End of Year Awards | Page 2 | The Boneyard

End of Year Awards

bbsamjj said:
And who do we have on the 10 person WNBCA All Americans (I'm not ranking, just counting)

1. LOCK: Clark
2. LOCK: Brink
3. LOCK: Paige
4. LOCK: Juju
5. LOCK: Hidalgo
6. LOCK: Kitley
7. LOCK: Someone from South Carolina (probably Cardoso)
8. LOCK: Someone from LSU (probably Reese)
9. Probably a LOCK: Pilli
10.Maybe a LOCK: A. Lee

Might sneak in: A. Edwards, M. Booker, Morrow, Paopao
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Jacy Sheldon, Raegan Beers, Kiki Rice, Kiki Iriafen, Lauren Betts, Mackenzie Holmes, Jaylyn Sherrod, and Georgia Amoore are all strong candidates too. I don't see Lee as a lock due to 7 games missed. Morrow/Edwards are having strong years but I can't see either LSU/UCONN getting 2 players at this point.
 
All great names bballnut90, and the more I think about it, the more I think it will be tougher for ANY school to get two names on a 10 player list, given how much parity there has been this season [and the one team that could get 2 players--SC--is the ultimate in balanced production]. That would impact Iriafen and Amoore, even though they are both having amazing seasons.

Sheldon is a name no one talks about and yet she is once again shooting over 50% as a 2-guard while taking nearly 13 shots a game. I would have no issue with Beers taking the A. Lee spot; I hope she is not out long.
 
Centerstream said:
I would have a hard time with a conference POY that "missed" a couple of games due to undisclosed reasons (unless it was a medical issue, then, nevermind). Even though the award is for the Player, the player should also be judged by her impact as a team player.
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WBCA Criteria for POY...

Criteria​

□ Present year game-by-game statistics
□ Effect on team
□ Leadership
□ Character
□ Overall playing ability

If I were a voter, at least one, maybe two candidates would have an issue with number 4

I vote for Cameron Brink as POY
 
bbsamjj said:
And who do we have on the 10 person WNBCA All Americans (I'm not ranking, just counting)

1. LOCK: Clark
2. LOCK: Brink
3. LOCK: Paige
4. LOCK: Juju
5. LOCK: Hidalgo
6. LOCK: Kitley
7. LOCK: Someone from South Carolina (probably Cardoso)
8. LOCK: Someone from LSU (probably Reese)
9. Probably a LOCK: Pilli
10.Maybe a LOCK: A. Lee

Might sneak in: A. Edwards, M. Booker, Morrow, Paopao
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This is darned good list but I would put Pilli as a lock. That leaves 3 spots for about eight to ten players that could be worthy of mention.
 
For the 5 player team I’m guessing

Clark
Hidalgo
Juju
Brink

And … Kitley?


2nd

Paopao
Paige
Reese
Pili
Cardoso


3rd

Sheldon
Holmes
Beers
Betts
Edwards


HM
Morrow
Rickea
McMahon
Rice
Amoore
A James
Booker
Ayoka
 
That looks about right Vowel. Given VA Tech's recent "resurgence" [back in the top 8 of AP, in drivers seat to win ACC]; and the fact that Kitley was a preseason all american--and having another great season--she fits right in on the first team.

I could see Paige taking one of Hidalgo or JuJu's slots on the first team due to name recognition; PaoPao on the second team feels like a bit of a strech, but not sure who I'd replace with [maybe Beers or Sheldon]. Sherrod should at least be HM. If Betts or Holmes or Edwards fell to HM and replaced with Morrow/Rickea/Amoore/A.James/Booker/Ayoka I wouldn't be offended.
 
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bbsamjj said:
I could see Paige taking one of Hidalgo or JuJu's slots on the first team due to name recognition;
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That would be unfortunate.

In the UConn-nd game, Hidalgo was the best player on the floor and it wasn’t close at all.
And you can’t ignore scoring 50 to beat the #2 or 3 team.

One game does not make a season, but Hidalgo and juju have been pretty spectacular all season.
 
