Dawn in retrospect with comments and a question - what constitutes throwing players under the bus?

[cabbie191]

During the discussion about Staley's blaming the loss on the ball, a number of posters said she threw her team under the bus because she stated they couldn't adapt to the Nike ball.

My comments - 1) That's about as BS a reason as I can think of, for all the reasons so well articulated already. 2) That being said, one BYer said that given who Staley is - the reality of her being a black woman in this society, etc - he's willing to give her a pass. I'm in that camp. She has never come across to me, and I don't expect that it will ever change, as eloquent a speaker as other coaches like Geno, Walz, McGraw, and others. She has a different upbringing that gives her a rougher edge and if it hasn't been smoothed over, I'm okay with that.

My question - what constitutes throwing a player or team under the bus? Personally, I think it is one of those things that are almost impossible to define, being something akin to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" or "I know it when I see it".

Geno is famous for his sarcastic quips - 1) After the loss to Baylor last year, calling the team dummies for calling a time out late in the game when down by 17. 2) from 2019 regarding Anna: “You know how some guys (shoot) 0-for-the-game or 0-for-the-week, well she is 0-for-America. She hasn’t made a shot since she has been in this country. They should stop saying she is from Poland. People in Poland are starting to get upset.” 3) When he said Taurasi screwed up in the U-18 game against Brazil because she "only" scored 26 points instead of the 30 he told her the team would need.

We generally accept as UConn faithful that these barbs are meant to motivate and not hurt. And I don't think these examples are actually in the same league as "they couldn't adjust". But it's pretty clear that fans of other teams who don't care about UConn can also cite these quotes as throwing players under the bus.

So I throw the question out there - what for you defines a coach's comment as throwing someone under the bus?

 

[Vowelguy]

The ball excuse was dumb, but it absolutely does not qualify as throwing the team under the bus. More the opposite, as it tries to deflect attention away from the team.

Throwing under the bus is generally blaming a specific person(s), by name, for the team's failures.

 

[cancontent]

During the discussion about Staley's blaming the loss on the ball, a number of posters said she threw her team under the bus because she stated they couldn't adapt to the Nike ball.

My comments - 1) That's about as BS a reason as I can think of, for all the reasons so well articulated already. 2) That being said, one BYer said that given who Staley is - the reality of her being a black woman in this society, etc - he's willing to give her a pass. I'm in that camp. She has never come across to me, and I don't expect that it will ever change, as eloquent a speaker as other coaches like Geno, Walz, McGraw, and others. She has a different upbringing that gives her a rougher edge and if it hasn't been smoothed over, I'm okay with that.

My question - what constitutes throwing a player or team under the bus? Personally, I think it is one of those things that are almost impossible to define, being something akin to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" or "I know it when I see it".

Geno is famous for his sarcastic quips - 1) After the loss to Baylor last year, calling the team dummies for calling a time out late in the game when down by 17. 2) from 2019 regarding Anna: “You know how some guys (shoot) 0-for-the-game or 0-for-the-week, well she is 0-for-America. She hasn’t made a shot since she has been in this country. They should stop saying she is from Poland. People in Poland are starting to get upset.” 3) When he said Taurasi screwed up in the U-18 game against Brazil because she "only" scored 26 points instead of the 30 he told her the team would need.

We generally accept as UConn faithful that these barbs are meant to motivate and not hurt. And I don't think these examples are actually in the same league as "they couldn't adjust". But it's pretty clear that fans of other teams who don't care about UConn can also cite these quotes as throwing players under the bus.

So I throw the question out there - what for you defines a coach's comment as throwing someone under the bus?

I get and bristle at the point at the same time. First, as a black woman, I've never been big on chalking it up to just colour or upbringing. It's just as frustrating to be told "You speak so well for your background" (which I have and continue to be depending on who I talk to) as much as it is to hear Coach Dawn isn't as eloquent because of a rougher upbringing.

Yes, her upbringing may not have been middle-class, but aren't Coach Geno and Coach Muffet also from the Philly area as well? They're usually celebrated for it because of the hard-working, blue collar mentality this area is known for.

I've got friends in South Jersey and Philly who don't speak eloquently. They're not black, were raised middle class, kids went to parochial (Catholic) school, etc. I really don't think it's fair to use that viewpoint solely to provide a her with a pass on what she said.

 

[AmeriConn]

The ball excuse was dumb, but it absolutely does not qualify as throwing the team under the bus. More the opposite, as it tries to deflect attention away from the team.

Throwing under the bus is generally blaming a specific person(s), by name, for the team's failures.

Agree! Having said that, I wanted to “bounce” something off you guys. Do you think Dawn would like to try the Spalding ball?

 

[Geesworld]

This is a great post!

Throwing players under the Bus is done by all coaches. The greater the team success the more its tolerated.
That includes our own Beloved Geno.

