Enough about bad recruiting

[Geesworld]

It's hard to argue that Geno doesn't recruit well when you in the final four for a full decade plus four years.

I think the only class he missed on would be Meg Walkers class. But in his defense there wasn't any great post in that recruiting class.

 

[hoophuskee]

Where did I say "the game has passed Geno by? Don't put words in my mouth. I feel sorry for so many in the fan base that expectations for the program are so low. While many of focus on those behind UConn in the pecking order, I feel the focus should be what to do to catch the team/teams ahead of UConn. Status quo has lead to the longest title drought since the team won their first national championship.

You said his strategy is outdated, did you not? How is his strategy if outdated - are you not saying the game has passed him by? If you say the game has not passed him by- okay I believe you. But then if you say his strategy is outdated- until he shows he is following what you want- which so far he isn't- then yes you are saying the game has passed him by.

I feel amazement at some of the fan base that has an enormous loss of perspective.

In regards to catching, we "caught" all but one team. -- While Dorka was out. Liv was hurt. Azzi was sick. Paige coming back from injury etc. Not being cohesive all year with all the injuries. Accept we just lost to a better team. Thats it.

And our best players that were frosh and soph are now going to be juniors and sophs. We are going to be better. More cohesion to boot.

 

[Brown Eyed]

The fact that Geno hasn't brought in a post that can actually play (offensively or defensively) in the post is certainly fair game for scrutiny; intense, vigorous scrutiny.

I think we need to define what purpose the team is recruiting for. If winning the Big East and getting deep into the tournament is where the bar is set, UConn is doing a fantastic job recruiting. If the goal is to get to number 12, then Geno needs to do a better job.

So please tell me and all of us on the boneyard who you would’ve gotten (the bigs) to play at UConn and how come Geno didn’t get them. Please tell.
B&C

 

[Brown Eyed]

You said his strategy is outdated, did you not? How is his strategy if outdated - are you not saying the game has passed him by? If you say the game has not passed him by- okay I believe you. But then if you say his strategy is outdated- until he shows he is following what you want- which so far he isn't- then yes you are saying the game has passed him by.

I feel amazement at some of the fan base that has an enormous loss of perspective.

In regards to catching, we "caught" all but one team. -- While Dorka was out. Liv was hurt. Azzi was sick. Paige coming back from injury etc. Not being cohesive all year with all the injuries. Accept we just lost to a better team. Thats it.

And our best players that were frosh and soph are now going to be juniors and sophs. We are going to be better. More cohesion to boot.

Amen

 

[JoePgh]

My concern would also be the NUMBER of players actually signed. A few years UConn has brought on only two players. Did you see how many bench players SC had? They must have played 14 or 15. Considering that a few from every class will transfer/leave, I think we've got to bring on 4-5 players every year. Geno almost never uses up all his scholarships. He seems to want to bring on only the very very best and if that's only two players, so be it. But many times that is going to bite us in the ass. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

I wish he would recruit potential instead of solely stars. I keep thinking about Kara Wolters. Nobody recruited her and Geno transformed her into NPOY. There were a few outstanding stars in the BE tournament who weren't even top 100.

I think that every single one of your points is wrong.

1. "Did you see how many bench players SC had? They must have played 14 or 15." Check the box score. SC had 5 players who played only the last 1 minute of the game and did nothing (except for one player who committed one turnover and picked up one foul). They had five bench players who played a total of 42 minutes and scored a total of 8 points. UConn, on the other hand, had 4 bench players who played 61 minutes and scored 18 points -- and this is with Dorka and Aubrey not being available. Whose bench was more productive?
2. "I wish he would recruit potential instead of solely stars." Really? What about Piath Gabriel, Mir McLean, Saylor Poffenbarger, AEH, Molly Bent, and Kyla Irwin in recent years? Nika Muhl might also fit in that list, except that she has actually fulfilled her potential in short order, unlike the others.
3. And then there is AgStatesman's post: "I feel there are posts out there that maybe cannot score at all but can defend and rebound and block some shots. He has never given a player like that a second look." That actually sounds to me like a perfect description of Olivia Nelson Ododa. She was fine against Cameron Brink and Fran Belibi but came up short against Boston. (If the test is whether Geno or anyone can find a recruit that can neutralize or outplay Boston, that list is going to be very short if not zero in length.) Behind Liv, there is Piath, who illustrates the limitations of your approach -- if you recruit at that level, you are going to get many more Piaths than Stef Dolsons (and Stef was ranked much higher coming out of HS than Piath), and the great majority of them are never going to be more than end-of-bench players for UConn.

