ESPN CBB Greatest of All Time Bracket

[hoophuskee]

We could start a thread about the best college player you ever saw in person (men & women). And who you think was the best ever in college (whether you saw them or not) men & women. Ionescu and Stewart had better be in that discussion. They both have records no other college player has. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Stewie the only player to be named NCAA tournament MVP 4 times?

In my bias view I'd take Stewie, DT, Maya, Holdsclaw and Griner over Ionescu.

 

[Carnac]

In my bias view I'd take Stewie, DT, Maya, Holdsclaw and Griner over Ionescu.

You’re not alone. That’s why a debate of this nature would be so lively. Every player you mentioned should one day be enshrined in the WBB HOF. One or two may make the Naismith HOF. BTW, I had the pleasure of meeting Holdsclaw about 2 years ago at my local gym of all places.

I was the only one there that recognized her. We chatted for a briefly, I didn’t want to bother her. I told her I was a huge WCBB fan. She was very cordial to me despite the fact that I was wearing a UConn hat, that she mentioned she noticed. My UConn gear has sparked a conversation on more than one occasion at the gym.

 

[chrissaran]

hoophuskee, I agree. Men and women are not comparable. The men play above the rim much of the time, the women rarely do. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, just different.

 

[BBallF]

You're just so right The problem goes beyond recency bias. Most people today never saw him play. To many he's just a legend. But to those of us who saw this guy he was a marvel. IMHO he was the greatest athlete to ever play in the Association. All you need do is look at the highlights of him running the floor and your eyes pop out of your head. Yes, even The Greek Freak comes in a distant second...and Wilt is not on the list.

Imagine averaging 50 points and 26 rebounds a game for an entire NBA season in 1962! He was also an unbelievable all around player. In 1968 he led the NBA in assists. He was the greatest passing center in basketball history and no one will ever come close.

 

[BBallF]

We could start a thread about the best college player you ever saw in person (men & women). And who you think was the best ever in college (whether you saw them or not) men & women. Ionescu and Stewart had better be in that discussion. They both have records no other college player has. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Stewie the only player to be named NCAA tournament MVP 4 times? That’s the record I’m thinking of for her, and of course the 2k, 1k, 1k record for Ionescu along with the 25 career triple doubles.

I think the contenders in women's college basketball are Stewart, Taurasi and Cheryl Miller. Taurasi gets my vote because of who wasn't on her team. I love the Geno story about finding her crying in the locker room because of the pressure she knew was on her. She was at her best in the biggest games, except her last game freshman year. Based on her own statements, you could argue that that one terrible game made her the incredible player she became.

 

[asuwish]

Bill Walton #1.....hell no!!

Walton went 21 for 22 in a national championship game. He had 4 dunks disallowed because of a no dunking rule. Ended with 44 point which could have been 50 while only missing 1 shot. He has multiple national titles and I'm not positive if freshmen were able to play back then. I know Freshmen could not play when Jabbar, ok Alcinder was at UCLA. He won 3 titles, and if you don't think he would have won 4 well UCLA won the title when he could not be on the team as a freshman yet he and the other freshmen would beat the national champs in practice. If they playeda real game they would have won. Simply put at 7'2" with a sky hook he was the hardest player to defend ever including Jordan, or Chamberlain. He should best Stewart in the finals of this mock tournament.

 

[BBallF]

Walton went 21 for 22 in a national championship game. He had 4 dunks disallowed because of a no dunking rule. Ended with 44 point which could have been 50 while only missing 1 shot. He has multiple national titles and I'm not positive if freshmen were able to play back then. I know Freshmen could not play when Jabbar, ok Alcinder was at UCLA. He won 3 titles, and if you don't think he would have won 4 well UCLA won the title when he could not be on the team as a freshman yet he and the other freshmen would beat the national champs in practice. If they playeda real game they would have won. Simply put at 7'2" with a sky hook he was the hardest player to defend ever including Jordan, or Chamberlain. He should best Stewart in the finals of this mock tournament.