I believe anything that's said publicly that's not complimentary to your players is a definite under the bus moment.
Tone also plays a part. With the way the media cycle and Social Media critique and over analyze these players you have to be careful what you throw in the wind.

 

[MainefanSC]

If you want to see flagrant examples of "throwing the team under the bus", look at most any of Holly Warlick"s post game interviews.

I do not agree with some of Dawn's comments but I do not see her throwing her team under the bus.

I had great respect for Dawn over the years, but some of her recent actions ( the banner, the Nike ball etc.) are a bit disturbing.

When she began to get numerous "premium" players and couldn't bring home the prize, I question her coaching ability.

I am happy for her successes and wish her no harm. She has been good for the sport since being a player and then a coach. She has brought the game some parity and will continue to be right there, for the for seeable future. Good luck and good health to her and her team. Just don't whine when we beat you.

 

[shiverz45]

The ball excuse was dumb, but it absolutely does not qualify as throwing the team under the bus. More the opposite, as it tries to deflect attention away from the team.

Throwing under the bus is generally blaming a specific person(s), by name, for the team's failures.

Exactly. I made the comment earlier that I hope she made the comment in order to protect her players. Coaching had nothing to do with turnovers, missed free throws, and layups. If she were the type to throw her players under the bus the opportunity was there.

 

[Gurleyman]

Exactly. I made the comment earlier that I hope she made the comment in order to protect her players. Coaching had nothing to do with turnovers, missed free throws, and layups. If she were the type to throw her players under the bus the opportunity was there.

I think there’s some truth to that. She shines the spotlight of controversy on herself a little bit and lets the players off the hook (not that there’s really a “hook” - it was a 1 vs. 2 game on the road, not Virginia losing to UMBC in a 1-16 game).

Geno famously got himself in “hot water” with the quote about plenty of Duke grads working in restaurants prior to a big road game, and the Cameron Crazies were all over him. That sort of took some of the heat off his players, who went on to win that game (which was also 1 vs. 2 if I recall right). I still think that was on purpose - but maybe it was just Geno being Geno and it was a happy accident.

 

[MSGRET]

Exactly. I made the comment earlier that I hope she made the comment in order to protect her players. Coaching had nothing to do with turnovers, missed free throws, and layups. If she were the type to throw her players under the bus the opportunity was there.

I don't think Dawn threw anyone under the bus. If you want to see a coach throw their team under a bus there are two that come to mind, they are Holly and Muffet, both are not coaching anymore.

 

[topogigio]

Dawn has always been a sore loser and whinner when it comes to team losses. She has never accepted any of the blame, as a player or coach. Can't blame her upbringing, color, culture. competitiveness on any of it. It is just who she is! We all know people like that.

 

[Zinethar]

Personally I thought she threw the basketball under the bus .

 

[huskyd]

During the discussion about Staley's blaming the loss on the ball, a number of posters said she threw her team under the bus because she stated they couldn't adapt to the Nike ball.

My comments - 1) That's about as BS a reason as I can think of, for all the reasons so well articulated already. 2) That being said, one BYer said that given who Staley is - the reality of her being a black woman in this society, etc - he's willing to give her a pass. I'm in that camp. She has never come across to me, and I don't expect that it will ever change, as eloquent a speaker as other coaches like Geno, Walz, McGraw, and others. She has a different upbringing that gives her a rougher edge and if it hasn't been smoothed over, I'm okay with that.

My question - what constitutes throwing a player or team under the bus? Personally, I think it is one of those things that are almost impossible to define, being something akin to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" or "I know it when I see it".

Geno is famous for his sarcastic quips - 1) After the loss to Baylor last year, calling the team dummies for calling a time out late in the game when down by 17. 2) from 2019 regarding Anna: “You know how some guys (shoot) 0-for-the-game or 0-for-the-week, well she is 0-for-America. She hasn’t made a shot since she has been in this country. They should stop saying she is from Poland. People in Poland are starting to get upset.” 3) When he said Taurasi screwed up in the U-18 game against Brazil because she "only" scored 26 points instead of the 30 he told her the team would need.

We generally accept as UConn faithful that these barbs are meant to motivate and not hurt. And I don't think these examples are actually in the same league as "they couldn't adjust". But it's pretty clear that fans of other teams who don't care about UConn can also cite these quotes as throwing players under the bus.

So I throw the question out there - what for you defines a coach's comment as throwing someone under the bus?

Regarding being a black female coach: I'd argue that it's an advantage likely to attract black athletes in a place like Columbia. I always wonder why kids go to certain schools, what in particular attracts them. Here in Maryland we have DC, which is a black cultural bastion. It's a good place to feel connected, to enjoy culture, to meet prospective partners. I'm pretty sure it's not Brenda. (snark) Some schools have a great academic rep (Stanford) and some a big-time sports tradition (ND). UConn has Geno.

