ESPN reporting again on Pac 16

[freescooter]

According to Len robbins in the NY post the Big East is looking at going to the 12-20 model. Adding Kansas, K-State and Missouri then breaking football into 2 divisions: East-UCONN, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, West virginia, south florida, and WEST: TCU, missouri, kansas, K-State, Cincinatti, and Louisville. Basketball would be 4 5-team divisions. Each team would play home-home within its division, then 2 of the other 3 each year on a rotating basis. He didn't identify the divisions, but my guess is they would try to keep long time rivals together as much as possible. They also didn't have any details for the tournament. I don't love it, but I've seen far worse proposals. No doubt people will whine the years when we don't play Georgetown or Villanova but that's life. the idea of playing Kansas and Missouri doesn't sound too bad to me. Alas, we still have to play St Johns and Seton hall under this proposal, though with luck we get a break every few years.

 

[alexd]

...Mizzou, Kansas and KSU......sure beats ECU, Temple & UCF....

I'd take that in a heart beat and like freescooter said, a clean break away from the hoops-only schools would be clean down the road.

I do wonder, after reading Robbins' article wether it would be as easy as he states. He commented that the hoops only schools know that if they don't vote in favor of adding these 3 schools (in order to get the 75% required), the football schools would break off now. At least if they vote "yes" now, they can stay with the big name schools like Cuse, UCONN, LVille, WVU...at least for the time being.

 

[babysheep]

These discussions are the saddest discussions ever. The fact that our conference, which was built to be the premier basketball conference can (and probably will eventually) be so easily manipulated for the sake of pleasing football fans and competing with other conferences with decent football, all for the sake of making ridiculous amounts of money, is depressing. I really don't want to lose ND or G'town or Marquette or Nova (although I've heard they're trying to join the Big East in football).

 

[upstater]

These discussions are the saddest discussions ever. The fact that our conference, which was built to be the premier basketball conference can (and probably will eventually) be so easily manipulated for the sake of pleasing football fans and competing with other conferences with decent football, all for the sake of making ridiculous amounts of money, is depressing. I really don't want to lose ND or G'town or Marquette or Nova (although I've heard they're trying to join the Big East in football).

When other conferences have bigger budgets, and can build better facilities, and spend more money on recruiting and coaches' pay, how are you going to compete with them in the long-term?

 

[Waquoit]

...Mizzou, Kansas and KSU......sure beats ECU, Temple & UCF....

I'd take that in a heart beat and like freescooter said, a clean break away from the hoops-only schools would be clean down the road.

I do wonder, after reading Robbins' article wether it would be as easy as he states. He commented that the hoops only schools know that if they don't vote in favor of adding these 3 schools (in order to get the 75% required), the football schools would break off now. At least if they vote "yes" now, they can stay with the big name schools like Cuse, UCONN, LVille, WVU...at least for the time being.

Adding the 3 Big 12 schools would be the best fit we can hope for.

 

[babysheep]

When other conferences have bigger budgets, and can build better facilities, and spend more money on recruiting and coaches' pay, how are you going to compete with them in the long-term?

I understand the realistic side of this whole scenario. It doesn't make it any less depressing. Kinda like when you're dating a girl who you love from another state and you realize that the logistics of the relationship are just not going to work out.

 

[EricLA]

i don't get why this is sad. i care first and foremost about UCONN. i don't give a about the old hoops rivalries. if the FB schools split off, UCONN can schedule OOC games with Nova, Georgetown, and whoever else they want. from a $ and cents perspective, football drives the bus. that's where the $$ is to be made. if hoops was much more profitable, we'd be making decisions on what was best for the hoops program.

 

[Scot-e]

It's change- but change is not always bad. Anything will take time to get used to- we are set in our ways and you have to change with the times or get left behind- not all that sad just the facts of college sports being a business as much as anything else.

 

[freescooter]

These discussions are the saddest discussions ever. The fact that our conference, which was built to be the premier basketball conference can (and probably will eventually) be so easily manipulated for the sake of pleasing football fans and competing with other conferences with decent football, all for the sake of making ridiculous amounts of money, is depressing. I really don't want to lose ND or G'town or Marquette or Nova (although I've heard they're trying to join the Big East in football).

It was built for another era...the differences among the big football schools and the basketball schools are much more significant now, to say nothing of the fact that major conferences are built around football now. That the Big East has lasted as long as it has givin the changing models is pretty amazing. For good or ill, the days when conference affiliation meant anything more than a source of a paycheck are long gone...at least since the creation of the B-12, certainly with the ACC raid in 2003.

