Final Four - Is this fair?

[meyers7]

Actually, I think the parity among the middle ranks is being achieved. I do not fault them for that based on how the their protocol is to determine the seedings-NET and Conference Tournament results. Creighton played a very good OOC and did get eliminated in the 1st game in the BET. Where they got lucky was being put into a region with a team they knew well. SD also played a strong OOC and knew what they needed to improve upon during the season.

Doesn't matter the why, if they did a perfect job of seeding, then the games would follow the chalk.

 

[shiverz45]

Only partially true. I have a friend who coaches at a mid-major. There they assign each team to one of the assistants to start the scouting reports for each team. I'm guessing by the time the game even tips tonight, their opponent will have a pretty good amount of work done in having the scout and game plan ready for whoever they are going to play.

It is interesting to look at it the other way. The teams playing tonight do know who the opponent will be in case of a win and can have someone working today on the scout.

I don't think it offers much of an advantage, the players will be fully refreshed by Friday either way, but makes me wonder when teams will travel and whatnot. Do they all go Wednesday or do they travel to the site Thursday morning? Either way, since the game is in Bridgeport it's a lot easier for UConn. NC State having to travel home then turn right around a day later would be a bit of a pain.

SC is flying out Tuesday. At least that is what I thought Dawn said when asked.

 

[shiverz45]

Unless they play all Elite Eight games at the same exact time - would fanbases be happy with this? - then they have to play one at a time. And if this is what has to happen, then it should go in order of 1) overall #1 or highest overall Seed, 2) next highest overall Seed, 3) next highest overall Seed, 4) lowest overall Seed left to play.

That appears to be exactly how they scheduled it:

1st Game: South Carolina (overall #1 Seed)
2nd Game: Stanford (overall #2 Seed)
3rd Game: NC State (overall #3 Seed)
4th Game: Louisville (overall #4 Seed).......

I think this had to do more with time zone than anything else.

 

[Urshurak]

I think it's about time zones and TV Schedules. I'm about 99.9999999% sure that "fairness" was not a consideration. Life isn't fair. Time to play.

 

[Bama fan]

I always defended UCONN getting the extra day because their top ranking earned it. So it would be hypocritical to complain when other top ranked teams get the extra day.

Unfortunately, in today's America, hypocrisy is not a thing anymore. But I appreciate your honesty. Wait, maybe that's not a thing anymore either.

 

[DefenseBB]

Doesn't matter the why, if they did a perfect job of seeding, then the games would follow the chalk.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Life aint fair so I'm pretty certain basketball scheduling doesn't have to be. lol

 

[jaydee602]

Please move along, there is nothing to see here so just stop with all the conspiracy theories. I, for one, think the NCAAT got most of the seedings and regions correctly assigned. Attendance was up and most people have stopped whining about the NC St region placement (all except Deb Antonelli who kept making the point that UConn was favored tonight without maybe stating because UConn is playing better).

Deb Antonelli also neglects to mention that she graduated from NC State & is showing her bias in her comments. Innocent oversight, I'm sure!

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Deb Antonelli also neglects to mention that she graduated from NC State & is showing her bias in her comments. Innocent oversight, I'm sure!

??? Everyone knows Debbie played for Kay Yow at NC State. It is one of her "calling cards" if you will, mentioned at least once every game, I swear.

Yes, I agree that she has a bias. They probably all do, for one team or another. It affects how the announcers view different teams. Generally, it isn't too obvious on national telecasts.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Doesn't matter the why, if they did a perfect job of seeding, then the games would follow the chalk.

Nope. That's why they play the games, as an old Rutgers fan, long deceased, used to proclaim whenever anyone suggested Rutgers (or the opponent) should win or lose a particular game.

I stick by what I've said, the gap between the top couple lines and the rest is, well, significant.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Only partially true. I have a friend who coaches at a mid-major. There they assign each team to one of the assistants to start the scouting reports for each team. I'm guessing by the time the game even tips tonight, their opponent will have a pretty good amount of work done in having the scout and game plan ready for whoever they are going to play.