 

[cabbie191]

I get and bristle at the point at the same time. First, as a black woman, I've never been big on chalking it up to just colour or upbringing. It's just as frustrating to be told "You speak so well for your background" (which I have and continue to be depending on who I talk to) as much as it is to hear Coach Dawn isn't as eloquent because of a rougher upbringing.

Yes, her upbringing may not have been middle-class, but aren't Coach Geno and Coach Muffet also from the Philly area as well? They're usually celebrated for it because of the hard-working, blue collar mentality this area is known for.

I've got friends in South Jersey and Philly who don't speak eloquently. They're not black, were raised middle class, kids went to parochial (Catholic) school, etc. I really don't think it's fair to use that viewpoint solely to provide a her with a pass on what she said.

Cancontent - thank you for your response.

To be clear, my willingness to give her a pass wasn't really based solely on her race. I was referring to another poster who listed more than a single reason for his/her statement, which is why I included "etc." in my statement.

And to be more expansive about where I come from: I am now a somewhat elderly white guy - grew up in a well to do suburb of Hartford and knew only two blacks growing up. One was a high school teacher, the other a colleague of my mom's who helped bring art programs to Hartford's inner city schools.

Over the years, as I have now been fortunate to know many more persons of color, including my niece's husband, I have also come to understand that so much of what I take for granted, in terms of my lack of fear to drive almost anywhere in the country, is not so easily taken for granted by others. I recall vividly being at a conference with an AME minister who described that when he drives home to Mississippi, he won't ever stop at a rest area once he crosses into the state out of an abundance of caution.

And I have come to be very sensitive to what it means to be female. My wife, a pastor, has been sexually harassed in two jobs; I have women in my family who have experienced trauma ranging from sexual abuse from a friend's older brother to an out and out rape by a professor while studying abroad. Even before we were married, I was acutely aware of my wife's absolute alertness being out and about.

So I look at the totality of what it means to be a black woman in our society and I am willing to concede graciousness. Yes, both Geno and McGraw grew up in Philly and at least in Geno's case, from a hard scrabble family in terms of economics. But they had the benefit of being from the majority race, and Geno of course is male. So they aren't equivalent IMO.

 

[MooseJaw]

During the discussion about Staley's blaming the loss on the ball, a number of posters said she threw her team under the bus because she stated they couldn't adapt to the Nike ball.

My comments - 1) That's about as BS a reason as I can think of, for all the reasons so well articulated already. 2) That being said, one BYer said that given who Staley is - the reality of her being a black woman in this society, etc - he's willing to give her a pass. I'm in that camp. She has never come across to me, and I don't expect that it will ever change, as eloquent a speaker as other coaches like Geno, Walz, McGraw, and others. She has a different upbringing that gives her a rougher edge and if it hasn't been smoothed over, I'm okay with that.

My question - what constitutes throwing a player or team under the bus? Personally, I think it is one of those things that are almost impossible to define, being something akin to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" or "I know it when I see it".

Geno is famous for his sarcastic quips - 1) After the loss to Baylor last year, calling the team dummies for calling a time out late in the game when down by 17. 2) from 2019 regarding Anna: “You know how some guys (shoot) 0-for-the-game or 0-for-the-week, well she is 0-for-America. She hasn’t made a shot since she has been in this country. They should stop saying she is from Poland. People in Poland are starting to get upset.” 3) When he said Taurasi screwed up in the U-18 game against Brazil because she "only" scored 26 points instead of the 30 he told her the team would need.

We generally accept as UConn faithful that these barbs are meant to motivate and not hurt. And I don't think these examples are actually in the same league as "they couldn't adjust". But it's pretty clear that fans of other teams who don't care about UConn can also cite these quotes as throwing players under the bus.

So I throw the question out there - what for you defines a coach's comment as throwing someone under the bus?

You mentioned it in your post, I can't really describe it, but heck I know it when I hear it or see it. A lot has to do with tone and content. As you said Geno is mostly motivational either through jab or tongue in check. I didn't think Dawn was throwing her team under the bus as much as she was shocked and embarrassed about the loss. She may not have known what to say that wouldn't come back to bite her, ironically exactly what has happened on the BY. I wonder how or if SC nation feels about it.

 

[Carnac]

During the discussion about Staley's blaming the loss on the ball, a number of posters said she threw her team under the bus because she stated they couldn't adapt to the Nike ball.

My comments - 1) That's about as BS a reason as I can think of, for all the reasons so well articulated already. 2) That being said, one BYer said that given who Staley is - the reality of her being a black woman in this society, etc - he's willing to give her a pass. I'm in that camp. She has never come across to me, and I don't expect that it will ever change, as eloquent a speaker as other coaches like Geno, Walz, McGraw, and others. She has a different upbringing that gives her a rougher edge and if it hasn't been smoothed over, I'm okay with that.

