Division I Board Steering Committee on Governance Draft New Governance System Design January 2014
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If only the SEC, B1G, PAC-12, ACC, and Big 12 are allowed to make the change of from current scholarships to cost of attendance scholarships, it could encourage some more CR.
As a Notre Dame fan, I am hoping we would be covered as a partial member of the ACC. If not, this is one of the few circumstances that would immediately force us to ask the B1G or ACC for full membership.
It seems that BYU would not be covered. I wonder if they would be become a less difficult potential partner and ask for membership in the Big 12.
If either school moves to a P5 conference, they'll need a partner.
As a Notre Dame fan, I am hoping we would be covered as a partial member of the ACC. If not, this is one of the few circumstances that would immediately force us to ask the B1G or ACC for full membership.
It seems that BYU would not be covered. I wonder if they would be become a less difficult potential partner and ask for membership in the Big 12.
If either school moves to a P5 conference, they'll need a partner.
ConnHuskBask
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This whole thing is really some BS.
I wish more than anything we could just have gotten the nod over Louisville and not have to worry about this.
I mean, is there no legal footing for UConn (or Cinci, UCF, etc) to stand on that public institutions are essentially black balled out of FBS Football due to no fault of their own?
I wish more than anything we could just have gotten the nod over Louisville and not have to worry about this.
I mean, is there no legal footing for UConn (or Cinci, UCF, etc) to stand on that public institutions are essentially black balled out of FBS Football due to no fault of their own?
TRest
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It was over when UL stole our lunch money.
Notre Dame is a member of the ACC. They just have a special arrangement regarding football. They will be included in this
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As someone mentioned in this or some other thread, years ago when D1 and D1AA went down, each school selected which rules they wanted to play by. Can't see it being too different if an entire league as a whole decides they want to adopt the same rules the P5 conferences adopt.
If the AAC petitions to have the ability to play by the same rules as the P5 (pay players, scholarships, whatever it is they choose to do) I can't see how the NCAA can rule against it if they permitted other groups to do it.
If the AAC petitions to have the ability to play by the same rules as the P5 (pay players, scholarships, whatever it is they choose to do) I can't see how the NCAA can rule against it if they permitted other groups to do it.
Fishy
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You are missing the fundamental change - "years ago" is exactly the paradigm they are seeking to blow up.
What should scare the hell out of you is the fact that the P5 conferences are listed by name and that the term for what they are seeking is 'autonomy'. They are seeking to make rules that apply only to them - we're not included. Make no assumption that we'll somehow be able to play by their rules while still being governed by the NCAA in the same fashion that they're governing the smaller schools.
We're hoping for inclusion in a document that stresses exclusion - a happy ending is not assured.
I have to tell you. I enjoyed the use of euphemisms in the Proposed Areas. May I translate?
Proposed Areas for Autonomy
•Define a full grant-in-aid as meeting a student-athlete’s cost of attendance in a manner consistent with the core values of the collegiate model and not to exceed total cost of attendance. [In other words, a "full grant in aid" is about to become a FULL GRANT IN AID. Emphasis on "full."
•Lifetime opportunity to fund the undergraduate education of current and former student-athletes. New resources and greater accountability for success of student-athletes. [In other words, we will continue to pay you and find you jobs after you don't graduate. New resources. And we can get you graduated after all. We are going to set up a post eligibility "wink/wink" degree program in conjunction with the University of Phoenix on line where you will - and boy, I mean will - get a college degree]
•Enhanced benefits provided to student-athletes for the purpose of supporting their needs based on available resources. [Ok, I get it. This one doesn't need translation. But I have to anyway. "Enhanced benefits to poor kids out of North Miami, or Tuscaloosa, AL, means money to them and their families. "Enhanced" has to mean something more than the usual. It's "enhanced," after all. People have needs. We can take care of them under the "enhanced benefits" clause.
•Ensure that addressing health and safety needs remain a top priority. [Here's a worthy goal. We have to keep our football players healthy. They and their families have to have health insurance. And other related benefits that come with health insurance.]
•Creation of “athletics dead periods” for student-athletes to access opportunities outside of intercollegiate athletics. [You have to love this one. We're going to give you a "period" like we used to do when you were in first grade and you had morning period and afternoon period. Didn't you like going out for period? Getting out of that room? Getting away from that teach? Even if it was only 15 minutes, I sure loved going out for period. And you know what we're gonna do? That's right. We're gonna give you a period: and "athletics dead period." During this period, you don't have to go to practice. You don't have to talk to Coach. Why? He's on vacation. He goes two weeks a year. When he's on vacation, his wife doesn't let him use the phone. So we're good! That's the "athletics dead period."