 

[EricLA]

It was built for another era...the differences among the big football schools and the basketball schools are much more significant now, to say nothing of the fact that major conferences are built around football now. That the Big East has lasted as long as it has givin the changing models is pretty amazing. For good or ill, the days when conference affiliation meant anything more than a source of a paycheck are long gone...at least since the creation of the B-12, certainly with the ACC raid in 2003.

u said it better than i did. i was like "screw the basketball rivalries.". they will survive OOC if necessary. and if the football conference is good enough, there will always be great games to be had...

 

[ctchamps]

It was built for another era...the differences among the big football schools and the basketball schools are much more significant now, to say nothing of the fact that major conferences are built around football now. That the Big East has lasted as long as it has givin the changing models is pretty amazing. For good or ill, the days when conference affiliation meant anything more than a source of a paycheck are long gone...at least since the creation of the B-12, certainly with the ACC raid in 2003.

Let's add some B12 teams or some ACC teams to the football only schools. Who are they going to get? The dregs that no other viable football conference wanted. How does that improve things. And meanwhile the basketball conference could be made weaker to configure it.

Well if your premise is correct, and I believe it is, then what makes you believe the football only schools with any combo of ACC or B12 add ons is viable. That new conference relative to the SEC, Pac 12 and the B1G would still be a weak sister treading water. That incarnation will fall further and further behind the revenues race to the other three. And if upstater is correct, that the revenue race is paramount in maintaining premier programs, the football schools of the BE will lose whether they stay merged with the bb schools or separate from them. It may buy some time, but the outcome looks inevitable.

The only positive thing for UConn from a football standpoint is to get an invite to the B1G and that won't be happening. You are advocating a paycheck to be divided among a smaller group of players and that will bump up UConn's take in the short run. But as the other three conferences gain more and more traction the BE, or whatever version the football schools ends up as a group, will become less and less relevant football wise. And they will not have the basketball brand to support it.

 

[Sportsman5]

Adding schools from the mid west would help some in recruiting. The 3 schools from the B12 would also help to strengthen basketball as well. The football programs besides sf and tcu are all very good basketball programs. In the last 10 years Cincinnati and Rutgers have struggled some, but both have potential to be very strong programs in the future given their locations in Ohio and New Jersey. The final 8 schools have been some of the top programs in the country the past 5 years. Most have been great programs the last 25+ years, and 2 blue bloods are included. With the 12 team conference I think the big east would still have 5-8 teams ranked in the top 25 each year. Kansas, UConn, Syracuse, Louisville, and Pittsburgh should make the NCAA tournament almost every year and West Virginia, K-state, and Missouri will be in most years. If Missouri and K-state get a little boost in recruiting from being in the big east, than they could become national powers. Although I like the current big east, many of the worst basketball programs don't contribute to football and water down basketball. I think it would be easier to get a large contract for basketball if the top teams played each other more often and the big 12 football programs should contribute to securing a fairly lucrative football contract in the future.

 

[babysheep]

I'm probably just naiive because I have not been watching college sports for nearly as long as most of you guys.

 

[willie99]

I kinda like the 12/20 scenario, but in hoops I would just play everybody 1 time each year, 19 games.

one year you have 10 home games, the next year 9

 

[Dann]

^ we would play 20 games, 1 rival game for more tv$$$(home and home for that one series). wvu-pitt, cuse-gtown, uconn-sju, kan-kst etc...

 

[freescooter]

Let's add some B12 teams or some ACC teams to the football only schools. Who are they going to get? The dregs that no other viable football conference wanted. How does that improve things. And meanwhile the basketball conference could be made weaker to configure it.

Well if your premise is correct, and I believe it is, then what makes you believe the football only schools with any combo of ACC or B12 add ons is viable. That new conference relative to the SEC, Pac 12 and the B1G would still be a weak sister treading water. That incarnation will fall further and further behind the revenues race to the other three. And if upstater is correct, that the revenue race is paramount in maintaining premier programs, the football schools of the BE will lose whether they stay merged with the bb schools or separate from them. It may buy some time, but the outcome looks inevitable.

The only positive thing for UConn from a football standpoint is to get an invite to the B1G and that won't be happening. You are advocating a paycheck to be divided among a smaller group of players and that will bump up UConn's take in the short run. But as the other three conferences gain more and more traction the BE, or whatever version the football schools ends up as a group, will become less and less relevant football wise. And they will not have the basketball brand to support it.

