Fewer Women Coaches In College Basketball Now Than A Decade Ago | The Boneyard

Fewer Women Coaches In College Basketball Now Than A Decade Ago

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That is particularly strange considering the large majority of assistant coaches are women. I would be interested in knowing where do new coaches come from. Were they men's or women's assistants, WNBA, high school, AAU, or international?

I just hope it isn't something as stupid as every AD is looking for the next "Geno". The next "Geno" could just as easily be a women.
 
Gus Mahler said:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/sports/
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Some people just try to stir things up. I don't really notice. How many of those male coaches are bald? What is the ratio of male-female in assistant coaches? How many men coaches don't wear ties any more? How many women coaches wear slacks instead of dresses or skirts?
Are most cheerleaders still female? What is the ratio of announcers, M-F?
 
It is called money. The disparity between men's and women's basketball coaches pay is certainly not evened out, but the pay when Geno started coaching for women's coaches meant you had to be pretty desperate to consider it as a good career move. Now D1 college salaries start at a really good number and go up to millions. And lower levels of college positions generally are good living wages. So financially it is much more attractive for any gender 'head of household' to pursue. Something that was not true 20 years ago.

And the pool of candidates for coaching positions are kids that take sports really seriously as fans or participants (even if they never are able to get to the top levels in college or as professionals.) And while female participation in organized sports has risen to close to male levels (51 % to 58%) there is not the same level of obsessive fandom - that generally breaks around 32% for females and 70% for males. There are more male ex-pro athletes, more males obsessed with sport, more fathers choosing to start coaching their kids than mothers, so just a larger group that has an propensity toward coaching.

In looking at education - BAs, MAs, and PhDs in both sports related majors and Education Department degrees for teaching physical education and for coaching break about 65/35 male female - the science aspects - kinesiology, and sports sciences break the other way 47/53

One thing I never see when these stories get broadcast is absolute numbers of coaching positions for college sports by gender, because I suspect there has been a huge shift there since title IX - to balance out scholarships (football mostly) most universities significantly reduced the number of male sports teams, and in some cases added additional sports for women. That would suggest that some male coaches in order to find work simply shifted team gender.
 
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Also interesting that in the rush to make it Pat/Geno they left out the three active female D1 coaches between the two in terms of number of victories.
 
What I think is almost as bad is the putrid coverage of WCBB in the sports sections of newspapers. UConn played Temple at 6:00; the game was over by 8:00; plenty of lead time for the papers. And yet, no mention in the next day's NY Times, Globe, or Prov. Journal, the three largest non-Conn. nearby papers. The number 1 team in the country, with the number 1 player doesn't get a mention, but you should have seen all those no-ranked men's teams get noticed....They'll print Australian cricket scores before they cover WCBB (no offense intended to cricketers).
 
It must be that men are better coaches than women. :0)

Seriously, the author of the article revealed her prejudice in the way she presented this stat -

While Summitt retired in 2012 after being diagnosed with early-onset dementia, her 1,098 career wins still stand as the most by any coach, male or female, in college basketball. Even at Auriemma’s current rate of 31 wins per season, and with him having coached UConn since 1985, it would take him another five years to pass Summitt.

Not only statistical errors, i.e. Auriemma's "current" win rate is actually his career win rate, but if the paragraph was written without bias it would say that Auriemma will get there quicker than Summitt therefore he must be the most successful coach in WCBB. "It will take him another 5 years . . ." IMO he'll do it in 4 more but even if he does it in 5 he still bests Summitt. She also ignores all the other comparative accomplishments where Summitt takes a back seat to Auriemma.
 
I have worked with women coaches and men coaches. As with everything is life, people are individuals and not groups. I have seen lots of great coaches of both sexes. Same with bad coaches. But in all fairness, since there are more male coaches, I have seen more terrible coaching from men.
Merit is the key for me. It did not matter the position (principal, CEO, supervisor) I have seen equal talent and equal weakness.
Just for the heck of it --and I am not an internet guru--How many head coaches are M/F in the top 50 teams and how many are M/F in the bottom 50 teams? Just wondering ? I am guessing it is pretty close.
 
PhillyCoach said:
I have worked with women coaches and men coaches. As with everything is life, people are individuals and not groups. I have seen lots of great coaches of both sexes. Same with bad coaches. But in all fairness, since there are more male coaches, I have seen more terrible coaching from men.
Merit is the key for me. It did not matter the position (principal, CEO, supervisor) I have seen equal talent and equal weakness.
Just for the heck of it --and I am not an internet guru--How many head coaches are M/F in the top 50 teams and how many are M/F in the bottom 50 teams? Just wondering ? I am guessing it is pretty close.
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You've struck the nail on its head, PC. In an ideal world we would focus on individual merit and set aside the two most popular issues of gender and race. But that seems impossible because there's always someone toting up differences and attributing these to discrimination. Of course there IS discrimination, but by leveling the playing field (which should be the case) there is no guarantee that one or another group will rise to the top. Candidates for coaching jobs should in every instance be chosen on the basis of merit: that's the gender blind/color blind world of aspiration. That's the world Dr. King envisioned.
 