I think the whole complaint about recent UConn recruiting amounts to the fact that Geno didn't reel in Aliyah Boston. If he had, there would have been 1 or 2 more NC's, and this thread wouldn't exist.

This, combined with SC's other recent recruiting successes, demonstrate that Dawn Staley really is a new force in the world of WCBB -- she can recruit a group of players that are very talented and can offer them all the things that UConn can: a chance at an NC every year, a proven road to success in the WNBA and overseas, a rabid local fan base, and plenty of exposure to national media. So for many players, it will come down to a cultural and personal issue: would they rather spend 4 years playing for Geno or for Dawn? That will be different for each recruit, and may come down to a coin flip in many cases.

I'm not sure that anyone has presented that kind of a personal matchup to Geno as a coach since Pat Summitt was in her prime: not Muffet McGraw or Jeff Walz or Kim Mulkey or Tara Vanderveer. All of them had niche appeal to a certain brand of recruit, but not the same broad-based appeal that Dawn and Geno now have.

 

[hoophuskee]

Our recruiting as been just fine. A roster that includes the likes of Paige, Azzi, AE, Dorka, Nika and CD is enough to win most games. The only significant weakness is not having a proven player that can dominate the paint like Boston can. There are few players that can match her combination of size, athleticism and agressiveness. Somehow some combination of Dorka, Piath, Amari, Ice and Patterson will have to at least keep her honest. Of that group only Dorka is a known entity. She is big enough, has good skills and a high rpm motor. She cannot handle a Boston without help. Piath is the only true center of the bunch and has as yet not shown she can be a steady rotation player much less challenge the best bigs out there. It would be great if Amari can be a good scoring distributer but she isn't a banger. Brady and Patterson are both highly regarded recruits, neither particularly tall but excellent athletes. How useful they will be next year is anyone's guess. A wild card is Griffin. Another non-banger who if she comes back 100% should be able to get her share of rebounds just by out jumping people. This group should be able to control the paint against most any team. Against the Boston's of this world all they have to do is limit the damage and use their own skill sets to create damage of their own.

What about AE? AE defense while Dorka can help and still get rebounds?

 

[and one]

What about AE? AE defense while Dorka can help and still get rebounds?

Yes, right, AE is a big part of the list of paint players. Just forget to add her. My bad. Going into this year I thought she had the potential to be an AA type and a strong inside presence. Of course we saw her slow start, and although she woke up and became pretty darn good, like she was last year, she didn't significantly raise her game from last year. I see her as a B+ big and have hopes she gets to the A level. She is the closest we have as a player who can get position and be strong enough to hold it.

 

[LoboDays]

The game evolves. Coaches need to evolve with it. If UCONN wants to get back to winning NCs, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded. With the occasional success from Dorka, we didn’t have this against the top teams.

There will be more Bostons and Brinks as players become bigger and better. We need to get our share of them. I don’t want to see a 6’5” post player lead the team in assists. That is a negative stat IMO. There were times last night when both our post players were out by the 3 point line; setting screens and handing off to the guards. Against the best, that’s a losing strategy.

Some say that guards win championships for teams. They can also lose them. But if you control the paint, you can win when the guards struggle. If our guards struggle, we have no chance. It’s almost like we have 5 guards out there at various heights.

 

[nomdoux]

Geno said it himself in one of the FF off-day pressers: he used to be able to make his recruits into the player he wanted them to be but has now had to adjust to the modern reality that today’s kids are different & some compromise must occur— willingly or otherwise.

Something Dawn said in her off-day presser rings true & I imagine accounts for much of her success/appeal: she engages people where they stand & tries to meet them halfway.