Walton could not play as a freshman. The rule allowed freshmen in Division 1 to play for the 1972-1973 season (Division 3 allowed it in 1968-1969). Walton was a freshman in the 1970-1971 season and graduated in 1974, after North Carolina State with David Thompson upset UCLA in the national semis. The Wolfpack went on to win the NC and break the UCLA streak of 7 in a row. The Bruins came back the next year, Wooden's last, to win it again. Incidentally, no one ever said that the UCLA teams were "bad" for college basketball even though they won 10 NCs in 12 years. In fact it was the opposite. The UCLA-Houston game in the Astrodome is long considered to be "The Game of the Century" that made college basketball a national game ( it was blacked out in Houston even though the Dome was sold out and Houstonians drove as much as a hundred miles to watch the game ). It was the first college basketball game broadcast nationally during primetime. Interestingly, The Game was January 20, 1968. Some 27 years later in the same month, on the 16th to be exact, the women's version of The Game took place in Storrs when UCONN beat Tennessee. The UCLA "dynasty" lasted from 1964-1975. UCONN started its own in 1995 and it is still going, The New York Times and other "dissers" notwithstanding. With our recruits and returnees, we should be "bad" for women's basketball for the foreseeable future.

 

[bluedevil]

Waited for hours at Cameron to watch David Thompson play....just needed my student ID to get in and brought my books to study.....well worth it!

 

[hoophuskee]

The best men's players I saw ever were--

not in order:

Walton, David Thompson, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Laettner, Sampson, Ewing, Olajuwon and Jordan. Never saw Alcindor and anyone before him play in college. Hard for me to say who I thought was greatest on this grouping because of my age and not able to see most of them many times.

But I did see Walton's incredible game on TV. And while I loved basketball I was not much a national fan-- primarily I was all UCONN- but then Magic and Bird appeared . . . And as for Jordan I never thought he'd be as great as he was but felt/knew he would be really great. There was one game in which Dean Smith spread out the offense (4 corners) and had Jordan with the ball at near halfcourt and he would just drive -- the other team had no shot. I knew from watching that he would be great.

I can remember on draft day wishing Portland would take Jordan so he and Drexler could team up. In part, Portland got too worried about defending Jabbar and took Sam Bowie instead. Baaaaaaaaad move . . .

 

[hoophuskee]

For the women I go with the following - never saw Miller or Swoopes and Myers and Donovan etc play. Only saw "seconds" of EDD and Stiles so I don't know where to put them. And ofc I'm bias:

1-- Stewie.
2-- DT
3-- Maya
4-- Parker
5- Holdsclaw
6-- Griner
7-- Catchings
8-- Ionescu

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Imagine averaging 50 points and 26 rebounds a game for an entire NBA season in 1962! He was also an unbelievable all around player. In 1968 he led the NBA in assists. He was the greatest passing center in basketball history and no one will ever come close.

One small reason Wilt had those astonishing numbers is that he was always in the game. The guy never came out, never fouled out, never needed a rest. In the 1962 season he did the impossible: He averaged more minutes per game (48.5) than there were than there were minutes played (48). Let that sink in.

 

[UCFBfan]

Maya is getting crushed by Steph and it isn't fair. People are remembering his Pro career and not college. It's interesting though. If you look at all the comments, every one, minus one or two, call the results a sham and that Maya was by far the better college player.

Dunno if she'll overcome the deficit but it was nice to see tons of comments supporting her.

 

[BBallF]

The best men's players I saw ever were--

not in order:

Walton, David Thompson, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Laettner, Sampson, Ewing, Olajuwon and Jordan. Never saw Alcindor and anyone before him play in college. Hard for me to say who I thought was greatest on this grouping because of my age and not able to see most of them many times.

But I did see Walton's incredible game on TV. And while I loved basketball I was not much a national fan-- primarily I was all UCONN- but then Magic and Bird appeared . . . And as for Jordan I never thought he'd be as great as he was but felt/knew he would be really great. There was one game in which Dean Smith spread out the offense (4 corners) and had Jordan with the ball at near halfcourt and he would just drive -- the other team had no shot. I know from watching that he would be great.

I can remember on draft day wishing Portland would take Jordan so he and Drexler could team up. In part, Portland got too worried about defending Jabbar and took Sam Bowie instead. Baaaaaaaaad move . . .

Considered perhaps the worst ever draft move and rightly so. When Jordan left after his junior year he was the National Player of the Year and his team went nowhere. Gotta read the signs.

 

[hoophuskee]

Considered perhaps the worst ever draft move and rightly so. When Jordan left after his junior year he was the National Player of the Year and his team went nowhere. Gotta read the signs.

Part of the reason why I don't like the philosophy of "hunker down and win with defense." You need to have both offense and defense. This myth that "defense wins" is an old tale. You win with both. It should've been pretty obvious a Jordan/Drexler duo would have been one tough combo to beat even if they might've been eventually taken out by "size." Sound familiar?

