Excitement for the American Athletic Conference

[Hoophound]

We need cash. You can put a positive spin on the AAC all you want but it won't change the fact that we need to make money. The AAC payout is horrible. I could find more money in HFD's couch.

 

[metsfan2323]

Count me as excited. The product on the field will be just as good as the Big East. Like another person said, the AAC is my favorite conference because UCONN plays in it. We just need to win.

Also playing in Texas every year could help recruiting, do we get Richard Lagow in the old Big East?

 

[metsfan2323]

We need cash. You can put a positive spin on the AAC all you want but it won't change the fact that we need to make money. The AAC payout is horrible. I could find more money in HFD's couch.

I don't understand the obsession with money in amateur athletics. Are you suggesting that over the last 5 years BC has been more successful than Boise because they have made more money?

 

[UConnDan97]

You can't buy individual games after you know what the teams records are, so it's a bit of a pointless statement to begin with. Networks had every opportunity to acquire the rights to Cincinnati and Boise and the league ended up embarrassed by how the negotiations went.

Nobody was willing to pay anything above spare change for the league - so the fact there there could be one specific matchup that might be interesting if both teams were 10-1 doesn't really say much.

I've been reading about the theoretical television potential of this league for a long time. It has proven to have none. It's time to stop pretending something that never existed still does.

Does it make sense that there is such of a revenue gulf between the AAC and ACC? Of course not: Their ratings aren't ten times higher, the games aren't ten times better.

I know you can't buy individual games. But individual games are most certainly what networks are looking at when making their bids.

You stated that the reason Boise stayed in the MW was because nobody would pay for the games. That's absolutely not true. The only reason that Boise stayed in the MW was because they were able to coerce the MW into giving them (and ONLY them) the same amount of money. When coupled with less travel, they made their decision to stay. But don't say that it was because they wouldn't have received better money, because they would have:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...te-mountain-west-conference-big-east/1801267/

(Note: even after the sweetheart deal, SDSU was still on the fence to join the Big East, knowing full well that they were not going to enjoy in the sweetheart deal)

 

[whaler11]

I know you can't buy individual games. But individual games are most certainly what networks are looking at when making their bids.

You stated that the reason Boise stayed in the MW was because nobody would pay for the games. That's absolutely not true. The only reason that Boise stayed in the MW was because they were able to coerce the MW into giving them (and ONLY them) the same amount of money. When coupled with less travel, they made their decision to stay. But don't say that it was because they wouldn't have received better money, because they would have:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...te-mountain-west-conference-big-east/1801267/

(Note: even after the sweetheart deal, SDSU was still on the fence to join the Big East, knowing full well that they were not going to enjoy in the sweetheart deal)

So if networks are bidding thinking about individual games and the AAC offers were a joke doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that games like Cincinnati and Boise for example were not valued by television? Which is exactly what I said that upset you and Pudge to begin with.

Sorry you want to be pedantic about it... Boise State stayed in the MWC because nobody would pay any premium above and beyond the potential MWC money. Based on what they get on the open market television generally believes neither league has any value.

While there is a constant drumbeat here that somehow Boise has some value, their inclusion in either league didn't move the needle. So while Pudge can say Boise is more interesting or exciting than Mississippi State - that's great but doesn't much matter.

 

[UConnDan97]

So if networks are bidding thinking about individual games and the AAC offers were a joke doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that games like Cincinnati and Boise for example were not valued by television? Which is exactly what I said that upset you and Pudge to begin with.

Sorry you want to be pedantic about it... Boise State stayed in the MWC because nobody would pay any premium above and beyond the potential MWC money. Based on what they get on the open market television generally believes neither league has any value.

While there is a constant drumbeat here that somehow Boise has some value, their inclusion in either league didn't move the needle. So while Pudge can say Boise is more interesting or exciting than Mississippi State - that's great but doesn't much matter.

What I'm saying to you is that THERE WAS a premium value that Boise brought to the Big East. I'm not sure why you are avoiding that fact. The Mountain West completely restructured their deal in order to bring back Boise, so that they would avoid conference death. The other teams of the league essentially agreed to take less money each in order to create the level of money that Boise was due to make in the Big East. So yes, there was a premium that Boise was going to bring to both the BE and the MW, and both groups recognized it. You are the last person to recognize that fact. Or the last one to admit it. I'm not sure which...