Just like the days of Bobby Knight in the men’s game are long past, I think a similar change is needed to sustain the highest levels of success in the women’s game. Perhaps Geno can/will continue to reach FF’s without any tweaks in approach, but winning more championships may be another story.

 

[visitingcock]

I've read so much about how Geno has to recruit better..4 out of the last 5 years Geno has recruited the #1 HS player in the nation..I mean that's ridiculous..there are other teams in the WCBB..yes Walker never lived up to expectations and CW too although she was pretty good for 4 years..Paige is generational and the jury is still out on Azzi..where it hurt was not getting Boston..who like Paige is generational..well sorry you can't get every # 1 recruit or that would "be bad for basketball"..If Boston had come to Uconn I think it's safe to say they would have won the NATY the last 2 years..but it didn't happen..next year Stanford gets the #1 in 6'7 Betts..Uconn fans should consider themselves lucky b/c DT said the other night her first choice was Stanford and how about KLS coming to Uconn instead of following her 2 sisters to Stanford..no Geno's recruiting has been terrific..people say he should recruit taller and longer players. there isn't a lot of them out there..this year he has Deberry we will have to see how that pans out..He missed out an A'ja cuz she wanted to play close to home..Collier had commited to Uconn then changed her mind when her mother got sick so went to Texas..things happen..I'm sure every coach in the nation would have liked to get the #1 player 4 out of the last 5 years

Boston was not a number one recruit. She was number 3. Numbers one through 5 are just judgment calls by so-called experts who hit and Miss.

 

[JRRRJ]

The game evolves. Coaches need to evolve with it. If UCONN wants to get back to winning NCs, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded. With the occasional success from Dorka, we didn’t have this against the top teams.

There will be more Bostons and Brinks as players become bigger and better. We need to get our share of them. I don’t want to see a 6’5” post player lead the team in assists. That is a negative stat IMO. There were times last night when both our post players were out by the 3 point line; setting screens and handing off to the guards. Against the best, that’s a losing strategy.

Some say that guards win championships for teams. They can also lose them. But if you control the paint, you can win when the guards struggle. If our guards struggle, we have no chance. It’s almost like we have 5 guards out there at various heights.

UConn out-rebounded Stanford by 9: 46-37. Stanford's leading scorer (Brink) was held to 15 points.

Boston only scored 11 points, six below her season average and much more below her tournament average. Beside Boston, no SC player had more than 5 rebounds.

We played pretty well against some very good frontcourts.

 

[CocoHusky]

I've read so much about how Geno has to recruit better..4 out of the last 5 years Geno has recruited the #1 HS player in the nation..I mean that's ridiculous..there are other teams in the WCBB..yes Walker never lived up to expectations and CW too although she was pretty good for 4 years..Paige is generational and the jury is still out on Azzi..where it hurt was not getting Boston..who like Paige is generational..well sorry you can't get every # 1 recruit or that would "be bad for basketball"..If Boston had come to Uconn I think it's safe to say they would have won the NATY the last 2 years..but it didn't happen..next year Stanford gets the #1 in 6'7 Betts..Uconn fans should consider themselves lucky b/c DT said the other night her first choice was Stanford and how about KLS coming to Uconn instead of following her 2 sisters to Stanford..no Geno's recruiting has been terrific..people say he should recruit taller and longer players. there isn't a lot of them out there..this year he has Deberry we will have to see how that pans out..He missed out an A'ja cuz she wanted to play close to home..Collier had commited to Uconn then changed her mind when her mother got sick so went to Texas..things happen..I'm sure every coach in the nation would have liked to get the #1 player 4 out of the last 5 years

I don't know why you would think this ridiculous when Geno himself has questioned recruiting results.
“We’re used to getting really good players,” Auriemma said Wednesday. “The trick is you’ve got to get more than one good player. You have to get a couple of them a year. For a while there that’s what we were doing. We were doing that every year. But how long can you keep doing that?”
UConn women's recruiting whiffs raise question of whether other programs have caught up

You also can't lecture UCONN fans about recruiting by talking out of both sides of your mouth: If Boston is a generational talent and she ends up South Carolina is that not a recruiting miss for UCONN? Likewise if a players like Walker, ONO and CW fails to live up to expectations aren't those also recruiting "misses"?