 

[BBallF]

Part of the reason why I don't like the philosophy of "hunker down and win with defense." You need to have both offense and defense. This myth that "defense wins" is an old tale. You win with both. It should've been pretty obvious a Jordan/Drexler duo would have been one tough combo to beat even if they might've been eventually taken out by "size." Sound familiar?

And the great irony of course is that Jordan also became All NBA on defense first team 9 times and defensive player of the year once.

 

[FairView]

Personally I'd rather do a bracket of top desserts... or sandwiches

Actually, ESPN is doing that next. But it's one bracket with both desserts and sandwiches.

 

[FridaFriend]

I was really disappointed that JJ Redick eliminated Sheryl Swoopes. I watched the 1993 championship game again between her Texas Tech team and Ohio State. Texas Tech won 84-82 and she scored 47, maybe the greatest performance in a championship game. She scored 177 points in the 5 game NCAA tournament. Cynthia Cooper and Tina Thompson, Sheryl teammates on the Houston Comets, weren't even mentioned in the 64 teams. Several of the men in this so-called 'g.o.a.t.' bracket only played college ball for a year.

 

[asuwish]

Considered perhaps the worst ever draft move and rightly so. When Jordan left after his junior year he was the National Player of the Year and his team went nowhere. Gotta read the signs.

to be fair many thought Drexler, a future hall of famer, was Jordan, he was Cylde the glide after all, and had that position filled. They did not have a center and Sam was considered very talented, but unfortunately also fragile which turned out to be true. If you wanted a post player, after Hakeem who went #1, Sam was 7'1", then came Turpin who proved to be to slow, and nobody would have thought either Thorpe, Willis or any other center was close to Sam. Most people would have taken him and most people would have been wrong. 4 hall of famers, and nobody could have seen Stockon that way. Some nice players and a lot of duds (like most drafts).

 

[Calbysdad]

Walton went 21 for 22 in a national championship game. He had 4 dunks disallowed because of a no dunking rule.

Why on earth would he have dunked three more times???

 

[EasyEd]

I voted in a few but after all the women were eliminated, I decided it was a farce and haven't gone back to see any of the voting.

 

[BBallF]

One small reason Wilt had those astonishing numbers is that he was always in the game. The guy never came out, never fouled out, never needed a rest. In the 1962 season he did the impossible: He averaged more minutes per game (48.5) than there were than there were minutes played (48). Let that sink in.

Today, 48 years ago, in 1972, the Lakers finished with the best record at the time (69-13) in the history of the NBA. Wilt averaged 15 points and 19 rebounds for that team with Jerry West and Gail Goodrich each averaging 25 points a game. West also had almost 10 assists a game. Throw in Elgin Baylor, Happy Hairston, Jim McMillan etc. and you have a pretty good team. It was the Lakers' first title believe it or not and Wilt's second and last one with the first being the Philadelphia Warriors in 1967.

 

[BBallF]

Walton went 21 for 22 in a national championship game. He had 4 dunks disallowed because of a no dunking rule. Ended with 44 point which could have been 50 while only missing 1 shot. He has multiple national titles and I'm not positive if freshmen were able to play back then. I know Freshmen could not play when Jabbar, ok Alcinder was at UCLA. He won 3 titles, and if you don't think he would have won 4 well UCLA won the title when he could not be on the team as a freshman yet he and the other freshmen would beat the national champs in practice. If they playeda real game they would have won. Simply put at 7'2" with a sky hook he was the hardest player to defend ever including Jordan, or Chamberlain. He should best Stewart in the finals of this mock tournament.

The Walton game you described above took place 47 years ago today. I remember watching it in amazement.

 

[hoopingcrane]

Today, 48 years ago, in 1972, the Lakers finished with the best record at the time (69-13) in the history of the NBA. Wilt averaged 15 points and 19 rebounds for that team with Jerry West and Gail Goodrich each averaging 25 points a game. West also had almost 10 assists a game. Throw in Elgin Baylor, Happy Hairston, Jim McMillan etc. and you have a pretty good team. It was the Lakers' first title believe it or not and Wilt's second and last one with the first being the Philadelphia Warriors in 1967.

basically the same team lost the championship the next year to the N.Y. knicks with Frazier, reed and monroe

 

[Buzzyboy]

Sorry, if we look at college careers only, UConn has more like 10 of the top 64 of all-time.

Excluding Ray Allen is beyond idiotic

 

[Buzzyboy]

Can’t disagree. And all those players and Jason Williams is a top 64....nope

Not including Bill Walton or Jabbar is ridiculous .... we are talking about college, not NBA ..... I do agree Laettner is totally suspect ....