 

[huskymedic]

I'm sure it will be picked apart but here is an American PSA http://theamerican.org/showcase/?Archive=5

The American site is now live - content still being added.

Link showing where each of the sport's championships are planned on being played - http://theamerican.org/sports/2013/6/22/MBB_0622130547.aspx?id=3&

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm sure it will be picked apart but here is an American PSA http://theamerican.org/showcase/?Archive=5

The American site is now live - content still being added.

Link showing where each of the sport's championships are planned on being played - http://theamerican.org/sports/2013/6/22/MBB_0622130547.aspx?id=3&

I think it's good.

At risk of sounding like I'm picking it apart, I wish they didn't put as much emphasis on Louisville as they did on this one. I know that they won the BBall title so we want to play that up, but it's only good for a year, and I think everyone knows that Louisville is outta here. The Rutgers cameos....I don't mind so much. I think it's because even the B1G can't believe that they're coming...

 

[woomba]

What I'm saying to you is that THERE WAS a premium value that Boise brought to the Big East. I'm not sure why you are avoiding that fact. The Mountain West completely restructured their deal in order to bring back Boise, so that they would avoid conference death. The other teams of the league essentially agreed to take less money each in order to create the level of money that Boise was due to make in the Big East. So yes, there was a premium that Boise was going to bring to both the BE and the MW, and both groups recognized it. You are the last person to recognize that fact. Or the last one to admit it. I'm not sure which...

When you're referring to the Big East I'm not sure if you're referring to the current AAC contract or the hypothetical Big East that would've existed with Boise + SDSU.

Boise's payout in the new MWC is only marginally better than the AAC payout ($1.9M-$2.5M - probably will average $2.3M vs AAC's $2M). You're technically right that there was a Boise State premium but the premium is small and would have barely covered the additional logistical costs that Boise would incur playing out East, which is why they decided to stay local for essentially the same payout.

http://blogs.idahostatesman.com/boise-state-football-guaranteed-three-games-national-tv-bonus-games/

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Count me as excited. The product on the field will be just as good as the Big East. Like another person said, the AAC is my favorite conference because UCONN plays in it. We just need to win.

Also playing in Texas every year could help recruiting, do we get Richard Lagow in the old Big East?

We did get Lagow in the Big East... the question is do we get the next Lagow in the AAC?

 

[UConnDan97]

When you're referring to the Big East I'm not sure if you're referring to the current AAC contract or the hypothetical Big East that would've existed with Boise + SDSU.

Boise's payout in the new MWC is only marginally better than the AAC payout ($1.9M-$2.5M - probably will average $2.3M vs AAC's $2M). You're technically right that there was a Boise State premium but the premium is small and would have barely covered the additional logistical costs that Boise would incur playing out East, which is why they decided to stay local for essentially the same payout.

http://blogs.idahostatesman.com/boise-state-football-guaranteed-three-games-national-tv-bonus-games/

Whether the premium would have justified the travel is secondary to the fact that there was a premium, which was my point.

The point you made about the premium not justifying the travel; I would argue that the premium did indeed justify the travel, which is why Kustra, et al., agreed to join. The fact that the Mountain West re-negotiated their existing contract and gave Boise a better deal with better television options essentially "restored" their premium in their own back yard, hence there was no need for the extra travel...

 

[Hoophound]

I don't understand the obsession with money in amateur athletics. Are you suggesting that over the last 5 years BC has been more successful than Boise because they have made more money?

The difference is Boise struck coaching gold. They also have no academic standards. Going forward, BC can afford to hire a big name coach. Boise can't, so they better keep getting lucky.

When our facilities become dated, we won't have money to rebuild, schools like BC will.

The big conference programs are making 10-20 times what we are. Look at that in everyday terms. If I make 100k per year and you make $2,000,000 don't you think our circumstances will look quite different? Furthermore, think about how different your life will be than mine 20 years from now. This is a problem that will compound over time.

 

[woomba]

The difference is Boise struck coaching gold. They also have no academic standards. Going forward, BC can afford to hire a big name coach. Boise can't, so they better keep getting lucky.

When our facilities become dated, we won't have money to rebuild, schools like BC will.

