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ESPN Names Their All Americans

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I agree with the first team, though I thought Bria's play the past 2 months was as good as anyones and might get her on the first team. I certainly agree with Bria, Stef, and Jewell on the second team. I'm not sure about the other 2 slots.

Sims--Senior
Thomas--Senior
Ogwumike--Senior
McBride--Senior
Stewart--Sophomore. YIKES!
 
UConnCat said:
Liston over Dolson? What? Make that case.
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17.3 points per game, 5.2 rebounds from the guard spot, 52% FG, 48% 3pt, 85% free throws. She's been the nation's best shooter. Considering how much adversity Duke has faced, it is pretty remarkable how efficient she has been all season. She has put up some big numbers in big games (23 vs. Notre Dame, 17 against UNC in the ACC Tournament, 28 @ Kentucky,

Dolson averaged 12.4 points, 9 rebounds, 3.3 assists and a couple of blocks per game. Efficient scorer from the floor (56% FG, and she shoots with range) but she hasn't had to shoulder as big a load as Liston. Very steady all season, but no huge games this year and she hasn't been relied upon as a go to scorer for UCONN like Liston has for Duke. I think she is a better player and is the strongest center in the nation, but based on performances this season I'd give the edge to Liston who has been Duke's go to player all season.
 
stwainfan said:
MVP of SECT was Harrison. She was impressive.
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If anyone from Tennessee would be in consideration, it should hands down be Harrison. At this point I'd label her as a 3rd Team All-American (Top 15 player.) She has been stellar this year. I really thought that Russell/Graves would displace Harrison but Isabelle has been a work horse on the glass and shown a strong post game. 14 points, 9 rebounds and 58.5% FG for the #3 or #4 team in the country. With Simmons gone next year I'd look for Harrison/Graves to get more looks next year and Tennessee to be post oriented.
 
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bballnut90 said:
17.3 points per game, 5.2 rebounds from the guard spot, 52% FG, 48% 3pt, 85% free throws. She's been the nation's best shooter. Considering how much adversity Duke has faced, it is pretty remarkable how efficient she has been all season. She has put up some big numbers in big games (23 vs. Notre Dame, 17 against UNC in the ACC Tournament, 28 @ Kentucky,

Dolson averaged 12.4 points, 9 rebounds, 3.3 assists and a couple of blocks per game. Efficient scorer from the floor (56% FG, and she shoots with range) but she hasn't had to shoulder as big a load as Liston. Very steady all season, but no huge games this year and she hasn't been relied upon as a go to scorer for UCONN like Liston has for Duke. I think she is a better player and is the strongest center in the nation, but based on performances this season I'd give the edge to Liston who has been Duke's go to player all season.
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Yeah, that triple double 24/14/11 against Oregon was a mediocre game, huh. 25/12 against UCF. There were others.

Dolson had 113 assists from the center position while Liston had only 53 from the guard position with 75 TO's.

Averaging almost a double double is very impressive.

Dolson is the right call here.
 
bballnut90 said:
If anyone from Tennessee would be in consideration, it should hands down be Harrison. At this point I'd label her as a 3rd Team All-American (Top 15 player.) She has been stellar this year. I really thought that Russell/Graves would displace Harrison but Isabelle has been a work horse on the glass and shown a strong post game. 14 points, 9 rebounds and 58.5% FG for the #3 or #4 team in the country. With Simmons gone next year I'd look for Harrison/Graves to get more looks next year and Tennessee to be post oriented.
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Ha ha..... what is it with the Vols (and their fans) with the hands down ? ;)
 
bballnut90 said:
17.3 points per game, 5.2 rebounds from the guard spot, 52% FG, 48% 3pt, 85% free throws. She's been the nation's best shooter. Considering how much adversity Duke has faced, it is pretty remarkable how efficient she has been all season. She has put up some big numbers in big games (23 vs. Notre Dame, 17 against UNC in the ACC Tournament, 28 @ Kentucky,

Dolson averaged 12.4 points, 9 rebounds, 3.3 assists and a couple of blocks per game. Efficient scorer from the floor (56% FG, and she shoots with range) but she hasn't had to shoulder as big a load as Liston. Very steady all season, but no huge games this year and she hasn't been relied upon as a go to scorer for UCONN like Liston has for Duke. I think she is a better player and is the strongest center in the nation, but based on performances this season I'd give the edge to Liston who has been Duke's go to player all season.
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I think your approach punishes Dolson because she happens to play with 3 other current or former All-Americans, including the best player in the game. Having said that, I don't agree with you that Liston has shouldered a bigger load than Dolson. When you consider every aspect of the game (scoring, rebounding, defending, assisting teammates) Dolson actually does more for her team.