" Uconn fans should consider themselves lucky b/c DT said the other night her first choice was Stanford? Seriously?

Before DT was NCAA eligible Stanford had won 2 National Championships same amount as UCONN. Stanford also went 11 seasons 1997-2008 without appearing in a final 4 and that includes the time that DT was was playing college ball. As great a Taurasi was it would be hard to imagine her dragging Stanford to championships during this time span.

Although Geno has secured the #1 Player in 4 of the last 5 seasons the one #1 player that he did not get (Haley Jones) has already won a championship. But I'm sure you aren't counting her as a Geno miss either.

 

[CocoHusky]

UConn out-rebounded Stanford by 9: 46-37. Stanford's leading scorer (Brink) was held to 15 points.
Boston only scored 11 points, six below her season average and much more below her tournament average. Beside Boston, no SC player had more than 5 rebounds.
We played pretty well against some very good frontcourts.

Not really as it applies to the SC game. Just look at the rebounding numbers. SC +25 in rebounds. The rebound margin reach +20 in the first half at one point. South Carolina collected almost as many offensive rebounds as UCONN got total rebounds 21 vs 25. UCONN played most of the entire first half giving up two and three shots on ever possession.

 

[cohenzone]

"Recruiting" isn't just about who gets the #1 player each year. It's ,about getting the best players to fill positional needs.

In this case, all the #1 players that UConn recruited in the past 5 years have been guards and wings. Setting aside the fact that Walker and Williams seemed not to live up to such billing, I'm sure we can all agree that when folks here refer to "recruiting" as an area of need, it's specifically in reference to the front court.

He didn’t get Boston but not for lack of a strong recruiting effort. DeBerry is highly rated. Dorka was all Big whatever number they are. Gabriel was not a prime target for anyone, but she is big and strong and with both those last two, time will tell. There aren’t that many Bostons to go around. Edwards is fine against most front lines. I think we beat Stanford this year with their length, am I right? Boston actually didn’t destroy us, but obviously her presence allows others to take advantage of the attention she draws.

 

[Pharos]

Enough about bad recruiting...​

I guess this raises some core questions for me. What is Boneyard for? What is the "role" of Boneyard participants? What influence should? could? we expect? hope? think? we have? Who are we Boneyarders?
My answers when joining were 1) to hear other fans who might have useful... interesting... better-informed... wise things to say. I'm still here because those happen.
2) to have a chance to throw in my 2 cents (inflated to 4 cents) about observations I make, and to hear back whether my ideas are boneyarded or boneheaded.
Recruiting, though, as a topic where we might have any useful influence seems like a huge longshot. What other WBB program has fans that wouldn't want (aside from geography and other intangible considerations) to be us with our "problems"?

 

[cohenzone]

I don't know why you would think this ridiculous when Geno himself has questioned recruiting results.
“We’re used to getting really good players,” Auriemma said Wednesday. “The trick is you’ve got to get more than one good player. You have to get a couple of them a year. For a while there that’s what we were doing. We were doing that every year. But how long can you keep doing that?”
UConn women's recruiting whiffs raise question of whether other programs have caught up

You also can't lecture UCONN fans about recruiting by talking out of both sides of your mouth: If Boston is a generational talent and she ends up South Carolina is that not a recruiting miss for UCONN? Likewise if a players like Walker, ONO and CW fails to live up to expectations aren't those also recruiting "misses"?

" Uconn fans should consider themselves lucky b/c DT said the other night her first choice was Stanford? Seriously?

Before DT was NCAA eligible Stanford had won 2 National Championships same amount as UCONN. Stanford also went 11 seasons 1997-2008 without appearing in a final 4 and that includes the time that DT was was playing college ball. As great a Taurasi was it would be hard to imagine her dragging Stanford to championships during this time span.

