First Openly Gay NFL player comes out

[Waquoit]

I hope that's not a bad (and terribly unfunny) attempt at humor.

Could have been worse, he could have said wide receiver.

 

[Waquoit]

Doubtful it fizzles like Teo's girlfriend. She didn't exist. This is a player characteristic that will never go away.

Remember, the NFL is the league where Doug Williams was famously asked how long he has been a black quarterback before Super Bowl XXII. The NFL needed a rule to ensure minority coaches get an opportunity to be interviewed for head coaching openings. The NFL may make the most of their marketing opportunities and be the best of the league to quell controversy (or sweep it under the rug), but it is still a Good Ol' Boys network and at the end of the day, the last thing a coach or GM wants in the locker room is a distraction. The degree to which this issue goes away is dependent directly on how good Sam performs.

I pretty much disagree with everything you say here. Black QB's aren't remotely an issue anymore. Same with black coaches, Romeo Crennel has been hired twice. I'm especially not buying that "the degree to which this issue goes away is dependent directly on how good Sam performs." If he sucks are you saying that will be a referendum on gays in football? I don't think so. This courageous guy has broken the ice and there's no turning back. The big story will be how little the story actually is.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Doubtful it fizzles like Teo's girlfriend. She didn't exist. This is a player characteristic that will never go away.

Remember, the NFL is the league where Doug Williams was famously asked how long he has been a black quarterback before Super Bowl XXII. The NFL needed a rule to ensure minority coaches get an opportunity to be interviewed for head coaching openings. The NFL may make the most of their marketing opportunities and be the best of the league to quell controversy (or sweep it under the rug), but it is still a Good Ol' Boys network and at the end of the day, the last thing a coach or GM wants in the locker room is a distraction. The degree to which this issue goes away is dependent directly on how good Sam performs.

Disagree on a few points.

I don't think this will be an issue INSIDE the locker room.

The distraction will be the hundreds of cameras that will follow this guy around everywhere he goes. Media members asking his teammates their feelings on the matter, etc.

How this kid performs on the field will have ZERO impact on when this story goes away.

 

[Husky25]

Disagree on a few points.

I don't think this will be an issue INSIDE the locker room.

The distraction will be the hundreds of cameras that will follow this guy around everywhere he goes. Media members asking his teammates their feelings on the matter, etc.

How this kid performs on the field will have ZERO impact on when this story goes away.

All du respect Jimmy, given the fall out of the Incognito/Martin case, I think it's a safe bet that NONE of us know how it will play in an NFL Locker room.

I pretty much disagree with everything you say here. Black QB's aren't remotely an issue anymore. Same with black coaches, Romeo Crennel has been hired twice.

Crennel is anecdotal evidence at best. So is Jim Caldwell (named in the linked story), but Coaches Dungy and Edwards disagree with you:

"Edwards said he wonders whether minority candidates get interviewed only to satisfy the rule, even though they have no chance of getting the job. He and Dungy noted that the last black head coach hiring -- other than coaches promoted from within, such as Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Mike Singletary, Hue Jackson and Crennel -- was Mike Tomlin by Pittsburgh in 2007.

...
"I am not saying you have to hire a minority candidate. No one is saying that," Edwards said. "I am saying you can't be blinded. It can't be, 'Who is the guy to interview to get this out of the way?' "
"The problem I have is you don't really abide by the Rooney Rule the correct way," he said."

Say what you will about the rule itself. The fact that it exists in the first place is indicative enough that black coaches are still very much an issue.

I'm especially not buying that "the degree to which this issue goes away is dependent directly on how good Sam performs." If he sucks are you saying that will be a referendum on gays in football? I don't think so. This courageous guy has broken the ice and there's no turning back. The big story will be how little the story actually is.

I have no intention of getting in your craw and I hope it doesn't come down to that, but I'm not so naïve to think others don't think that way. I hate referring back to race, but it's the only thing even remotely comparable. Ask yourself when did Donovan McNabb seize being a black QB and become just another a QB? The mere fact that Russell Wilson, the second African-American QB to win a Super Bowl, wasn't really referred to as such (that I heard, at least. though I didn't really pay much attention) is a testament to how far society has come in 27 years...but it still took 27 years and is still on going...

