Do Teams Need to Carry More Players?

[Charliebball]

The inordinate number of injuries, the increased number of transfers..................is it time for teams to recruit more players to ensure against a short bench during the course of a season?

Here's what one obviously exasperated coach sarcastically had to say:

 

[Shorty Dee]

The inordinate number of injuries, the increased number of transfers...is it time for teams to recruit more players to ensure against a short bench during the course of a season?

Here's what one obviously exasperated coach sarcastically had to say:

[/QUOTE
What is going on with De'Janae? Why is she transferring from Penn State?

 

[Dillon77]

It's an interesting question, one of which we've chimed in before.

On one hand, some teams don't have that big a rotation and can get by without the extra players, but what happens if there are injuries or transfers. Also the burnout factor -- not just games, but practices take injuries.

And some folks argue that if recruiting is an inexact science to begin with and what happens if you get too many players? That leads to less PT, unhappy players and more transfers.

Out in South Bend, MM currently has a roster of 12 players, 11 of whom are on scholarship (walk on Kaitlin Cole is out for the year). McGraw is on record as having said she prefers using 12 as an optimum roster size.

Right now, if the 2019-2020 season were to start, the Irish would have 9 scholarship players (7 returnees, two verbal commits) and Ms. Cole returning from injury. Depending on what happens in Mid-November, Coach McGraw might get two more commits. Then again, she might get one or none. If the last sentence occurs, that will be a very thin and trim roster to start a season with, for sure. As a result, I think that will make for a very aggressive 2020 recruiting season..as if they're not aggressive enough now .

 

[j66kicker]

Wouldn’t carrying more players just lead to more PT dissatisfaction and more transfers?

 

[CocoHusky]

Yes coaches (including UCONN and ND) should increase the roster sizes. Injuries are unfortunate but there is tons of available data that make practical planning for injuries possible. The NCAA and the Universities should take a serious look at the scholarship limit and make the required adjustments. It been a while since I look at the numbers but within the SEC (14 Teams) during A'Ja Wilson time there 2014-2018 (4 seasons) only 5 of a possible 56 teams ever had a roster size that was at 14 or more. So if the coaches are not going to utilize the roster slots then the universities should make those scholarship available to other women's sports.
Lastly part of the long term solution maybe for WCBB to subdivide similar to what college football has done.
This would not prevent the "occasional" scheduling of Mid-major or upsets as we seen over the last couple of days but surely it would prevent UCONN vs. St. Francis come tournament time. BTW Mike Carey @West Virginia has no business playing Coppin State. Brenda @Maryland doesn't need to play MD Eastern Shore and Mississippi State didn't need to play that abomination of an OCC schedule that it did last year.

 

[Charliebball]

Wouldn’t carrying more players just lead to more PT dissatisfaction and more transfers?

you would think it might but I would hope a coach would be able to simply play more players instead of sticking to a set 6-7 woman rotation, if the bench players were good enough.............

 

[CocoHusky]

Wouldn’t carrying more players just lead to more PT dissatisfaction and more transfers?

Not really. Players have to have slots to transfer into. Full rosters means no available slots to transfer into=I'm better off staying where I am because at least I have a slot.

 

[BroadwayVa]

It's an interesting question, one of which we've chimed in before.

On one hand, some teams don't have that big a rotation and can get by without the extra players, but what happens if there are injuries or transfers. Also the burnout factor -- not just games, but practices take injuries.

And some folks argue that if recruiting is an inexact science to begin with and what happens if you get too many players? That leads to less PT, unhappy players and more transfers.

Out in South Bend, MM currently has a roster of 12 players, 11 of whom are on scholarship (walk on Kaitlin Cole is out for the year). McGraw is on record as having said she prefers using 12 as an optimum roster size.

Right now, if the 2019-2020 season were to start, the Irish would have 9 scholarship players (7 returnees, two verbal commits) and Ms. Cole returning from injury. Depending on what happens in Mid-November, Coach McGraw might get two more commits. Then again, she might get one or none. If the last sentence occurs, that will be a very thin and trim roster to start a season with, for sure. As a result, I think that will make for a very aggressive 2020 recruiting season..as if they're not aggressive enough now .