Although Geno has secured the #1 Player in 4 of the last 5 seasons the one #1 player that he did not get (Haley Jones) has already won a championship. But I'm sure you aren't counting her as a Geno miss either.

The whole idea of misses is sort of out there. So,who missed on Paige or Azzi or Christyn?Not Geno. Calling not getting a kid a miss is like they didn’t put in the effort. Just so happens Boston is that kind of difference maker if the only thing that matters is winning an NC. Getting to the FF 14 years running implies he doesn’t particularly miss.

 

[GoUconn7961]

The crop of kids we have after the seniors leave are fine. They'll be just fine. He recruits good kids and some don't rise to the occasion. There's no way to know that until practice & the season starts. This current group (including Amari & Piath) need to hit the weight room so they will not get pushed around as much in the paint. It wouldn't hurt Paige and Azzi either.

 

[Longtime fan]

Agree. And it's not just about recruiting better, it's about recruiting players that will fit into the program/system, and that can both welcome and handle the pressure that's put on them, the expectations required to play, etc. There are fewer of these types of players than we may realize. The program will not recruit or add transfers just to get bodies on the roster, there are reasons, and sometimes it doesn't work out. Imagine if Brittany Hunter had been healthier, or her initial surgery had gone better? So many factors ...

I think there are very few "BIG" players that are outstanding (Wilson, Boston, etc ). Let's face it; how many young women grow to 6'5 or more and are supremely athletic and interested? We had a fine player in Liv and have been lucky to acquire Dorka ( not so lucky for her to get injured ). DeBerry is a real talent ( apparently ) but a kid who did not want to work very hard, at least at first. I am surmising this because she contributed almost nothing compared to her classmates ( Ducharme and AZZI ), and she was a very highly regarded prospect. Geno has said that she was the "sort of kid who wanted to sit through her freshman year, learn what to do, and become a player next season." I think she has changed, because she never would have entered the NCAA final game if she hadn't been working. And she has committed to remain in Storrs all summer to " work on her game." But she will never be a Boston. Hopefully, she'll defend, rebound and make shots ( also distribute the ball). I think Geno's awareness of the need for a true BIG is reflected in Gabriel. She was not highly rated by anyone ( for understandable reasons) , but Geno saw potential there. She is big and strong enough to battle anyone. The question is, can she play the game? Can she remain in the game without fouling on every play? If Geno saw potential we have reason to believe it is there. But she has been here two years and can barely hit uncontested lay-ups. The time is drawing nigh to learn if Geno was right. What can she do this summer to prove him right?

 

[SARG 2011]

Long post warning: Back in the day I remember not watching UConn games as much after DT left. One year I tuned in to watch a game against UNC a loss...I remember vividly the difference in guard play and the athleticism of UNC overall. Didn't start really watching again until Maya arrived and discovered the Boneyard with Bria's class. I say all of this because Geno knows what he needs for this team to be successful, as noted he recruited Boston...she chose SC. I trust Geno to go out and get some additional help for this team via the portal. Also, as I get older I realize how lucky and grateful I am as a UConn fan. The sustained excellence year after year is not easy, hell it damn near took Tara almost 30 years to get another one. And early on Dawn took her lumps when she had some pretty good teams and still lost to us. She stayed the course and continued to recruit the type of players that she felt would get her over the hump...and won the recruiting battle with Rivers and Johnson as well. SC was the best team all year and I look forward to future games, lots of young talent on both teams.

 

[CocoHusky]

The whole idea of misses is sort of out there. So,who missed on Paige or Azzi or Christyn?Not Geno. Calling not getting a kid a miss is like they didn’t put in the effort. Just so happens Boston is that kind of difference maker if the only thing that matters is winning an NC. Getting to the FF 14 years running implies he doesn’t particularly miss.

That is not the way I'm looking at it. It is not a miss IMO if the kid never visited UCONN or showed any interest.
If the kid took the time to visit officially or unofficially then I got think they are interested. Boston visited UCONN campus many times. For Boston's official visit Paige came to UCONN. Boston was crying when she got off the phone to tell Geno no and still crying when she called to tell Dawn yes.