The big conference programs are making 10-20 times what we are. Look at that in everyday terms. If I make 100k per year and you make $2,000,000 don't you think our circumstances will look quite different? Furthermore, think about how different your life will be than mine 20 years from now. This is a problem that will compound over time.

Craziest thing about Boise academics :

4-year graduation rate : 8%

I didn't even realize those numbers were possible.

 

[whaler11]

What I'm saying to you is that THERE WAS a premium value that Boise brought to the Big East. I'm not sure why you are avoiding that fact. The Mountain West completely restructured their deal in order to bring back Boise, so that they would avoid conference death. The other teams of the league essentially agreed to take less money each in order to create the level of money that Boise was due to make in the Big East. So yes, there was a premium that Boise was going to bring to both the BE and the MW, and both groups recognized it. You are the last person to recognize that fact. Or the last one to admit it. I'm not sure which...

You are looking at a few stray hundred k which amount to rounding errors and declaring that a premium. I am looking at a contract all in that is much less than what Seton Hall basketball gets and drawing the obvious conclusion that Boise wasn't offered nor paid a premium.

MWC has become such a bush league operation that they are allowing Boise to wear blue at home. You want to pay them and beg them to stay? Why not just give them a 12th player or allow them to hold on 3rd down. What a joke.

 

[whaler11]

Whether the premium would have justified the travel is secondary to the fact that there was a premium, which was my point.

The point you made about the premium not justifying the travel; I would argue that the premium did indeed justify the travel, which is why Kustra, et al., agreed to join. The fact that the Mountain West re-negotiated their existing contract and gave Boise a better deal with better television options essentially "restored" their premium in their own back yard, hence there was no need for the extra travel...

That was the premium they assumed was going to exist. It never materialized. The Big East had turned down 8 figure payouts - they joined under the assumption it wouldn't turn out to be MWC money.

In the end I think having to stash all their teams elsewhere came into play as much as travel for football. It's really only 1-2 bad trips a year, and it's not like they had any problem coming to CT since they already agreed to OOC.

 

[UConnDan97]

The difference is Boise struck coaching gold. They also have no academic standards. Going forward, BC can afford to hire a big name coach. Boise can't, so they better keep getting lucky.

When our facilities become dated, we won't have money to rebuild, schools like BC will.

The big conference programs are making 10-20 times what we are. Look at that in everyday terms. If I make 100k per year and you make $2,000,000 don't you think our circumstances will look quite different? Furthermore, think about how different your life will be than mine 20 years from now. This is a problem that will compound over time.

If Boise struck coaching gold, then they have done it three times already (Dirk Koetter, Dan Hawkins, Chris Peterson - all greater than 0.72 winning percentages). You could even argue that they struck gold four times, since Houston Nutt was there the year before Koetter, and he went on to be quite successful at Arkansas.

As for the money / facilities thing; it constantly amazes me how many people forget that UConn is the flagship university for the state of Connecticut. If you believe that a few million per year shortfall will be allowed to be the death of us, you are kidding yourselves. We just got another 2 billion.....2 billion!!!....dollars approved for UConn, which was a decade after the UConn2000 program brought us 2.3 billion. And we are sitting here talking about the death of the university in 20 years and comparing it to BC.....c'mon now.

(let's not forget that UConn will make significantly more than 2 million per year for the next few years due to NCAA credits, exit fees, and Big East hoops school deal for the name)

 

[UConnDan97]

You are looking at a few stray hundred k which amount to rounding errors and declaring that a premium. I am looking at a contract all in that is much less than what Seton Hall basketball gets and drawing the obvious conclusion that Boise wasn't offered nor paid a premium.

MWC has become such a bush league operation that they are allowing Boise to wear blue at home. You want to pay them and beg them to stay? Why not just give them a 12th player or allow them to hold on 3rd down. What a joke.

The premium was over a million dollars per team per year. That's not a rounding error. That's 14 million dollars of value. I'm not sure how much you want to attribute to SDSU, because they would have obviously been responsible for some of that value as well, but the idea that this is a negligible effect is preposterous.

I definitely agree with you that MW has become a bush league operation. I suspect that they preferred bush league over no league. If they didn't restructure with the sweetheart deal, it was a matter of time before they either lost Fresno and to us, or they went the way of the WAC and joined up with C-USA. Allowing Boise to sell their home games and allowing them to wear whatever they choose at home was a calculated attempt to stay in business...

