Defense!!! | The Boneyard

Defense!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
1,262
Reaction Score
1,164
I think what surprised me the most in the Stanford game was our lack of defense. Uconn teams have been famous for their defense but Monday night was some of the worse defense I have ever seen a Geno team play. Stanford was driving past our guards and no one was helping out. They had open shot after open shot and no one seemed to be able to stay in their face. Stewie did have a couple of nice blocks but last year I remember games when Moriah Jefferson would be so disruptive that she would change the game completely. Kia Nurse was impressive on defense but the refs were calling such a tight game that she fouled out. I loved Chong's offense but did not see her play any defense at all.

I know a lot of people thought our problem was on offense but I think we scored enough points to win most games. If we played Uconn defense, this game would not have been close.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
UConn has statistically played stellar defense over the years. However, I am more inclined to believe that the stellar defense is more a function of UConn playing overmatched opponents than in actually shutting down great offensive players. How many truly great offensive players have the Huskies played over the years? Among those, how many were totally shut down? Basketball, being a team game, it is not necessary to shut down the star to achieve decisive victory, merely ensure that the rest of the team does not have career games.
Stanford was able to keep UConn's defense honest making weakside help/rotation vulnerable to the easy dish or to the kickout beyond the arc.
 

wallman

UCLA Bruin
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
1,184
Reaction Score
2,376
I was talking with some of my buddies after the game and the one thing that we all said was that we did not notice Moriah in the game and usually she is like a whirling dervish.
 

msf22b

Maestro
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,278
Reaction Score
16,892
UConn has statistically played stellar defense over the years. However, I am more inclined to believe that the stellar defense is more a function of UConn playing overmatched opponents than in actually shutting down great offensive players. How many truly great offensive players have the Huskies played over the years? Among those, how many were totally shut down? Basketball, being a team game, it is not necessary to shut down the star to achieve decisive victory, merely ensure that the rest of the team does not have career games.
Stanford was able to keep UConn's defense honest making weakside help/rotation vulnerable to the easy dish or to the kickout beyond the arc.

In the last two games against ND, Loyd was shut down; Diggins, in the semifinal. The Louisville kids have not done much against us and the rep of shutting down the best player certainly has some basis in fact.

A overly exaggerated viewpoint in my view.
 

meyers7

You Talkin’ To Me?
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
23,403
Reaction Score
60,436
How many truly great offensive players have the Huskies played over the years?
Pretty much most of them? I mean UCONN plays most of the good teams each year. The better offensive players usually play on these teams. So I'd say UCONN has faced lots of them.

Among those, how many were totally shut down?
Well truly great offensive players are not ever totally shut down. (KML wasn't totally shut down). But one can certainly limit their effectiveness. And UCONN is actually known for doing this over the years. You know like Sims shooting 4-25. Stuff like that.
 

msf22b

Maestro
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,278
Reaction Score
16,892
i'm the only one screaming this

But Moriah may not be 100%
I've never known her to disappear like she has for the first half against UCDavis and virtually the entire Stanford game.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
In the last two games against ND, Loyd was shut down; Diggins, in the semifinal. The Louisville kids have not done much against us and the rep of shutting down the best player certainly has some basis in fact.

A overly exaggerated viewpoint in my view.

Let's compile a list of games played against teams with first team All Americans in their All American seasons and determine how many of these first team All Americans UConn actually shut down. I have not done any research, so it is possible my opinion will be proven totally wrong. I just do not recall any of the truly gifted players being totally shut down by UConn. Maybe rendered ineffective, winning despite good performances. It is even rarer when UConn has faced teams with multiple highly gifted players; Notre Dame, Baylor, Stanford, Tennessee, North Carolina; A very short list to be sure.

If the facts are there, then please do me the courtesy of compiling them. Lately, I have not been able to devote as much time to compiling indisputable facts and stats to back up my opinions.
 