 

[Drumguy]

It's hard to argue that Geno doesn't recruit well when you in the final four for a full decade plus four years.

I think the only class he missed on would be Meg Walkers class. But in his defense there wasn't any great post in that recruiting class.

And even for that year, we ended up with Evina, I believe she was #2 in that class.

 

[Longtime fan]

Our recruiting as been just fine. A roster that includes the likes of Paige, Azzi, AE, Dorka, Nika and CD is enough to win most games. The only significant weakness is not having a proven player that can dominate the paint like Boston can. There are few players that can match her combination of size, athleticism and agressiveness. Somehow some combination of Dorka, Piath, Amari, Ice and Patterson will have to at least keep her honest. Of that group only Dorka is a known entity. She is big enough, has good skills and a high rpm motor. She cannot handle a Boston without help. Piath is the only true center of the bunch and has as yet not shown she can be a steady rotation player much less challenge the best bigs out there. It would be great if Amari can be a good scoring distributer but she isn't a banger. Brady and Patterson are both highly regarded recruits, neither particularly tall but excellent athletes. How useful they will be next year is anyone's guess. A wild card is Griffin. Another non-banger who if she comes back 100% should be able to get her share of rebounds just by out jumping people. This group should be able to control the paint against most any team. Against the Boston's of this world all they have to do is limit the damage and use their own skill sets to create damage of their own.

Well said. I feel compelled to point out that SC isn't just Boston. They have outstanding players deep on the bench. Like last year's number three ranked recruit, for example. Their starting guard yesterday ( Destinee ) was the best guard on the floor. They are the UConn of the Breanna Stewart era, and we are now one of " everyone else." Geno and his staff can build miracles. I think they did so in guiding this team to upset both NC State and Stanford. We got really lucky against Stanford in that they had their worst shooting game of the year ( or close ). Sure, our defense was a factor but Stanford had a really bad day. It happens. So to reach the finals was amazing. Our limitations showed against the machine. We have plenty of talent but, like yesterday, they have to all play at their best. I haven't seen the numbers, but early in the final period we had at least 15 turnovers. And w were 1-4 from the foul line. Compare that to the previous two games. Soon, UCLA will have a 6'7" freshman who is the number one recruit in the nation. Just saying.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I think we should appreciate the committed players that are coming. I've seen some video of Ayanna Patterson, and others. The incoming are nothing to sneeze at. They are good.

Good? Good?! Only good!? Achoo, achoo, ...

 

[Longtime fan]

Long post warning: Back in the day I remember not watching UConn games as much after DT left. One year I tuned in to watch a game against UNC a loss...I remember vividly the difference in guard play and the athleticism of UNC overall. Didn't start really watching again until Maya arrived and discovered the Boneyard with Bria's class. I say all of this because Geno knows what he needs for this team to be successful, as noted he recruited Boston...she chose SC. I trust Geno to go out and get some additional help for this team via the portal. Also, as I get older I realize how lucky and grateful I am as a UConn fan. The sustained excellence year after year is not easy, hell it damn near took Tara almost 30 years to get another one. And early on Dawn took her lumps when she had some pretty good teams and still lost to us. She stayed the course and continued to recruit the type of players that she felt would get her over the hump...and won the recruiting battle with Rivers and Johnson as well. SC was the best team all year and I look forward to future games, lots of young talent on both teams.

She also recruited A'jai Wilson, no?

 

[Longtime fan]

Good? Good?! Only good!? Achoo, achoo, ...

They are more than good. Ones described as one of the best athletes anyone has seen in the game. And so are the two guards committed for the following year. But they are" traditional" guards in size and talent. I don't mean buy saying that to underplay their abilities. Shade is amazing. I saw her in her HS Indiana State championship game ( her team
won ) and she is brilliant. But she is 5'10 I think. I have not seen KK play. But soon, and probably at South Carolina, the game will start seeing guards that are regularly 6'3" or bigger. And just as athletic and just as good shooters. In any case, UCONN is drawing fantastic talent. We will be highly competitive. And potentially national champs. But it will no longer be because we are much better than everyone else.