DT sounds off on the W

[Plebe]

Phoenix Mercury's Diana Taurasi: 'WNBA finds a way to mess it up'

"And it's just shocking to me, as we have the NBA as the best model ever. But the WNBA always finds a way to mess it up. I just don't get it. I'm so disillusioned with it all ... not because of what I had to go through, but for the younger kids. When you're in it, when you're playing and you're young, you don't worry about these things. You're just so worried about proving yourself and getting to the playoffs, being a better basketball player."

 

[nwhoopfan]

"Bottom line. They can talk about housing. They can talk about per diem. We won't have to talk about that stuff if you just paid us more money. And where does that money come from? I don't know. That's their job to figure out."


Well that's the real trick, isn't it D? Pay the players more money, but the league isn't making money. Where is it supposed to come from?

 

[eebmg]

I am probably on the higher end of supporting the WNBA and wanting it to succeed but what is the point of DT voicing general frustration and anger while ignoring market issues that will not just disappear.

Taurasi: Something's missing. I don't know. I don't know what the solution is. But what's going on now, it's not working.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

While I understand the frustrations and sympathize to a degree , I suspect that if the pay scale was trebled the grousing and issues would remain. D talks the NBA near the end of the article:

"They've made rock stars out of these players. And we just have not been able to capitalize on any of that. Not even a little bit. Not even one bit. Like, are you kidding me with some of the stuff that they do marketing and promoting-wise? It's almost mind-boggling. "

Well, guess what, it is men's basketball and a whole 'nuther thing AND that is what people want to watch. The WNBA's attendance and viewership has leveled off and I strongly doubt a big advertising push would change that much. Meanwhile the unrelenting focus on the issue may be a bit of a Debbie Downer.

As D says: she has none of the answers.

 

[msf22b]

I can't imagine that many of the Euro teams make money, some of the crowds look even smaller than the W...yet they pay their talent at least adequately, sometimes handsomely.

Teams are owned (as here) by super rich individuals...There, they choose to pay the players adequately...here not.

Coming from the classical music biz, there were always managers who had the attitude that the talent should (almost) pay them in order to thank them for giving them a platform to shine ...seems like the collective viewpoint of the W.

It's just the prevailing sentiment of current W ownership...and a maverick who took a more generous view would be severally pressured by his colleagues to desist. ...Would be interesting if such an owner came forward; all the best players would flock to him...perhaps change the situ of the game.

But comparing salaries to current attendance and acceptance is a "red herring': and is not a real world explanation for the problem.

Just typical American greed and willingness to exploit talent. not a whole lot different from coal miners and automobile laborers.

 

[Sifaka]

I spent decades doing industrial product development and marketing, so take me with a grain (lump?) of salt when it comes to consumer mktng. That said, the W has too many empty seats. Fill them! Free admission to middle school and high school kids, accompanied by one paying adult. Build a fan base fer cryin out loud.
It is not a quick fix, but might be an enduring one.

What is the incremental cost to owners? Zeeeero! They will make a little on concessions.

Give free season passes to class valedictorians. Make some positive noise to let
youngsters know the W exists. Incremental costs. An asymptote to nil.

 

[the Q]

I can't imagine that many of the Euro teams make money, some of the crowds look even smaller than the W...yet they pay their talent at least adequately, sometimes handsomely.

Teams are owned (as here) by super rich individuals...There, they choose to pay the players adequately...here not.

Coming from the classical music biz, there were always managers who had the attitude that the talent should (almost) pay them in order to thank them for giving them a platform to shine ...seems like the collective viewpoint of the W.

It's just the prevailing sentiment of current W ownership...and a maverick who took a more generous view would be severally pressured by his colleagues to desist. ...Would be interesting if such an owner came forward; all the best players would flock to him...perhaps change the situ of the game.

But comparing salaries to current attendance and acceptance is a "red herring': and is not a real world explanation for the problem.

Just typical American greed and willingness to exploit talent. not a whole lot different from coal minors and automobile laborers.

