East Coast Football Alliance

[Ldandy]

Going to FBS to FCS increases expenses by eight-figures yearly.

Villanova loses over $20M annually on athletics - adding FBS football would mean losing $30-35M a year.

Reality is that everyone outside of the P5 is getting shelled by their football programs. I'm not sure why anyone would sign up for that these days.

Obviously you don't understand the pent up demand in the greater Philadelphia Area to see Villanova battle James Madison as FBS Programs instead of FCS Ones. Well worth the unnecessary expense of upgrading...

 

[Zissou]

Going to FBS to FCS increases expenses by eight-figures yearly.

Villanova loses over $20M annually on athletics - adding FBS football would mean losing $30-35M a year.

Reality is that everyone outside of the P5 is getting shelled by their football programs. I'm not sure why anyone would sign up for that these days.

What is the average MAC expense on football?

 

[Zissou]

Obviously you don't understand the pent up demand in the greater Philadelphia Area to see Villanova battle James Madison as FBS Programs instead of FCS Ones. Well worth the unnecessary expense of upgrading...

You might remember the Penn State trip to the Linc?!?

 

[Zissou]

No one is advocating that JMU, UD, or Nova chase the UConn model.

What is proposed is MAC level football as an independent FBS program.

In the cases of Nova, JMU, and UD, we are already spending at MAC rates for an FCS product. There is no additional stadium infrastructure in these 3 cases. The increase in costs are modest. Extra scholarships and womens' matches are incremental. The expenses will look bigger than actual impact as we won't consider sunk fixed costs being spread over extra athletes, but rather we will look at full opportunity costs. That's ok.

UConn seems to have multiple issues to tackle in expenses. Women's basketball spends about as much as MAC football, but it's probably worth it for the Revenue + Engagement to the school.

The biggest target would seem to be the Not Allocated expenses. Too many expenses that aren't being properly applied to the sports? That is, are some football expenses hidden unallocated? Or is there too much overhead?

3 areas in the athletic costing seem unusually elevated - (i) game expenses and travel, (ii) coaching salaries (full staff), and (iii) admin expenses. I was surprised to see the facility expenses were very reasonable. The Rent does not seem to be an excessive expense for UConn directly. Recruiting costs are in line.

 

[Ldandy]

You might remember the Penn State trip to the Linc?!?

I'm not sure what you're grasping at here? I've been to a number of Penn State v. Temple Games in Philly including multiple games at The Linc. Regardless of the outcome of any of these contests, I have no flipping idea what any of that has to do with Villanova, Delaware, or James Madison upgrading to play FBS Football? Especially when you advocate that they continue to play many of the same teams they are already playing as FCS Schools.

Your constant posting here would make sense if your position was to advocate UConn dropping down to FCS to join Nova in The CAA. An existing regional FCS Conference and a potential cost saver might appeal to some. That said the overwhelming majority of Uconn Supporters have minimal interest and even less sway over what any of these other schools' athletic departments decide to do with football in the future.

Wouldn't it make 100X more sense to post these ideas on the boards of the schools that you are trying to influence to upgrade? UConn's already FBS and will likely remain that way for the near term. What else exactly should they be doing that they already aren't?

 

[Adios]

These people think they can do more magic than Criss Angel and David Copperfield combined using social media. Internet LaVar Balls.

 

[CL82]

Going to FBS to FCS increases expenses by eight-figures yearly.

Villanova loses over $20M annually on athletics - adding FBS football would mean losing $30-35M a year.

Reality is that everyone outside of the P5 is getting shelled by their football programs. I'm not sure why anyone would sign up for that these days.

Because they attracted the lure of a P5 $35M+ TV rights distribution and discount the fact they will never have a seat at the table.

 

[Pudge]

You are throwing shade …

We have often discussed the Revenue side of FCS. As much as I would agree that FCS adds eight-figure expenses on climbing to FBS, there is the potential for Revenue. Selling tickets on campus for FCS is about your only avenue of revenue now. With streaming and big buy games (which they already do - mostly 1 per year), the $ could be 2-3x greater than the increase in expenses. Not more than $3-5m. But significant to a FCS level Program. My view is the only big stumbling block for most of these schools is the potential to gain Playoffs in FCS; which can't be that much money yet prized. Let Fox throw a bowl.