It is interesting to look at it the other way. The teams playing tonight do know who the opponent will be in case of a win and can have someone working today on the scout.

I don't think it offers much of an advantage, the players will be fully refreshed by Friday either way, but makes me wonder when teams will travel and whatnot. Do they all go Wednesday or do they travel to the site Thursday morning? Either way, since the game is in Bridgeport it's a lot easier for UConn. NC State having to travel home then turn right around a day later would be a bit of a pain.

Travel is all determined by the NCAA for the tournament.

Back in 2000, when Rutgers won the Portland Regional, the team they defeated, Georgia, was charted home to Athens by the NCAA in spite of losing, while Rutgers had to fly commercial to Newark. The coaching staff (including Viv) were on our flight, however the team was on a different one. Led to the saying "NCAA = no charter airline available". Details have changed since then, but the concept of when you will be where and how you get there are still, for the tourney, under the NCAA's control.

Actually, throughout the season, the NCAA rules control when you can arrive, how long you can stay, and all that for away games and such. However, they have less of a say in the details of where you stay and how you travel, although I believe they operate the travel agency teams use.

 

[Oldbones]

Ummm, haven't there been more upsets this year than in years past??? That would mean they're worst job ever.

Ummmmm(5 of them!) there are 4 1s, a 2 and a 3 still standing. That's not bad seeding IMO. Isn't the idea of the seeding to not have top teams not meet each other too early?

 

[nwhoopfan]

You can't really game plan until you know who you are playing.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, so everybody is in the same boat. 3 days vs. 4 days of rest really seems like a non factor, unless someone is trying to rehab a nagging injury.

 

[Jmsdawg]

So Stanford and South Carolina get an extra day of rest before the Final Four. And they don't play each other. Is this fair? Is this the way it has worked in the past? Seems to me the two teams that won Sunday should play each other, and the two teams that win Monday should play each other. What do others think?

I want to see UConn play the best teams, IMO, Stanford and SC are both great teams and I really believe any of those three could beat the other on any given night. However, if UConn does win the NC there will be no doubt they are the best team in the country.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Ummm, haven't there been more upsets this year than in years past??? That would mean they're worst job ever.

No, that would mean March Madness has finally come to the women game. Teams just give it all they have during tournament time and I love it!

 

[Sifaka]

Deb Antonelli also neglects to mention that she graduated from NC State & is showing her bias in her comments. Innocent oversight, I'm sure!

Degree in Raucous Balderdash.

 

[Bonamassa]

Nothing to complain about when the team is playing to reach the final four without leaving CT.

 

[Stymie]

No, that would mean March Madness has finally come to the women game. Teams just give it all they have during tournament time and I love it!

....and that’s why it is my favorite sport season of the year.
Nothing like one and done to fire up elite, amateur athletes.
Just by the basic numbers, for 25% of the players, the NEXT loss is their last collegiate game.
The desire and the emotion is palpable.
Anyone watch the post game presser after SF lost to UCONN?
Very real.

 

[Alydar]

well they were ranked the 1st and 2nd overall seed so that is the perks you get.

When it was pointed out that most years UConn "earned" any advantage they had the response was "it doesn't matter, it was still unfair". The teams earned their advantage through seeding. There are no other perks, or at least there shouldn't be.
UConn plays tonight, and if they win they rest tomorrow and then have one day to prepare before leaving for Minn. Thur. Geno has said that once at the site there is no time for serious practices.
So 2 teams get twice the prep time of the other 2 teams. I say so what but

 

[Greg]

So Stanford and South Carolina get an extra day of rest before the Final Four. And they don't play each other. Is this fair? Is this the way it has worked in the past? Seems to me the two teams that won Sunday should play each other, and the two teams that win Monday should play each other. What do others think?

When I saw the title thread I thought you were complaining that UCONN gets 4 tourney games in CT.

 

[ritarivas89]

Fair. 1 less day on one hand. In the other: Home crowd advantage over 1 seed NC State. This minor stuff balances out.