Last edited:

JoePgh

Cranky pants and wise acre
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
3,707
Reaction Score
21,582
Geno commented on this subject on the WTIC radio show last evening. He basically agreed with what is being said in this thread. Here are some paraphrases (not exact quotes since I'm working from memory, but close):

  • "Saniya may have scored 20 points, but she gave up at least 30."
  • "We had Bonnie Samuelson totally bottled up on the last play of regulation, so she had to pass. Moriah tried to make a great play to steal the pass. If she had just guarded Amber Orrange, the last shot probably wouldn't have happened."
  • "Our guards, even Moriah, really got exposed. Stanford played a lot without a center, trying to create one-on-one play. It's hard to provide help when you are spread over the whole floor, so there comes a time when people have to be able to guard their man one-on-one, and against Stanford, our guards couldn't do it."
  • "In the past, with Bria / Kelly / Tiffany, one-on-one defense by our guards was always one of our strengths. This year, with the exception of Kia Nurse, that doesn't seem to be the case. All the other guards need to work hard on keeping their man in front of them."
 
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
440
Reaction Score
766
I think what surprised me the most in the Stanford game was our lack of defense. Uconn teams have been famous for their defense but Monday night was some of the worse defense I have ever seen a Geno team play. Stanford was driving past our guards and no one was helping out. They had open shot after open shot and no one seemed to be able to stay in their face. Stewie did have a couple of nice blocks but last year I remember games when Moriah Jefferson would be so disruptive that she would change the game completely. Kia Nurse was impressive on defense but the refs were calling such a tight game that she fouled out. I loved Chong's offense but did not see her play any defense at all.

I know a lot of people thought our problem was on offense but I think we scored enough points to win most games. If we played Uconn defense, this game would not have been close.

I think the defense is a matter of incorporating the new players or players who have a bigger role into the team defensive scheme. Nurse clearly has the quicks and the mindset to play d, but several times during the game tried to go over or through a pick when she should have gone behind and other times failed to pick up and block out when a switch was made. Kiah seemed to get caught midway between stepping out or staying on her man, and the 3 at the end of regulation came from MoJeff leaving her man out of a lack of confidence in KML being able to defend the perimeter.
 

RockyMTblue2

Don't Look Up!
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
22,176
Reaction Score
97,752
Let's compile a list of games played against teams with first team All Americans in their All American seasons and determine how many of these first team All Americans UConn actually shut down. I have not done any research, so it is possible my opinion will be proven totally wrong. I just do not recall any of the truly gifted players being totally shut down by UConn. Maybe rendered ineffective, winning despite good performances. It is even rarer when UConn has faced teams with multiple highly gifted players; Notre Dame, Baylor, Stanford, Tennessee, North Carolina; A very short list to be sure.

If the facts are there, then please do me the courtesy of compiling them. Lately, I have not been able to devote as much time to compiling indisputable facts and stats to back up my opinions.

Gotta ask: since you admit to having no objective evidence for your negative opinion regarding UConn defensive skills, which is diametrically opposed to about every knowledgeable basketball source over the course of nigh on to 2 decades, and have the temerity to ask the rest of us to do the research to back your opinion, here is the question I gotta ask: Why do you follow UConn WCBB?
 

JoePgh

Cranky pants and wise acre
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
3,707
Reaction Score
21,582
Let's compile a list of games played against teams with first team All Americans in their All American seasons and determine how many of these first team All Americans UConn actually shut down. I have not done any research, so it is possible my opinion will be proven totally wrong. I just do not recall any of the truly gifted players being totally shut down by UConn. Maybe rendered ineffective, winning despite good performances. It is even rarer when UConn has faced teams with multiple highly gifted players; Notre Dame, Baylor, Stanford, Tennessee, North Carolina; A very short list to be sure.

If the facts are there, then please do me the courtesy of compiling them. Lately, I have not been able to devote as much time to compiling indisputable facts and stats to back up my opinions.
There are a few notable cases that come to mind just from memory:

1. Kelly Faris holding Alyssa Thomas of Maryland to (as I recall) 6 points with 8 turnovers at a time when Maryland was a Top 10 team.

2. Jayne Appel having zero points against UConn in the 2010 National Championship game.

3. Odyssey Sims making a lot of free throws, but going something like 3-for-15 from the field against UConn in the Baylor game last year.

4. Schoni Schimmel never having a productive game against UConn that I can remember, and many games that were basically busts for her.

5. Chiney Ogwumike being held well below her average (but not completely unproductive) until last year's National Semifinal game was in the bag for UConn. Stef also defended her surprisingly well in the 61-35 game at Stanford two years ago.