Maybe not publically (like Limbaugh did vis a vie McNabb), but I can see where there will be the question by some if Sam is cut: Was it because of performance on the field, team chemistry, or otherwise? Chris Klewe wasn't a great punter, but he wasn't bad either. Did he not have a job in the NFL last year because GMs and coaches thought a personality trait (i.e. outspokenness on a "taboo" topic) may be a distraction (He thinks so)? There are less than 62 people who know for sure.

 

[ZooCougar]

Disagree on a few points.

I don't think this will be an issue INSIDE the locker room.

The distraction will be the hundreds of cameras that will follow this guy around everywhere he goes. Media members asking his teammates their feelings on the matter, etc.

How this kid performs on the field will have ZERO impact on when this story goes away.

This will be a 90% media and outside the locker room issue.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

All du respect Jimmy, given the fall out of the Incognito/Martin case, I think it's a safe bet that NONE of us know how it will play in an NFL Locker room.



Crennel is anecdotal evidence at best. So is Jim Caldwell (named in the linked story), but Coaches Dungy and Edwards disagree with you:

"Edwards said he wonders whether minority candidates get interviewed only to satisfy the rule, even though they have no chance of getting the job. He and Dungy noted that the last black head coach hiring -- other than coaches promoted from within, such as Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Mike Singletary, Hue Jackson and Crennel -- was Mike Tomlin by Pittsburgh in 2007.

...
"I am not saying you have to hire a minority candidate. No one is saying that," Edwards said. "I am saying you can't be blinded. It can't be, 'Who is the guy to interview to get this out of the way?' "
"The problem I have is you don't really abide by the Rooney Rule the correct way," he said."

Say what you will about the rule itself. The fact that it exists in the first place is indicative enough that black coaches are still very much an issue.



I have no intention of getting in your craw and I hope it doesn't come down to that, but I'm not so naïve to think others don't think that way. I hate referring back to race, but it's the only thing even remotely comparable. Ask yourself when did Donovan McNabb seize being a black QB and become just another a QB? The mere fact that Russell Wilson, the second African-American QB to win a Super Bowl, wasn't really referred to as such (that I heard, at least. though I didn't really pay much attention) is a testament to how far society has come in 27 years...but it still took 27 years and is still on going...

Maybe not publically (like Limbaugh did vis a vie McNabb), but I can see where there will be the question by some if Sam is cut: Was it because of performance on the field, team chemistry, or otherwise? Chris Klewe wasn't a great punter, but he wasn't bad either. Did he not have a job in the NFL last year because GMs and coaches thought a personality trait (i.e. outspokenness on a "taboo" topic) may be a distraction (He thinks so)? There are less than 62 people who know for sure.

Given what's come out, I believe that Jonathan Martin is just a .

I think Zoo hit this on the head. Almost all of the NFL players are in their 20's/early 30's. Being gay just isn't the big deal that it was 30 or 40 years ago. To the older guys that will write about this, it was a big taboo. This guy came out to his team before last season and has claimed to have everyone's full support without incident. There may be a few isolated incidents with some meatheads but for every Riley Cooper there are hundreds of others who will support the guy.

The Rooney Rule, much like most other affirmative action policy, is deeply flawed. But that's for another day.

 

[ZooCougar]

All du respect Jimmy, given the fall out of the Incognito/Martin case, I think it's a safe bet that NONE of us know how it will play in an NFL Locker room.



Crennel is anecdotal evidence at best. So is Jim Caldwell (named in the linked story), but Coaches Dungy and Edwards disagree with you:

"Edwards said he wonders whether minority candidates get interviewed only to satisfy the rule, even though they have no chance of getting the job. He and Dungy noted that the last black head coach hiring -- other than coaches promoted from within, such as Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Mike Singletary, Hue Jackson and Crennel -- was Mike Tomlin by Pittsburgh in 2007.

...
"I am not saying you have to hire a minority candidate. No one is saying that," Edwards said. "I am saying you can't be blinded. It can't be, 'Who is the guy to interview to get this out of the way?' "
"The problem I have is you don't really abide by the Rooney Rule the correct way," he said."

Say what you will about the rule itself. The fact that it exists in the first place is indicative enough that black coaches are still very much an issue.