I think Independence only works if there is 10-12 total with 8 or so on our side of the country. The notion that you limp through 4 weeks of November with nothing schedules is the biggest complaint from BYU - who is the ground level case study for this.

 

[Zissou]

I'm not sure what you're grasping at here? I've been to a number of Penn State v. Temple Games in Philly including multiple games at The Linc. Regardless of the outcome of any of these contests, I have no flipping idea what any of that has to do with Villanova, Delaware, or James Madison upgrading to play FBS Football? Especially when you advocate that they continue to play many of the same teams they are already playing as FCS Schools.

Your constant posting here would make sense if your position was to advocate UConn dropping down to FCS to join Nova in The CAA. An existing regional FCS Conference and a potential cost saver might appeal to some. That said the overwhelming majority of Uconn Supporters have minimal interest and even less sway over what any of these other schools' athletic departments decide to do with football in the future.

Wouldn't it make 100X more sense to post these ideas on the boards of the schools that you are trying to influence to upgrade? UConn's already FBS and will likely remain that way for the near term. What else exactly should they be doing that they already aren't?

Philly college football has a lot more potential.

Temple-Nova is already competitive. It will be better when both are FBS.

Advocating for UConn dropping to FCS is nonsense. UConn can bring its costs in line and be a credible independent.

An independent schedule is difficult. It would be easier with a handful of peer FBS independents that could be regional rivals.

Last time that penn state visited the Linc they were spanked. If Temple can do it, so can Nova and UConn.

My first allegiance is always Nova, so I have that bias. I also want UConn to succeed. I have some personal Connecticut interests.

 

[Kolumbo]

Philly college football has a lot more potential.

Temple-Nova is already competitive. It will be better when both are FBS.

Advocating for UConn dropping to FCS is nonsense. UConn can bring its costs in line and be a credible independent.

An independent schedule is difficult. It would be easier with a handful of peer FBS independents that could be regional rivals.

Last time that penn state visited the Linc they were spanked. If Temple can do it, so can Nova and UConn.

My first allegiance is always Nova, so I have that bias. I also want UConn to succeed. I have some personal Connecticut interests.

I'm onto your long play. Hoping to get competitive games for Nova so you can eventually get an ACC invite.

 

[Zissou]

I'm onto your long play. Hoping to get competitive games for Nova so you can eventually get an ACC invite.

Ha! I’d rather be in the Big East than even the ACC!

The AAC is pretty undesirable.

 

[Ldandy]

Philly college football has a lot more potential.

Temple-Nova is already competitive. It will be better when both are FBS.

Advocating for UConn dropping to FCS is nonsense. UConn can bring its costs in line and be a credible independent.

An independent schedule is difficult. It would be easier with a handful of peer FBS independents that could be regional rivals.

Last time that penn state visited the Linc they were spanked. If Temple can do it, so can Nova and UConn.

My first allegiance is always Nova, so I have that bias. I also want UConn to succeed. I have some personal Connecticut interests.

Once again you fail to explain why you are politicking for this on the board of the school whose team is already playing FBS Football. Wouldn't your time be better served trying to galvanize support among the fan bases whose football programs you believe need to be elevated? Again what is the point of drilling this into UConn's Fans Heads? Its not their fault that Nova wouldn't s*** or get off the pot when a possible Big East Call Up was a real possibility.

 

[Adios]

His mission here is complete. Now he must move onto JMU, Delaware, Villanova, etc, message boards for years to make this dream come true.

 

[Zissou]

Once again you fail to explain why you are politicking for this on the board of the school whose team is already playing FBS Football. Wouldn't your time be better served trying to galvanize support among the fan bases whose football programs you believe need to be elevated? Again what is the point of drilling this into UConn's Fans Heads? Its not their fault that Nova wouldn't s*** or get off the pot when a possible Big East Call Up was a real possibility.

UConn is committed to the Big East, but UConn has said it still needs to figure out its football plan.

UConn is the catalyst for change here, changing the status quo. Not the other three.

This is the second time I’ve explained why I’m here. Why are you?

 

[Zissou]

His mission here is complete. Now he must move onto JMU, Delaware, Villanova, etc, message boards for years to make this dream come true.