CompSci87 said:
Sure. But there doesn't have to be a transfer of the year award.
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Way, way before the transfer portal madness, some conferences had a separate award for Freshman of the Year and Newcomer of the Year. Impact transfers have been around for a long time.
 
Vowelguy said:
That would be unfortunate.

In the UConn-nd game, Hidalgo was the best player on the floor and it wasn’t close at all.
And you can’t ignore scoring 50 to beat the #2 or 3 team.

One game does not make a season, but Hidalgo and juju have been pretty spectacular all season.
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I generally agree all around, and I know anyone can have a bad game, but did you notice JuJu shot of 6 of 32 last night vs. Oregon State?
 
... and JuJu was 11-33 in her first game against OSU. She's the definition of "volume shooter".

Color me unimpressed. She has talent, but I just can't imagine that there aren't 10 players better than her in the country.
 
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bennyskid said:
... and JuJu was 11-33 in her first game against OSU. She's the definition of "volume shooter".

Color me unimpressed. She has talent, but I just can't imagine that there aren't 10 players better than her in the country.
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Ask Tara her opinion on that
 
She's below her team's average for FG%, 3Pt%, and has a negative A/TO ratio. When I played rec-league ball, we called that "being a ball-hog". And, yes, I'm sure that it's all part of the game plan and the coach feels that she can generate scoring opportunities that others can't - in particular, she's excellent at getting to the FT line. So she's a star. But how many All-Americans have as their best statistic "leads conference in FTAs"?
Put her at 3rd string. Bump Lauren Betts up to 2nd.
And while we're are at, trade Pili out for Raegan Beers. Rae absolutely ate Pili alive in both head-to-heads.
 
My prediction will be something like this:

1st: Caitin Clark, Juju Watkins, Angel Reese, Cameron Brink, Kamila Cardoso

Comments: I think it should be Hidalgo over Watkins, but Juju has the name recognition and higher profile team, so she gets the nod. Cardoso gets 1st team as the best player on the best team. Reese gets repeat honors (I think she has the stats to back it up). Brink gets promoted over Mackenzie Holmes due to the H2H matchup.

2nd: Hanna Hidalgo, Jacy Sheldon, Alyssa Pili, Mackenzie Holmes, Elizabeth Kitley

Comments: Hidalgo is borderline first team and no worse than 2nd team. Pili, Holmes and Kitley were all either 1st or 2nd team last year, and none of them have done badly enough to drop below at least 2nd team. Sheldon is a bit of a long horse, but she has the stats and OSU is #2 in the country. She's probably the least likely to get 2nd team.

3rd: Te-Hina Paopao, Jaylyn Sherod/Saniya Rivers, Aneesah Morrow, Aliyah Edwards, Lauren Betts

Comments: Morrow and Edwards hold their 3rd team honors from last season. Betts kept UCLA at #2 for a long portion of the season and has been a difference maker for the Bruins. Paopao gets the bump as the best guard (statistically) on the #1 team and to make up for LSU having two spots (really hard not to give it to Morrow given how well she's fit into LSU while improving her shooting from last season); I can see her getting left off though. Last spot was tough to pick. I'll give it to either Sherod from Colorado or Rivers from NCState for being the respective engines for their overachieving teams.

HM: Sherod/Rivers loser from above, Bueckers (yes, controversial on a UConn board, but both her and Edwards aren't getting honors this year), Rickea Jackson. Cotie McMahon, Kiki Iriafen, Madison Booker, Ayoka Lee, Georgia Amoore, Raegan Beers, Charisma Osbourne, Mikayla Williams, Audi Crooks
 
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bennyskid said:
. . . and leading in shots taken by an even wider margin. That impresses me less than Iriafen averaging a double-double.

I just think that an All-American should shoot better than the average player on their own team. An AA guard should have more As than TOs.
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Your points about Watkins are valid, but anyone who walks into the situation at USC, becomes the program leader and immediately makes them a contender in a loaded conference is going to be recognized nationally. Per the ESPN page, she's shooting 41.7% overall and 34.5% from 3, while USC is at 42.9% and 35.8%. That's not substantially lower.