huskyd said:
You've struck the nail on its head, PC. In an ideal world we would focus on individual merit and set aside the two most popular issues of gender and race. But that seems impossible because there's always someone toting up differences and attributing these to discrimination. Of course there IS discrimination, but by leveling the playing field (which should be the case) there is no guarantee that one or another group will rise to the top. Candidates for coaching jobs should in every instance be chosen on the basis of merit: that's the gender blind/color blind world of aspiration. That's the world Dr. King envisioned.
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I agree and disagree - I too get tired of the constant harping on those distinction, but then I am a white male, non-LGBT, non-immigrant, of a mainline Christian church, and never had to seek a new job above the age of forty! And I am not so head in the sand to believe my experience is the same for those who cannot claim all of those traits. I certainly am not a supreme court justice who cannot see that discrimination in any of those areas does still exist in this country.

The reason that this is an issue that gets discussed is that half of the coaching jobs in college are in essence a closed shop for women - certainly in the primary money sports of MBB and FB. The number of 'qualified' female candidates for those jobs is unknown, but the number that are actually consider is so few that it is national news when one is hired as an assistant, let alone a head coach. Given that gender bias on one side of the gender split in the sport of basketball it, is certainly valid to comment on the more even distribution on the other side, and how that for whatever reason it has seen a steady shift to equality, that presumably means fewer women are making a living as coaches at the same time that more women are participating in sports with more financial backing.
 
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As and addendum to my previous posts - I once heard it argued and could certainly see the logic, that the original minimum wage law was a disaster for minorities and led to more unemployment and poverty for them - the premise was that suddenly menial jobs were paying enough money that non-minorities were willing to apply for them and were being hired instead of the minority candidates, thus depriving them of a first step up the ladder. It is an argument that gets recycled now in terms of 'jobs only immigrants (legal or otherwise) are willing to do.'

The reason it is relevant here is that when significantly more money began pouring into women's sports, the coaching pay became significantly better and the jobs became something that men might consider rather than generally being seen as 'jobs only women were willing to do.' :)
 
This wouldn't be an issue if female coaches were commonplace in male sports, but they're not. Let's face it; the media and many sports fans don't take women's sports as seriously as they do men's sports.
 
cockhrnleghrn said:
Let's face it; the media and many sports fans don't take women's sports as seriously as they do men's sports.
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That would primarily be because many women don't take women's sports as seriously as many men do men's sports.
 
lne001 said:
That would primarily be because many women don't take women's sports as seriously as many men do men's sports.
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I never said that women didn't contribute to the problem, but there's no reason that men can't also take women's sports as seriously as they do men's sports.
 
Monte said:
Some people just try to stir things up. I don't really notice. How many of those male coaches are bald? What is the ratio of male-female in assistant coaches? How many men coaches don't wear ties any more? How many women coaches wear slacks instead of dresses or skirts?
Are most cheerleaders still female? What is the ratio of announcers, M-F?
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Simply arrogance/stupidity. Try opening another frame: how about sexism? or, how about men having more avenues then women, from which they may enter into wbb! Thus giving them an added advantage. I have a lot of respect for Geno. He has made a decision to recruit and train women coaches. Hopefully, they will have a chance to compete on a level playing field and not a guy coming from mbb as a 2nd or 3rd assistant, but having the added advantage that he has been with a top mbb program.
 
Kmoney said:
considering the large majority of assistant coaches are women.
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cant have a bunch of men in a women's locker room that would be a recipe for disaster and you need females who can relate to "female situations"
 
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DaddyChoc said:
cant have a bunch of men in a women's locker room that would be a recipe for disaster and you need females who can relate to "female situations"
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My point is that if most of the assistant coaches are women then it should be a natural migration to head coaching. Why are there mostly female assistants, but less female head coaches?
 
We keep hearing "why don't men respect women's sports?" My point has always been women's sports should not need support from men. If women supported women's sports at anywhere near the level that they support the fashion, shoe and cosmetics industry we wouldn't be having this discussion. The reality is that they don't. In fact most women have little or no interest in women's sports.

My wife works in an office with about 20 other women. She is the only UConn fan in the office and I call her a "soft fan." The only reason that she is any kind of fan is because I dragged her to the games early on. Of course she has purchased all sorts of UConn wear from the co-op (I have a hat). My daughter spent 7 years at UConn, including one as a cheerleader. She has no interest in women's basketball although she follows the men.
 
vtcwbuff said:
We keep hearing "why don't men respect women's sports?" My point has always been women's sports should not need support from men. If women supported women's sports at anywhere near the level that they support the fashion, shoe and cosmetics industry we wouldn't be having this discussion. The reality is that they don't. In fact most women have little or no interest in women's sports.