UConn to the Big East is certainly a mission complete. Now I’ll help you fix football.

 

[Ldandy]

UConn is committed to the Big East, but UConn has said it still needs to figure out its football plan.

UConn is the catalyst for change here, changing the status quo. Not the other three.

This is the second time I’ve explained why I’m here. Why are you?

You make no flipping sense. How in the hell is UConn a catalyst for change for other schools? Uconn can already schedule any of these FCS Programs whenever they wish. What are they going to do, demand that these other programs upgrade to FBS if they want a game with UConn? Delaware will just collect their check from somebody else. As for why I'm here, that really need not concern you. I post in threads about UConn that interest me because I'm a fan of the football program. I don't come here to push some bizarre agenda understood by exactly one person on Earth.

 

[Pudge]

You make no flipping sense. How in the hell is UConn a catalyst for change for other schools? Uconn can already schedule any of these FCS Programs whenever they wish. What are they going to do, demand that these other programs upgrade to FBS if they want a game with UConn? Delaware will just collect their check from somebody else. As for why I'm here, that really need not concern you. I post in threads about UConn that interest me because I'm a fan of the football program. I don't come here to push some bizarre agenda understood by exactly one person on Earth.

Fact is ... UMass & UCONN being independent - with access to any sources of revenue makes the revenue prospects to a few better. I don’t know what their options are realistically. But expenses - regardless of division - are increasing. There’s no life raft for us. We are going to play them.

 

[Ldandy]

Fact is ... UMass & UCONN being independent - with access to any sources of revenue makes the revenue prospects to a few better. I don’t know what their options are realistically. But expenses - regardless of division - are increasing. There’s no life raft for us. We are going to play them.

That's been my point to Zizou. Out of necessity UConn and Umass are going to be playing schools like Nova, JMU, and Delaware already. They'll show up for a game and the AD will cut them a check. Why would any of these schools go through the expense of upgrading 20 more full scholarships for football and a required 20 more full scholarships on the women's side to satisfy Title 9, when they can already get these teams on their schedule by doing nothing more than picking up the phone?

The AAC is barely getting 5 million dollars(after expenses) with a lineup of teams that have competed for and won NY6 Bowl Games. "The Alliance" or whatever its being called would be lucky to get Sunbelt Money and distribution. How does this offset the additional costs? Putting an FBS label on Nova or Delaware isn't going to be some kind of magic formula for attendance or fan support if their schedule remains basically unchanged. Maybe ND or Penn State will play you in a pro football stadium once every 50 years as an away team. Seems worth it.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Like the Spartacus Energizer Bunny in pink fur and sunglasses, he just keeps going and going and going

 

[Zissou]

You make no flipping sense. How in the hell is UConn a catalyst for change for other schools? Uconn can already schedule any of these FCS Programs whenever they wish. What are they going to do, demand that these other programs upgrade to FBS if they want a game with UConn? Delaware will just collect their check from somebody else. As for why I'm here, that really need not concern you.

Dandy you be thick.

They point isn’t playing these programs as FCS. That’s a stain on the schedule. The entire point is to play as FBS. There is some comfort in the Indy schedule with more numbers in that pool. Take a breath, step back, and try to grasp the concept.

UConn is the school that is making a change, and today has an “undecided” path forward. That is why they are the catalyst for change. The other programs are status quo for now.

I really don’t care why you are here, I was just asking to be nice since you asked me a few times.

I remember about a month ago when y’all were all distressed about me advocating for a Big East invite. It turns out only a vocal 9% were against, and you all talked each other into a delusion that it wasn’t possible.

UConn has some work to do on its football position. Until they do, don’t count out reasonable solutions. It might be a little scary at first, but you’ll get used to it.

 

[Ldandy]

Dandy you be thick.

They point isn’t playing these programs as FCS. That’s a stain on the schedule. The entire point is to play as FBS. There is some comfort in the Indy schedule with more numbers in that pool. Take a breath, step back, and try to grasp the concept.

UConn is the school that is making a change, and today has an “undecided” path forward. That is why they are the catalyst for change. The other programs are status quo for now.

I really don’t care why you are here, I was just asking to be nice since you asked me a few times.

