Espn article about conferences vs geography.

[bobbyinaz]

Can you 2 please take your argument somewhere else?

The BE is a good basketball conference but let's not kid anyone. If a P5 conference calls and offers a spot to UConn we're out of the BE before the call ends.

As long as UConn is committed to FBS football we will jump at any P5 invite that comes

 

[Zissou]

The BE is a basketball conference...not arguing that...if that is all you want to be is a basketball conference in a football world.

Kind of like the ACC who has won three of the last five basketball championships.

What I can't figure out is why it has been 20 years since the Big Ten has won a NC in basketball....Is this the year?

Or...when will Gonzaga win their first?...this may be the year.

Yes, the ACC is also a good basketball conference.

 

[CL82]

The Big East survived as a basketball conference...what it once was and all the basketball schools cared about.

I would say that it failed as an all-sports conference...but that, it never was.

I don’t know, it measured up favorably to the ACC in the pre-raid years. If it was so much worse, why would the ACC desire its teams?

(Remember to use the reply function so I will see your post.)

 

[CL82]

Can you 2 please take your argument somewhere else?

The BE is a good basketball conference but let's not kid anyone. If a P5 conference calls and offers a spot to UConn we're out of the BE before the call ends.

As long as UConn is committed to FBS football we will jump at any P5 invite that comes

Looking at 10 times the media revenue it’s pretty much a game changer. There’s no way to turn that down.

 

[Zissou]

Can you 2 please take your argument somewhere else?

The BE is a good basketball conference but let's not kid anyone. If a P5 conference calls and offers a spot to UConn we're out of the BE before the call ends.

As long as UConn is committed to FBS football we will jump at any P5 invite that comes

Other than Notre Dame I think that is true for any other non-P5 or non-Ivy program. Thanks Captain Obvious.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Other than Notre Dame I think that is true for any other non-P5 or non-Ivy program. Thanks Captain Obvious.

Then why are you & Billy arguing back & forth?

Nobody here cares

Don't bother responding. You're the 1st I've ever put on ignore. Go away idiot

 

[billybud]

lack ofI don’t know, it measured up favorably to the ACC in the pre-raid years. If it was so much worse, why would the ACC desire its teams?

(Remember to use the reply function so I will see your post.)

We have covered this in my previous post...

Why BC and Cuse?...Because Miami made that the condition that they would need for them to sign the agreement with the ACC..

Why VT?....because the Virginia governor blackmailed the ACC...putting off Cuse for a bit.

Why Louisville?...good athletics...not far off the geographics...followed the pairing with the SEC in Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida.

Didn't say say that the football teams were worse...just that the BE conference was...it was not philosophically coherent...it was tone deaf to the movement towards a football breakaway....The BE was adamant that they were a basketball conference...come hell or high water.

 

[CL82]

We have covered this in my previous post...

Why BC and Cuse?...Because Miami made that the condition that they would need for them to sign the agreement with the ACC..

Why VT?....because the Virginia governor blackmailed the ACC...putting off Cuse for a bit.

Why Louisville?...good athletics...not far off the geographics...followed the pairing with the SEC in Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida.

Didn't say say that the football teams were worse...just that the BE conference was...it was not philosophically coherent...it was tone deaf to the movement towards a football breakaway....The BE was adamant that they were a basketball conference...come hell or high water.

Do you have a quote from a commissioner indicating that the big east conference was a basketball conference come hell or Highwater? I don’t remember it.

 

[billybud]

Do you have a quote from a commissioner indicating that the big east conference was a basketball conference come hell or Highwater? I don’t remember it.

Don't be absurd.

 

[CL82]

Don't be absurd.

Oh, OK you were just making that up. Got it.

 

[Zissou]

Do you have a quote from a commissioner indicating that the big east conference was a basketball conference come hell or Highwater? I don’t remember it.

Quite the opposite. The news and PR was that the conference was stronger, as a football and basketball conference. after BC, Miami, and VT left.

A league of his own: Mike Tranghese steps down after 19 years as Big East commissioner - The Daily Orange

Mike Tranghese found himself in a bind. As he prepared for his wedding in 1996, Tranghese, the commissioner of the Big East conference, realized he did not make arrangements to be married in a Catholic church. Tranghese and his fiancée, Susan, were to be married in a civil service, but Tranghese...

dailyorange.com

Shaw told Tranghese previously that it might be in the conference’s best interest to continue, but they needed a plan to go forward. The plan would be the 16-team formation. While others wrote the Big East off, a resurrection was in store.

The Big East added Louisville, DePaul, Cincinnati, South Florida and Marquette to develop the biggest conference in the nation, a cross-country conglomeration of institutions with prowess in both basketball and football.

‘It’s night and day,’ Cantor said. ‘If you looked at (the Big East) now and didn’t know that it had gone through a transition, it would seem like a very well-functioning cohesive conference.’

Patrick Nero, the commissioner of the America East Conference, was senior associate athletic director at Miami during its transition to the ACC. He said Tranghese was very respectful to the institutions that were leaving and was never bitter about the situation the Big East was facing. He worked to make his conference even stronger – and he succeeded.

‘If you look at the Big East today versus the Big East before the defections, they’ve actually come out of it stronger,’ Nero said. ‘That’s just a tribute to Mike. He went and got some very good replacements, and they’ve done a great job.’

The conference is also stable with television contracts. The Big East currently has a contract with ESPN to air football and men’s and women’s basketball games on the station until 2013-14. The league also has deals with SportsNet New York and CBS Sports.

 

[Zissou]

Pitt and Cuse were important conference power brokers in 2011, as early Big East members and founding football participants from 1991. Prov, Georgetown, St Johns, and Nova were important basketball-only influencers. UConn was in the middle, as a founding conference member and a late move-up in football.

There just was not an honest relationship between the leadership of these programs. While Pitt and Cuse were active in the membership decisions, including keeping Nova out in football, and the TV contracting, including the decision to let ESPN expire and go to the open market, they were also back channeling to the ACC for membership.

Pitt was the lead dirty dealer, but it’s not all their fault. The other presidents should have been stronger leaders and partners. The commish was also ineffective, but the responsibility was with the member presidents.

It wasn’t fate that led Pitt and Cuse to bring down Big East football. It wasn’t a model that was doomed to fail. It was the character, competence, decisions, and actions of member presidents that led to the split.

 

[Zissou]

All-in-all, the current line-up in the Big East is very good, and a result of survival instincts and a lot of luck.

Most fortunate was the formation of FS1 and Fox being proactive with the Big East basketball-only members, facilitating the final move of the “C7” and the deal for basketball to keep the conference identity and the MSG BET.

The nACC has the big money TV contract for football, but it’s a much less interesting and cohesive conference. The original poached programs, Miami, VT, and BC all declined significantly after the move. WVU is worse off in the B12, except for the cash. Pitt is a shell of its former athletic program. Cuse has declined. Louisville imploded.

The whole landscape has changed. If you are a basketball-first fan the Big East is as good as it gets.

For UConn football, a rebirth was needed regardless of affiliation. The Indy path is at least as credible as a trying to be a “P6”.

And yes, of course, if P5 money is offered any Big East member would jump for it. Money is the biggest driver, always.

 

[ScottVib]

I’ll speak for Nova first... well known for men’s and women’s running. Multiple national titles in track and cross country. Nova also has one Division 1 football title. I think outside of hoops Nova has more championships than UConn.

I mean that's a lot like saying outside of Cross Country UConn has more championships than Nova... (and seriously who knew the Big East was such a powerhouse in Women's cross country with three schools owning at least one national title there)

Big East NCAA National Championships
UConn: 22 (Women's Basketball x11; Field Hockey x5; Men's Basketball x4; Men's Soccer x2)
Villanova: 21 (Women's Cross Country x9; Men's Cross Country x4; Men's Indoor Track x3; Men's Basketball x3; Men's Outdoor Track; FCS Football)
Georgetown: 3 (Men's Soccer; Men's Basketball; Women's Cross Country)
Providence: 3 (Women's Cross Country x2; Men's Ice Hockey)
St. John's: 2 (Men's Soccer; Fencing)
Marquette: 1 (Men's Basketball)
Butler: 0
Creighton: 0
DePaul: 0
Seton Hall: 0
Xavier: 0

 

[Zissou]

I mean that's a lot like saying outside of Cross Country UConn has more championships than Nova... (and seriously who knew the Big East was such a powerhouse in Women's cross country with three schools owning at least one national title there)

Big East NCAA National Championships
UConn: 22 (Women's Basketball x11; Field Hockey x5; Men's Basketball x4; Men's Soccer x2)
Villanova: 21 (Women's Cross Country x9; Men's Cross Country x4; Men's Indoor Track x3; Men's Basketball x3; Men's Outdoor Track; FCS Football)
Georgetown: 3 (Men's Soccer; Men's Basketball; Women's Cross Country)
Providence: 3 (Women's Cross Country x2; Men's Ice Hockey)
St. John's: 2 (Men's Soccer; Fencing)
Marquette: 1 (Men's Basketball)
Butler: 0
Creighton: 0
DePaul: 0
Seton Hall: 0
Xavier: 0

That’s fair. Everyone knows of UConn’s hoops titles in men’s and women’s. I wasn’t discounting them, just addressing the question as to members success in other-than-basketball.

I don’t think your list is all inclusive, as it leaves out lacrosse (2nd tier sport) and I think there may be some titles in more obscure sports (like shooting, I think).

 

[Zissou]

I mean that's a lot like saying outside of Cross Country UConn has more championships than Nova... (and seriously who knew the Big East was such a powerhouse in Women's cross country with three schools owning at least one national title there)

Big East NCAA National Championships
UConn: 22 (Women's Basketball x11; Field Hockey x5; Men's Basketball x4; Men's Soccer x2)
Villanova: 21 (Women's Cross Country x9; Men's Cross Country x4; Men's Indoor Track x3; Men's Basketball x3; Men's Outdoor Track; FCS Football)
Georgetown: 3 (Men's Soccer; Men's Basketball; Women's Cross Country)
Providence: 3 (Women's Cross Country x2; Men's Ice Hockey)
St. John's: 2 (Men's Soccer; Fencing)
Marquette: 1 (Men's Basketball)
Butler: 0
Creighton: 0
DePaul: 0
Seton Hall: 0
Xavier: 0

So a quick look into this... this list is for team titles. There is an additional list for individual titles. For example, Nova also has 34 individual titles in men’s outdoor track alone.

Xavier’s rifle title is an individual champion, not a team champion.

 

[billybud]

Oh, OK you were just making that up. Got it.

You really think that the Big East wasn't all about basketball?

The Catholic Seven were basketball centric programs that saw basketball give them a national stage...

Georgetown's AD layed it out............."
"Stability in terms of our model of intercollegiate athletics, our broad-based model of intercollegiate athletics that's basketball-centric, that's something that's important to us," Georgetown athletic director Lee Reed told reporters after the Hoyas' game on Saturday afternoon, following the announcement of the break. "That has defined us for well over a generation. We're committed to doing that. We're committed to pursuing that."

 

[billybud]

Let's revisit the OBE....

The BIG EAST’s Catholic roots date back to 1979. The conference was started by seven universities, five of them Catholic. Holy Cross in Massachusetts was also invited to join the conference that year but declined. The following year Villanova joined, adding an additional Catholic university to the conference.

While basketball prominence may not seem relevant to the conference or any of the universities’ Catholic identity to some, Fr. Shanley explains that it is.

“Basketball’s prominence has been a way for Providence College to get its mission and its name out there,” he said shortly after the new BIG EAST was created.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................


UConn women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma said. "We may have been the most diverse conference in the history of conferences. It was only a matter of time and I am glad the time is here now though...We all knew it was going to happen. Once the storm clouds came in that football was running the NCAA we knew. How are eight football schools going to survive with eight basketball schools, that is not a marriage made in heaven."

 

[Zissou]

The Big East was basketball-first before the football era and is after the football era. There is no revelation here.

 

[CL82]

Let's revisit the OBE....

The BIG EAST’s Catholic roots date back to 1979. The conference was started by seven universities, five of them Catholic. Holy Cross in Massachusetts was also invited to join the conference that year but declined. The following year Villanova joined, adding an additional Catholic university to the conference.

While basketball prominence may not seem relevant to the conference or any of the universities’ Catholic identity to some, Fr. Shanley explains that it is.

“Basketball’s prominence has been a way for Providence College to get its mission and its name out there,” he said shortly after the new BIG EAST was created.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................


UConn women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma said. "We may have been the most diverse conference in the history of conferences. It was only a matter of time and I am glad the time is here now though...We all knew it was going to happen. Once the storm clouds came in that football was running the NCAA we knew. How are eight football schools going to survive with eight basketball schools, that is not a marriage made in heaven."

C'mon billybud the new Big East is a basketball conference. Using comments about it to suggest that the all sport OBE wasn't committed to football is, well, silly. Heck the OBE conference is still playing football under the name the American.

 

[billybud]

C'mon billybud the new Big East is a basketball conference. Using comments about it to suggest that the all sport OBE wasn't committed to football is, well, silly. Heck the OBE conference is still playing football under the name the American.

Some of the old BE were football schools, true...and they now play else where...but even UConn, I would not count as a football first school.....the core of the old BE was basketball...Georgetown and their brethren.

"The basketball schools are not thrilled with Tulane and what they will do to the league's RPI," said a league source from a football-playing member. "They were not all that excited with that addition."

The basketball schools pitched a royal fit about the Temple invite...saying would lower basketball RPI.....

Villanova spent part of yesterday’s (Tuesday's) conference call undermining Temple as an expansion candidate, saying it would accept the Owls as a football member only. The football schools want Temple as an all-sports addition.

and what is telling about the dysfunctional BE was that when the phone call to discuss the C7 breakaway was set up between the catholic 7 and Aresco...the football schools were not notified.

The break-up of the basketball/football partnership in the Big East has been an inner conference issue for several years, dating to the mid-1990s when the basketball side of the league was seriously considering breaking away because they felt that the football schools were dominating all legislation.

When the Big East was to add Memphis, SMU, and Houston...the Catholic seven wanted out before those programs came in and changed the vote count (and with more football schools).

 

[billybud]

Aurelia was right on...

"How are eight football schools going to survive with eight basketball schools, that is not a marriage made in heaven."

The league was never going to survive as it was...had been struggling with an identity crisis for years....a core catholic basketball league with national brands loosely welded to a group of football playing schools. The basketball side was all about basketball of course...

You can overcome geography like being a West Virginia school playing in a conference west of the Mississippi...but you can't overcome such basic sports philosophical differences.

 

[Zissou]

There are bigger problems, than football coexisting with basketball, in the world that are solved every day. It just takes the capability at the top to manage those solutions.

 

[Zissou]

@billybud I sense that there is some insecurity over private schools, or maybe even some anti-catholic bias.

As a FSU fan you asked about, and I think implied, that these Big East schools might not have athletic excellence beyond basketball.

Here is a list of NCAA Team Championships by school. Interestingly, 2 of the top 3 are private schools. There are 3 Big East schools on this top list, all non-P5 of course.

FSU has all the advantages of being a large school, a state subsidized school, P5 money, etc., but isn't on the list. It has less than half the total of either UConn or Nova.

I think it's interesting that you assume one thing, ask the question, and then go silent when the facts are presented.

The Big East is a great basketball-first conference. It has members that are accomplished in other sports. It has highly ranked academic institutions. I'm not sure why an FSU fan has such insecurities over the Big East. Your conference is ok, too.

Championships aren't everything, you do have better Football revenue.

 

[billybud]

Zissou...

Don't be that guy....the guy who "senses" things that are not there...by the way, I went to 12 years of catholic schooling...I have nothing against private schools...even Duke. I have no insecurities over the Big East...that does appear to be projection.

Just saying that the Big East was a basketball first conference when formulated and about half of the conference never moved from that..it is not a good or bad thing..Zissy...it is just a fact.

And nationally, people just don't care that much about national titles beyond football and basketball...

Who knows or cares that UNC's women hold an unbelievable 21 national championships in soccer?

Or that UNC, Virginia, and Duke have won a combined 8 men's lacrosse titles since 2000?

If it was football or basketball...we might have an inkling...but it isn't.