 

[Hoophound]

If Boise struck coaching gold, then they have done it three times already (Dirk Koetter, Dan Hawkins, Chris Peterson - all greater than 0.72 winning percentages). You could even argue that they struck gold four times, since Houston Nutt was there the year before Koetter, and he went on to be quite successful at Arkansas.

As for the money / facilities thing; it constantly amazes me how many people forget that UConn is the flagship university for the state of Connecticut. If you believe that a few million per year shortfall will be allowed to be the death of us, you are kidding yourselves. We just got another 2 billion.....2 billion!!!....dollars approved for UConn, which was a decade after the UConn2000 program brought us 2.3 billion. And we are sitting here talking about the death of the university in 20 years and comparing it to BC.....c'mon now.

(let's not forget that UConn will make significantly more than 2 million per year for the next few years due to NCAA credits, exit fees, and Big East hoops school deal for the name)

They have struck gold 3 times. Anytime a school gets a great coach 3 times in a row, they are getting lucky. And again, they take all the great players that can't read while we can't take players that are even marginal.

As far as your "a few million" comment, it isn't a few million, its a 20-32 million dollar per year difference. That is massive. It's like Tolland High School trying to compete with UCONN.

 

[whaler11]

The premium was over a million dollars per team per year. That's not a rounding error. That's 14 million dollars of value. I'm not sure how much you want to attribute to SDSU, because they would have obviously been responsible for some of that value as well, but the idea that this is a negligible effect is preposterous.

I definitely agree with you that MW has become a bush league operation. I suspect that they preferred bush league over no league. If they didn't restructure with the sweetheart deal, it was a matter of time before they either lost Fresno and to us, or they went the way of the WAC and joined up with C-USA. Allowing Boise to sell their home games and allowing them to wear whatever they choose at home was a calculated attempt to stay in business...

Even after they sell the rights to a conf championship game the leagues total revenue is 20 million if they are lucky with 12 mouths to feed.

If Boise brought 14 million in value themselves they would be in the AAC and the AAC would have a 35 million dollar deal and Boise and everyone else would still be ahead. That would be a premium, not some league redistributing their deal to pay one team more than the others.

 

[UConnDan97]

They have struck gold 3 times. Anytime a school gets a great coach 3 times in a row, they are getting lucky. And again, they take all the great players that can't read while we can't take players that are even marginal.

As far as your "a few million" comment, it isn't a few million, its a 20-32 million dollar per year difference. That is massive. It's like Tolland High School trying to compete with UCONN.

First of all, it isn't 20 - 32 million dollars different. UConn's revenues this past year for the athletics department were what, something like 60+ million? You believe that BC is making 85 million? Our conference tv contract is 18 million lower (not 20-32), however, we still have contracts with IMG, Nike, SNY (women), as well as the exit fee money, NCAA credits, etc. Now you wanna show me again how it is 20 -32 million dollars different?

As for the "struck gold 3 times"......what can I say about that comment. Really...

 

[UConnDan97]

If Boise brought 14 million in value themselves they would be in the AAC and the AAC would have a 35 million dollar deal and Boise and everyone else would still be ahead. That would be a premium, not some league redistributing their deal to pay one team more than the others.

This is my point. A 35 million dollar deal with 14 teams would equate to 2.5 million for the Big East. However, Boise right now is going to get I believe 2.5 million from the CBS/ESPN contract, PLUS they are going to be able to sell home football games, PLUS they get a bonus 300k for every time they appear on a national broadcast:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-san-diego-states-contract-with-mountain-west

So yes, I agree with your assessment that it would have been a 35 million dollar contract. No, I don't agree with your assessment that it means Boise would be in the AAC...

 

[woomba]

This is my point. A 35 million dollar deal with 14 teams would equate to 2.5 million for the Big East. However, Boise right now is going to get I believe 2.5 million from the CBS/ESPN contract, PLUS they are going to be able to sell home football games, PLUS they get a bonus 300k for every time they appear on a national broadcast:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-san-diego-states-contract-with-mountain-west

So yes, I agree with your assessment that it would have been a 35 million dollar contract. No, I don't agree with your assessment that it means Boise would be in the AAC...

