Fans of other teams are ignorant - serious misconceptions about UConn APR/academics

[ihatepants]

I've been getting into an argument with fans of other teams on another board and I think I am losing my sanity over how ignorant they are.

Spoiler: Long read

APR may not be perfect but it's not like UConn was banned for nothing, Calhoun arguably got off easy for some pretty bad stuff unrelated to their academic issues.

I know you're a Rutgers fan, but don't be stupd. The APR change was essentially just to screw UConn over. Retroactive punishments are b/s when it is already too late to change what has happened. And UConn got punished twice for the APR, which made it even more ridiculous.

In May 2011, we lost two scholarships due to the low APR, then a few months later they decided to implement a post-season ban for teams who have a low APR, without giving teams below the new 930 score to transition to the new value, despite saying that they would give them the opportunity to. They also refused to take the newest 2011 or 2012 scores into account, which would have made them eligible, instead insisting on just the 2009 and 2010 APR scores.

I'm wondering how UConn's APR score ever got that low to begin with. It doesn't seem especially difficult to keep up a passing score, given that the vast majority of DI programs have notably notfaced APR-related sanctions and most of the ones that have are HBCUs. Did Calhoun just decide he didn't give a single f about academic performance?

UConn got a few players like Gavin Edwards who decided not to finish their final semester of college because they got offers to play in Europe and wanted to work out and train for that instead. They also got a few players who transferred out of the program in poor standing. And they also had players like Jonathan Mandledove, who just didnt attend classes.

Also Calhoun (and the university) basically did a bad job making sure that the players were at least being decent students. I guess he felt like everyone would have taken an example out of Okafor and Kemba Walker who were great students and both graduated early, but instead he just let his players do their own thing with regards to the classroom, which was obviously a mistake.

It's much better now because they actually make sure that the players are doing well in class and Ollie emphasizes that with his players now as well.

APR isn't perfect but it's really, really hard to not have a qualifying score, your academics have to be embarrassing to do it. It's insane how many UConn fans assume that it's because of things like Kemba Walker declaring early. Nope. Early declarations or transfers don't necessarily hurt you. Transfers or early entrees while academically ineligible hurt you.

Also, Nate Miles. UConn/Calhoun deserve 0 sympathy.

As with Miles, for Calhoun to NOT know about this, he would have to be stunningly, blindly incompetent. That he is somehow the kindly Sultan, being manipulated by the cowardly Jafar (Josh Nochimson.)

Thats unless you're completely ignorant and dont even know how UConn's APR dropped that low in the first place. APR is a not great system and the poor handling of the problems that UConn faced all at once is what led to their issues. You're making it sound like UConn was complete shot with regards to academics, but that wasnt the case at all. True, they could have handled it better, and they do today. But UConn student athletes are allowed to get their degrees in five year tracts instead of the usual four years, but APR essentially makes it so that the athletes need to be shoehorned into four year tracts, which isnt in the best interest of the students. Now, the players are given proper guidance and join four year tracts that actually offer summer and intercession classes as well as help/extra tutoring if their GPA drops below 2.3 at any point.

UConns APR issues between 2007 and 2010 that caused the ban were due to players who left the school without being granted waiver points because they werent good enough to get drafted in the first round of the NBA draft (AJ Price, Jeff Adrien, Gavin Edwards, Stanley Robinson, Jerome Dyson and Ater Majok), they instead had to play in the summer and d-league. Only first round draft picks are given a waiver for the retention point thats lost. Kemba Walker would have lost his retention point if he wasnt a first rounder because he left the school without officially graduating at the time APR is calculated.

Darius Smith and Jamaal Trice transferred to JUCOs, so they werent given a retention waiver, either - only waived if a player transfers to a 4 year school. Jamaal Coombs-McDaniel and Doug Wiggins lost a point because they transferred to four year schools with a GPA under 2.6, not because they transferred while academically ineligible. Another two complete APR points were lost because Nate Miles was expelled before the season began. Ater Majok also contributed to low APR, because instead of helping the team, he actually hurt it because NCAA didnt come up with a decision on his eligibility until midway through his freshman year, saying he couldnt play until December of the following year - resulting in losing 4 possible full-year points.

The main players who lost academic standing APR points were Jonathan Mandledove (0/2 two consecutive years), Charles Okwandu (1/2 second semester of 2009) and Stanley Robinson (0/2 in 2007).

All in all, UConn lost only 5 APR points in the three seasons (07-'10) due to players who were academically ineligible - and most of it was because Jonathan Mandledove was a dummy. They lost 12 APR points during the same time due to missed retention points and 2 APR points due to Nate Miles' expulsion.

