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Duke Rumor about Coach P

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Striper69 said:
I'm reading John Wooden's book "They Call Me Coach" right now. He said in the book that he made sure he gave encouragement after any criticism he gave to any of his players...
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YOU HAVE TO! I can't stress that enough. Key for player confidence.
 
BlueDevils said:
Oh okay. We could for sure use Kianna Holland right now. I wish any of us Duke fans could tell you why she left... I will say if Duke doesn't perform well in this tournament I really think the athletic department needs to have a long talk with Joanne.
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I was very surprised that she transferred. I mean, I'm happy she did because she came back to Ohio State, her original commitment, but from what I remember she was kind of instrumental in convincing other players from her recruiting class to commit to Duke. Whether was was just talking to them about how great it is there or what, I was sure she was Duke's for good. But maybe it just wasn't the right fit for her.
 
JS said:
You don't suppose that's a pointed reference to someone, do you?

espnw_ap_mccallieinline_300.jpg

“I'm not pleased with our team's toughness. We really need to be strong on the court. It was a good lesson for us, but not at all the kind of basketball we play.”

"Obviously we didn’t do our part to make it a better game. This is a tough lesson for us and a good opportunity for others. We can take what we learn and grow from it."

"We didn’t do what we needed to do. You can’t take everything away from what they’ve done and our season ends on a very learning note."

"Yeah, it was a good game, and hard fought. We've got some great lessons learned for us as we grow in this season, and I think it's a really great thing . . ."

"I have to give credit to this things Stanford did. There’s some lessons for us and I’m sure some lessons I’ll take with us."
'
“This is exactly how we’ve been playing all year. It was consistent and more of the same. We’ve played some great 20 minute ball but we’ve been pretty much non-existent for 40 minute ball. . . . There were some great lessons to learn from.”

“We took a lot of shots, and I think, hopefully, we’re going to learn a valuable lesson when we watch the film,”

Etc. Etc.
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JPM is doing post-doc studies on losing. :)
 
VAUConnFan said:
This forum, for the most part, has never been keen on Coach McCallie, but it is difficult for me to believe that the Duke athletic administration is dissatisfied with a women's basketball program that, for the past seven seasons under Coach McCallie, has won no less than 25 games, has won at least 30 games three times, has been to the Elite 8 four times, and has won the ACC Tournament as the #1 seed three times.
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The Duke success is notable, and most schools would be thrilled with those results, but ...

It pales relative to the Duke men, who play in a much more competitive environment.

It is a poorer record than that of Gail, who made it to multiple Final Fours.

It is disappointing given that they have had top 2-3 talent on paper since JPM arrived.

Several assistants and players appear to have bailed.

JPM has never, to my knowledge, accepted any responsibility. Instead, she repeatedly blamed the players--the players recruited and coached by her.

Plus she keeps making lame statements about "learning," but she doesn't put that knowledge to use.

I'm not saying she's a bad coach, but I think she's underperforming, and her ceiling is lower than Duke probably wants.
 
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MilfordHusky said:
The Duke success is notable, and most schools would be thrilled with those results, but ...

It pales relative to the Duke men, who play in a much more competitive environment.

It is a poorer record than that of Gail, who made it to multiple Final Fours.

It is disappointing given that they have had top 2-3 talent on paper since JPM arrived.

Several assistants and players appear to have bailed.

JPM has never, to my knowledge, accepted any responsibility. Instead, she repeatedly blamed the players--the players recruited and coached by her.

Plus she keeps making lame statements about "learning," but she doesn't put that knowledge to use.

I'm not saying she's a bad coach, but I think she's underperforming, and her ceiling is lower than Duke probably wants.
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Not to mention the public perception and embarrassment with her social media antics.
While her record in general is respectable, it is no where near the potential of her recruits.
 