•Comprehensive support for academically at-risk student-athletes. [Ok. You saw above that we' all gonna have "enhanced benefits" for poo kids, right? And their families? Right. Now, sometimes they have other problems not exactly related to football. There's other things than footbal. Like someone's cousin can get arrested and he might need a bail bondsman. Or one of them's mothers buys a used car, and dang, after a couple hundred thousand miles it ain't workin. Just flat out giv up. Well, she needs a car. How's she gonna get around? That's his mother after all. How's he gonna study worrying about his mother having to take the bus? No. Not hapnin. She needs a car to get around. We said comprehensive support. Comprehensive. Questions? Comments? P5? Any one else?
•Redefinition of rules governing agents and advisors to assist student-athletes with career planning. [If you loved "Comprehensive support" you gonna really love this one. "career planning?" "Agents?" Isn't that what agents do? Agents are career planners. Complete autonomy over what agents will henceforth be allowed to do. Agents may find a way to help plan your career if you happen to attend our institution. World Wide must've written this one. Can you imagine what this means? The P5 is going to define what agents are allowed to do. Agents pay money for access. Alabama is worth a lot of money to agents. If you go to Alabama, then agents may pay you money. If you go to Boston College, the agent may pay you money. Maybe not as much, but your kid's gettin paid. Connecticut too. Because the P5 is writing the rules. It's legal. If you have the money to do it, then do it. If it's important to you, then do it. Alabama doesn't have the money. But it's important to them. That important. So even though they don't have the money according to our values, they do it. It's that important. It's not that important to us. Therein lies the difference. It's not important to BC either, but just you watch, they will do it if they have to. And so will we. BC needs the money more because they are private. They are lucky, but they made the commitment years ago, and the State of Connecticut simply was not. Too short sighted, too curmudgeonly, too parochial, too Storrs, too New England, too whatever, we didn't have the vision of a Boston College. Don't let that hurt you. Don't let that cause you pain. We didn't have the passion. Syracuse did. BC did. They had the passion. These rules are designed to protect the passion. Let them do whatever the H they want. That's what these "career planning" - and you have to chuckle - rules say.
•Personnel limits. (number of non-coaching personnel)- [Almost done. We can hire your dad. And your mom. And your brother. And your uncle (but he will have to show up for a couple of hours in the morning - it's a state job!). And your grandpa. Grandma. They're all valuable additions to the athletic department or "friends" of the athletic department. Car dealers. Everyone who helps out is considered "non coaching personnel." The don't exactly coach, but they help the football program. And that helps the program. It does, right? Aren't these the schools you want to play against?
Proposed Areas for Autonomy
•Define a full grant-in-aid as meeting a student-athlete’s cost of attendance in a manner consistent with the core values of the collegiate model and not to exceed total cost of attendance. [In other words, a "full grant in aid" is about to become a FULL GRANT IN AID. Emphasis on "full."
•Lifetime opportunity to fund the undergraduate education of current and former student-athletes. New resources and greater accountability for success of student-athletes. [In other words, we will continue to pay you and find you jobs after you don't graduate. New resources. And we can get you graduated after all. We are going to set up a post eligibility "wink/wink" degree program in conjunction with the University of Phoenix on line where you will - and boy, I mean will - get a college degree]
•Enhanced benefits provided to student-athletes for the purpose of supporting their needs based on available resources. [Ok, I get it. This one doesn't need translation. But I have to anyway. "Enhanced benefits to poor kids out of North Miami, or Tuscaloosa, AL, means money to them and their families. "Enhanced" has to mean something more than the usual. It's "enhanced," after all. People have needs. We can take care of them under the "enhanced benefits" clause.
•Ensure that addressing health and safety needs remain a top priority. [Here's a worthy goal. We have to keep our football players healthy. They and their families have to have health insurance. And other related benefits that come with health insurance.]
•Creation of “athletics dead periods” for student-athletes to access opportunities outside of intercollegiate athletics. [You have to love this one. We're going to give you a "period" like we used to do when you were in first grade and you had morning period and afternoon period. Didn't you like going out for period? Getting out of that room? Getting away from that teach? Even if it was only 15 minutes, I sure loved going out for period. And you know what we're gonna do? That's right. We're gonna give you a period: and "athletics dead period." During this period, you don't have to go to practice. You don't have to talk to Coach. Why? He's on vacation. He goes two weeks a year. When he's on vacation, his wife doesn't let him use the phone. So we're good! That's the "athletics dead period."