You're quoting an article whose numbers are old - the final fixed contract was smaller. The link I posted earlier has the correct figures.

The CSB/ESPN contract is only worth $1M per school and they have created a $6M annual pot for nationally broadcast games. Since Boise State has a guaranteed minimum of 3 games annually, they will clear around $2.1-$2.5M annually like I stated earlier. Technically BSU can clear up to $4M annually if every single one of their home games is broadcast on Saturday but that's not realistic nor the expectation.

The whole BSU's home games thing is confusing but basically it got rolled into the ESPN contract instead of being part of the original CBS contract so those numbers are all-in. Then from the ESPN contract they created the $6M bonus pool from which Boise is guaranteed at least 3 games from.

The only thing I think they haven't done yet is contracting out the rights to the MWC Championship game so I guess you can add another few 100k to that final number later.

 

[UConnDan97]

You're quoting an article whose numbers are old - the final fixed contract was smaller. The link I posted earlier has the correct figures.

The CSB/ESPN contract is only worth $1M per school and they have created a $6M annual pot for nationally broadcast games. Since Boise State has a guaranteed minimum of 3 games annually, they will clear around $2.1-$2.5M annually like I stated earlier. Technically BSU can clear up to $4M annually if every single one of their home games is broadcast on Saturday but that's not realistic nor the expectation.

The whole BSU's home games thing is confusing but basically it got rolled into the ESPN contract instead of being part of the original CBS contract so those numbers are all-in. Then from the ESPN contract they created the $6M bonus pool from which Boise is guaranteed at least 3 games from.

The only thing I think they haven't done yet is contracting out the rights to the MWC Championship game so I guess you can add another few 100k to that final number later.

Okay, so if I go with your article (which I'm fine with, because it is from the Idaho Statesman which covers Boise State), we are STILL looking at revenues for Boise greater than 2.5 million dollars! That's my point!

And the fact that they can get up to 4 million dollars, while the other teams in the league will only get about 1.2-1.4, tells you everything you need to know about Boise State's premium. On top of the fact that, as you've mentioned, they will likely get a few hundred thousand for the championship game, as well as the fact that the rest of their athletic teams do not have to be in the Big West, and it's clear why they are not in the AAC. And it's NOT because they wouldn't have added value...

 

[Hoophound]

First of all, it isn't 20 - 32 million dollars different. UConn's revenues this past year for the athletics department were what, something like 60+ million? You believe that BC is making 85 million? Our conference tv contract is 18 million lower (not 20-32), however, we still have contracts with IMG, Nike, SNY (women), as well as the exit fee money, NCAA credits, etc. Now you wanna show me again how it is 20 -32 million dollars different?

As for the "struck gold 3 times"......what can I say about that comment. Really...

Dan,
I'm not really trying to argue with you but....my 20-30 million comment is in reference to all the major conferences, not just the ACC. I know the B1G, B12 and SEC pay more than the ACC but im not sure exactly how much. Either way, the difference is staggering.

In regard to Boise, I consider their coaching hires good luck because I can't even think of another top program that has had 3 highly successful coaches in a row. Especially, one that doesn't pay huge money.

 

[woomba]

Okay, so if I go with your article (which I'm fine with, because it is from the Idaho Statesman which covers Boise State), we are STILL looking at revenues for Boise greater than 2.5 million dollars! That's my point!

And the fact that they can get up to 4 million dollars, while the other teams in the league will only get about 1.2-1.4, tells you everything you need to know about Boise State's premium. On top of the fact that, as you've mentioned, they will likely get a few hundred thousand for the championship game, as well as the fact that the rest of their athletic teams do not have to be in the Big West, and it's clear why they are not in the AAC. And it's NOT because they wouldn't have added value...

I'm not disagreeing with you in that they wouldn't have added value - I just don't think it would've added enough to justify jumping ship after MWC's renegotiation which essentially pays AAC-like numbers.

Also, the team that Boise plays against will also get that bonus pot (as well as the occasional national broadcasts from other MWC team), so the gap between the teams won't be that large . Essentially what will happen is that the top 3-4 teams in the MWC will clear a bit over $2M annually while the bottom feeders will clear closer to $1M.