Many are owned by corporations and they use tnfor marketing. Owning a success sports team is a valuable marketing tool in those cultures

 

[trisailin]

Actually I get part of the lack of following for the WNBA. The "poobahs" have spent the last umpteen years promoting everything except "the product". Go to the WNBA website and they spend it talking about fashion of the players, what their favorite food might be, some "humanitarian" involvement in some community and anything else other than the quality of the game. Even the ESPN broadcasts spend half their time talking about player x is friends with player y. Again, anything other than the quality of the product on the court.
There is a reason many of us watch the game - we like the way it's played. It is fundamentally different than mens' ball. Promote that.

 

[EricLA]

Actually I get part of the lack of following for the WNBA. The "poobahs" have spent the last umpteen years promoting everything except "the product". Go to the WNBA website and they spend it talking about fashion of the players, what their favorite food might be, some "humanitarian" involvement in some community and anything else other than the quality of the game. Even the ESPN broadcasts spend half their time talking about player x is friends with player y. Again, anything other than the quality of the product on the court.
There is a reason many of us watch the game - we like the way it's played. It is fundamentally different than mens' ball. Promote that.

I think they promote all kinds of stuff. "Watch me work" was the big video promo at the start of the season. It featured vignettes of super stars showing off moves on the court. I thought it was well done. Would you consider that "promoting everything except the product"?

In fairness, as just a "basketball product", since its' inception, the league has barely made it. I don't blame them for trying anything and everything. I saw some people whining on the FB page about how the uniforms have more advertisitng than team names. For a league struggling to stay afloat, I don't blame them for promoting LifeLock and every other advertiser who wants to give $.

Bottom line is that it's all about the $$. The WNBA doesn't charge a ton for seats, gives away tons of free seats to fill stadiums, and simply doesn't make nearly enough $$. If the players are that concerned about the pay scale, then get an independent forensic accountant to go thru the WNBA records to show just how much the league makes.

The league should have no issue with that, if they have nothing to hide, and the players should have no issue since it will either promote or refute their arguments about pay.

I have no problem with her advocating for more $ for players, etc, but if the funds aren't there, how are players supposed to get paid?

Women's grand slam tennis tourneys pay the same as men (the big 4) for the most part. Maybe a few pay a bit less, but it's millions for the winners. And that's because women's tennis is close to as popular as men's tennis. It just doesn't work that way for other sports, especially the WNBA.

 

[hoopsfan22]

People don't want to watch players that are slow and can't dunk, and the WNBA will always be seen as the inferior product to the NBA just like when I watch minor league baseball games I know it's not going to be as good as MLB.

 

[Monte]

Sometimes, you just have to go where the money is.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

D points out that for years she and other American stars have made real money over in Europe and Russia. Commenters here continue to claim that those European teams aren't making money. But year after year after year, those leagues pay big money, continue to play. And those leagues have not disappeared.

Perhaps the WNBA is doing it wrong. Perhaps the WNBA needs to take a lesson from Europe.

The WNBA simply cannot pay an All-American star less than it does a janitor. D's right: something's wrong here.

 

[CTrefugee]

Pampered people leading a charmed life. They have never had to learn basic economics.
I love D as a player, but she is out of her depth on this.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I spent decades doing industrial product development and marketing, so take me with a grain (lump?) of salt when it comes to consumer mktng. That said, the W has too many empty seats. Fill them! Free admission to middle school and high school kids, accompanied by one paying adult. Build a fan base fer cryin out loud.
It is not a quick fix, but might be an enduring one.

What is the incremental cost to owners? Zeeeero! They will make a little on concessions.

Give free season passes to class valedictorians. Make some positive noise to let
youngsters know the W exists. Incremental costs. An asymptote to nil.

Huge assumption that offering free admission to kids would "fill the seats."

 

[RockyMTblue2]

D points out that for years she and other American stars have made real money over in Europe and Russia. Commenters here continue to claim that those European teams aren't making money. But year after year after year, those leagues pay big money, continue to play. And those leagues have not disappeared.

Perhaps the WNBA is doing it wrong. Perhaps the WNBA needs to take a lesson from Europe.

The WNBA simply cannot pay an All-American star less than it does a janitor. D's right: something's wrong here.

There is no profit motive or effort in European women's basketball. They have far worse attendance at most games. There are corporate and government sponsors who burnish their images with these teams. Europe offers no economic model.

 

[brownale]

Maybe it would help if a wealthy woman (Oprah, etc.) would step up and buy an WNBA team and pay the required salaries to lead the way.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The WNBA simply cannot pay an All-American star less than it does a janitor. D's right: something's wrong here.