Sorry, that's bs. They weren't penalized for leaving, they were penalized for leaving while not meeting basic standards, which you mentioned below.

Look at who else has received this penalty? Do you realize how hard it is to get an APR ban? It's something you pretty much have to actively work at.

Or maybe you're just biased. Which is kind of funny because Rutgers' coach didnt graduate either after being a four year player. Apparently, he too understood that a future career (in basketball) was more important than credits that he can always finish and come back to at a later date. I'm not sure why you don't get that.

How many other schools had that many players even pursue careers in basketball after playing in the NCAA and all leave in the same period? Players that werent quite good enough to get picked in the first round of the NBA draft to get a guaranteed contract that would give them a retention waiver, but still good enough to think about an actual career in basketball? These guys were docked a retention point because they left the team short of graduating - as UConn student athletes are given 5 years to graduate instead of the usual 4 years that APR requires, or because they left while being in good academic standing at UConn (>2.0 GPA) but are being held to a higher standard just because they were leaving (2.6 GPA).

Yes it's also UConn's fault. They dont have independent studies courses/internships (which are mostly bullshit) that other schools do for their athletes. Calhoun also did a poor job at making sure everyone was doing okay. But overall the main reason this happened was not because of one or two factors but because all this occurred at once. Calhoun got too many players that werent great students but also werent great basketball players and it bit him and the university in the ass.

In any case, 17 of the 20 APR points that UConn lost during that three year period was due to players leaving. That has nothing at all to do with "embarrassing academics" going on at UConn, like you claimed earlier. And it definitely doesnt show that. I'm sorry that you are unable to wrap your brain around it.

Jesus F' Christ. You can have all of the excuses in the world but no one gives a . You didn't hit the magic number, so you get in trouble. "UCONN athletes get 5, not 4 years". Congrats, your school is stupid. "Calhoun got players that weren't good in the classroom or basketball court". Congrats, your coach was an idiot who should have been smarter about playing the game. You realize that a 2.6 GPA in the classes they make athletes take is a joke, right? These aren't standards that are unreasonable.

Kentucky definitely had more players leave and they have a perfect APR. I assure you we are not recruiting Einstein.

Now, you can type out your 10,000 word response again that rehashes the same stuff.

I was gonna respond again to that last Kentucky fan, but I think it might be better for my health to just not.

 

[Big44papa]

I've been getting into an argument with fans of other teams on another board and I think I am losing my sanity over how ignorant they are.

Spoiler: Long read

Dude i live in the middle of big blue nation and i have a couple points for you.
1. deep inside there souls they understand that UCONN has prevented a mini dynasty in lexington. think about what they would have done if uconn didnt beat the 3 times in 5 years....a mauii win, and championship game against butler(they would have most likey won) and a national championship.
2. they know the APR issues are wrong and if it happened to UK they would cry like babys for years. the APR system works well for a school like UK and players leaving early for the NBA.
3. dont try to reason with them.......it will only frustrate you. i just wear my beautiful UCONN hat and point to the Husky on my head.....they know!

I was gonna respond again to that last Kentucky fan, but I think it might be better for my health to just not.

 

[huskiesnyc]

It's not worth responding to because your comments will just fall on deaf ears. The most frustrating part to me is how people view Syracuse as clean, even though they received a 2 year ban in the 90's for a MASSIVE cheating scandal. Also the misconception that our APR has anything to do with cheating just proves their ignorance. We got punished for poor APR for NOT CHEATING like Kentucky and many others! Anyway I'm kind of over it now, and honestly think it all worked out for the best. I'd like to thank the NCAA for screwing us, and motivating our hungry huskies to win our 4th National Championship. Suck it Emmert!

 

[mcs333]

Most people have no idea how the APR is calculated and how two upset players could cause a team to become ineligible if they both dropped out of school mid term. They would be considered 0-4 points. If that happened to UCONN next year with only 10 sch. players the impact would be devastating. 16-20 or a .800 APR for that semester.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Kentucky fans are passionate, which is good; but that passion can be blinding, especially when they are winning. They hired a coach who had ruined 2 basketball programs (UMass and Memphis). The program, after all was built by Rup, a Hall of fame coach who also the coach during the 1951 point shaving scandal and who is not seen in a favorable light with respect to racial segregation at universities; but, of course, none of that was his fault. Caoch Cal is walking in some big footsteps.

 

[Palatine]

Our big mistake was making the players actually attend class.

 

[amory]

It is what it is. Our players weren't performing up to par in the classroom and we took our punishment for it. Personally I'd rather have a punishment handed down and served than be in a situation like UNC who will never be punished for their (far worse) scandal.

We've done our penance. Other schools who don't are stained way worse, IMO, because they cheated the system twice.

