Do we (WBB fans) assess male and female WBB head coaches equally?

[bballnut90]

Hi all, a random observation/question that I'd be curious for your collective wisdom about:

I noticed tonight in the Baylor-Texas thread some (not unreasonable) roasting of Karen Aston's coaching ability, and it got me to thinking: do we assess male and female WBB head coaches in the same way? The reason I ask is that the coaches I regularly see roasted for poor coaching abilities are almost always female. In particular, this is a repeated trope applied to Aston, Holly Warlick, Cori Close, and Lindsay Gottlieb, off the top of my head, and in almost every game thread featuring those teams, both on this board and on others. By contrast, I can't really think of a single male WBB head coach that regularly receives as much scorn. Maybe that's on the merits, but it does strike me as a little odd, given that at the top of the heap, there's roughly gender parity among the best coaches (e.g., Geno, Waltz, Rueck, Graves, Schaefer vs. Pat, Tara, MM, Mulkey, CTT, Hatchell), and yet outside the truly elite, female head coaches seem (impressionistically, at least) to be singled out much more than men. And this despite the fact that all four of the female head coaches I've just mentioned - Aston, Warlick, Close, and Gottlieb - regularly seem to get their teams into the Top 25 in the country.

So: Respectfully, am I wrong in perceiving this? If not, is there a legitimate basis for the disproportionate scorn that seems to be directed toward female coaches?

The reason why Aston/Warlick/McCallie receive negative attention is that they assemble really talented rosters that play horrible basketball. People were very harsh on McGuff accomplishing next to nothing despite having a loaded roster the last few years too. If we saw more men landing top kids and wasting their talents, they'd be just as scrutinized IMO.

In terms of individual coaches that get roasted:
Muffet-no one questions her ability to coach, she's an incredible coach. People dislike comments she makes and her being a sore loser (which she's admitted to herself), but I think the worst thing people say about her is, "Geno is a better coach." If a man made the comments Muffet makes, I think it'd fuel the same fire.

Kim Mulkey-people also by and large agree that she's a very good coach. Her teams consistently flop in the post season, and for that she gets criticized more than anything else. If a man coached her teams with the same results, I think the feedback would be the same. Her dramatic on court antics (throwing her jacket) and particularly colorful outfits also are talked about, although much of it is done as a playful jab rather than anything malicious or detrimental IMO.

Dawn Staley-a lot of people do not respect her abilities as a coach compared to some others but everyone agrees shes in the upper group of coaches. The biggest knock on Dawn is her inability to run a strong offensive system. A lot of people also feel that her 2017 title team should have an asterisk next to it because she didn't have to face her kryptonite in UCONN. If her team comes into Storrs next week and beats the Huskies, she'll get a lot more respect from UCONN fans IMO.

Jeff Walz-I think people are critical about him. He has a brash attitude and isn't afraid to call something out which can be off putting, but he's never criticized Geno or had anything negative to say about the Huskies. People will acknowledge that he has up and down seasons, but lately he's built Louisville into a powerhouse which commands respect. People call out when he underachieves.

Brenda Frese-this is an example where I think sexism might be a factor. Brenda by all accounts is a fantastic coach. 3 Final Fours, a National Title and her teams are consistently very good. Some years they underachieve, other years they overachieve. People for whatever reason don't like to give her the credit and respect she deserves. I think she's absolutely in the upper echelon of coaches and it's extremely unfair for people to credit the 2006 title to Jeff Walz calling 1 play where she assembled the team and lead a team with 4 underclassmen starting to a title.

Most of the successful male coaches are relative newbies in the women's basketball world. Schaefer, Graves, Rueck and Moore don't have a long coaching history and they've put together successful teams. None of them have made inflammatory comments or have particularly off putting personalities or antics.

There are also a few of "Geno's friends" (men and women) who seem to get more of a pass on this board. None of these coaches have ever proven that they can compete with, let alone beat Geno, so they aren't threatening. These include Doug Bruno, Harry Perretta, and Sherri Coale. Bruno and Perretta have been main stays as coaches for okay to decent teams, Coale was more successful than either earlier this decade but her teams have underachieved the past 8-9 years. Overall I don't think sexism is a factor as much as people will give Geno's friends the benefit of the doubt.

I think sexism definitely exists in sports in general and in many other women's sports (definitely in volleyball), but in many ways women's basketball leads the way by having many high profile and highly respected female coaches.

 

[hussybulldog]

If UConn does not win the tournament this year, in order to be PC, I propose we all join in bashing Geno. Since he has three No.1 recruits out of high school on this team and does not win it all, has there been any female coach has had a bigger failure so far?

 

[MSUFan2003]

As often is the case, the simplest answer is often to most accurate. If the question relates to the Boneyard, we typically invest our negative thoughts in our top rivals-ND now, Tenn in past, Texas since they "stole" a recruit. When you go on the ND board, Geno is a primary target. Exceptions exist, but don't see any real trends. Not a sexist issue but one related to who we "hate" at the time.

This is basically it. I would also add that the coaches getting criticized are usually the ones that have attained some level of relevance on the national stage. No one is going to spend time criticizing the coach of Tech Community College.

 

[hussybulldog]

People do have different priorities and responsibilities in their lives. So I think even if we do rid of the sexism in general, we will still see the disparity.i just went to check out some info at fide.com, there is only one women chess player currently ranked in the top 100 chess player. (And she is definitely an anomaly, being ranked high there and at the same time treating the sport as a hobby rather than a profession, finishing up college and currently a Rhode scholar. Without her and Judit Polgar before her being just simply extraordinary, we might not having had a single one female Chess player ranked on top 100.) My point is that, we can’t just throw in a bunch of stats and classify it into sexism and inequality ...

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Gag. It's a trick question gang! Chevy did not make the 4 barrel 327 until 1963 and it was in the Corvette .... however, the correct ignition timing was 4 degrees before top dead center.

And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with the 4-barrel carburetor til '64.

HOWEVER...

In 1964, the correct ignition timing would be 4 degrees before top dead center.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with the 4-barrel carburetor til '64.

HOWEVER...

In 1964, the correct ignition timing would be 4 degrees before top dead center.

Okay, okay, I was going from memory and my desire for a Corvette - that was the posi-traction part of Marisa's delicious soliloquy . And there is no way a 1964 tempest can be confused with a corvette!

You're right. Give that man some grits!



What, now you're going to tell me it was a 1963 Pontiac!!!

 

[Millenial23]

Wow, that's a big ball of wax @jonson ! I have not payed close enough attention to the difference in dynamics between baseball and softball. One sport where I believe women's generates more fan interest and media attention, and I also think larger salaries for coaches, is volleyball. Male coaches have left men's volleyball to coach women's volleyball. Not sure that occurs in any other sport.

Also rowing apparently is better paid for coaches on the women's side. I've heard from someone married to a rowing coach or assistant coach or such. Apparently the equipment is so expensive - the boats and whatnot - that universities can easily pour tons of money to women's rowing and fulfill title 9 requirements of spending as much on women's sports as on men's sports. But I guess that's slightly off topic for this thread.