Did Alabama steal signs to beat UNC?

[Palatine]

Except from WP article.

Sign stealing by players, coaches and staff members is common practice during college basketball and NBA games, though Alabama was afforded an unusual advantage Thursday. The Los Angeles venue hosted a doubleheader — Clemson beat Arizona before Alabama upset North Carolina — and the arena’s lower bowl was divided into four fan sections, one for each school. The higher-seeded teams, No. 1 North Carolina and No. 2 Arizona, had their fan sections directly behind their team benches. The lower-seeded teams, No. 4 Alabama and No. 6 Clemson, were pushed across the court to the opposite side.

As such, the Alabama graduate assistants, forced into the overflow section, enjoyed an unobstructed view of North Carolina’s bench from across the court. Once Tar Heels Coach Hubert Davis signaled to his team, the Crimson Tide’s graduate assistants set about deciphering the call. When that was complete, often within a second or two, they loudly shouted out the play in unison — “Floppy,” “Rebel,” or “Double” — to notify Alabama’s defense...


...... the graduate assistants also painstakingly charted the game action. During timeouts, their notes were shuttled from their location in the fan section to Oats by player development coordinator Christian Pino. Though the unusual sight of paper flowing from the stands to the huddle raised eyebrows among media members and prompted some confusion for event staffers, NCAA rules only prohibit electronic communications to the bench during games.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Good. Have them relay UConn's plays to the bench "ummmmm....ummmmm.... the one where ummmm.... they DHO and then ummmm....set a high ball screen and then ummmm....or was it play #43? Or maybe #59....ahhhhhh. F it"

 

[evmore]

That said, it would make sense to start with some action they haven't seen/ Like a great NFL OC, Shirley you've got some good on ice for this occasion, right? screw it, we're 1/2 way to running CHIN offense as it is, why not hit them with some b/d's slips & flares? Then bring out the staggers & re-screens, etc after the 1st timeout

 

[Henry]

I saw that article in WaPo over the weekend, so definitely not April Fools.

I thought I read here a little while ago that Alex listens for things said by opposing players and coaches to get an idea of what they plan to do. Certainly not as sleazy as posting spies.

 

[EnochRoot]

Yeah I read this article the other day. Definitely not an April Fools, and yes, it would certainly appear that planting de facto staff in the stands for the sole purpose of documenting play calls, and then said staff rushes copy of said plays to the coach, would be against the rules.

Or hell, does everybody do this?

 

[McLovin]

I have no idea if they were "stealing" signs (which in basketball I'd assume is a lot less impactful than in a sport like football or baseball). But our offense is very complex where we can run so many different actions out of base sets PLUS a lot of the action is based off of the players on court decisions. I wouldn't be worried. If anything, I'd expect Hurley to try to use it against them to get some easy hoops.

 

[Mr. French]

I mean…this is what we’d do in high school scouting other teams.

Pointing out their actions and calls and then figuring out how to defend them is…scouting I think?

 

[mussels]

The NC old guard that instituted the fake classes must be incensed that the young bucks running the place today are getting out cheated.

 

[UCfor3]

Didn't Jim Harbaugh get suspended for doing this in football?

 

[auror]

For the most part in basketball, both teams knows every play that's about to happen, at least the shell of it. it's all available on video.

That's why counters, variations, and just general execution, screening, and timing are the most important things. Or in our case, just having more plays than you can learn to defend in a day/week.

 

[Chin Diesel]

How can you steal something which is displayed publicly for all to see?

 

[Huskyforlife]

I don’t see how this would be different from watching film.

 

[Palatine]

How can you steal something which is displayed publicly for all to see?

It is having spies in the stands that is the problem. It is an unfair advantage. That's how you break the rules in this case.

 

[caw]

It is having spies in the stands that is the problem. It is an unfair advantage. That's how you break the rules in this case.

Yeah, I guess it's one thing to figure it out by seeing what is happening on the court and something different by having eyes on the opponents bench. Not sure how it can be relayed quickly enough with paper passing though to gain any real advantage.

 

[storrsroars]

I think Newton should just randomly wave his arm, yell "Omaha!", and then do whatever the hell they were gonna do anyway.