I remember about a month ago when y’all were all distressed about me advocating for a Big East invite. It turns out only a vocal 9% were against, and you all talked each other into a delusion that it wasn’t possible.

UConn has some work to do on its football position. Until they do, don’t count out reasonable solutions. It might be a little scary at first, but you’ll get used to it.

Answer this question please. How is playing a bunch of teams that you already play as an FCS Program suddenly better because both are FBS? Fans will not give a flying duck* if Delaware is FBS or FCS, they will still be Delaware.

UConn upgraded to play Miami, VPI, BC, Cuse, Pitt etc. Through bad luck and bad business practices they ended up where they are. You had a chance to join them once upon a time and passed. Why the hell would any AD voluntarily sign up to join them in purgatory now?

What you are proposing is throwing good money after bad. UConn's Choice to leave The AAC was to preserve basketball and start digging out of the giant hole that was athletics post OBE. It was self preservation not some grand plan to lead a dinky east coast alliance of lost boy programs. Stay where you are, play basketball and be happy. Odds are far better that UConn joins you in FCS a few seasons from now than all the programs you are advocating join them.

 

[Zissou]

Answer this question please. How is playing a bunch of teams that you already play as an FCS Program suddenly better because both are FBS?

From a UConn perspective playing more than 1 FCS program hurts your national perception and your bowl prospects.

From a Nova, UD, JMU perspective, playing regional rivals in a FBS alliance allows for the rest of the schedule to be filled with interesting FBS matches from regional teams that are in other conferences. Navy, MD, Penn State, ND, etc.

Look at the average football expenses in the MAC. Why does managing an FBS program to MAC expenses seem impossible to you?

 

[Ldandy]

From a UConn perspective playing more than 1 FCS program hurts your national perception and your bowl prospects.

From a Nova, UD, JMU perspective, playing regional rivals in a FBS alliance allows for the rest of the schedule to be filled with interesting FBS matches from regional teams that are in other conferences. Navy, MD, Penn State, ND, etc.

Look at the average football expenses in the MAC. Why does managing an FBS program to MAC expenses seem impossible to you?

1)UConn can't control whether a bunch of FCS Schools bump up to FBS to give them a better schedule. They'll schedule one or two of these FCS Games a year and live with whatever the perception of that is.

2)Nova already plays a bunch of regional rivals in The CAA including Delaware and James Madison. The rest of the schedule would not be filled with interesting games like Penn State, UMD and ND. It would be filled with a bunch of dreck like New Mexico State and Liberty. You probably can get one of these top teams on the road or score a "Home" game against one of them at The Linc as a part of some larger scheduling arrangement same as Temple has done in the past. Once again is this worth subsidizing 40 more full scholarships, adding coaching staffs, support personnel, additional travel costs etc. etc. etc.?

3)It doesn't seem impossible, it seems pointless. Every school in The MAC loses money on athletics. Villanona already subsidizes athletics by close to 20 million dollars. Why exactly is deepening that hole so appealing to you? You will not make money on football playing at the level you are proposing. If this was a debate 20 years ago regarding Nova joining the OBE as a football member I would say go for it. I like the idea of more regional FBS Schools not less. That said the type of schedule that you are proposing is not going to move the needle for anybody.

 

[Zissou]

1)UConn can't control whether a bunch of FCS Schools bump up to FBS to give them a better schedule. They'll schedule one or two of these FCS Games a year and live with whatever the perception of that is.

2)Nova already plays a bunch of regional rivals in The CAA including Delaware and James Madison. The rest of the schedule would not be filled with interesting games like Penn State, UMD and ND. It would be filled with a bunch of dreck like New Mexico State and Liberty. You probably can get one of these top teams on the road or score a "Home" game against one of them at The Linc as a part of some larger scheduling arrangement same as Temple has done in the past. Once again is this worth subsidizing 40 more full scholarships, adding coaching staffs, support personnel, additional travel costs etc. etc. etc.?

3)It doesn't seem impossible, it seems pointless. Every school in The MAC loses money on athletics. Villanona already subsidizes athletics by close to 20 million dollars. Why exactly is deepening that hole so appealing to you? You will not make money on football playing at the level you are proposing. If this was a debate 20 years ago regarding Nova joining the OBE as a football member I would say go for it. I like the idea of more regional FBS Schools not less. That said the type of schedule that you are proposing is not going to move the needle for anybody.

