DT sounds off on the W | Page 3 | The Boneyard

DT sounds off on the W

eebmg said:
Time for the players to refuse their salaries, pray for forgiveness at their egocentric ways and pay out of their pocket for the privelage of playing to the team owners and dont forget that the players should also pay the fans to come to their games.
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Maybe just the second one.
 
FWIW: I've been out for a late lunch several weekends this Summer. There's been a men's basketball game on the TV. I guess it's a "feeder league" but, candidly, it appears to be a much lower level of "game". Surprisingly, there seem to be a good number of filled seats.
My queston: Why is the NBA counter-programming against the WNBA and what kind of advertising dollars are supporting this "filler" content?
 
It’s strange how Dee played in Russia all those years and seems to have zero idea how she ended up straight paid by those two oligarchs, or even how the top of the Russian economy works.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
There is no profit motive or effort in European women's basketball. They have far worse attendance at most games. There are corporate and government sponsors who burnish their images with these teams. Europe offers no economic model.
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If they offer "no economic model," why are all of the best American players playing in Europe? And why are American players taking off the summer and the WNBA, but making certain that they play their European seasons? Seems to me that the simple facts suggest that the European teams are doing something right, while the WNBA is the one in trouble.
 
Fairfield Fan said:
If they offer "no economic model," why are all of the best American players playing in Europe?
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The money the players are paid is not generated by operations. Large government, corporate and mogul infusions of $ balance the budget. Some teams are subsidized with revenue from hugely profitable associated men's football(soccer) teams. So "the simple facts" say we are comparing apples and oranges to no purpose. The Euroleague in which the US stars play have average attendance well below the WNBA and a large number of tickets are given away. The quarterfinals last March had 3 games with 1500 in attendance and one at 4500 (UMMC v. TTTRiga).
 
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Someone please help me understand this.

The list of countries where women's players are (apparently) making more money than in the WNBA is long: China, Russia, Turkey, Israel, South Korea, Poland, Italy, Australia, Spain...

WNBA Players Playing Overseas - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

After the WNBA season, many players across the league head overseas to continue playing. Take a look at where around the world they will be competing below. Overseas Hubs: Atlanta | Chicago | Connecticut | Dallas | Los Angeles | Minnesota | New York | Seattle Players Playing Overseas WNBA Team...
www.wnba.com www.wnba.com

Are ALL of these countries, leagues and clubs bucking the principles of profitability with infusions of "large government, corporate and mogul infusions of $" just to pay women more than market value?

This is clearly more than just a couple Russian oligarchs feeding their egos.
 
Plebe said:
Are ALL of these countries, leagues and clubs bucking the principles of profitability with infusions of "large government, corporate and mogul infusions of $" just to pay women more than market value?
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YES. That simple. But there are a lot of club teams who cannot spend big bucks. Euroleague top tier where WNBA players play has just 16 teams and not all of them pay the big bucks of UMMC or Dynamo Kursk. Some WNBAers play in leagues making far less than you hear about in the top tier teams of Euroleague.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
YES. That simple. But there are a lot of club teams who cannot spend big bucks. Euroleague top tier where WNBA players play has just 16 teams and not all of them pay the big bucks of UMMC or Dynamo Kursk. Some WNBAers play in leagues making far less than you hear about in the top tier teams of Euroleague.
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I just don't understand why so many parties are willing to take hits to support an unprofitable system.
 
Plebe said:
I just don't understand why so many parties are willing to take hits to support an unprofitable system.
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There isn't any one reason of course. For China it was a matter of state interest in successfully projecting the policies of authoritarianism into the international sports arena, the most dramatic push being for Olympic gold. The last decade has seen a shift in China toward encouraging private market forces. Europe is a mixed bag, but Eastern Europe was aclimated to statism for generations and now Western Europe is more socialist than anything else, with the EU regulating the number of plies in you toilet paper and the amount of water in your flush.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
There isn't any one reason of course. For China it was a matter of state interest in successfully projecting the policies of authoritarianism into the international sports arena, the most dramatic push being for Olympic gold. The last decade has seen a shift in China toward encouraging private market forces. Europe is a mixed bag, but Eastern Europe was aclimated to statism for generations and now Western Europe is more socialist than anything else, with the EU regulating the number of plies in you toilet paper and the amount of water in your flush.
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To add, in Russia it’s not so much seen as an investment in the sport but as an investment in their factory workforce. They don’t sell many tickets at all, most are comped to underpaid workers for entertainment. Most of the crowd is there for free. The men in charge of the big Russian teams are financially and politically corrupt, so a couple million is nothing to them. Besides, there’s always rumors about them needing to get dirty money clean. ;)
 
Perhaps the answer is to have the government subsidize the league with taxpayer monies. That would be fair. Think of it as reparations for having been born female. :rolleyes:

It's a BUSINESS not a social experiment! If the product you are selling is so inferior that there is little demand and no profit, where is the money going to come from? Maybe Oprah?
 
