticut statehouse ought to agree with you, but many worthy causes have failed politically because their respective constituencies don't nearly have as much influence as they'd like to think. (Just look at what happened to all of the proposed gun control measures in Washington with bills that actually polled incredibly well with the general public.) From an economist's standpoint, how much does the state gain by the UConn athletic department receiving $20 million more per year in TV money compared to a more profitable ESPN that adds 100, 200 or 300 more jobs to the state economy (and those people hired in turn pay taxes, buy houses, shop in stores and eat in restaurants, which in turn spurs more job growth)? Is a more flush UConn athletic department really going to spur more job growth or is that money really just going to largely go to a handful of high profile coaches? I'm sure you'll find plenty of professors at UConn itself (much less the general populace that doesn't have any connection to UConn) that would testify that the money in college sports is frivolous and that all of that TV money won't go to furthering the school's academic mission. I'm not saying that I agree with that line of thinking and all of you probably have logical retorts to that argument (e.g. higher profile sports are a way to attract more student applicants with better academic credentials, etc.), but that's an undercurrent that's definitely out there (and I'd imagine that to be the case even more so in an area of the country where Ivy League and private school grads are more highly concentrated compared to the rest of the US).

At the same time, I've worked in corporate law long enough that there is *no* company that's too large to leave where it's based. From my Chicago office, I can see the Boeing headquarters across the street, and that's a company that's many times larger than ESPN (and is even bigger than the entire Disney empire overall) that had a whole lot more sunk physical location costs in the Seattle area compared to what ESPN has in Bristol. Boeing had an open bidding war between several large cities for its headquarters (and on the flip side of the size scale, even companies smaller than ESPN have been able to get major cities to do the same). If there's a location that's cheaper, ESPN can leave a whole lot easier than some people here are giving them credit for (such as expanding ESPN's own facilities in Charlotte, which can offer cheaper land and lower taxes compared to New England). ESPN has the lion's share of the leverage here because absolutely no politician wants to see such a large company with so many jobs leave the state on his/her watch (especially with the current moribund economic conditions).

The upshot is that what might be "obvious" to the commenters on this message board ("ESPN should be doing everything to help a public school in the state that's giving it tax breaks") can be perceived very differently by fans and economists across the country and the politicians and non-UConn-connected citizens of Connecticut. At the end of the day, UConn still needs to show that it's ultimately the best expansion addition to a power conference regardless of political help.
 
I agree with the Tank, that you find most people outside of Connecticut feel that Connecticut's Governement needs to look out for everyone in the state and not put the ESPN tax breaks at stake because of realignment. I do think the state has a commitment to Uconn to help provide political support for the school when needed, including realignment. Virginia meddled in 2003 and VT landed a spot in the ACC. I think the state of Connecticut should do anything to help including suing Pitt and Nordy for turning down the ESPN deal of 14 mil/year. But I think you there is a fine line between helping politically to position Uconn into a major conference, and interferring with ESPN's business practices. I'm not a lawyer, but I think ESPN and Uconn would see expensive lawsuits if it is found that ESPN receives benifits because Uconn is in a major conference.
 
What do you say about Mitch McConnell, Oren Hatch, and the west Virginia, pols getting involved to see to it that the respective schools whose interest they had at heart did not end up getting shitted on in conference realignment? How does the public about that Frank, tell us.

I don't advocate any state pressure that would force jobs to leave the state but lets be serious here, I don't see no one upset about politicians exerting pressure to a particular schools benefit.
 
BTW I truthfully believe if UConn/USF/Cincinnati/AAC Office sued ESPN for tortious interference while it would unlikely see the day of a courtroom it would generate a settlement. As long as the claim survived summary judgment, if the lawsuit got through summary judgment you and the other schools could clearly show damages and if DeFilippio, the 4x4x4 committee members had to give depositions, or left any emails, paper chains it could show what ESPN told or did for to those schools. I think the claim is something to the effect that ESPN told the ACC to blow up the Big East, and while it was within the ACC right to speak with Big East schools, ESPN can't meddle with or retaliate against the conference for turning down a decent offer. Suing ESPN is something I would think has to be considered before any potential SOL has expired.
 
A few thoughts about this line of thinking:

I understand why the people here would make that connection since ESPN is right in your backyard. I also understand that most people here will believe that whatever mechanism is used to get UConn into a power conference is an inherently good mechanism, regardless of the consequences of how the sausage is made.