1- I never said UConn could control this. They would have to collaborate.

2- the vast majority of athletic departments have expenses that exceed direct revenue. Nova could choose to prioritize these scholarships. The MAC does and they manage it OK. UConn’s landscape is completely different. UConn is state funded, the state is broke, and UConn has grossly overspent.

3- the cost increase would be modest, and the gains would be modest. The cost increases may be greatly offset by revenue.

I take it you don’t like the idea and don’t fully grasp the concepts, but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

 

[Zissou]

Every school in The MAC loses money on athletics.

How many schools in the AAC turn a profit from athletics?

 

[don356]

When you cut into the numbers my friend there are only a handful of schools across the country who turn a real profit from athletics. That includes the P5 schools. Much funny math involved, and that's from someone with a cpa.

 

[Zissou]

When you cut into the numbers my friend there are only a handful of schools across the country who turn a real profit from athletics. That includes the P5 schools. Much funny math involved, and that's from someone with a cpa.

Exactly.

 

[Ldandy]

When you cut into the numbers my friend there are only a handful of schools across the country who turn a real profit from athletics. That includes the P5 schools. Much funny math involved, and that's from someone with a cpa.

This is true, so why double down on losing money? The market for TV Deals for programs like UCF and BSU was bad enough, and they have won BCS Games, what could anybody honestly expect Delaware and James Madison to command?

 

[Ldandy]

1- I never said UConn could control this. They would have to collaborate.

Scheduling them as FCS Opponents is one form of collaborating. How exactly does the opportunity to regularly play Uconn, Umass and maybe Army get all of these other schools to approve the not insignificant cost of an FBS Football Team when they can already get games with them?

2- the vast majority of athletic departments have expenses that exceed direct revenue. Nova could choose to prioritize these scholarships. The MAC does and they manage it OK. UConn’s landscape is completely different. UConn is state funded, the state is broke, and UConn has grossly overspent.

Right. So why are you so hell bent in joining them. You should have done it in the late 90s. What benefit is there in this now?

3- the cost increase would be modest, and the gains would be modest. The cost increases may be greatly offset by revenue.

What revenue? Did you see the AAC's Deal? The one that features football schools like UCF, CIncy and UH that people would actually watch on television? Did you read what The MWC, which includes media darling Boise State, is up against? There is no money for low end G5 Teams. Not for The Sunbelt, MAC, CUSA none of them. Once again you need to offset the cost of 40 more scholarships, more coaches, support staff, facilities, travel etc.

I take it you don’t like the idea and don’t fully grasp the concepts, but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

I don't like or dislike the idea. On one hand I'm all for Eastern Football and the idea of additional opportunities for PA Kids to get full scholarships at Villanova, Delaware or wherever is welcome in my book. That said I simply don't see where the money is going to come from to make it worthwhile to the schools in question. Cable dollars are drying up, and outside of Uconn I don't see any fan bases that would support a streaming format to watch this collection of schools. It was fun discussing this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on the viability of this.

 

[Zissou]

Dandy, Aresco negotiated 2 bad deals. It probably didn’t help that the AAC is a mash up conference of left overs. There is no real identity, and no real brand value.

The East Coast Football Alliance allows for only very modest revenue, but given modest MAC level expenses can offset costs.

The FCS teams moving up are actually more right sized already. UConn has to trim its costs to better fit in its landscape of a publicly funded program an a fiscally challenged state.

The perspective isn’t a P5 level program. You may not be able to grasp this as a Penn Stater of a UConn fan still chasing the P5.

This plan is a compromise and making the best of a non P5 independent status. Create some reasonable regional rivalries all at the FBS levels, get a few attractive matches on the schedule each year outside of the alliance, seek a modest revenue position, and strive for the seasons where a team could be ranked and go to a bowl.

All of this happens while the hoop team plays in a power basketball conference with a good TV deal, and some freedom for the women’s program.

Dandy, without the alliance, please list your view of who may be on the schedule 3 years from now. Who are the 12 teams, and which are home and which are away?