I have no intention of getting in your craw and I hope it doesn't come down to that, but I'm not so naïve to think others don't think that way. I hate referring back to race, but it's the only thing even remotely comparable. Ask yourself when did Donovan McNabb seize being a black QB and become just another a QB? The mere fact that Russell Wilson, the second African-American QB to win a Super Bowl, wasn't really referred to as such (that I heard, at least. though I didn't really pay much attention) is a testament to how far society has come in 27 years...but it still took 27 years and is still on going...

Maybe not publically (like Limbaugh did vis a vie McNabb), but I can see where there will be the question by some if Sam is cut: Was it because of performance on the field, team chemistry, or otherwise? Chris Klewe wasn't a great punter, but he wasn't bad either. Did he not have a job in the NFL last year because GMs and coaches thought a personality trait (i.e. outspokenness on a "taboo" topic) may be a distraction (He thinks so)? There are less than 62 people who know for sure.

Rooney rule exists sheerly for political correctness, and I think it is a decent rule. And no Crennel and Caldwell getting hired twice is not anecdotal. That's a hilarious assertion.

 

[Husky25]

Given what's come out, I believe that Jonathan Martin is just a .

I think Zoo hit this on the head. Almost all of the NFL players are in their 20's/early 30's. Being gay just isn't the big deal that it was 30 or 40 years ago. To the older guys that will write about this, it was a big taboo. This guy came out to his team before last season and has claimed to have everyone's full support without incident. There may be a few isolated incidents with some meatheads but for every Riley Cooper there are hundreds of others who will support the guy.

The Rooney Rule, much like most other affirmative action policy, is deeply flawed. But that's for another day.

That may very well be the problem teams face. Through no fault of his own, Sam becomes a distraction. At that point his production on the field must outweigh whatever distraction he introduces into the locker room. I hope his teammates are cool and avert any questions and diffuse the issue, but I still think a good portion of that hinges on his productivity.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This will be a 90% media and outside the locker room issue.

I think you guys have a very northeastern, secular, largely liberal outlook on things if you believe that. The NFL is filled with southern baptists, and other evangelicals, both black and white. Not only that, it is testosterone central. If you think that every guy, or even 90% of the guys in the NFL want an openly gay man taking communal showers with them, I think you are in for a surprise. It can be overcome, but it will impact a locker room.

It's true that most younger people are pretty accepting of homosexuality, but then again, they mostly aren't showering with those guys and engaging in constant physical contact with them either. It isn't the same. Success of this will be on Sam, ultimately. He needs to make sure his teammates feel comfortable.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I think you guys have a very northeastern, secular, largely liberal outlook on things if you believe that. The NFL is filled with southern baptists, and other evangelicals, both black and white. Not only that, it is testosterone central. If you think that every guy, or even 90% of the guys in the NFL want an openly gay man taking communal showers with them, I think you are in for a surprise. It can be overcome, but it will impact a locker room.

It's true that most younger people are pretty accepting of homos e xuality, but then again, they mostly aren't showering with those guys and engaging in constant physical contact with them either. It isn't the same. Success of this will be on Sam, ultimately. He needs to make sure his teammates feel comfortable.

Yep. Zoo and I are both northeastern bleeding heart liberals.

 

[Husky25]

Rooney rule exists sheerly for political correctness, and I think it is a decent rule. And no Crennel and Caldwell getting hired twice is not anecdotal. That's a hilarious assertion.

Are you refuting my point or agreeing with it? I never gave my opinion of the rule (good, bad or indifferent. I made mention to it in response that black coaches are not an issue anymore. If that is the case, then the Rooney Rule would not be necessary. The article indicates that it is not only necessary, but probably needs to be broadened and strengthened.

For the record, I happen to not agree with the premise of the rule, but I believe it is necessary. I think organizations do very well interview the token candidate without a single notion of hiring him. Think Steve Mariucci in Detroit all those many moons ago. Therefore I believe the rule needs to be adjusted.

BTW, Caldwell is only a one-time head coach, but probably deserves to be again. I don't believe he deserved to be fired, given the team with which he had to work.

 

[BlueMAB]

Zoo and Jimmy northeastern liberals? LMAO.

Somebody needs to say it.

The NFL is predominantly black, and the black community has been much less eager to accept h o m o s e x u a l i t y. For numerous reasons, some religious, some having to do with growing up in tougher urban environments where perceived weaknesses (I'm not calling g a y s weak, I'm saying it is perceived as a weakness) can be a real problem for kids growing up. For whatever reason, it's less accepted in the urban/black culture.