So Stanford and South Carolina get an extra day of rest before the Final Four. And they don't play each other. Is this fair? Is this the way it has worked in the past? Seems to me the two teams that won Sunday should play each other, and the two teams that win Monday should play each other. What do others think?

 

[HopJim]

Fair. 1 less day on one hand. In the other: Home crowd advantage over 1 seed NC State. This minor stuff balances out.

UConn's energy has got to be at an all-time high. Get them in the gym asap for the next game.

 

[ochoopsfan]

NCAA helps UConn out by making their game. the late game on Friday Night

 

[meyers7]

Nope. That's why they play the games, as an old Rutgers fan, long deceased, used to proclaim whenever anyone suggested Rutgers (or the opponent) should win or lose a particular game.

I stick by what I've said, the gap between the top couple lines and the rest is, well, significant.

No, that would mean March Madness has finally come to the women game. Teams just give it all they have during tournament time and I love it!

It would seem there are quite a few on here who do not understand what "seeding" means.

I realize message boards don't attract the brightest, but I mean come on. I didn't realize we were this bad.

 

[faithfulfan]

So Stanford and South Carolina get an extra day of rest before the Final Four. And they don't play each other. Is this fair? Is this the way it has worked in the past? Seems to me the two teams that won Sunday should play each other, and the two teams that win Monday should play each other. What do others think?

UCONN has an excellent chance to win it all, no other team can boast 3- #1 high school recruits, we've got the talent!

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

It would seem there are quite a few on here who do not understand what "seeding" means.

I realize message boards don't attract the brightest, but I mean come on. I didn't realize we were this bad.

Of course they make mistakes seeding. Creighton way under-seeded. My team, Arizona, over-seeded. At least in my opinion. I'm not defending the accuracy of the seeding for virtually any sport.

But - you seem to be saying that if they are seeded correctly there are no upsets. If that is the case, then lets just declare South Carolina (or whoever you think is the #1 team) the champion and not play the games. Teams can be seeded correctly and pull the upset.

I followed Rutgers for years. I do not believe that Rutgers was ever a better team or better coached than UConn (sorry, other Rutgers fans). But we won 5 games in like 3 years. How did that happen if you don't believe that upsets can happen, even when teams are correctly seeded.

 

[meyers7]

But - you seem to be saying that if they are seeded correctly there are no upsets.

No, not saying that at all. Although true. My point was the flip side of that. I'm trying to say (and obviously I either suck at saying it or it's going over many people's heads) is that IF the tournament held to chalk, then it would be a perfectly seeded tournament. The more it strays from chalk, the worse the seeding was.

AND, since this tournament has had quite a few (seems more than normal) upsets, it was one of the poorer seeded tournaments. However, we are still getting 1,1,1,2 in the FF. So they did pretty well at the top.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

No, not saying that at all. Although true. My point was the flip side of that. I'm trying to say (and obviously I either suck at saying it or it's going over many people's heads) is that IF the tournament held to chalk, then it would be a perfectly seeded tournament. The more it strays from chalk, the worse the seeding was.

AND, since this tournament has had quite a few (seems more than normal) upsets, it was one of the poorer seeded tournaments. However, we are still getting 1,1,1,2 in the FF. So they did pretty well at the top.

Ok, got you. True on what perfect seeding means. Agree that - on the whole - the more it strays the more likely seeding had mistakes, however:

"The more it strays from chalk, the worse the seeding was" might be arguably true, but it would require some qualification. The wins of 2 lower seeded teams, such as Creighton or South Dakota might suggest under-seeding, but there was really nothing in their records that could have produced them seeded in the top 16, where this would be chalk. Similarly, it is often said, the 4/5, 8/9 matchups are toss-ups. In many cases, there really isn't a lot of difference between teams on those lines and I would be hard put to call it "bad seeding" across the board if upsets occur along those lines.

But as you say, if there are upsets everywhere, one could indeed argue that there were significant seeding errors.