6. Kelsey Bone being totally unproductive on both ends of the floor in an early-season game against UConn a couple of years ago.

7. As noted, Jewell Loyd in last years NC game; and Skylar Diggins in many of the games that Notre Dame won (as well as those they lost).

Geno's strategy isn't always to shut down the opponent's star player. Sometimes it is that; other times (as with Candace Parker) it is to let the star get her points and make sure nobody else does any damage. One way or the other, it almost always works.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
968
Reaction Score
2,250
In the last two games against ND, Loyd was shut down; Diggins, in the semifinal. The Louisville kids have not done much against us and the rep of shutting down the best player certainly has some basis in fact.

A overly exaggerated viewpoint in my view.

Exactly what week side help ? all the layups were completely uncontested . Hate to keep picking on Kiah but she looked lost on both ends of the court.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
Gotta ask: since you admit to having no objective evidence for your negative opinion regarding UConn defensive skills, which is diametrically opposed to about every knowledgeable basketball source over the course of nigh on to 2 decades, and have the temerity to ask the rest of us to do the research to back your opinion, here is the question I gotta ask: Why do you follow UConn WCBB?

UConn has had some compelling basketball players over the years that have provided many pleasurable moments to a lifelong basketball fan who would like nothing more than to see the women's game develop and grow.

As far as the opinion expressed here without diligent research, I depend entirely upon a collective memory that remembers players like Sampson, Holdsclaw, Randall, Riley, Appel, N. Ogwumike, Griner, Wiggins, McCoughtry; All Americans who played very well against UConn despite their teams not always winning. I remember a very good Notre Dame team going for 90 points twice in 2001. Tennessee that same year going for 92.

I chose to admit here that I might possibly be wrong, and hoped someone might be motivated to do so. After having briefly perused the archives, I will rephrase my original comment. UConn plays great defense against overmatched opponents. Against equally talented opponents, they have shown an ability to still win a very high percentage, but not because they found a way to shut down the opponents' top players.
 

iamcbs

Buckeye Guest
Joined
Jun 24, 2014
Messages
708
Reaction Score
2,040
UConn has statistically played stellar defense over the years. However, I am more inclined to believe that the stellar defense is more a function of UConn playing overmatched opponents than in actually shutting down great offensive players. How many truly great offensive players have the Huskies played over the years? Among those, how many were totally shut down? Basketball, being a team game, it is not necessary to shut down the star to achieve decisive victory, merely ensure that the rest of the team does not have career games.
Stanford was able to keep UConn's defense honest making weakside help/rotation vulnerable to the easy dish or to the kickout beyond the arc.
How many point did Jewel Loyd score in last year's NC Game? How many points did Skylar Diggins score in the Final Four game the previous year? How many points did Trisha Liston or Elizabeth Williams for Duke Score last year? How many points did Chiney score last year in either game? I could go on and and on if you like. UConn shuts down great offensive players, it's the hallmark of Geno Auriemma coached teams. They don't allow opposing teams to do what they do best offensively. It doesn't matter whether its a Top 5 Team or a Bottom 100 Team. The defense played against Stanford was terrible, Thompson and Orrange got to the basket at will, there was no help side because Kiah Stokes got tentative after picking up her second foul. Karlie and Bonnie Samuelson shot uncontested 3's like they were in their driveway. KML didn't play any D at all, MoJet got grounded by Thompson and Saniya played D like a Portuguese matador. Geno will fix things I'm certain, but Monday night's D wasn't up to typical UConn standards.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
There are a few notable cases that come to mind just from memory:

1. Kelly Faris holding Alyssa Thomas of Maryland to (as I recall) 6 points with 8 turnovers at a time when Maryland was a Top 10 team.

2. Jayne Appel having zero points against UConn in the 2010 National Championship game.

3. Odyssey Sims making a lot of free throws, but going something like 3-for-15 from the field against UConn in the Baylor game last year.

4. Schoni Schimmel never having a productive game against UConn that I can remember, and many games that were basically busts for her.

5. Chiney Ogwumike being held well below her average (but not completely unproductive) until last year's National Semifinal game was in the bag for UConn. Stef also defended her surprisingly well in the 61-35 game at Stanford two years ago.