I do not know who this journalist is, or whether or not he has it "in" for Coach P as alleged. Speaking only for myself, I have voiced extreme criticism of what I perceive to be her significant failings as a coach in two main areas: player development (can one really argue with that?) and inability to make in-game adjustments that might help her team win big games. But my criticism has come from a perspective of one who ardently wishes she were more competent than she obviously is. Sure, I am a UConn fan, first and foremost, though a true fan of WCBB in general. Therefore, unlike many others, I feel that UConn's dominance begins to have a rather hollow feel if other programs decline to step up the level of competition, and if yet another UConn national championship is greeted with a resounding ho-hum around the country, with the inevitable result of mostly empty arenas in the heartland. Yes, I'd like to see Duke dump McCallie, and hire someone significantly better (shouldn't be too hard) and then emerge as a serious competitor and rival that would generate some annual excitement. To suggest that Duke will never get to that point, even with the great talent it recruits, under this coach is not reflective of an anti-Coach P bias, but just a matter of stating the obvious!
 
JS said:
You don't suppose that's a pointed reference to someone, do you?

espnw_ap_mccallieinline_300.jpg

Etc. Etc.
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I think it is more of triggering her laser eyes by touching her temples.
 
I have seen a number of comments on Duke boards referring "the incident" with Calhoun and stating that "this kind of stuff" has been going on for a time and the powers that be at Duke were aware of it. The fact is that her public verbal abuse of her players is a severe and ongoing embarassment to the university and it doesn't take much imagination to imagine what her treatemtn of them in practice must be like. Not good for Duke's image. At all.
 
Zorro said:
I have seen a number of comments on Duke boards referring "the incident" with Calhoun and stating that "this kind of stuff" has been going on for a time and the powers that be at Duke were aware of it. The fact is that her public verbal abuse of her players is a severe and ongoing embarassment to the university and it doesn't take much imagination to imagine what her treatemtn of them in practice must be like. Not good for Duke's image. At all.
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I was going to post something like about this -- and the rumors of a practice video showing a fire-able offense for P. If such a video does exist, and it gets out, then Duke is going to take a major PR hit , especially considering the other recent issues involving the athletics program. Questions will be raised about why she wasn't immediately dismissed. But then again, the local major newspaper doesn't even report all of the Triangle's ACC WBB scores, even in the scoreboard listing, so there could be little interest, media-wise.

Perhaps there is some type of non-disclosure being worked on by different parties. Perhaps Coach P has been told to find another job, and her name is being circulated as interested in openings. (This approach has been used before.) Perhaps this is all wishful thinking.

What I do know is that Coach P is not well liked by certain key Duke leaders anymore, and she doesn't have the support she once did. So, it wouldn't surprise if she wasn't at Duke next year. But the timing of this leak, pre-tourney, seems a little off, unless Coach P is trying to get her name out there.

Personally, I would love to see Banghart at Duke, and I would love to see Duke and NC State the premier programs in the Triangle and UNC doomed forever.
 
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Striper69 said:
I wouldn't be concerned about the Princeton players. It's no secret that most college teams looking for a coach has her in their sights whether she's interested or not.

She should stay at Princeton cause they can do it again next year.
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Sometimes the best job is the one you've got. Lot's of BS and pressure that come with taking $ome "dream" job at these name brand schools. Hope she stays too as I've enjoyed watching Princeton play.
 
Wbbfan1 said:
Mike Flynn is reporting a rumor that Duke Admin is attempting a buyout on Coach P's contract. Want to hire Courtney Banghart Princeton's Coach.
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This is about as low life as one can get showing total disrespect for the players on
both teams at tournament time. It does not sound like anything our AD would
start at this point or at all.
 
wes33 said:
This is about as low life as one can get showing total disrespect for the players on
both teams at tournament time. It does not sound like anything our AD would
start at this point or at all.
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Agree on the not at this point.

"At all" might be overstating it. They're well aware of the issues with Coach P. General wisdom has been those issues aren't severe enough.

Although the Banghart tweet is interesting it seems a bit too gratuitously aggressive against the incumbent, coming from a supposed candidate for her job, to be other than coincidence.

