Depth Chart Changes: Homecoming
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whaler11
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No but I know it won't make a difference in 2014 but it might in 2018.
It's never one single decision. It's the fact there is no coherent set of consistent decisions. When the season was young the games were exhibitions. Now that the season is cooked they are important?
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I've never understood the red shirt views some have here. I tend to not care a less who will be playing in 5 years. And, well, you can RS after your Fr year, so there is the chance you will see him in 18.
Then again, I don't see us as having much of a choice - if Hadley were earning PT might we heard of him once this year? When you are building a program, you don't cut corners, regardless. In this program, the next guy up goes in, because he he has earned it. You don't take that away to cut a corner. The players see that sorta stuff and then they wonder why they can't cut corners.
Regardless, for those inclined to protect a RS - at what point in the season can you no longer burn one (IYO) - was ECU too late? Tulane? Temple? USF? Boise? Just curious as to where you draw the line.
And did Diaco ever say the games were exhibitions? I don't recall that, although I do recall some taking Jacobs article (who most promptly despise when he says something they don't like) completely out of context
"This is only the exhibition season!" .....
The first-year UConn coach said none of those things after the 35-10 loss to BYU or in the weekly media session Tuesday inside Burton Family Football
Complex. Yet sometimes it's not the words that are said but the feeling one is left with walking away that can matter.
Then again, I don't see us as having much of a choice - if Hadley were earning PT might we heard of him once this year? When you are building a program, you don't cut corners, regardless. In this program, the next guy up goes in, because he he has earned it. You don't take that away to cut a corner. The players see that sorta stuff and then they wonder why they can't cut corners.
Regardless, for those inclined to protect a RS - at what point in the season can you no longer burn one (IYO) - was ECU too late? Tulane? Temple? USF? Boise? Just curious as to where you draw the line.
And did Diaco ever say the games were exhibitions? I don't recall that, although I do recall some taking Jacobs article (who most promptly despise when he says something they don't like) completely out of context
"This is only the exhibition season!" .....
The first-year UConn coach said none of those things after the 35-10 loss to BYU or in the weekly media session Tuesday inside Burton Family Football
Complex. Yet sometimes it's not the words that are said but the feeling one is left with walking away that can matter.
whaler11
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Redshirting players is the opposite of cutting corners. It's showing patience and taking the long view.
If you think UConn can be successful in the long term not redshirting players in general I'd strongly disagree with that. When you aren't landing top shelf recruits ready to step in and play it's how you build depth and put players on the field after they have developed rather than before.
If you think UConn can be successful in the long term not redshirting players in general I'd strongly disagree with that. When you aren't landing top shelf recruits ready to step in and play it's how you build depth and put players on the field after they have developed rather than before.
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you...BUT...
Diaco has been recruiting kids for a long time. He might think McAllister is a good player. He also might think he is not a special player. He might think "I know I can recruit 25 kids just like him every year" so in HIS mind he might be thinking that he will have better talent on the field in 2018.
The problem that the fanbase has is we fall in love with guys based on HS stats, a few youtube videos, and project success that may or may not ever come. The reality is that a good percentage of FBS players are fungible.
Diaco's view on half the roster might be "once I get 2-3 years of my recruits in here none of these guys will be playing anyway"...now of course he isn't going to say that publicly. Which means he might value redshirts on HIS guys more than he would value them on P's guys.
(I can't really comment on how much of this class is HCBD's or who belongs to P and HCBD just held it together - I don't pay that close of attention)
whaler11
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If you don't see the value of redshirting... let me know if you'd like to enter 2015 without:
Vann
Adams
Ashiru
Campenni
Adeyemi
Did you like having Davis this season?
Would you take Foxx's 2015 over what he did in 2011?
Maybe this specific player doesn't pan out - but doesn't wanting to redshirt him and take the chance actually make me optimistic?
Vann
Adams
Ashiru
Campenni
Adeyemi
Did you like having Davis this season?
Would you take Foxx's 2015 over what he did in 2011?
Maybe this specific player doesn't pan out - but doesn't wanting to redshirt him and take the chance actually make me optimistic?
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I will respectfully disagree; it is cutting corners.
The frustrating thing about this thread is that it continues a theme of taking something other than facts and spinning them out of control. Who is the 4th corner this week? According to media reports it is HADLEY, not Brice. Diaco HAS to burn ONE red shirt, period. You do get that? You do see that he was trying to RS both Brice and Hadley. He will likely try and avoid burning 2. But he will not punish the other kids on the team who are trying to learn, do the right thing, and win by pulling you and me out of the stands and lining us up at corner to protect a RS.