She of course has things to clean up but when a freshman comes on the scene like that and puts up her overall numbers on what was a marginal team, they are going to receive lots of attention.
 
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Well, if the question is who will win, Juju is a shoo-in. Voters love them some scoring.
If the question is who should win . . . she's in my 3rd string.
 
bennyskid said:
. . . and leading in shots taken by an even wider margin. That impresses me less than Iriafen averaging a double-double.

I just think that an All-American should shoot better than the average player on their own team. An AA guard should have more As than TOs.
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I understand your point but I think you need to take in the context of the teams that players are on.

If I played on a rec team with Lebron I'd probably have a higher shooting percentage than him, because I'd only shoot when I had a wide open layup, and I'd expect him to take every single difficult, bail-out shot.
 
amb3096 said:
My prediction will be something like this:

1st: Caitin Clark, Juju Watkins, Angel Reese, Cameron Brink, Kamila Cardoso

Comments: I think it should be Hidalgo over Watkins, but Juju has the name recognition and higher profile team, so she gets the nod. Cardoso gets 1st team as the best player on the best team. Reese gets repeat honors (I think she has the stats to back it up). Brink gets promoted over Mackenzie Holmes due to the H2H matchup.

2nd: Hanna Hidalgo, Jacy Sheldon, Alyssa Pili, Mackenzie Holmes, Elizabeth Kitley

Comments: Hidalgo is borderline first team and no worse than 2nd team. Pili, Holmes and Kitley were all either 1st or 2nd team last year, and none of them have done badly enough to drop below at least 2nd team. Sheldon is a bit of a long horse, but she has the stats and OSU is #2 in the country. She's probably the least likely to get 2nd team.

3rd: Te-Hina Paopao, Jaylyn Sherod/Saniya Rivers, Aneesah Morrow, Aliyah Edwards, Lauren Betts

Comments: Morrow and Edwards hold their 3rd team honors from last season. Betts kept UCLA at #2 for a long portion of the season and has been a difference maker for the Bruins. Paopao gets the bump as the best guard (statistically) on the #1 team and to make up for LSU having two spots (really hard not to give it to Morrow given how well she's fit into LSU while improving her shooting from last season); I can see her getting left off though. Last spot was tough to pick. I'll give it to either Sherod from Colorado or Rivers from NCState for being the respective engines for their overachieving teams.

HM: Sherod/Rivers loser from above, Bueckers (yes, controversial on a UConn board, but both her and Edwards aren't getting honors this year), Rickea Jackson. Cotie McMahon, Kiki Iriafen, Madison Booker, Ayoka Lee, Georgia Amoore, Raegan Beers, Charisma Osbourne, Mikayla Williams, Audi Crooks
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I know there is a debate among UConn fans about who is more deserving to be recognized between Bueckers and Edwards, but I would be shocked if voters don't honor Paige due to MUCH higher name ID, plus the fact that she's having a great comeback season.

IMO, if voters are going to honor someone from NC State, I think it's A. James.
 
Vowelguy said:
I understand your point but I think you need to take in the context of the teams that players are on.

If I played on a rec team with Lebron I'd probably have a higher shooting percentage than him, because I'd only shoot when I had a wide open layup, and I'd expect him to take every single difficult, bail-out shot.
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Then wouldn't you expect the team as a whole to have good shooting percentages?
USC as a team is eighth in the conference for shooting percentage. They are admittedly better from the arc (third in conference). JuJu doesn't seem to be opening up the others for better shots like you describe.
And it's not like the rest of USC is a bunch of schlubs. Gayles was the #8 recruit, Bigby was #29, Forbes a McDAA, and so on. Juju is not making them better like LeBron makes you better on your rec team.
 
I am skeptical that with her stark shooting inefficiency and negative assist-to-turnover ratio, JuJu can make AP and/or USBWA first team AA. Historically, it seems, AP and USBWA voters have been reluctant to place freshman on the first team.