•Comprehensive support for academically at-risk student-athletes. [Ok. You saw above that we' all gonna have "enhanced benefits" for poo kids, right? And their families? Right. Now, sometimes they have other problems not exactly related to football. There's other things than footbal. Like someone's cousin can get arrested and he might need a bail bondsman. Or one of them's mothers buys a used car, and dang, after a couple hundred thousand miles it ain't workin. Just flat out giv up. Well, she needs a car. How's she gonna get around? That's his mother after all. How's he gonna study worrying about his mother having to take the bus? No. Not hapnin. She needs a car to get around. We said comprehensive support. Comprehensive. Questions? Comments? P5? Any one else?
•Redefinition of rules governing agents and advisors to assist student-athletes with career planning. [If you loved "Comprehensive support" you gonna really love this one. "career planning?" "Agents?" Isn't that what agents do? Agents are career planners. Complete autonomy over what agents will henceforth be allowed to do. Agents may find a way to help plan your career if you happen to attend our institution. World Wide must've written this one. Can you imagine what this means? The P5 is going to define what agents are allowed to do. Agents pay money for access. Alabama is worth a lot of money to agents. If you go to Alabama, then agents may pay you money. If you go to Boston College, the agent may pay you money. Maybe not as much, but your kid's gettin paid. Connecticut too. Because the P5 is writing the rules. It's legal. If you have the money to do it, then do it. If it's important to you, then do it. Alabama doesn't have the money. But it's important to them. That important. So even though they don't have the money according to our values, they do it. It's that important. It's not that important to us. Therein lies the difference. It's not important to BC either, but just you watch, they will do it if they have to. And so will we. BC needs the money more because they are private. They are lucky, but they made the commitment years ago, and the State of Connecticut simply was not. Too short sighted, too curmudgeonly, too parochial, too Storrs, too New England, too whatever, we didn't have the vision of a Boston College. Don't let that hurt you. Don't let that cause you pain. We didn't have the passion. Syracuse did. BC did. They had the passion. These rules are designed to protect the passion. Let them do whatever the H they want. That's what these "career planning" - and you have to chuckle - rules say.
•Personnel limits. (number of non-coaching personnel)- [Almost done. We can hire your dad. And your mom. And your brother. And your uncle (but he will have to show up for a couple of hours in the morning - it's a state job!). And your grandpa. Grandma. They're all valuable additions to the athletic department or "friends" of the athletic department. Car dealers. Everyone who helps out is considered "non coaching personnel." The don't exactly coach, but they help the football program. And that helps the program. It does, right? Aren't these the schools you want to play against?
The main ones to watch out for would be to see if student scholarship limits + the max # of coaches on staff would go up under this proposed breakaway.
If the limit goes up by another 22 scholarships or so (which is the difference between FCS & FBS), it'll be very difficult for non-P5 conferences to get enough talent to compete. It may also lead to more realignment since certain schools the P5 structure may opt to drop out due to the additional financial costs.
If the limit goes up by another 22 scholarships or so (which is the difference between FCS & FBS), it'll be very difficult for non-P5 conferences to get enough talent to compete. It may also lead to more realignment since certain schools the P5 structure may opt to drop out due to the additional financial costs.
SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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The P-5 won't be able to separate themselves solely based on membership. Whatever objective measure they use (stadium size, # of sports, attendance, budget) UConn will be able to meet. No so for more than a few P5 programs.
Unintentionally, or perhaps intentionally, this could open a spot for us if the intent is for this D4 to consist of school committed to FB instead of only TV checks.
Bust out those stadium expansion plans Susan.
Unintentionally, or perhaps intentionally, this could open a spot for us if the intent is for this D4 to consist of school committed to FB instead of only TV checks.
Bust out those stadium expansion plans Susan.
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There is no way the AAC or any conference will be excluded against its will, the P5 might create changes that would financially encourage many schools to drop out, but i'm confident the AAC and certainly UCONN will be a survivor. Houston and Tulane aren't building new stadiums so they can drop down to FCS level.
Fishy
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There's a reason the American shows up nowhere in the text - it's already been excluded.
When you call something 'autonomy' and you give it to five conferences, you can make no assumption that the American will be allowed to participate.