Dolson is one of the most versatile players in the country. UConn runs its offense through her and she plays a huge role in the success of her teammates. There is no college player who reverses the ball better than Dolson, nor is there a better screener in the women's game. From the center position Dolson has 113 assists, more than double that of Liston (53), a guard. Defensively, Dolson directs UConn's defense and is the team's best rebounder (9.2/gm) and a very respectable shot-blocker (76 for the season). She has become a very good defender, having proven her mettle against Ogwumike and Williams.

I like Tricia Liston a lot and admire what she's done this year. She entered college as a great shooter and has become a better all-around player and scorer. She is just not the complete basketball player that Dolson is.
 
ndmb said:
OK, so granted, I'm a homer, but look at these stats (adjusted to per 40 minutes of play):

Player A: 21.9 Points, 39% FG, 37% 3PT, 80% FT, 5.58 Rebounds, 4.71 Assists, 3.26 TO, 1.44 A/TO, 1.40 SPG
Player B: 13.7 Points, 58% FG, 40% 3PT, 76% FT, 4.41 Rebounds, 6.88 Assists, 2.39 TO, 3.07 A/TO, 3.56 SPG

Does 8 points and 1 rebound per forty minutes really make up for a 20 point field goal percentage difference, 2 extra assists, 1 fewer turnovers, twice as good an A/TO, and two extra steals per game? I'm really not a fan of the efficiency stat, but above, Moriah averages an efficiency per 40 of 21.62, which is more than 30% more than Schimmel's 16.56.

I'd give it to Moriah over Schimmel in a heartbeat.
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Yes.

I love Moriah..and I'd certainly take her on this team over Schimmel because of what she brings. But one of the two is the fifth option, and the other is the first option. They play with completely different set of teammates, so Moriah's efficiency should be significantly higher (as should her assists.).
 
stwainfan said:
Simmons and Harrison all SEC.
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That says it all Stwainfan. An impartial, knowledgeable group didn't pick a single SEC tournament champion player. Lmao
 
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blackbird said:
Yes.

I love Moriah..and I'd certainly take her on this team over Schimmel because of what she brings. But one of the two is the fifth option, and the other is the first option. They play with completely different set of teammates, so Moriah's efficiency should be significantly higher (as should her assists.).
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A couple of things.

First, you could flip your entire statement around and it would still be true:

"I love Shoni. But one of two is the first option, and the other is the fifth. They play with a completely different set of teammates, so Shoni's scoring should be higher (as should her rebounds)."

But that statement would still be missing something critical, which is that your post exclusively looks at the offensive side of the ball, which is only half the equation. Moriah is one of the premier defensive guards in the country and Shoni is not. And while Moriah's been guarding her, Schimmel performed poorly on offense.

On the offensive end, there is a trade-off between shooting percentage and overall output. If Moriah traded places with Schimmel, and was expected to be the leading scoring option, would her percentage drop a lot? Of course. Would it go down to 37%? Probably not. What I can say is that Moriah would have a lot more to offer offensively than simply scoring, given that she is a more willing distributor, quicker, a better ball handler, a better passer, less turnover prone, and makes better decisions with the ball. Statistically, it's also relevant that (as far as I can recall), Jefferson has a better shooting percentage and better A/TO than any guard in UConn history, and it's not close.

Schimmel is not an example of a player who simply must chuck up shots because her team needs her to (as the case could be made for Sugar Rodgers or Angel McCoughtry when they were in college). Bria Smith, Sarah Hammond, Antonita Slaughter, Jude Schimmel, and Asia Taylor aren't exactly chopped liver. Instead, Schimmel finds herself a volume shooter because her shooting is the only thing which sets her apart from her teammates.

I think that most voters and fan tend to get too caught up in looking at Schimmel's 17 PPG and Moriah's 10 PPG. I also think that, when you look at it holistically, Jefferson is the much better player with the more impressive performance to prove it.
 
Jefferson will get a chance to show how great she is next year, but the fact of the matter is, teams plan their defenses around stopping Schimmel. Jefferson is probably the last player on UConn defenses think about guarding (when KML is in the lineup). And even UConn fans in this post said UConn runs their offense through Dolson. Schimmel also has experience winning games for her team. The Louisville game in the tourney last year comes to mind first, but she scored the go ahead bucket against USF in the AAC tourney as well.