And this would be a very strange time indeed for the admin to broach the subject of a buyout with her. No upside to doing it now unless there's some kind of window of opportunity, for a replacement or under her contract, that isn't visible to us.
 
JS said:
Although the Banghart tweet is interesting it seems a bit too gratuitously aggressive against the incumbent, coming from a supposed candidate for her job, to be other than coincidence.
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Hello!! You play to win the game!
 
j66kicker said:
Hello!! You play to win the game!
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That part of the Banghart quote is standard enough sports talk/cliche.

The part that said you're not in it to learn lessons is what seemed a possible shot at Coach P's continual refrain, given its timing in relation to the rumor.

But if you're bucking for a particular job, bad-mouthing the incumbent seems a pretty dicey way to try to impress your potential employer. You'd likely leave that to others and emphasize the positive things you can bring to the table.
 
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MilfordHusky said:
Duke is disappointing given that they have had top 2-3 talent on paper since JPM arrived. YUP!

JPM has never, to my knowledge, accepted any responsibility. Instead, she repeatedly blamed the players--the players recruited and coached by her. YUP!

I'm not saying she's a bad coach, but I think she's underperforming....
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- I'm saying it- SHE'S A BAD COACH, A REALLY BAD COACH. She consistently gets top talent, she routinely throws that talent under the bus after a loss, and her in-game adjustments seem non-existent.
- Seems like many of her players have issues with McCallie, given the high number of transfers. Speaking of the Devil :) did we ever learn why Sierra Calhoun abruptly up and left the program? And where will she go?
- I'll be very surprised if Duke eats the remaining years on her big-money contract and hires a good replacement.
 
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VAUConnFan said:
This forum, for the most part, has never been keen on Coach McCallie, but it is difficult for me to believe that the Duke athletic administration is dissatisfied with a women's basketball program that, for the past seven seasons under Coach McCallie, has won no less than 25 games, has won at least 30 games three times, has been to the Elite 8 four times, and has won the ACC Tournament as the #1 seed three times.
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As an initial point, this forum was very high on Coach P in her first few seasons at Duke. First, there was a "respect" factor, since she defeated UConn while at Michigan State. Second, she was pretty open about sharing a common Italian heritage with Geno. Third, she made a conscious choice to only play UConn and to discontinue any series with Tennessee.

Second, the conundrum Duke faces is this - how does one "get rid of" (fire or buy out) a coach with the credentials you set forth? On paper, she is a resounding success. Those numbers look great. But compared to her predecessor, Coach P falls significantly short.

Before this season, I compared Goestenkors' last seven years at Duke with McCallie's first seven years with the Blue Devils (2014-2015 is her eighth season at the helm of DWB):

Overall record:
Goestenkors: 220-25 (89.79 percent)
McCallie: 199-41 (82.92 percent)

NCAA record:
Goestenkors: 23-7 (one NCAA runner-up, three Final Fours, five years at least making the Elite eight, all seven years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 16-7 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, five years at least making the Sweet 16, two second round losses)

Against UConn:
Goestenkors: 2-2 (2-2 for her career; 2-1 against UConn over her last seven years)
McCallie: 0-7 (and only one loss was less than 22 points)

Against Top 5 Opponents:
Goestenkors: 14-13 (51.85 percent)
McCallie: 7-21 (25.00 percent)

Against Top 10 Opponents:
Goestenkors: 25-13 (65.79 percent)
McCallie: 18-23 (43.90 percent)


When factoring in this season, McCallie's record at Duke against Top 5 opponents is now 7-24 (22.5 percent). Against Top 10 opponents, it is now 20-28 (41.67 percent).
 
CamrnCrz1974 makes outstanding points. But is a comparison to one's predecessor a valid criteria for an early contract buyout? How, then, is anyone going to survive at UConn once Coach Auriemma leaves?