6. Kelsey Bone being totally unproductive on both ends of the floor in an early-season game against UConn a couple of years ago.

7. As noted, Jewell Loyd in last years NC game; and Skylar Diggins in many of the games that Notre Dame won (as well as those they lost).

Geno's strategy isn't always to shut down the opponent's star player. Sometimes it is that; other times (as with Candace Parker) it is to let the star get her points and make sure nobody else does any damage. One way or the other, it almost always works.

1. Let's give Ms Appel a break in that 2010 championship game. She was not playing at even 50%; Clearly in pain.
2. I appreciate you stepping up here to prove me wrong. Yes, these are All Americans, so you win a good part of the argument. I would be truly humbled, though, if a truly great player was among the names mentioned; A NPOY, A Wade Trophy winner, A Big East Player of the Year. It is interesting that there are no Tennessee Volunteers among those mentioned.
3. As for the bolded quote: EXACTLY. However, you may have used the wrong player and team to make your point because UConn never beat Tennessee in the Parker era and there were five Tennessee players in double figures in one of those games. However, I fully understand and agree with your point.
 

RockyMTblue2

Don't Look Up!
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
22,176
Reaction Score
97,752
UConn has had some compelling basketball players over the years that have provided many pleasurable moments to a lifelong basketball fan who would like nothing more than to see the women's game develop and grow.

As far as the opinion expressed here without diligent research, I depend entirely upon a collective memory that remembers players like Sampson, Holdsclaw, Randall, Riley, Appel, N. Ogwumike, Griner, Wiggins, McCoughtry; All Americans who played very well against UConn despite their teams not always winning. I remember a very good Notre Dame team going for 90 points twice in 2001. Tennessee that same year going for 92.

I chose to admit here that I might possibly be wrong, and hoped someone might be motivated to do so. After having briefly perused the archives, I will rephrase my original comment. UConn plays great defense against overmatched opponents. Against equally talented opponents, they have shown an ability to still win a very high percentage, but not because they found a way to shut down the opponents' top players.

You did not answer my question. But by the by your list pretty much lists the best who did get shut down by UConn. For example, most recently off your list: As was repeatedly pointed out in the 2013 NCAA Final 4, for example, Wiggins has never shown up when it mattered in the NCAAs against UConn and Angel was mostly an angry pouter in UConn games, despite scoring some points (cuz the strategy was to let her and beat them by 20). I will grant you that as long as referees refused to call fouls or walking against Ruth Riley, she did OK against UConn and that was the reason for ND's I NCAA Championship.

No one is motivated to prove your point, which is nonsensical at best and a troller alert at worst.

Could you answer my question? With all your admittedly factually unsupported negativity toward the Huskies, why are you a fan?

So, could you answer my question?
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
856
Reaction Score
1,280
Not a fan Rocky, a watcher from another reality. Compelled to view the Huskies from afar and then descend when weakness is percieved. Perhaps not a troll, but a vulture.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
How many point did Jewel Loyd score in last year's NC Game? How many points did Skylar Diggins score in the Final Four game the previous year? How many points did Trisha Liston or Elizabeth Williams for Duke Score last year? How many points did Chiney score last year in either game? I could go on and and on if you like. UConn shuts down great offensive players, it's the hallmark of Geno Auriemma coached teams. They don't allow opposing teams to do what they do best offensively. It doesn't matter whether its a Top 5 Team or a Bottom 100 Team. The defense played against Stanford was terrible, Thompson and Orrange got to the basket at will, there was no help side because Kiah Stokes got tentative after picking up her second foul. Karlie and Bonnie Samuelson shot uncontested 3's like they were in their driveway. KML didn't play any D at all, MoJet got grounded by Thompson and Saniya played D like a Portuguese matador. Geno will fix things I'm certain, but Monday night's D wasn't up to typical UConn standards.