Jefferson will get plenty of awards next year, but I think ESPN made the right call here.
 
bbsamjj said:
Jefferson will get a chance to show how great she is next year, but the fact of the matter is, teams plan their defenses around stopping Schimmel. Jefferson is probably the last player on UConn defenses think about guarding (when KML is in the lineup). And even UConn fans in this post said UConn runs their offense through Dolson. Schimmel also has experience winning games for her team. The Louisville game in the tourney last year comes to mind first, but she scored the go ahead bucket against USF in the AAC tourney as well.

Jefferson will get plenty of awards next year, but I think ESPN made the right call here.
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Putting aside for a second that your post also completely ignores the defensive end of the floor, Jefferson has a better shooting percentage (by a lot) and a better A/TO (by a lot) than any guard that we've had at UConn. What exactly are you waiting for her to show you next year to prove that she's great? By the way, she's shooting 65% from 2, which is better than Tina Charles did in her senior year. Better than Ogwumike now.

Do you disagree that Jefferson is the better defender, more willing distributor, quicker, better ball handler, better finisher around the rim (see 65% shooting from 2), better passer, less turnover prone, and makes better decisions with the ball, or do you think that shooting ability is more important than all of the above? And if you're basing your decision on shooting ability and PPG alone, is 39% shooting (on a team that has some offensive talent outside of Schimmel) really enough to be an All American?
 
according to the survey on that page Tenn has the best chance to win the Championship... besides UConn or Notre Dame
 
bballnut90 said:
If anyone from Tennessee would be in consideration, it should hands down be Harrison. At this point I'd label her as a 3rd Team All-American (Top 15 player.) She has been stellar this year. I really thought that Russell/Graves would displace Harrison but Isabelle has been a work horse on the glass and shown a strong post game. 14 points, 9 rebounds and 58.5% FG for the #3 or #4 team in the country. With Simmons gone next year I'd look for Harrison/Graves to get more looks next year and Tennessee to be post oriented.
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I actually think our posts will probably get about the same amount of looks next year, except Graves will capitalize more hopefully, and Mercedes may get some extra looks as she becomes more physical and get more clean seals down low. I look for us to do a lot of drive and kick and inside-out play next year with the additions of Tucker, Middleton, Nared and Dunbar and the return of Massengale. Add in Carter's excellent 3 pt shooting as well as the capability of Reynolds, Burdick, and Jones (though all need much better percentages) and we should be an excellent three point shooting team. Next year will be the most balanced Tennessee team, maybe in history.
 
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VolFan said:
I actually think our posts will probably get about the same amount of looks next year, except Graves will capitalize more hopefully, and Mercedes may get some extra looks as she becomes more physical and get more clean seals down low. I look for us to do a lot of drive and kick and inside-out play next year with the additions of Tucker, Middleton, Nared and Dunbar and the return of Massengale. Add in Carter's excellent 3 pt shooting as well as the capability of Reynolds, Burdick, and Jones (though all need much better percentages) and we should be an excellent three point shooting team. Next year will be the most balanced Tennessee team, maybe in history.
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Tennessee will definitely have more threats. I just hope Holly makes a point to pound the ball into the post more regularly. With pass oriented guards in Massengale/Carter, I'd look for Tennessee's posts to get more looks than with Simmons in the backcourt.
 
ndmb said:
Putting aside for a second that your post also completely ignores the defensive end of the floor, Jefferson has a better shooting percentage (by a lot) and a better A/TO (by a lot) than any guard that we've had at UConn. What exactly are you waiting for her to show you next year to prove that she's great? By the way, she's shooting 65% from 2, which is better than Tina Charles did in her senior year. Better than Ogwumike now.

Do you disagree that Jefferson is the better defender, more willing distributor, quicker, better ball handler, better finisher around the rim (see 65% shooting from 2), better passer, less turnover prone, and makes better decisions with the ball, or do you think that shooting ability is more important than all of the above? And if you're basing your decision on shooting ability and PPG alone, is 39% shooting (on a team that has some offensive talent outside of Schimmel) really enough to be an All American?
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Are you saying that Jefferson is a better guard than Bird, Taurasi, Montgomery? Hartley? All of those guards has been asked to do more for UConn than Jefferson has been asked to do this year. All of those guards were go to players for UConn at one point or another. Jefferson isn't even the go-to guard on her own team.