The complete AP freshman first team AA list (beginning in 1995) is Courtney Paris, Maya Moore and Paige Bueckers. Logically, the voters that kept Caitlin Clark off the first team her first year because of concerns about her turnovers should not be JuJu voters. The USBWA (beginning in 1988) has had 7 freshman first team AAs, but only Paige and Caitlin Clark made the USBWA first team as freshman in a year when the USBWA was picking a 5-player team.
 
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bennyskid said:
. . . and leading in shots taken by an even wider margin. That impresses me less than Iriafen averaging a double-double.

I just think that an All-American should shoot better than the average player on their own team. An AA guard should have more As than TOs.
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Fun fact: Caitlin Clark has shot lower than her team’s percentage all 4 years she’s played. Should she not make an All America team either?


Team success is one of the biggest indicators for making an All America team. Juju Watkins isn’t the most efficient but fact is she’s 2nd in the nation in points per game and is carrying a top 10 team on her back. She’s carried them to wins at Stanford, vs. UCLA, at Ohio State and at Oregon State and has averaged 33 ppg in those contests. Inefficiency, turnovers and all, there aren’t 5 players having a better season than Watkins is. She’s an All American.
 
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Bueckers or Kitley? Who gets the final spot on the AP first team?
 
bballnut90 said:
Fun fact: Caitlin Clark has shot lower than her team’s percentage all 4 years she’s played. Should she not make an All America team either?
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Of course she did, as a guard. Iowa led the nation in FG% her first three years, and is 2nd this year. Also, Iowa’s eFG% is 2nd in the nation this year, but Clark’s eFG% is higher this year.
 
triaddukefan said:
Bueckers or Kitley? Who gets the final spot on the AP first team?
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I’d put Kitley on there as of right now. Better stats, better in big games, and better team results. My 5 would be Clark, Brink, Watkins, Hidalgo and Kitley. 2nd Team I’d choose Bueckers, Cardoso, Reese, Pili and Sheldon. Beers and Lee are just misses at this point for me.
 
BigTenGuy said:
I am skeptical that with her stark shooting inefficiency and negative assist-to-turnover ratio, JuJu can make AP and/or USBWA first team AA. Historically, it seems, AP and USBWA voters have been reluctant to place freshman on the first team.

The complete AP freshman first team AA list (beginning in 1995) is Courtney Paris, Maya Moore and Paige Bueckers. Logically, the voters that kept Caitlin Clark off the first team her first year because of concerns about her turnovers should not be JuJu voters. The USBWA (beginning in 1988) has had 7 freshman first team AAs, but only Paige and Caitlin Clark made the USBWA first team as freshman in a year when the USBWA was picking a 5-player team.
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I'm an Iowa fan -- but we did not have the same level of regular season success in 2020-2021 (Clark's freshman year) that USC has had so far this season. I think that makes Watkins more likely to get a 1st team nod. Clark also had the disadvantage of playing the same position as fellow freshman Bueckers who got more of the media attention being the #1 recruit on a better team. Like Bueckers, Watkins also has the allure of being the #1 recruit.
 
bennyskid said:
Then wouldn't you expect the team as a whole to have good shooting percentages?
USC as a team is eighth in the conference for shooting percentage. They are admittedly better from the arc (third in conference). JuJu doesn't seem to be opening up the others for better shots like you describe.
And it's not like the rest of USC is a bunch of schlubs. Gayles was the #8 recruit, Bigby was #29, Forbes a McDAA, and so on. Juju is not making them better like LeBron makes you better on your rec team.
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Gayles was tragically the victim of a shooting that made her miss her entire freshman year. The fact that she is back on the team as a redshirt frosh is a minor miracle, but she's only appeared in 7 games this year.

The USC team looks a lot different than last year's team, not just because of Juju, but there's no question this year's version is MUCH better offensively than last year's:

this year's USC: 74ppg, 43%FG, 36% 3-ptFG
last year's USC: 64.2ppg, 38%FG, 32.5% 3-ptFG

Meanwhile, they have wins over the #2, #3, #9 (Twice), and #12 teams in the country.
 
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