Para 2 and 3. Recruiting is not exact--(science?) Injuries occur in practice very true. My concern is there are too many reps on bodies especially knees/legs/hips. As an old fart I know that many, if not all, the injuries I had minor or major have come back to limit my mobility. Knowing that: makes me wonder how many of these wonderful, beautiful young women will be hobbled only a few years after playing. You don't ask an 18 to 30 year old about life after 50 that is an eternity to them so the responsibility for those bodies belongs with the ADULTS in these programs. To ask kids to run with muscle pain is much different than to perform with injury related pain. You have to ride the tiger before you know how it feels, no one can tell you that.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Not really. Players have to have slots to transfer into. Full rosters means no available slots to transfer into=I'm better off staying where I am because at least I have a slot.

In the early 2000's Geno has a roster of top quality/talent playerl--the only one I ever read about grumbling was Sveta. The mystique and pride of playing on a team that wins and wins and wins has to be a magnet for some team members. Also, does every kid want to play 40 minute every game.?

 

[oldude]

15 scholarships is more than enough. The challenge lies in filling those 15 scholarships with capable players and then keeping all those players who are not seeing PT from transferring. Frankly, I have no idea how you do that. Kids want to play. They don’t want a sit on the bench in case someone gets injured.

In the end, teams have to work hard to develop player strength, flexibility and conditioning; and then hope for a little luck when it comes to injuries. Of course, for those teams that are unlucky, they can always take solace in ND winning a national championship playing basically 5 players.

 

[Dillon77]

15 scholarships is more than enough. The challenge lies in filling those 15 scholarships with capable players and then keeping all those players who are not seeing PT from transferring. Frankly, I have no idea how you do that. Kids want to play. They don’t want a sit on the bench in case someone gets injured.

In the end, teams have to work hard to develop player strength, flexibility and conditioning; and then hope for a little luck when it comes to injuries. Of course, for those teams that are unlucky, they can always take solace in ND winning a national championship playing basically 5 players.

Well said and this is the minorest (huh?) of quibbles (which really does not cut into your point): can we make that 6 players? Koko Nelson really added value off the bench spelling Jessica Shepard and/or Kat Westbeld. And she was a super stabilizing influence for one and all concerned. Thanks!

 

[Charliebball]

Para 2 and 3. Recruiting is not exact--(science?) Injuries occur in practice very true. My concern is there are too many reps on bodies especially knees/legs/hips. As an old fart I know that many, if not all, the injuries I had minor or major have come back to limit my mobility. Knowing that: makes me wonder how many of these wonderful, beautiful young women will be hobbled only a few years after playing. You don't ask an 18 to 30 year old about life after 50 that is an eternity to them so the responsibility for those bodies belongs with the ADULTS in these programs. To ask kids to run with muscle pain is much different than to perform with injury related pain. You have to ride the tiger before you know how it feels, no one can tell you that.

forget about life after thirty, how about 16.................my daughter may have to give up playing high school and potentially college basketball due to a series of knee and foot injuries/surgeries and now add to that back issues..............

 

[Carnac]

forget about life after thirty, how about 16.......my daughter may have to give up playing high school and potentially college basketball due to a series of knee and foot injuries/surgeries and now add to that back issues....

Sadly sometimes injuries cut short would be an otherwise budding career. Remember the words to the "Gambler" by Kenny Rogers? Sometimes those words apply to playing sports. The great thing about life is whenever one door closes, another one opens. Good luck to her going forward.

 

[SVCBeercats]

The inordinate number of injuries, the increased number of transfers...is it time for teams to recruit more players to ensure against a short bench during the course of a season?

I don't see this being an issue for UCONN. For UCONN it isn't about numbers, it is about quality of players. UCONN can't attract enough quality players. A bench full of scrubs won't help UCONN. The coach who is complaining probably is not overly selective with recruits so he may have a problem. UCONN has a problem getting quality players to commit and stay committed.

 

[Charliebball]

I don't see this being an issue for UCONN. For UCONN it isn't about numbers, it quality of players. UCONN can't attract enough quality players. A bench full of scrubs won't help UCONN. The coach who is complaining probably is not overly selective with recruits so he may have a problem. UCONN has a problem getting quality players to commit and stay committed.

How do you know that? If UConn only makes three or four offers out of the top 100 players how could you get enough commitments from quality players for a solid 12-13 player bench on a regular basis?

 

[BroadwayVa]

forget about life after thirty, how about 16.......my daughter may have to give up playing high school and potentially college basketball due to a series of knee and foot injuries/surgeries and now add to that back issues....