The frustrating thing about this thread is that it continues a theme of taking something other than facts and spinning them out of control. Who is the 4th corner this week? According to media reports it is HADLEY, not Brice. Diaco HAS to burn ONE red shirt, period. You do get that? You do see that he was trying to RS both Brice and Hadley. He will likely try and avoid burning 2. But he will not punish the other kids on the team who are trying to learn, do the right thing, and win by pulling you and me out of the stands and lining us up at corner to protect a RS.
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I did not say that I don't see the value in a RS, so stop for once making stuff up to fit your facts. I don't see the VALUE (I'll use your words) of RS'g when you are good enough to play or are needed. And no, I did not think any of those you listed were ready to play or were needed as true freshman.
Oh, and Adams is back because he got huirt AFTER his Fr year, not because he sat as a true frosh.
uconndogs...I certainly hope you are right for UConn's sake. Brian Kelly brought Charley Molnar from Central Michigan to Cincinnati and then to Notre Dame. Let me tell you that Charley Molnar is a fool.
I'm not saying BD is Molnar and as a UConn football fan I sincerely hope that he isn't. I just wouldn't put much credence in Brian Kelly assistants. I get the sense that Kelly's ego does not allow him to delegate too much of the decision making.
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You're wrong about a few things. Adams redshirted his true frosh year. I can buy the argument that he has to burn either Hadley or McAllister's RS. But Diaco has stated that McAllister is going to play in games. And because Hadley is listed on the 2 deep, we are basing this on the assumption that BOTH of them will play.
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Obviously, if Jones isn't out, there is no need to bump up a younger player on the roster. Holy crap, I didn't think I need to point that out - the discussion here is about who gets bumped up. I thought at least.
I've made the point a few times now, I'm not going to put up all the info and links and articles blah blah that I've looked at over the past several weeks trying to get inside the head of this coach and figure out WTF he is doing. Vast majority of you all won't read it anyway, and if you are interested, it's not hard to find. I"ve given plenty of clues of what I'm talking about. I have no direct knowledge of this, but I'd bet the boat, that Diaco is assembling his game day rosters based on player evaluations, that are coming from a detailed, multifactorial approach to evaluation, of which physical skill level, is just one. There is a TON of off field stuff going into his player evaluations - IMNSHO - as well it should be, because I believe that college football exists, as an adjunct to an education and going from a teenager to an adult. I don't know how much more clear I can be about this. With the view I have developed after reading a lot about this quirky guy in the past few weeks tryign to figure out WTF is going on, the things he's said, done, regarding player personnel through almost a full year now - it all makes very clear sense. He has a very detailed plan as to defining what a complete football player in his program is supposed to be, and how those players are supposed to get there, and how they are progressing in that regard, is related directly to where they stand on the depth charts. Physical skill level, is only a small part.
One more way to put this - IF, IF - we had a solid roster of 3rd, 4th year players - that were of the same mold - as say a Byron Jones, or a Deshon Foxx - a rookie like McAllister would not ever see the two deep roster on game day. And I use Jones, and Foxx as examples - not because of physical ability alone - but what they represent off the field as individuals representing themselves, and their university as well.
This is nothing like boyle BTW. Boyle has been on the depth chart, and getting playing time since Cochran went out in September. it's pretty simple about Boyle, breaking it all down finally as the season goes on. If the kid would get in the game and do something good, instead of something bad - he would play more. Simple.
As I've said upteen times now - the player personnel choices that Diaco is making to assemble game day rosters? I got no problem with the process and selection. I've got lots of questions about WTF we are doing to assemble game plans, tactics and strategy in offensive and defensive structures, play calling from those structures, and game time coaching decision making - to achieve those wins. So far, all of that is failing.
THe individual player development part of Diaco's program is working great - it's a tried and true plan and approach. His team building toward winning, is what's not working - to date. Putting a true freshmen in the 2-deep when a 5th year senior goes out? That should tell you about the recruiting that's been done in the past 6 years. That's all.
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Oh come on dude. Redshirting is a luxury that comes with having adequate depth charts. Redshirting is the end product of decent recruiting and player development, not the starting point - offensive linemen being the only marked exception. Our OL recruiting has been a disaster for many years now. Hopefully Pasqualoni's classes will come along in Diaco's plan, and Diaco's first class, and next class, stops that trend - now.
whaler11
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Redshirting is not a luxury for a 1-6 team. It's a necessity. It's how a program like UConn creates the depth you claim to need to have.
This conversation is lunacy.
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Have to say. Carl's post is spot on, and it didn't take him a chapter to make a very valid point. I get the counter argument, that this seems like a lost season, and how much could McCallister actually matter in the results, but you have to line up and play every game on the schedule. I far from love the idea of removing redshirts at this point, but if there is a necessity there, I don't see an alternative.