I'm not saying all black people hate g a y s. But I don't think it's a coincidence that UConn's hockey team (a predominantly white sport) was the first college team (that I know of) to come out in support of g a y s. I could be wrong, just my opinion from my perspective.

I think it depends on the locker room, and the leadership. But he will certainly have a tougher time than the average NFL rookie, if nothing more than the sideshow and the pressure.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think you guys have a very northeastern, secular, largely liberal outlook on things if you believe that. The NFL is filled with southern baptists, and other evangelicals, both black and white. Not only that, it is testosterone central. If you think that every guy, or even 90% of the guys in the NFL want an openly gay man taking communal showers with them, I think you are in for a surprise. It can be overcome, but it will impact a locker room.

It's true that most younger people are pretty accepting of homos e xuality, but then again, they mostly aren't showering with those guys and engaging in constant physical contact with them either. It isn't the same. Success of this will be on Sam, ultimately. He needs to make sure his teammates feel comfortable.

I liked this mainly for the sheer wrongness of it.

 

[ZooCougar]

Are you refuting my point or agreeing with it? I never gave my opinion of the rule (good, bad or indifferent. I made mention to it in response that black coaches are not an issue anymore. If that is the case, then the Rooney Rule would not be necessary. The article indicates that it is not only necessary, but probably needs to be broadened and strengthened.

For the record, I happen to not agree with the premise of the rule, but I believe it is necessary. I think organizations do very well interview the token candidate without a single notion of hiring him. Think Steve Mariucci in Detroit all those many moons ago. Therefore I believe the rule needs to be adjusted.

BTW, Caldwell is only a one-time head coach, but probably deserves to be again. I don't believe he deserved to be fired, given the team with which he had to work.

Caldwell was a HC at Wake Forest, was a HC at Indianapolis and is now the HC of the Lions. It's hardly anecdotal.

 

[Husky25]

Caldwell was a HC at Wake Forest, was a HC at Indianapolis and is now the HC of the Lions. It's hardly anecdotal.

The Rooney Rule does not apply to college and it also was not in effect until 2003. Caldwell's non-NFL experience is not germane to the discussion. I forgot that he was hired in Detroit for this upcoming year. That's on me. Be that as it may, he still should not have been fired in Indy. Caldwell did exactly what was expected...nay...required of him (i.e. put the team in a position to replace Peyton Manning).

 

[ZooCougar]

The Rooney Rule does not apply to college and it also was not in effect until 2003. Caldwell's non-NFL experience is not germane to the discussion. I forgot that he was hired in Detroit for this upcoming year. That's on me. Be that as it may, he still should not have been fired in Indy. Caldwell did exactly what was expected...nay...required of him (i.e. put the team in a position to replace Peyton Manning).

I think Indy wanted a blank slate. It's a tough business. It is germane to the discussion because in some respects the best qualification to be a head coach is having been a head coach before.

 

[Husky25]

I think Indy wanted a blank slate. It's a tough business. It is germane to the discussion because in some respects the best qualification to be a head coach is having been a head coach before.

I get that. I don't dispute it, but I doubt Caldwell gets a fair shake in Indy without the Rooney Rule. According to the article I linked earlier, There were 6 instances of a minority head coach in the 80 years prior to the implementation of the Rooney rule. There were 12 from 2003 up to the publishing of that article.

 

[Waquoit]

I doubt Caldwell gets a fair shake in Indy without the Rooney Rule. .

Nah, the Rooney Rule had nothing to with that hire or any hire. It's just eye-wash.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I get that. I don't dispute it, but I doubt Caldwell gets a fair shake in Indy without the Rooney Rule. According to the article I linked earlier, There were 6 instances of a minority head coach in the 80 years prior to the implementation of the Rooney rule. There were 12 from 2003 up to the publishing of that article.

Why do you doubt Caldwell gets a fair shake in Indy without the Rooney Rule? Don't you think the social environment had more to do with those numbers than some dopey rule that was implemented? I mean up until 50 years ago we had separate bathrooms for blacks and whites.