Better defender? Yes
More willing distributor? Um, She is the 5th best option on her team to score. She better be. Schimmel is her team's #1 option.
Quicker? Yes, but a lot people are quicker than Schimmel (or Taurasi for that matter)
Better ball handler? Not sure
Better finisher around the rim? How many of her shots are lay-ups? How many of them are actually contested? It's great that she shoots better than Oguwimke now from 2. Oguwimke has three players around her at all times.
Better passer? I would be a great passer too if my targets were the NPOY, a former #1 HS player, the best center in college, and a 2nd team AA guard
Less TO prone? Probably, but once again, see her targets, and see what she is asked to do on offense versus Schimmel.

I don't think Jefferson is untalented. In fact, I don't necessarily think in the long run that she may be a better player than Schimmel. She is great at what she does--QB a set of the best individual offensive players in the game. But if UConn finds itself in a tight game, I bet you Geno sets up a play for at least 3 different players before he goes to Jefferson.
 
bbsamjj said:
Are you saying that Jefferson is a better guard than Bird, Taurasi, Montgomery? Hartley? All of those guards has been asked to do more for UConn than Jefferson has been asked to do this year. All of those guards were go to players for UConn at one point or another. Jefferson isn't even the go-to guard on her own team.
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Statistically, she is accomplishing something no UCONN guard has ever accomplished.
 
bbsamjj said:
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Are you saying that Jefferson is a better guard than Bird, Taurasi, Montgomery? Hartley? All of those guards has been asked to do more for UConn than Jefferson has been asked to do this year. All of those guards were go to players for UConn at one point or another. Jefferson isn't even the go-to guard on her own team.

What are you talking about? No, she's not currently better than any of the above, but that's because she's not better at just about every facet of the game except for shooting than any of those players.


Better defender? Yes
More willing distributor? Um, She is the 5th best option on her team to score. She better be. Schimmel is her team's #1 option.
Being the number one option on the team does not mean that you need to jack up shot after shot like Schimmel does. If Schimmel wasn't on the same team as Antonita Slaughter, Sara Hammond, Asia Taylor, and Bria Smith, we could talk. If Schimmel was shooting even 45%, we could talk. But she is on an offensively talented team and she's shooting 39% from the field. When your number one option is shooting 4 percentage points worse than the next worst shooter amongst the top 7 scoring threats AND 8 percentage points worse than the rest of the team as a whole, it means that something's wrong with the offense. In this case, one of those things that's wrong with the offense is that, despite being surrounded by a team that is offensively capable, she's not setting up her teammates.

Quicker? Yes, but a lot people are quicker than Schimmel (or Taurasi for that matter)

Better ball handler? Not sure
Well, I'm sure. Moriah is a fantastic ball handler and Schimmel is a decent ball-handler. If you're looking for evidence, think about the fact that Moriah gets to the rim as well as any guard we've had here (which is not merely a function of athleticism, think of Maya whose very impressive ability to get to the rim lagged behind her even more impressive athleticism) and the fact that Schimmel is averaging almost 40% more turnovers per minute while passing less (that's not in the box score, but an eye-test thing).

Better finisher around the rim? How many of her shots are lay-ups? Just so we're clear, when we're talking about finishing around the rim, we're talking primarily about lay-ups. It's not like many of Schimmel's 17 points per game are coming from post moves (although she does have that ability over smaller guards). How many of them are actually contested? A TON. It's great that she shoots better than Oguwimke now from 2. Oguwimke has three players around her at all times. Chiney Oguwmike. Natasha Howard. Natalie Achonwa. Izzy Harrison. Aleighsha Welch. Jennifer Hamson. Jillian Alleyne. Elizabeth Williams. Alyssa Thomas. You know what they all have in common? They're high profile, talented post players who are ranked in the top 50 in overall shooting percentage who all have a lower two-point shooting percentage than our 5'7" guard who, in the words of Geno, looks like she escaped from the 8th grade. That should tell you all you need to know about Moriah's shooting ability. FWIW, on that list, Welch, Hamson, Alleyne, Williams, and Thomas are all behind Moriah in overall shooting percentage.