I forgot all about those kids playing HS and AAU and earlier grades BB--too much too long--human limbs were not meant to take that wear and tear continuiously, year after year. In ancient America Basketball occupied from Nov to April 1 hour 3 times a week. I see Sue Bird having a hip surgery (replacement?) like a 90 year old ---Shea with 3 (I believe) ACL and no longer playing, yes coaching.

 

[itsasport]

A roster limit of 15 allows for three classes of 4 and one of 3 players. They would be really large classes. even with injuries, there still would not be enough playing time for everyone.

Say there are 4 injured players, that still leaves 11 players fighting for 200 minutes. The really good players want at least 30 minutes, especially in important games

I can't remember any instances of talent-filled classes of 4-5 players working out in the long-run. There were always a number of transfers,

 

[DallasBUFan]

12 is a great roster size. If they are all capable then finding playing time can be hard. If injuries plague you then that number can diminish really fast. I like the 12-13 numbers. It just leaves room for transfers or last minute offers.

 

[triaddukefan]

A roster limit of 15 allows for three classes of 4 and one of 3 players. They would be really large classes. even with injuries, there still would not be enough playing time for everyone.

Say there are 4 injured players, that still leaves 11 players fighting for 200 minutes. The really good players want at least 30 minutes, especially in important games

I can't remember any instances of talent-filled classes of 4-5 players working out in the long-run. There were always a number of transfers,

Duke's class of 2010. Five talented players... none transferred.... all graduated.

 

[oldude]

Duke's class of 2010. Five talented players... none transferred.... all graduated.

That would clearly be an exception. How many other classes at Duke graduated 5 or even 4 players?

 

[meyers7]

Sadly sometimes injuries cut short would be an otherwise budding career. Remember the words to the "Gambler" by Kenny Rogers? Sometimes those words apply to playing sports.

???Cause every hand's a winner
And every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for is to die
in your sleep ???

A bit morbid don't you think?

 

[meyers7]

I can't remember any instances of talent-filled classes of 4-5 players working out in the long-run. There were always a number of transfers,

Hmmm, let's see. For UCONN anyway.
Williams/Bird/Cash/Jones/Walters - none transferred
Taurasi/Conlon/Valley/Battle/Moore - none transferred
Strother/Turner/Crockett/Wolff - none transferred
Montgomery/Greene/Williams/Kerns - none transferred

 

[triaddukefan]

That would clearly be an exception. How many other classes at Duke graduated 5 or even 4 players?

Man.... you asking me to think and I havent even had lunch yet 2011 freshman class had 4 out of 4 graduate. Thats pretty much it as far as I can recall

 

[nwhoopfan]

To answer the OP, I say no. Injuries and transfers happen, but of course are unpredictable. 15 players is way too many to try to juggle. Most teams only go 7-8 deep for all practical purposes. Half the team can't expect to get any meaningful minutes. No wonder so many transfer. If you have 4-5 players out injured of course that is a big obstacle to overcome but that is rare.

 

[SVCBeercats]

How do you know that? If UConn only makes three or four offers out of the top 100 players how could you get enough commitments from quality players for a solid 12-13 player bench on a regular basis?

How do you not know it?

 

[Charliebball]

How do you not know it?

I will reiterate......... you say that UConn can't find enough quality players, I say when you make a minimal number of offers to the most skilled players you're going to get a minimal number of commitments............seems pretty clear to me that if you want to get another player or two you need to make another offer or two.............

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Carrying more players would mean that there would be even fewer upsets in WBB.

 

[j66kicker]

I will reiterate.... you say that UConn can't find enough quality players, I say when you make a minimal number of offers to the most skilled players you're going to get a minimal number of commitments..seems pretty clear to me that if you want to get another player or two you need to make another offer or two...

Totally logical, so I guess we can conclude he doesn't want another player or two if he can't get who he wants. He already got one 'hedge' player this year. I don't have a problem with not settling any further.

 

[Charliebball]

Totally logical, so I guess we can conclude he doesn't want another player or two if he can't get who he wants. He already got one 'hedge' player this year. I don't have a problem with not settling any further.

if UConn doesn't get at least one of Boston or Jones you might have a change of heart...........................take a look at next year's squad without those two and let me know if you are comfortable with the depth of that team..........

 

[j66kicker]

if UConn doesn't get at least one of Boston or Jones you might have a change of heart.......take a look at next year's squad without those two and let me know if you are comfortable with the depth of that team.....

We'll get ours