It is fair to say that the Duke women's program was never better than they were in Coach Goestenkors' last seven seasons. It is also fair to say that if a good team was going to beat UConn, their best chances were between 2005-2007 inclusive.

Coach McCallie has never coached a Wade Trophy caliber player that could take over big games. She has had good players and good teams and it is naturally fair to question whether another coach could have done better.

Coach Goestenkors, by rights, should be 0-4 against UConn. Duke won the 2004 game in Connecticut on a last second three when UConn, inexplicably, did not pressure the ball after Taurasi banked in the floater from the right side to put them up with less than ten seconds remaining. Duke won the Elite 8 game in Bridgeport despite shooting 29%. How in the world is UConn supposed to lose a game when they hold an opponent under 30%, Charde Houston's short miss on the baseline not withstanding; Houston ended up 0-5 and was never the same after that, Renee Montgomery was 6-16, and Ann Strother was 1-6. Still, UConn shot 40% and should have won that game.
To be fair, Coach Goestenkors was two Lindsey Harding missed free throws away from getting to a fourth Final Four.

If Duke was going to consider buying out Coach McCallie's contract, the time to do it was after losing as a #2 seed to 7th seeded DePaul in last year's tournament, a game Duke lost despite outshooting and outrebounding DePaul. Duke, in fact, has actually played increasingly better in their last three NCAA losses if that makes any sense; Losses neverthess.
 
VAU...actually, Goestenkors did make four Final Fours, but the fourth appearance was outside the seven-year comparison window I was using.

Duke has had more top five players and top ten and more All Americans (high school) under McCallie than Goestenkors. But she has not coached them up or worked with them to improve individual skillsets the way her predecessor did.
 
VAUConnFan said:
CamrnCrz1974 makes outstanding points. But is a comparison to one's predecessor a valid criteria for an early contract buyout? How, then, is anyone going to survive at UConn once Coach Auriemma leaves?

It is fair to say that the Duke women's program was never better than they were in Coach Goestenkors' last seven seasons. It is also fair to say that if a good team was going to beat UConn, their best chances were between 2005-2007 inclusive.

Coach McCallie has never coached a Wade Trophy caliber player that could take over big games. She has had good players and good teams and it is naturally fair to question whether another coach could have done better.

Coach Goestenkors, by rights, should be 0-4 against UConn. Duke won the 2004 game in Connecticut on a last second three when UConn, inexplicably, did not pressure the ball after Taurasi banked in the floater from the right side to put them up with less than ten seconds remaining. Duke won the Elite 8 game in Bridgeport despite shooting 29%. How in the world is UConn supposed to lose a game when they hold an opponent under 30%, Charde Houston's short miss on the baseline not withstanding; Houston ended up 0-5 and was never the same after that, Renee Montgomery was 6-16, and Ann Strother was 1-6. Still, UConn shot 40% and should have won that game.
To be fair, Coach Goestenkors was two Lindsey Harding missed free throws away from getting to a fourth Final Four.

If Duke was going to consider buying out Coach McCallie's contract, the time to do it was after losing as a #2 seed to 7th seeded DePaul in last year's tournament, a game Duke lost despite outshooting and outrebounding DePaul. Duke, in fact, has actually played increasingly better in their last three NCAA losses if that makes any sense; Losses neverthess.
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The difference is, Duke was never close to the level of dominance that UCONN has found under Geno. Under Gail, they were a consistent Final Four favorite and a title threat most years, even if Gail couldn't bring home the title. She did a great job recruiting and put together some very strong teams. Outside of Tennessee/UCONN, Duke was easily the strongest team in WCBB from 1999-2007. Duke was dominant and a scary team to face in March. It was a surprise in 2007, 2004 and 2001 when they were upset in the regional and didn't play in the Final Four.