My wife works in an office with about 20 other women. She is the only UConn fan in the office and I call her a "soft fan." The only reason that she is any kind of fan is because I dragged her to the games early on. Of course she has purchased all sorts of UConn wear from the co-op (I have a hat). My daughter spent 7 years at UConn, including one as a cheerleader. She has no interest in women's basketball although she follows the men.
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I've viewed a lot of the same at Notre Dame. My daughter was an active youth soccer and lacrosse player, but does not have an interest in the womens' teams of those sports. As for hoops, everyone likes Muffet and she takes courses with several of the players, but only goes to a game once or twice. Her favorite sports are men's lacrosse and hockey. One other student I coached in youth soccer once said she'd gotten her fill of playing sports by high school, but isn't particularly interested in being a fan...she's shifted her focus to writing and editing the school's magazine.
 
Kmoney said:
My point is that if most of the assistant coaches are women then it should be a natural migration to head coaching. Why are there mostly female assistants, but less female head coaches?
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even more reason Shea should be the next UConn women head coach
 
PhillyCoach said:
I have worked with women coaches and men coaches. As with everything is life, people are individuals and not groups. I have seen lots of great coaches of both sexes. Same with bad coaches. But in all fairness, since there are more male coaches, I have seen more terrible coaching from men.
Merit is the key for me. It did not matter the position (principal, CEO, supervisor) I have seen equal talent and equal weakness.
Just for the heck of it --and I am not an internet guru--How many head coaches are M/F in the top 50 teams and how many are M/F in the bottom 50 teams? Just wondering ? I am guessing it is pretty close.
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In the Top 50 teams there are 23 Male coaches and 27 Female coaches.
In the Bottom 50 teams there are 22 Male coaches and 28 Female coaches.
For purposes of determining the top and bottom 50 I used the current Saragin RPI ratings.
Your guess is correct,
NOTE: I assumed a coach whose first names are Robin and Lynn were female(although Robin Yount and Lynn Swan might argue differently)
 
ThisJustIn said:
Coaching is not particularly lucrative and tough on the family... clearly men don't care about their families as much as women... :0)
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I wouldn't say male coaches don't care about their families, I would say they are more willing to make the sacrifices that a head coaching job requires than women are.
 
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Dillon and vtcbuff - both very valid discussions, but not exactly on topic of the hiring of women's coaches in sports. And I will also say that you have to lead a horse to water before it might drink - referring to the general lack of promotion and reporting on women's sports throughout various media and within college or home city communities. The media and communities have generally been dominated by men who have overwhelmingly promoted men's sports and ignored women's sports. Where that has changed, there has been more interest and more fan support for women's sports - not equal, but noticeably greater. CT being a prime example, with strong media support and strong community support, but you can look at SC and TN and Baylor as similar situations.
 
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Beemer said:
I wouldn't say male coaches don't care about their families, I would say they are more willing to make the sacrifices that a head coaching job requires than women are.
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And their female partners are more willing to accept the added burden such 'sacrifices' entail on the partner.
But that is the argument made whenever 'equality' gender issues in hiring are raised - and it is valid as a national statistic, but completely invalid in most hiring situation where the interviewees of both gender for the position have already shown the willingness to make those sacrifices. It may reduce the pool of candidates of one gender, but not the qualifications of the candidates.
 
ochoopsfan said:
In the Top 50 teams there are 23 Male coaches and 27 Female coaches.
In the Bottom 50 teams there are 22 Male coaches and 28 Female coaches.
For purposes of determining the top and bottom 50 I used the current Saragin RPI ratings.
Your guess is correct,
NOTE: I assumed a coach whose first names are Robin and Lynn were female(although Robin Yount and Lynn Swan might argue differently)
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Hey ochoopsfan - thanks for doing the foot work. It seems the quality of coaching should not be an issue with those numbers. Again, it comes down to the individual and not groups.
 
It may be in the end that Geno's permanent legacy (aside from the numbers) will be an entirely female coaching tree. Remember also that ADs higher coaches and my guess is that there are precious few female AD's. I will always, always remember that Geno's first move was to drag CD to Storrs. How did that work?
 
UcMiami said:
And their female partners are more willing to accept the added burden such 'sacrifices' entail on the partner.
But that is the argument made whenever 'equality' gender issues in hiring are raised - and it is valid as a national statistic, but completely invalid in most hiring situation where the interviewees of both gender for the position have already shown the willingness to make those sacrifices. It may reduce the pool of candidates of one gender, but not the qualifications of the candidates.
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So are you saying that in the event of two equally qualified candidates, one female & one male, the tie-breaker should be gender and in favor of the female gender???? That sounds like gender discrimination to me, and I'm female.
 
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