 

[J-dog]

The APR issue is a lame attempt by other fan-bases to somehow make their programs project some type of superiority over UCONN. They can't win the argument when looking at on the court success. It's UCONN by a country mega-mile & then some...

Bottom-line is they would all trade places in a heartbeat…

Just ignore these uninformed fools...

 

[housekeys]

I propose we gather all links and information debunking this crap and pinning it to the top of the Boneyard message board. Next time anyone has to take on an ignorant fan, just point them to the pinned thread. Efficient way to handle it. It gets tiresome otherwise, like you said.

 

[boba]

 

[CL82]

Our big mistake was making the players actually attend class.

No our mistake was how the administration reacted to the penalty. We should have gone after the NCAA for the ex post facto and double jeopardy aspects of the penalty. Instead, we went with the "Oh don't punish these kids they didn't do anything" approach which was a tacit admission to wrongdoing. I think this is a case where the prior lawsuit actually hurt us. I suspect we were reluctant to make enemies or go back to court. I don't believe that the sanction would have survived judicial scrutiny. Miami got out of their penalties challenging the legality of the NCAA's actions; we could have as well. Don't even get me started about UNC...

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Most people have no idea how the APR is calculated and how two upset players could cause a team to become ineligible if they both dropped out of school mid term. They would be considered 0-4 points. If that happened to UCONN next year with only 10 sch. players the impact would be devastating. 16-20 or a .800 APR for that semester.

That's why the movement making it easier transfer scares me. The kid may be able to transfers ,the old school takes a hit ,and that kid may be able to play next year. Using some neat summer class shenanigans.
That's wrong and punishes the wrong party

 

[CallMeBruce]

No our mistake was how the administration reacted to the penalty. We should have gone after the NCAA for the ex post facto and double jeopardy aspects of the penalty. Instead, we went with the "Oh don't punish these kids they didn't do anything" approach which was a tacit admission to wrongdoing. I think this is a case where the prior lawsuit actually hurt us. I suspect we were reluctant to make enemies or go back to court. I don't believe that you would have been up to judicial scrutiny. Miami got out of their penalties challenging the legality of the NCAA's actions; we could have as well. Don't even get me started about UNC...

This is what I said at the time. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they didn't sue was because they were afraid of retaliation from the NCAA.

 

[B1GEast]

Does anyone really expect other fan bases to care? when you're on top, the world will hate you.

 

[NJHusky]

roflmao...trying to find a print of this online but no luck....anyone know where i can get this.....needs to go up on my office wall!

 

[dsturdy5]

This is what Patriots fans have been dealing with regarding "spy gate" for years. It will never go away because the media has perpetuated it as something that it is not and it is a lot easier to go along with it than changing the minds of the mindless.

 

[Gurleyman]

The thing that bugs me is that folks slander the 2011 and 2014 title teams, based on the academic performances of their predecessors. Way too many people think that the 2011 team was an academic failure since we were suspended two years later, when in reality that team had a near-perfect (980) APR score. Then it resurfaced again this year with the "8 percent graduation rate", which was pretty much based on the same 12 people from the same bad APR era that caused us to be suspended, just repackaged in a new statistic.

 

[61cygni]

Ignore the willingly ignorant, educate the rest.

 

[8893]

What my law partner said about trial is also true about perception in general: Most people want People magazine, not the New York Times. If it can be explained with a picture and a caption, they get it; if you have to spend more than a few sentences explaining it, you lose them.

Then there are Cuse fans--they are the ones who want the Weekly World News.

 

[J-dog]

What my law partner said about trial is also true about perception in general: Most people want People magazine, not the New York Times. If it can be explained with a picture and a caption, they get it; if you have to spend more than a few sentences explaining it, you lose them.

Then there are Cuse fans--they are the ones who want the Weekly World News.

Cuse? More like the National Enquirer..




That was too easy…

 

[August_West]

Cuse fans can read?

 

[8893]

Cuse? More like the National Enquirer..




That was too easy…

I sense that you may not be familiar with the greatness that is the Weekly World News (The World's Only Reliable News):

 

[intlzncster]

Don't waste your time. As a Patriots fan, you get used to idiots trying to hold BS (made up in the media and their heads) against you. For better or worse, it becomes part of your sports identity.

The thing is, most people, especially on the web, don't want to be corrected. They like misinterpreting because it fuels their jealousy and world view.

 

[J-dog]

I sense that you may not be familiar with the greatness that is the Weekly World News (The World's Only Reliable News):

My bad 8893…. That is very Enquirer-like

Thanks for the edification!

 

[UConn990411]

You know what I'd rather do than worry about what other teams' fans think about UConn and the APR?

Watch this video: