Espn article about conferences vs geography. | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Espn article about conferences vs geography.

billybud said:
I guess the gambit did not fail then...The ACC was positioning for the big break off to P5...in that sense, it was a good move.

But...the world turns...I would dump Cuse and BC if there ever was a possibility.
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No, it did not fail. It did take a few waves though. Once ESPN decided to make the ACC it’s house band it was inevitable.
 
billybud said:
I've always maintained that the ACC going northeast was a bad gambit...especially for geographic cohesion...

I'd trade BC and Cuse, in a NY minute, for UCF and WVU.
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It was, but not for the reason being surmised.

At the time they expanded to 12, the ACC needed to kill Big East basketball, but they chose instead to just sort of maim Big East football. Big East football would have died on its own had it lacked hoops credibility.

The biggest mistake at the time was choosing BC over Syracuse, and the second was not giving UConn any thought at all.

But the league couldn’t think outside of football, and state house politics in Virginia further forced their hand.

They learned their lesson for the second time around.

CL82 said:
No, it did not fail. It did take a few waves though. Once ESPN decided to make the ACC it’s house band it was inevitable.
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Inevitable yes. But they could have killed the Big East as a competitor much more quickly and much more thoroughly with a basketball centric plan, and it would’ve done exactly the same damage to BE football.
 
kingdobbs said:
It was, but not for the reason being surmised.

At the time they expanded to 12, the ACC needed to kill Big East basketball, but they chose instead to just sort of maim Big East football. Big East football would have died on its own had it lacked hoops credibility.

The biggest mistake at the time was choosing BC over Syracuse, and the second was not giving UConn any thought at all.

But the league couldn’t think outside of football, and state house politics in Virginia further forced their hand.

They learned their lesson for the second time around.



Inevitable yes. But they could have killed the Big East as a competitor much more quickly and much more thoroughly with a basketball centric plan, and it would’ve done exactly the same damage to BE football.
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They were trying to make it look like an accident.
 
kingdobbs said:
It was, but not for the reason being surmised.

At the time they expanded to 12, the ACC needed to kill Big East basketball, but they chose instead to just sort of maim Big East football. Big East football would have died on its own had it lacked hoops credibility.

The biggest mistake at the time was choosing BC over Syracuse, and the second was not giving UConn any thought at all.

But the league couldn’t think outside of football, and state house politics in Virginia further forced their hand.

They learned their lesson for the second time around.



Inevitable yes. But they could have killed the Big East as a competitor much more quickly and much more thoroughly with a basketball centric plan, and it would’ve done exactly the same damage to BE football.
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ESPN doesn't pay for basketball......The ACC was thinking of the break for P5...adding a baeesketball centric program did little for a contract weighted 80% to football.

The ACC is not concerned about BE basketball....

The P5 break was all about football.
 
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Like Ted Bundy writing an article on the rise of violent crimes against young women. Followed by a documentary on the demise of the Beatles produced by Yoko Ono
 
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Miami was odd man out in the Old big East which was a fairly geographically tight league. West Virginia and to a degree VaTech had a history of playing the northeastern schools. WVU in particular. So Miami going to the ACC made some sense. So did Va Tech though less so. And Adding Cincinatti was always sensible. Loiuisville was added for its programs, not its location but was another borderline logical decision.

The ACC Move was about the power 5 not killing Big East basketball. Basketball was never more than a side issue. That it reduced the Big East’s power (yeah Villanova is the exception) was a nice benefit but not the goal.

I’m guessing but I expect that the next round of conference media deals will be modeled much more on the AAC deal with many games behind a paywall. The money will be higher, of Course, but fewer games will be available without paying, and the production costs will be passed over to schools and leagues through BTN, and others similar entities.

If I were given free reign to create a new North East all sports conference I’d go for a 9 team league. That has always been the most logical. Conference championship games have underperformed almost every time. My league would be:
1. Buffalo
2. Boston College
3. UConn
4.UMass
5.Pitt
6.Penn State
7.Syracuse
8.Temple
9.Rutgers
If 12
10.WVU
11. Maryland
12. Army or Navy or Cincinatti

Im not sure Army or Navy would want to be in a conference again though. I have heard that Navy isn’t all that enthralled with it, and Army had a disastrous experience. As the AAC continues to improve, Navy is concerned they will struggle to keep up and they really don’t want to be stuck. And being Navy, they can actually put together an interesting and winnable schedule fairly easily and go to locations where there are bases and alums.
 
Virginia Tech is in the ACC because their state's Governor forced it by controlling the necessary vote to expand...(with UNC and Duke as "no's).

Syracuse and BC are in the ACC because Miami demanded that as the price to move over.

Louisville was seen as a comfortable fit with good athletics and the Big 12 might soon invite them.

I think that a Northeast Conference would be great...Pitt and Penn State won't move....That would leave Temple...and ?
 
I agree Penn Star won’t move. Pitt is Syracuse in a slightly nicer city. And they would be odd man out in the ACC.
 
Pitt is tied up for 15 years...and I don't think that they would be interested in a move...they are no more an odd man out in the ACC than they would be against UMass, UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, Buffalo, etc
 
BC is going to be really good under Hafley. The ACC needed and wanted larger TV markets and well you can’t have an Atlantic Coast Conference without Boston.

The next realignment will happen with the B12 and the PAC 12. They might just do a joint media deal or Texas, TT, OU and Ok St could join the PAC 12.

If the latter happens, then Kansas would probably got to the B1G and Baylor and TCU or KState could go to the SEC.

I’m not sure the B1G would add a 16th team. The ACC proved this year that you don’t need divisions. If ND did join the ACC and the ACC wanted a 16th team then WVU would probably be the choice. I don’t think Miami and FSU would want UCF or USF. Cincinnati would also be a very possible 16th ACC member. I do believe the SEC would like another 1-2 Texas schools.
 
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FSU is in a funny position being way up in the north of the state, ....there are nine of their larger alumni chapters stationed within a couple of hours drive from UCF...

There are more FSU fans in the stadium than USF fans when that game is played in Tampa....their were Noles who bought USF season tickets just to get in that game....more support for UCF than one might think.
 
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billybud said:
FSU is in a funny position being way up in the north of the state, ....there are nine of their larger alumni chapters stationed within a couple of hours drive from UCF...

There are more FSU fans in the stadium than USF fans when that game is played in Tampa....their were Noles who bought USF season tickets just to get in that game....more support for UCF than one might think.
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The UCF support is simply a result of winning.
 
NE Football said:
The ACC needed and wanted larger TV markets and well you can’t have an Atlantic Coast Conference without Boston.
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difficult people no GIF by HULU
 
Hoophound said:
The UCF support is simply a result of winning.
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well yeah..duh...otherwise it might be FAU, FIU, USF...... if it was on an upswing.

It all is a compromise...like my mechanic, when he couldn't fix my brakes making my horn louder.
 
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Florida, unlike Alabama or South Carolina, is the 3rd most populous state....I think there is room for either the SEC or ACC to add another Florida program if the sports quality is there.

Alabama and Georgia are all about the SEC...maybe, just maybe, having three Florida teams duking it out in the ACC would put Florida in the ACC camp.
 
freescooter said:
Miami was odd man out in the Old big East which was a fairly geographically tight league.
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In the 1970s and 80s Miami, ND, Penn State, Syracuse, and BC were independents and played each other regularly. Miami would also play Big 10 teams. It regularly scheduled north. In that sense they weren’t such an odd fit to Big East football.
 
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It was inevitable.

The philosophical split between the basketball schools of the BE and those for whom football was an important sport led to the BE universe having an inherent wobble.

The Big East was born and raised as a basketball conference, and the reason it failed was that it never understood, or really wanted to understand, that football drives the bus in modern college athletics. And the big voices in the league were basketball guys.

When the BE voted down Penn State, the rift was very clear...the Georgetown AD, Frank Rienzo, stated that football wasn’t helping his cause any so he didn’t care about it and didn’t see how Penn State helped the Hoyas.

It took the losing of Syracuse and Pitt to finally force the basketball-football split that had been brewing for years...there had been talk of splitting the football-basketball programs before but Tranghese worked hard to fight it off.
 
billybud said:
It was inevitable.

The philosophical split between the basketball schools of the BE and those for whom football was an important sport led to the BE universe having an inherent wobble.

The Big East was born and raised as a basketball conference, and the reason it failed was that it never understood, or really wanted to understand, that football drives the bus in modern college athletics. And the big voices in the league were basketball guys.

When the BE voted down Penn State, the rift was very clear...the Georgetown AD, Frank Rienzo, stated that football wasn’t helping his cause any so he didn’t care about it and didn’t see how Penn State helped the Hoyas.

It took the losing of Syracuse and Pitt to finally force the basketball-football split that had been brewing for years...there had been talk of splitting the football-basketball programs before but Tranghese worked hard to fight it off.
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While there is some truth here there is also much that is off the mark.

First, the Big East didn’t fail. It took all of the shots, went down to the canvas, and got back up like Rocky for the improbable win. Nova’s last two championships and UConn coming home proved that the Big East is a survivor and is thriving.

The Big East in the early days considered adding Penn State or Pitt. There is still some wringing of hands, but at the time there is a good case to be made for the Pitt decision. Penn State doesn’t have much basketball history. Pitt had basketball and also (at the time) solid football history. Would Penn State have been the magic glue for the Big East? I doubt it.

Finally, I disagree that the split was inevitable. The split was a result of choices and actions, not predetermined fate. There was certainly an understanding of the football prominence in TV revenue. Understanding in itself doesn’t dissolve conflicts. The split was due to poor relationships, poor ethics, and poor management by the member presidents and ADs. It wasn’t fate, it was the presidents’ actions.

History is full of conflict. The Big East surviving all the hits (and I didn’t even mention the outside manipulation of ESPN) and thriving is a result of survival instincts, a foundation of great basketball programs post split, and a lot of luck.
 
The Big East survived as a basketball conference...what it once was and all the basketball schools cared about.

I would say that it failed as an all-sports conference...but that, it never was.
 
“The Big East was born and raised as a basketball conference, and the reason it failed...”

It was, and is, a basketball-first conference. It is a top 3 basketball conference.

It failed all the way to two of the last four national titles, and expanding by bringing in one of the most storied basketball programs over the last 40 years.
 
The BE is a basketball conference...not arguing that...if that is all you want to be is a basketball conference in a football world.

Kind of like the ACC who has won three of the last five basketball championships.

What I can't figure out is why it has been 20 years since the Big Ten has won a NC in basketball....Is this the year?

Or...when will Gonzaga win their first?...this may be the year.
 
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Not trying to be smarmy...just curious...besides basketball...what other sports do the current Big East members, that are not named UConn , have a NC in?
 
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I’ll speak for Nova first... well known for men’s and women’s running. Multiple national titles in track and cross country. Nova also has one Division 1 football title. I think outside of hoops Nova has more championships than UConn.

Nova has more than twice as many NCAA national championships than FSU. Not bad for a little private school.

In hoops 4 of the 11 current members have national titles. UConn, Nova, Georgetown, and Marquette. All members have been to the Final Four except newcomers Xavier and Creighton.

Lacrosse is respected. Denver is an affiliate member and has a Big East national championship (and 32 other titles in skiing and hockey).

UConn, Nova, Georgetown, St Johns, Prov, and Denver all have titles in other than hoops.

So yes, we are a basketball-first conference no question. Our members, however, have achievement outside of hoops.
 
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