However, I don't think anyone outside of Connecticut is really making the connection between ESPN and the plight of its home state neighbor of UConn... and the thing is that if people actually did, it actually would NOT be favorable to UConn at all. While people might hate ESPN's real or perceived hand in conference realignment and how much it controls the sports world in general, there's some base level rationalization that it's pursuing the maximization of power and profits just like any other corporation. That's not necessarily popular in this increasingly populist political environment, but there's still a certain level of understanding there. On the flip side, if ESPN were found to be pushing UConn to join the ACC (or Big Ten or any other conference) in order to curry political favor for receiving tax breaks from the state of government of Connecticut, then that would be a tstorm beyond belief. It would NOT look good to the rest of the nation for either ESPN or UConn. Once again, you may not care as long as you get into a power conference, but rest assured there would not be ANY sympathy for UConn on the state tax break front. The only thing worse than ESPN meddling with conference affairs for profit is ESPN meddling with conference affairs for political gain.

Plus, you have to look at it like a politician. Within the UConn constituency, gaining entry into a power conference is probably #1, #2 and #3 on the priority list of things that need to get done and you probably believe that politicians in the Connecticut statehouse ought to agree with you, but many worthy causes have failed politically because their respective constituencies don't nearly have as much influence as they'd like to think. (Just look at what happened to all of the proposed gun control measures in Washington with bills that actually polled incredibly well with the general public.) From an economist's standpoint, how much does the state gain by the UConn athletic department receiving $20 million more per year in TV money compared to a more profitable ESPN that adds 100, 200 or 300 more jobs to the state economy (and those people hired in turn pay taxes, buy houses, shop in stores and eat in restaurants, which in turn spurs more job growth)? Is a more flush UConn athletic department really going to spur more job growth or is that money really just going to largely go to a handful of high profile coaches? I'm sure you'll find plenty of professors at UConn itself (much less the general populace that doesn't have any connection to UConn) that would testify that the money in college sports is frivolous and that all of that TV money won't go to furthering the school's academic mission. I'm not saying that I agree with that line of thinking and all of you probably have logical retorts to that argument (e.g. higher profile sports are a way to attract more student applicants with better academic credentials, etc.), but that's an undercurrent that's definitely out there (and I'd imagine that to be the case even more so in an area of the country where Ivy League and private school grads are more highly concentrated compared to the rest of the US).

At the same time, I've worked in corporate law long enough that there is *no* company that's too large to leave where it's based. From my Chicago office, I can see the Boeing headquarters across the street, and that's a company that's many times larger than ESPN (and is even bigger than the entire Disney empire overall) that had a whole lot more sunk physical location costs in the Seattle area compared to what ESPN has in Bristol. Boeing had an open bidding war between several large cities for its headquarters (and on the flip side of the size scale, even companies smaller than ESPN have been able to get major cities to do the same). If there's a location that's cheaper, ESPN can leave a whole lot easier than some people here are giving them credit for (such as expanding ESPN's own facilities in Charlotte, which can offer cheaper land and lower taxes compared to New England). ESPN has the lion's share of the leverage here because absolutely no politician wants to see such a large company with so many jobs leave the state on his/her watch (especially with the current moribund economic conditions).

The upshot is that what might be "obvious" to the commenters on this message board ("ESPN should be doing everything to help a public school in the state that's giving it tax breaks") can be perceived very differently by fans and economists across the country and the politicians and non-UConn-connected citizens of Connecticut. At the end of the day, UConn still needs to show that it's ultimately the best expansion addition to a power conference regardless of political help.

Spot on. Completely agree that overt favoritism towards UConn would look very bad.

And for those who don't think ESPN would leave because of proximity to NY and Boston (which is a value for them) think long and hard about the value to Disney of putting ESPN HQ in Anaheim or Orlando, and turning it into the centerpiece of a sports themed attraction/park. If Disney hasn't considered that even under the current scenario, they are morons.

I don't understand our fixation on ESPN. Did they not offer the Big East a contract that UConn would love to have today? Why do that if they had any hostile intent at the outset? With respect to Pitt, I don't think ESPN cared whether the ACC took UConn or Pitt, but there were objections to UConn and none to Pitt, so decision made.
 
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