1. You want to argue that Chiney, Trisha Liston and Elizabeth Williams are great offensive players?
2. I would very much like.
3. You are right, UConn is very good at not allowing overmatched teams to do what they do best offensively. The only game, to my immediate recollection, in which UConn truly outclassed an evenly matched(evenly matched being the operative phrase) team was the December 2009 game against Stanford in Hartford.
4. Fact is that UConn, to their credit, overmatches nearly all of their opponents. They were the better team Monday night, but still lost. It happens sometimes.
5. Question: With all the comments about UConn's defense or lack thereof. could it be more a function of the defensive points of emphasis that allowed Stanford to get to the basket at will? Could UConn have been handcuffed by the rules against handchecking and chipping the cutters? Let's face it, one on one defense is never easy. Keeping a player in front of you is never easy. These ladies are all good ballplayers who rose to this level, in large part, due to their ability to get to the basket against top competition.
 

RockyMTblue2

Don't Look Up!
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
22,176
Reaction Score
97,752
See you in the NCAAs VA...whatever. I figure your T shirt says something like Anyone But UConn since you refuse to answer my question, despite deciding to like my persistence in asking it.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
You did not answer my question. But by the by your list pretty much lists the best who did get shut down by UConn. For example, most recently off your list: As was repeatedly pointed out in the 2013 NCAA Final 4, for example, Wiggins has never shown up when it mattered in the NCAAs against UConn and Angel was mostly an angry pouter in UConn games, despite scoring some points (cuz the strategy was to let her and beat them by 20). I will grant you that as long as referees refused to call fouls or walking against Ruth Riley, she did OK against UConn and that was the reason for ND's I NCAA Championship.

No one is motivated to prove your point, which is nonsensical at best and a troller alert at worst.

Could you answer my question? With all your admittedly factually unsupported negativity toward the Huskies, why are you a fan?

So, could you answer my question?

1. Unsupported negativity? WOW!
2. I seem to recall Wiggins lighting us up in 2008; Sent us home.
3. Your question was answered. Are you suggesting that if I choose to express opinions based entirely on memory that I should keep them to myself?
4. I expect to have enough free time in January to compile a list of UConn's first team All American opponents and their respective stats against UConn. Let's settle this issue with fa
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,931
Reaction Score
3,841
See you in the NCAAs VA...whatever. I figure your T shirt says something like Anyone But UConn since you refuse to answer my question, despite deciding to like my persistence in asking it.


Any response to my posts are greatly appreciated whether I agree or not. It is what this forum is all about.
 

RockyMTblue2

Don't Look Up!
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
22,176
Reaction Score
97,752
My question to you that you refuse to answer, which requires no statistics, is why you are a UConn fan. It is simple. If you refuse to answer it or cannot without choking on it, that's okay VAU. Your silent invocation of the 5th is okay, though transparent. Your sophistic "unsupported negativity Wow" to the contrary notwithstanding: What makes you a UCONN fan? Take all the time you need. After all, it is what this forum is all about.
 

RadyLady

The Glass is Half Full
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
5,643
Reaction Score
5,062
i'm the only one screaming this

But Moriah may not be 100%
I've never known her to disappear like she has for the first half against UCDavis and virtually the entire Stanford game.

well, she didn't sound like herself in the post game either....
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
384
Reaction Score
1,339
Responding to VAUConnFan, for what it's worth, Uconn was able to effectively neutralize Chiney Ogwumike, a truly great player, the last 3 times they played Stanford. In 2012 Chiney was 6-22 for 18 p0ints, the first game last year she was a non-factor and in the semis Chiney only scored 15 points. This seems like a particularly silly discussion. One of the great strengths of Uconn in the past has been their defense against the other team's star players. Unfortunately, we didn't see that on Monday. Hopefully, Geno can right the ship.
 

RadyLady

The Glass is Half Full
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
5,643
Reaction Score
5,062
1. Unsupported negativity? WOW!
2. I seem to recall Wiggins lighting us up in 2008; Sent us home.
3. Your question was answered. Are you suggesting that if I choose to express opinions based entirely on memory that I should keep them to myself?
4. I expect to have enough free time in January to compile a list of UConn's first team All American opponents and their respective stats against UConn. Let's settle this issue with fa

Yeah, there were exceptions, and Wiggins was one. But there are many, many going the other way that makes a statement that we cannot shut down big players kinda questionable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
326
Guests online
1,546
Total visitors
1,872

Forum statistics

Threads
157,946
Messages
4,128,936
Members
10,015
Latest member
skills


Top Bottom