That part had to be hyperbole. I flat out dismissed it.

 

[bluedevil]

An NBA season with exhibition games and playoffs is 100 games..A WBA season with playoffs is what maybe 35 or 40....That might be part just part of the problem...

 

[SVCBeercats]

Just typical American greed and willingness to exploit talent. not a whole lot different from coal minors and automobile laborers.

The typical American greed is the players' desire for big bucks without producing the results. They have to face the facts after 30 years there is no big audience for the WNBA. Same work same pay is the cry. Try same results same pay. Do it the old fashion way ... earn it! By the way if you are comparing talent between the NBA and the WNBA it is a losing proposition. The women's game is just not good enough to attract the younger (18-34) crowd where the big advertising dollars are. The men are fun to watch for the younger crowd who want to be amazed by athletic feats and flash Cadillac Phi Slamma Jamma play. They care less about teamwork and precision. The San Antonio Spurs get disrespected because they play a team game without flash bang. There is no real marketable talent to be exploited. Greed? Who makes a profit in the WNBA? Occasionally 1 or 2 teams maybe. The economics just don't work. I've always said there are sympathetic moneyed people who should own all of the WNBA teams and the league as a whole and pay the players like they get paid overseas. Drop the association with the NBA. NBA owners are business people who expect a profit. They are not a charity. Average attendance in 2018 was 6,721.

WNBA Attendance

 

[HuskylnSC]

Sacrilege Alert!!! Do not read if you value your traditional views.

A few years ago I read of a double edged test. Someone, and I forget who, that the average woman was 8 inches shorter than the average man. So they ran a basketball test. They lowered the hoop 8 inches for a women's game. Voila! They were running and dunking. Then they raised the hoop 8 inches for a men's game. Strange, it began to look like the current women's game. If dunking and alley oops are what the fans want to see, give them what they want to see. Lower the rim by 8 inches and make it happen. BTW, I screamed when MLB lowered the mound, created the DH and took away the hard slide. But they have no trouble paying their players.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Maybe it would help if a wealthy woman (Oprah, etc.) would step up and buy an WNBA team and pay the required salaries to lead the way.

I was thinking Mark Cuban would be the best individual for that job. He could just roll some of his NBA profits into the WNBA as a humanitarian effort.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Then they raised the hoop 8 inches for a men's game. Strange, it began to look like the current women's game.

Mmm...I'm not buying it. I was at a Blazers exhibition event years ago, they had a dunk contest where they kept raising the rim. It was Clyde Drexler, probably Jerome Kersey, can't remember who else. I think they got up to close to 12'. Most NBA dudes are still gonna be dunking if the rim is 8" higher. Some of them are damn near hitting their head on the rim currently and can get their elbow at rim level. They've got plenty to spare.

 

[Woof 101]

But comparing salaries to current attendance and acceptance is a "red herring': and is not a real world explanation for the problem.

No spitting match here at all but this could not be more wrong... Just say'n.
I love the women's game, college and pro. I also understand supply and demand. Mom asked me decades ago when salaries started to escalate in baseball. "Son how can baseball players be getting paid so much?"
My reply was (to a poor woman) how much would you pay to see Liberace or Sinatra? Her reply was like the price would not matter! I had to explain that was what baseball fans were willing to pay.

I still wish professional softball would have made it but I realize I am the small number of supply and demand.
No rocket science here, nor should players with college degrees be surprised by it is what it is.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Mmm...I'm not buying it. I was at a Blazers exhibition event years ago, they had a dunk contest where they kept raising the rim. It was Clyde Drexler, probably Jerome Kersey, can't remember who else. I think they got up to close to 12'. Most NBA dudes are still gonna be dunking if the rim is 8" higher. Some of them are damn near hitting their head on the rim currently and can get their elbow at rim level. They've got plenty to spare.

I don't remember who the male players were, but I don't think any were NBA quality. They tried to get a few but they were all meeting with their wealth management advisors

 

[nwhoopfan]

I don't remember who the male players were, but I don't think any were NBA quality. They tried to get a few but they were all meeting with their wealth management advisors

Ha. Well if you raised the rim 8" I couldn't dunk...but I can't dunk at the current 10' height either.