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I don't pretend to have all the answers, but one obvious step, as mentioned by @bballnut90 , would be to raise or even abolish the salary cap. What purpose does the cap serve in the WNBA? If the answer is parity, that's a really lame answer.
 
Plebe said:
Someone please help me understand this.

The list of countries where women's players are (apparently) making more money than in the WNBA is long: China, Russia, Turkey, Israel, South Korea, Poland, Italy, Australia, Spain...

WNBA Players Playing Overseas - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

After the WNBA season, many players across the league head overseas to continue playing. Take a look at where around the world they will be competing below. Overseas Hubs: Atlanta | Chicago | Connecticut | Dallas | Los Angeles | Minnesota | New York | Seattle Players Playing Overseas WNBA Team...
www.wnba.com www.wnba.com

Are ALL of these countries, leagues and clubs bucking the principles of profitability with infusions of "large government, corporate and mogul infusions of $" just to pay women more than market value?

This is clearly more than just a couple Russian oligarchs feeding their egos.
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Exactly. There are women's teams from Israel to Russia to Shaanxi, China. And that list shows that almost all of the WNBA players play overseas- between 8-11 players per team. And let's keep in mind that if their overseas seasons overlap with the WNBA, these American players make sure to play out their contracts overseas before mozzying on back to the W.

Hard to believe that it's just a couple of oligarchs who are propping up an unprofitable pro system. Too many teams are attracting too many top American players- and mid-ranking players- and their checks don't seem to be bouncing.
 
So you pay the team stars/vets more? Where would the money come from. If most of the teams are in the red, how does paying top players more work? Maybe paying the other players even chumpier change than they are getting now? Maybe the real answer is for the W to switch to 3 on 3 basketball. ;)

Can anyone name a women's professional team sport that was/is a money maker?
 
vtcwbuff said:
Perhaps the answer is to have the government subsidize the league with taxpayer monies. That would be fair. Think of it as reparations for having been born female. :rolleyes:

It's a BUSINESS not a social experiment! If the product you are selling is so inferior that there is little demand and no profit, where is the money going to come from? Maybe Oprah?
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I’d rather my tax dollars go to subsidizing the WNBA (amongst many other worthy recipients of my cashola) than to subsidizing big banks, big pharma, Wall Street, and the ilk.
 
Fairfield Fan said:
Hard to believe that it's just a couple of oligarchs who are propping up an unprofitable pro system. Too many teams are attracting too many top American players- and mid-ranking players- and their checks don't seem to be bouncing.
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And yet...

As @RockyMTblue2 said, it’s apples and oranges. It’s not the same business model as American sports.
 
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vtcwbuff said:
So you pay the team stars/vets more? Where would the money come from. If most of the teams are in the red, how does paying top players more work? Maybe paying the other players even chumpier change than they are getting now? Maybe the real answer is for the W to switch to 3 on 3 basketball. ;)

Can anyone name a women's professional team sport that was/is a money maker?
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Yes, the USA women's national soccer team. Making millions!!! Documented!
 
Fairfield Fan said:
Exactly. There are women's teams from Israel to Russia to Shaanxi, China. And that list shows that almost all of the WNBA players play overseas- between 8-11 players per team. And let's keep in mind that if their overseas seasons overlap with the WNBA, these American players make sure to play out their contracts overseas before mozzying on back to the W.

Hard to believe that it's just a couple of oligarchs who are propping up an unprofitable pro system. Too many teams are attracting too many top American players- and mid-ranking players- and their checks don't seem to be bouncing.
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Never-the-less. I have seen several television programs over the years where this has been discussed. It isn't (really) about the WBB teams, as someone said, it is the football. And sometimes the hockey. Maybe the men's basketball. Its for the pride of your company, or your town, or just to show your power. Or your team versus your rival, who may be from another country even. Sometimes, like in China as someone described, its political. And its good for the native players to be learning from the Americans. Incidentally, I don't think that the non-American players make the salaries of the Americans - who are generally limited to 2 per team, I believe, unless they can convince you to take a dual citizenship as some have.

Its complicated, but yes, in large part - and this is very well documented and continually denying it doesn't make it false - the WBB teams do not make money in Europe, and are not based on a cash profit model. It really is that simple. So unless you both get rid of the salary cap and convince someone that it is worth dumping money into the team to demonstrate superiority of LA or Seattle or where-ever to the rest of the WBB-verse, it will not be happening here.
 
Shenandoah said:
Geno only uses 6 or at the most, 7. He's done "okay" with it!
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Please discontinue the repetition of this MYTH!!! Geno has done that in the last few years because that is as deep as his bench went, in terms of players who could play at approximately the level of the starters against tough competition. But when he has more talent available, more people will play. He showed that when he coached the Olympic teams, and also back in the days when he really did have nearly a bench full of all-Americans. Go back and look at 2000 and 2001, where he had nine players who could perform, and he played them all.
 
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