Unfortunately, with that sort of stick, all the P5 needs to do is ratchet up the requirements to where either some of the smaller AAC/MWC/CUSA-types start to say 'uncle' or whether they simply even outdistance the UConns and Cincinnatis.
It's not a hard scenario to imagine given that even wreckage like Rutgers and Maryland will soon draw revenue checks $30,000,000 higher than we will.
We can survive if we get out - this is nerve-wracking s---.
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They would damage the sport by pissing off at least 1/5 of the college football fanbase. There are people in the P5 who still have a conscious and a healthy fear of lawsuits, they are not going to shoot themselves in the foot by creating massive exclusionary changes. They will dabble with exclusionary changes over an extended period of time to see what they can get away with. The process will be a slow squeeze, not a quick gunshot to the head. At the end of the day UCONN will be a survivor.
To start things off the bar for inclusion will be set low:
Define a full grant-in-aid as meeting a student-athlete’s cost of attendance in a manner
consistent with the core values of the collegiate model and not to exceed total cost of
attendance.
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Drew
Its a post, about nothing!
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Now here's a serious/controverial question. No clue if this would ever happen or not but what happens if the criteria for this new division and being "committed" to the highest level of football includes an on campus stadium? Mansfield was already very outspoken when we built the rent about putting the stadium in Storrs, imagine if we had to do it in order to survive at the highest level? One would have to think it would be in the best interest of the state to do it but imagine if we got stuck in purgatory because Mansfield wouldn't let us build a stadium.
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The Hurricanes are screwed then. So is UCLA, USC (I think). Without doing any research I'm gonna guess several other P5's would be , so can't see that as a criteria.
Fishy
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Good lord.
Miami, UCLA, Baylor, South Carolina, Pitt, Washington, Oregon, NC State, Navy....
ConnHuskBask
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On one hand, autonomy for the P5 means they can make their own rules. AAC and everyone else is screwed.
On the other hand, it would seem that if schools are willing to meet whatever criteria is set and still be locked out, there could be legal battles.
I guess they could let schools into the P5 as independents, but without the TV revenue or scheduling arrangements, I'm not sure how we or a Cinci could compete.
In reality split only really affects BYU, Boise, UConn, Cinci, USF, UCF, Houston, and maybe ECU. For the rest of the AAC, MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt, I don't see how this changes anything.
The worst case right now, is UCF/Cinci going to the Big12, ending CR. At that point, I think we'd have to explore independence ( I've always said this is impossible) if the big east would take our basketball programs.
On the other hand, it would seem that if schools are willing to meet whatever criteria is set and still be locked out, there could be legal battles.
I guess they could let schools into the P5 as independents, but without the TV revenue or scheduling arrangements, I'm not sure how we or a Cinci could compete.
In reality split only really affects BYU, Boise, UConn, Cinci, USF, UCF, Houston, and maybe ECU. For the rest of the AAC, MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt, I don't see how this changes anything.
The worst case right now, is UCF/Cinci going to the Big12, ending CR. At that point, I think we'd have to explore independence ( I've always said this is impossible) if the big east would take our basketball programs.
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doesn't it say that this is for football only.
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how is this not collusion?
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Don't over react. Basically, the P5 wants to set the rules for FBS football and not let the smaller schools dictate or have a say in the rules. In case you haven't been watching, the number of schools in FBS has exploded over the past few years. So much so that the non-P5 schools could soon outnumber the P5 schools in FBS.
At the end of 2013, there were 125 FBS schools and 4 schools are upgrading to FBS in 2015 to bring the total to 129: Appalachian St., Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. The current p5 is 65 schools, so sometime in the future, the non-P5 schools will outnumber the P5 schools in FBS
In my opinion, the bar for FBS football is about to be raised and some schools will have tough decisions. I believe the American as well as most of the MWC and the service academies will be fine. For example, there are 33 FBS schools that would not meet a 20k attendance rolling 4 year average.
At the end of 2013, there were 125 FBS schools and 4 schools are upgrading to FBS in 2015 to bring the total to 129: Appalachian St., Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. The current p5 is 65 schools, so sometime in the future, the non-P5 schools will outnumber the P5 schools in FBS
In my opinion, the bar for FBS football is about to be raised and some schools will have tough decisions. I believe the American as well as most of the MWC and the service academies will be fine. For example, there are 33 FBS schools that would not meet a 20k attendance rolling 4 year average.
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