Husky25
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It's not really cutting corners. The Redshirt is a valuable tool, but you can't determine who you try to redshirt in a vacuum. The plan was to RS Boyle, but that was when two able QBs were ahead of him. There are some who believe he still should not have played at all in any game in an effort to keep his redshirt. I've come to terms with burning his Redshirt over the last 2 months, because while trying to keep it is good in theory and works on the PlayStation, real life is far different. Real life doesn't have a reset button. In real life, both QB's need to prepare as if they are going to play. In real life, the backup needs to be mentally ready to go into the game if the starter gets hurt.
Same thing here. The one thing I agree with Whaler whole heartedly is that McAllister is on the two deep only because Jones got hurt. If he didn't get hurt, this discussion does not happen, but given the teams' resources and talent level, McAllister is next man up. So be it.
Here is a tweet from Jon Kiem
John Keim@john_keim Follow
bashaud Breeland is the pick. CB...Skins looking for a guy who can help at this spot in 2015 and beyond. don't need big contributions in '14
Breeland was a 4th round pick and expected to play sparingly (Nickel and Dime packages, if that). Then D'Angelo Hall tore his ACL and Breeland just turned in his first monster performance (of hopefully many more) on Monday Night for the 'Skins.
whaler11
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They have not needed to play Boyle yet. They could have redshirted him. He's contributed nothing and has gotten nothing out of how he's been used.
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We are not getting college ready recruits like Alabama and the like get. Redshirting at UConn should be the norm, not the exception. We always had depth on Edsall teams Why? Because he knew this.
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Wowzers.
So instead of sticking with the concept of man down - next man up (regardless of the plan to establish who the next man is) - instead of sticking with that singular concept of winning - the concept that man down, next man up - lets go get after a win ....you think that should be scrapped this season for "man down - find a scrub body to sacrifice until we try to win next season."
Wouldn't have figured you a guy to have that attitude whaler.
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Chicken or egg - which comes first - adequate depth charts or redshirting?
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I don't agree with the 2 QB rotation - I"ve been clear about that, but this pretty bold, to claim that the player has gotten nothing out of his participation with this program this year, and vice versa, that the program has gotten nothing in return from him. His production on the field is lacking, but I'm 100% positive, that if he was not a productive player individually and contributing to the team, he wouldn't be on the roster.
Chill out whaler.
Husky25
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Molnar was put into no win situation in western Massachusetts. First, he was OC for only 2 years under Kelly. Jeff Quinn was OC in Cinci. Secondly, neither he, nor the program in general had the full faith and backing of the UMass administration, and if you think 25 miles is too long to travel for home games, it's a solid hour and a half from Amherst to Foxboro (longer by bus). UMass effectively played 12 away games a season.
The following passage speaks volumes as well (emphasis added): "[UMASS Athletic Director John McCutcheon] said he’s already heard from a few players and their parents, and that many were concerned about the fate of the team’s strength and conditioning program -- the first season in which the football team has had a dedicated strength and conditioning coach -- which they felt strongly about keeping."
It's no wonder Diaco revamped the S&C staff almost immediately after getting here. Diaco was the country best non-head coach after the 2012 season and he wasn't just a coordinator. He was associate head coach of a recent powerhouse.
Husky25
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Boyle is not a robot. He's not bites of data that has no emotion. I agree that he probably should not be put in for a series each game, but he has to being the mind set that he is not going to redshirt. Subconsciously, it's near impossible not to lose some focus when you know you are not going to play.
whaler11
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He wouldn't know he's not going to play. He'd know he was going to play if Whitmer got hurt. Sort of like hundreds of other quarterbacks at every level.
Jmoney gave the easiest solution. If Whitmer gets hurt in game, Foxx mops up and Boyle starts the next game. Outcome is redshirt is preserved unless it needs to be used.
Seriously that isn't better than what Boyle's gotten to date?
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whaler11
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Well based on what we can actually see from Boyle is that his contribution on the field is a net negative. Theoretical contributions are nice and all - but he hasn't improved and he hasn't contributed positive results so not sure why it's proven to be so wise.
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This makes sense also but keep in mind we lost Tyree Clark and David Stevenson before the season. That was the depth at the position. I think this move is out of sheer necessity and. BD'S hands are sorta tied here.
whaler11
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Maybe a debate at game 1. Not a debate at 1-6.
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I think this is where you and I differ from the rest on the other side of this. We are not playing BYU next week. We're at game 7. You don't make the same decisions you do in week 1.
From what I remember neither one of us griped about Summers playing against BYU. Or Carrezola. Or Diggs. Or Newsome. Or Johnson. Or any other true frosh. Week 1 I have no issue with it. Week 7 is just insane. And it's not a neccesity. I wish people would stop saying that.
whaler11
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You don't make the same decision if you are 1-6 versus 4-3 or 6-1 either.
I would have liked to redshirt one of the running backs but it was clear there was no way it was happening so it wasn't even worth discussing.
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