If we buy your analysis, then the whole football upgrade was a huge mistake, and we might as well cut our losses now and drop the sport or at least go back to 1AA. I'm sure they can find something else to do with Rentschler Field...If we get Missouri, Kansas and K-state we get 2 very vialbe football programs with lots of history and a real baksetball blueblood. We lose maybe Georgetown and villanova, and Marquette, but I'm not sure the latter brings all that much to the Big East. And please don't cry me a river about St Johns...the Big East's emergence as the basketball power conference occurred without the Johnny's making any significant contribution. They had a nice run last season, but hardly the stuff of legends, and prior to that had been nothing more than a hanger on for years. They actually moved some games out of the Garden because they couldn't sell tickets. And I know you don't want it to be so, but this is as it has been since at least 2003 about football. that is what matters in these conference alignments. Trying to preserve a basletball league is comparable to trying to preserve the stagecoach as the primary means of cross country travel.

 

[babysheep]

Katz said in his chat today that he would be surprised if UConn didn't join the ACC if the ACC decides to expand.

 

[EricLA]

Katz said in his chat today that he would be surprised if UConn didn't join the ACC if the ACC decides to expand.

why? would we be thinking something better will come along?

 

[babysheep]

why? would we be thinking something better will come along?

Maybe he thinks that we think that the Big East gets in more trouble the more teams start considering leaving the Big 12. Maybe we think that the better football schools want to ultimately leave the Big East (WVU, USF) and we want to get out before other teams start taking up space in other conferences (although that would suck for TCU since they're just joining the conference next year). The ACC isn't the SEC but its football is certainly better than the Big East.

 

[EricLA]

Maybe he thinks that we think that the Big East gets in more trouble the more teams start considering leaving the Big 12. Maybe we think that the better football schools want to ultimately leave the Big East (WVU, USF) and we want to get out before other teams start taking up space in other conferences (although that would suck for TCU since they're just joining the conference next year). The ACC isn't the SEC but its football is certainly better than the Big East.

my bad. i thought you originally said "he thought UCONN would NOT join the ACC if asked".

 

[babysheep]

my bad. i thought you originally said "he thought UCONN would NOT join the ACC if asked".

Took me a double-take too at first. He also thinks Cuse would join as well

 

[babysheep]

Honestly though the whole situation gets super complicated by those three Big 12 teams' alleged possible desire to join the Big East. That would put us at 20 teams, and then would make us at least somewhat better at all sports. KU and KState don't really bring much as far as football goes, do they?

 

[Danzz]

KSttae will be going wherever Kansas goes.

 

[babysheep]

Probably, but does that really help our football much? I understand Mizzou is pretty good at football, but KU went 1-7 in conference last year and K State went 3-5. I understand that the Big 12 is alot better at football, but 2-6, 3-5 sounds like how well UConn would play in that conference. If the objective is ultimately beefing up our football to save our conference, why would we take all three of these teams? And if this happens, and the conference becomes 20 teams strong, a breakup is absolutely imminent, and it will probably mean us losing non-BE football schools. That means we lose SJ, G'Town, Nova, and ND to name a few (the rest suck, but still).

 

[ctchamps]

If we buy your analysis, then the whole football upgrade was a huge mistake, and we might as well cut our losses now and drop the sport or at least go back to 1AA. I'm sure they can find something else to do with Rentschler Field...If we get Missouri, Kansas and K-state we get 2 very vialbe football programs with lots of history and a real baksetball blueblood. We lose maybe Georgetown and villanova, and Marquette, but I'm not sure the latter brings all that much to the Big East. And please don't cry me a river about St Johns...the Big East's emergence as the basketball power conference occurred without the Johnny's making any significant contribution. They had a nice run last season, but hardly the stuff of legends, and prior to that had been nothing more than a hanger on for years. They actually moved some games out of the Garden because they couldn't sell tickets. And I know you don't want it to be so, but this is as it has been since at least 2003 about football. that is what matters in these conference alignments. Trying to preserve a basletball league is comparable to trying to preserve the stagecoach as the primary means of cross country travel.

The BE is to bb what the SEC is to football. Sure it can be tweaked to be better. But why. Keep the strongest bb confernce intact and add to the football side to give it stregnth. I guess I don't see any of the teams you list as football bluebloods. I do see Kansas and to a lesser extent Mizzou as bb blue bloods but I'm not comfortable giving up Georgetown, Nova, Marquette or St. John's. They enhance the conference. Add Mizzou, and Kansas to the current BE and the conference would be incredible in bb.