 

[Patman]

It is having spies in the stands that is the problem. It is an unfair advantage. That's how you break the rules in this case.

assuming there are rules. I would assume most teams keep this on the downlow or don't go so weaponized full-powered. If you get the ability to watch the other team play who is going to say where your eyes can or can't go. I mean, what's the alternative, ushering all team staff out of the building before the next game?

 

[dennismenace]

I don’t see how this would be different from watching film.

Real time.

 

[UCFan1513]

God what a total scumbag Nate Oates is. I remember there was a time where we really wanted him over Hurley. After the condoning and minimizing murder last year, and now this, he’s turning into CBB’s next great thug

 

[Palatine]

It's also a "work around" the rules that prohibit electronic messaging to the coaching staff during the game.

 

[BlueMAB]

To all those posters outraged over this. Does it matter that sign stealing isn't against the rules?

NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states that off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents in the same season is prohibited. Sign stealing is not prohibited under NCAA rules, but team officials are not allowed to scout future opponents in-person or use electronic devices to transmit data.

They attempted to gain a competitive advantage, legally. If we found out our guys were doing this, I doubt the reaction would be this negative on this board.

 

[BlueMAB]

It's also "completely legal" because the rules only prohibit electronic messaging to the coaching staff during the game.

FIFY

 

[CTBasketball]

I’d imagine it’s pretty easy to steal signs from a team who runs primarily high ball screens as their offense. With Option A being iso for RJ Davis, Option B is a roller to Bacot or get him to post up, and Option C is a drive/kick to Cormac Ryan or Cadeau. And to really throw a wrinkle, sometimes Cormac Ryan cuts baseline.

Really mind blowing offense from Hubert Davis. Gotta give him credit.

 

[Chin Diesel]

To all those posters outraged over this. Does it matter that sign stealing isn't against the rules?

NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which states that off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents in the same season is prohibited. Sign stealing is not prohibited under NCAA rules, but team officials are not allowed to scout future opponents in-person or use electronic devices to transmit data.

They attempted to gain a competitive advantage, legally. If we found out our guys were doing this, I doubt the reaction would be this negative on this board.

And the rule about in-person scouting of future opponents was put in place as a cost-savings measure for competitive balance not an information leveling measure.

The fear was larger schools with bigger budgets would routinely send multiple people to watch future opponents in person whereas smaller schools with smaller budgets wouldn't be able to do the same.

Put me firmly in the camp of not caring about any sign stealing by human observation whether in-person or by watching film. Runner on second watching a catcher flip fingers? fine by me. Having someone in the stands with binoculars sending a signal to the dugout and having someone bang a trash can? fine by me. Having someone study every story board held up on a football sign and subsequent plays? fine by me. Having someone in the stands look in to a huddle? fine by me.

Be creative and smart as a staff. If you are verbally or visually doing something to communicate between staff and players, it's fair game. Every person who is just a fan has access to that information, as does the TV crew and anyone else at the stadium. I draw the line at electronically stealing like in the NFL where plays are called in to QB's headset.

 

[cp176]

I have no idea if they were "stealing" signs (which in basketball I'd assume is a lot less impactful than in a sport like football or baseball). But our offense is very complex where we can run so many different actions out of base sets PLUS a lot of the action is based off of the players on court decisions. I wouldn't be worried. If anything, I'd expect Hurley to try to use it against them to get some easy hoops.

My guess is that in Coach Hurley's world the emphasis has always been on teaching kids how to play as opposed to simply teaching them plays. At this point in time, everyone knows exactly what to expect. The goal would be to stop your opponent from doing the things that they want to do. If you have to resort to in game reports from people stationed in the stands to help you do this, your program ain't so hot.

 

[Chin Diesel]

My guess is that in Coach Hurley's world the emphasis has always been on teaching kids how to play as opposed to simply teaching them plays. At this point in time, everyone knows exactly what to expect. The goal would be to stop your opponent from doing the things that they want to do. If you have to resort to in game reports from people stationed in the stands to help you do this, your program ain't so hot.

There was a great comment by the analyst during the first two rounds. I forget which game or which analyst. He noted UConn seems to run principles as much as they run plays. He noted it requires all the players to recognize what the defense is doing at any point and how to counter what the defense is taking away and the resultant what the defense is giving. He was impressed by what UConn does on the court.