Better passer? I would be a great passer too if my targets were the NPOY, a former #1 HS player, the best center in college, and a 2nd team AA guard Just look at the two of them play. Moriah's more creative, more accurate, and more prolific in her passing. She's also a better penetrator, which makes her more effective at kicking it out to teammates. Putting it into statistical perspective, Sue Bird is the best point guard in the history of the game. In her senior year, she was distributing to Taurasi, Jones, Williams, and Cash. That year, which won her NPOY, she averaged 1 more assist per 40 minutes than Moriah. I.E., the gap in assists per minute between Schimmel and Jefferson is over twice the gap between Jefferson and Sue Bird as a senior. And, Moriah did it with a much better A/TO than Bird had (3.07 to 2.48).

Less TO prone? Probably, but once again, see her targets, and see what she is asked to do on offense versus Schimmel.
Other than catching ability (which is only responsible for a small percentage of turnovers), who you're passing to doesn't really have that much of an impact on how many turnovers you have. By the way, who's defending you does, and Moriah's played against much tougher competition than Schimmel has.

I don't think Jefferson is untalented. In fact, I don't necessarily think in the long run that she may be a better player than Schimmel. She is great at what she does--QB a set of the best individual offensive players in the game. But if UConn finds itself in a tight game, I bet you Geno sets up a play for at least 3 different players before he goes to Jefferson. In that situation, if Schimmel was playing for UConn, Moriah would probably have the ball in her hands at some point and Schimmel would probably be sitting on the bench.
 
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CLE802A said:
Yep, that's pretty much a travesty. The AP must have some sort of politic or agenda on this one, that I can't figure out. USC's Tiffany Mitchell won the coach's SEC POTY, and was the only unanimous selection by the AP to the All-SEC 1st team. But Simmons wins the AP's POTY??

Between the two, Simmons had the better per-game scoring average (16.2 vs 15.2 ppg) and the better free-throw average (.810% vs .788%), and that's it.

Mitchell had the:

Better rebounding average: (5.5 vs 2.7 rpg)
Better assist average: (3.5 vs 2.3 apg)
Better steals average: (1.9 vs 1.2 spg)
Better blocked shot average: (0.3 vs 0.06 bpg)
Better total FG %: (.508% vs .422%)
Better 3-pt FG %: (.515% vs .359%)
Better turnover/assist ratio: (1.2 vs 0.9)

And even fouled less (56 total fouls, 0 foul-outs vs 61 fouls, 1 foul-out) despite playing more minutes (960 - 31.0 mpg vs 898 - 28.1 mpg).

And generally played the more consistent production throughout the season. AND led her team to her program's first-ever SEC Regular Season Championship, which typically earns higher regard by the AP than winning the SEC tournament. But Simmons wins the AP POTY over Mitchell?

Only explanation I can see was the AP felt USC was hoarding all the awards this season, but they never had such issues with UT teams doing the same in the past....
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I agree completely.
 
How much did the fact that Mitchell only scoring 11 at Tennessee affect the award?
 
CLE802A said:
Yep, that's pretty much a travesty. The AP must have some sort of politic or agenda on this one, that I can't figure out. USC's Tiffany Mitchell won the coach's SEC POTY, and was the only unanimous selection by the AP to the All-SEC 1st team. But Simmons wins the AP's POTY??

Between the two, Simmons had the better per-game scoring average (16.2 vs 15.2 ppg) and the better free-throw average (.810% vs .788%), and that's it.

Mitchell had the:

Better rebounding average: (5.5 vs 2.7 rpg)
Better assist average: (3.5 vs 2.3 apg)
Better steals average: (1.9 vs 1.2 spg)
Better blocked shot average: (0.3 vs 0.06 bpg)
Better total FG %: (.508% vs .422%)
Better 3-pt FG %: (.515% vs .359%)
Better turnover/assist ratio: (1.2 vs 0.9)

And even fouled less (56 total fouls, 0 foul-outs vs 61 fouls, 1 foul-out) despite playing more minutes (960 - 31.0 mpg vs 898 - 28.1 mpg).

And generally played the more consistent production throughout the season. AND led her team to her program's first-ever SEC Regular Season Championship, which typically earns higher regard by the AP than winning the SEC tournament. But Simmons wins the AP POTY over Mitchell?

Only explanation I can see was the AP felt USC was hoarding all the awards this season, but they never had such issues with UT teams doing the same in the past....
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Mitchell should have won the award. If anyone from Tennessee should have received consideration, it was Harrison. Not Simmons.
 
bballnut90 said:
Mitchell should have won the award. If anyone from Tennessee should have received consideration, it was Harrison. Not Simmons.
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Agree! while Simmons did play much better towards the end of the season, Harrison was the best TN player!
 
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