Gail left Duke in a great position. The came off a 32-2 season, had an outstanding player in Waner returning (she was phenomenal as a sophomore), Chante Black was set to return after a year off, 2 top 10 kids were coming in, and the rest of the lineup was littered with McDonald's All-Americans. Since then, Coach P has done an outstanding job recruiting, but has never made Duke into a Final Four favorite or championship threat like Gail did. After several seasons of Final Four appearances and near championships, Duke has consistently under performed throughout the regular season and post season. Even when they've won against ranked teams, it has never been impressive to watch. They had a Wade Trophy caliber player in Elizabeth Williams, who was outstanding as a freshman and hasn't developed. Chelsea Gray is another player who could have won multiple 1st Team All-American awards had she stayed healthy. Waner looked like she had the ability to develop into a perennial All American under Coach G. Jasmine Thomas was an incredibly athletic and talented player who has since started in the WNBA Finals. They have had the horses and talent to at least make the Final Four.

They've had plausible reasons for their inability to make the Final Four, but Duke has never surprised anybody or pulled off an upset. Every game they are expected to lose, they lose. Games they are expected to win they usually win, and sometimes lose. Under Gail they:
-pulled off one of the biggest upsets in NCAA history when they gave Chamique Holdsclaw her only NCAA tournament loss
-Beat UCONN in Storrs in 2004 ending UCONN's home winning streak
-Slaughtered Tennessee in 2003 and 2006
-Beat them again in 2005 and 2007, both times in TBA. Tennessee went on to win the title in 2007 and made the Final Four in 05
-Beat UCONN in Connecticut during the NCAA tournament. Not sure anyone else has accomplished this
-Slaughtered LSU in 2006 when LSU had Fowles and Augustus
-Thumped eventual title runner up Rutgers by 40 in 2007

All of these are examples of wins that are superior to Coach P's most impressive victory. Tennessee's stellar 2008 graduating class went 0-3 against Goestenkors. Under P, Duke is consistently good, but not great, which is under performing considering how much talent Duke has assimilated every year and how solid of a position Gail Goestenkors left Duke in.
 
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Nice remarks by Cam and VAUConn fan!

Duke's record against the top teams is the biggest problem to me.

Yes, JPM's Michigan State beat UConn, but so did Rutgers, ASU, ND, and Tennessee. Plus USF took us to OT. It was, frankly, the weakest UConn team in 2 decades.

Courtney Banghart at Duke almost scares me. The university has lots of recruiting advantages. I think she can make Duke into UConn's primary competition. I think they can surpass ND.
 
VAUConnFan said:
If Duke was going to consider buying out Coach McCallie's contract, the time to do it was after losing as a #2 seed to 7th seeded DePaul in last year's tournament, a game Duke lost despite outshooting and outrebounding DePaul. Duke, in fact, has actually played increasingly better in their last three NCAA losses if that makes any sense; Losses neverthess.
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No way they would fire McCallie after that loss ... Duke was down 2 all-american type PG's..... plus a senior backup PG......
 
It has become increasingly clear that Joanne significantly under-develops the fine talent that she recruits.
And is a public relations nightmare with her inane post-game comments and her striking inability
to accept any responsibility for adversity.

She has become an embarrassment to a splendid University and it is not surprising that they are looking to the exits (if indeed they are).
 
And if indeed they are not then indeed they damned well should be!
 
j66kicker said:
Hello!! You play to win the game!
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Sometimes, Herm is crazy intense, but as an Eagles fan, I still like him. Any Giants' fans remember the "Miracle of the Meadowlands" play involving Herm, Pisarcek, and Csonka? I think it's probably known as something else in New York. Everytime you see a QB take a knee to run out the clock, THAT play is the reason. :)
 
BlueDevils said:
YOU HAVE TO! I can't stress that enough. Key for player confidence.
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The example I referred to is him telling how he dealt with criticism he'd give to players in practices. He said he'd always give them praise (I misquoted him) after criticism. He said "after all it was a game" and he wanted them to enjoy coming to practice.
Bill Walton said he didn't say anything after games and I don't remember them showing any post game conferences although I watched a lot of their games on TV. I was very young then though.
 
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