 

[Dooley]

Good for Sam. I hope he gets drafted and has a very successful career. I think the best reaction I heard from this came from a Tweet by Donte Stallworth who said that if Sam's being gay is a locker room distraction on your team, then your team is probably not very good to begin with. I completely agree. If Sam can play and is a good teammate, then gender preference should have absolutely no bearing.

 

[intlzncster]

Are you refuting my point or agreeing with it? I never gave my opinion of the rule (good, bad or indifferent. I made mention to it in response that black coaches are not an issue anymore. If that is the case, then the Rooney Rule would not be necessary. The article indicates that it is not only necessary, but probably needs to be broadened and strengthened.

For the record, I happen to not agree with the premise of the rule, but I believe it is necessary. I think organizations do very well interview the token candidate without a single notion of hiring him. Think Steve Mariucci in Detroit all those many moons ago. Therefore I believe the rule needs to be adjusted.

BTW, Caldwell is only a one-time head coach, but probably deserves to be again. I don't believe he deserved to be fired, given the team with which he had to work.

Not to hijack (ok, but to hijack), but the Rooney Rule, while maybe well intentioned, is pretty crap on the face of it. If you want to increase the number of opportunities for black HCs, you've got to increase the number of quality candidates. That means focusing at the coordinator level (and below). New HCs are generally very successful O or D coordinators. Get more black O and D coordinators, and there you go.

On Sam, it's going to depend on the specific locker room, if the GM that picks him knows his team, he'll be all right.

 

[Husky25]

While I'd love to think that change in the social dynamic is more responsible, six hiring in 80 years vs. 14 since 2003 indicates otherwise.

 

[ZooCougar]

I doubt homophobes have much to fear about a homosexual in their locker rooms since they are ineligible receivers.

 

[sportsart]

JJ got it right. Who knew.... JJ went to Mizzo.....

http://www.courant.com/sports/football/hc-jacobs-column-0211-20140210,0,742645.column

 

[noeynox]

Getting back to my earlier post, ball busting in NFL locker room seems to have no boundries. Rookies are hazed mercilessly. In Sam's case will players hold back because of his sexuality? Will his sexuality be off limits to jokes? Why? Would a player who bangs fat chicks not get his stones busted over it? If he doesn't get drafted, was it because he came out and teams don't want to deal with the distractions that come with that? I don't know the answers, I also wonder how the NFL's bible thumping sector will react. You see a lot of players kneeling holding hands in prayers. Traditionally, people with deep religous views haven't been the most welcoming of gays. There will be some issues for sure, but not any that I don't think will be overcome with time. If it goes over well, I think you may see some established players feel comfortable enough to come out. Doubt there aren't some gay players in the NFL playing right now.

 

[BlueMAB]

While I'd love to think that change in the social dynamic is more responsible, six hiring in 80 years vs. 14 since 2003 indicates otherwise.

For argument's sake, what rule was instituted to get Obama elected in 2008 and 2012?

 

[BlueMAB]

 

[sportsart]

Getting back to my earlier post, ball busting in NFL locker room seems to have no boundries. Rookies are hazed mercilessly. In Sam's case will players hold back because of his s e xuality? Will his s e xuality be off limits to jokes? Why? Would a player who bangs fat chicks not get his stones busted over it? If he doesn't get drafted, was it because he came out and teams don't want to deal with the distractions that come with that? I don't know the answers, I also wonder how the NFL's bible thumping sector will react. You see a lot of players kneeling holding hands in prayers. Traditionally, people with deep religous views haven't been the most welcoming of gays. There will be some issues for sure, but not any that I don't think will be overcome with time. If it goes over well, I think you may see some established players feel comfortable enough to come out. Doubt there aren't some gay players in the NFL playing right now.

I hold out hope that there are more Donald Browns in the NFL than the people you described. I can picture Donald welcoming him to whatever locker room he ends up in, in 2014. All you need are few MEN to step forward, like Donald, and the children will shut up.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

While I'd love to think that change in the social dynamic is more responsible, six hiring in 80 years vs. 14 since 2003 indicates otherwise.

Ok then, how many NFL HC jobs were there 80 years ago vs today? Heck how many black NFL players were there 80 years ago?

 

[Husky25]

For argument's sake, what rule was instituted to get Obama elected in 2008 and 2012?

If you can't see that is an apple/orange comparison, it's not worth dignifying it with a response. Not biting.