My question - what constitutes throwing a player or team under the bus? Personally, I think it is one of those things that are almost impossible to define, being something akin to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" or "I know it when I see it".

Geno is famous for his sarcastic quips - 1) After the loss to Baylor last year, calling the team dummies for calling a time out late in the game when down by 17. 2) from 2019 regarding Anna: “You know how some guys (shoot) 0-for-the-game or 0-for-the-week, well she is 0-for-America. She hasn’t made a shot since she has been in this country. They should stop saying she is from Poland. People in Poland are starting to get upset.” 3) When he said Taurasi screwed up in the U-18 game against Brazil because she "only" scored 26 points instead of the 30 he told her the team would need.

We generally accept as UConn faithful that these barbs are meant to motivate and not hurt. And I don't think these examples are actually in the same league as "they couldn't adjust". But it's pretty clear that fans of other teams who don't care about UConn can also cite these quotes as throwing players under the bus.

So I throw the question out there - what for you defines a coach's comment as throwing someone under the bus?

Just watch any Brenda Frese (Maryland) post game presser of a game they lose.

 

[cancontent]

Cancontent - thank you for your response.

To be clear, my willingness to give her a pass wasn't really based solely on her race. I was referring to another poster who listed more than a single reason for his/her statement, which is why I included "etc." in my statement.

And to be more expansive about where I come from: I am now a somewhat elderly white guy - grew up in a well to do suburb of Hartford and knew only two blacks growing up. One was a high school teacher, the other a colleague of my mom's who helped bring art programs to Hartford's inner city schools.

Over the years, as I have now been fortunate to know many more persons of color, including my niece's husband, I have also come to understand that so much of what I take for granted, in terms of my lack of fear to drive almost anywhere in the country, is not so easily taken for granted by others. I recall vividly being at a conference with an AME minister who described that when he drives home to Mississippi, he won't ever stop at a rest area once he crosses into the state out of an abundance of caution.

And I have come to be very sensitive to what it means to be female. My wife, a pastor, has been sexually harassed in two jobs; I have women in my family who have experienced trauma ranging from sexual abuse from a friend's older brother to an out and out rape by a relative's professor while studying abroad. Even before we were married, I was acutely aware of my wife's absolute alertness being out and about.

So I look at the totality of what it means to be a black woman in our society and I am willing to concede graciousness. Yes, both Geno and McGraw grew up in Philly and at least in Geno's case, from a hard scrabble family in terms of economics. But they had the benefit of being from the majority race, and Geno of course is male. So they aren't equivalent IMO.

Cabbie191 - I appreciate your response as well. I did understand you were referring more to someone else's comment. My reaction is more to fact that this logic is used in general, not from you specifically. I should have noted that when replying.

And, like you, I've taken a lot of things for granted. Fortunately, I was raised somewhat "colour-blind" and didn't appreciate the challenges of being black until much later in life. My family and our friends were of various backgrounds (heck I know some basic Croatian phrases - go figure LOL). Sometimes it's been the reverse for me where I've had to fight the perception of not being "black enough".

There are cases/situations where someone's cultural background does impact how they speak or interpret things. I don't believe should be applicable in this situation. But it's also good to have these discussions because that is how we continue moving forward.

Cheers my friend.

 

[itsasport]

This basketball thing is bizarre, I assumed that every NCAAW team would use a ball with the same characteristics.. Is the ball determined by the individual team or league?How many teams use different brands.

The bottom line is that the coaching staff is responsible for preparing their players for each upcoming game- including having the guards practice with a different ball.

UConn players must have used non-Wilson balls. this season. Maybe I missed it, but II don't remember Geno, or any other coacch complaining about using different basketballs.

 

[Centerstream]

Swerve time. Who decides what brand of basketball is used for each game?
Do conferences use different brands for their tournament?
Does the NCAA use different brands during the tournament?

Sorry @itsasport for my plagiarism of your post, I was typing this post when you posted yours.

 

[MainefanSC]

I think there’s some truth to that. She shines the spotlight of controversy on herself a little bit and lets the players off the hook (not that there’s really a “hook” - it was a 1 vs. 2 game on the road, not Virginia losing to UMBC in a 1-16 game).

Geno famously got himself in “hot water” with the quote about plenty of Duke grads working in restaurants prior to a big road game, and the Cameron Crazies were all over him. That sort of took some of the heat off his players, who went on to win that game (which was also 1 vs. 2 if I recall right). I still think that was on purpose - but maybe it was just Geno being Geno and it was a happy accident.

Remember that game well. It was Feb 1, 2003. Duke was #1 & UConn was #2. My grandson was born that day and Columbia space shuttle disaster happened as well.

 

[Bama fan]

Personally I thought she threw the basketball under the bus .

Let us be perfectly clear on this point. she threw the Nike basketball under the bus, but spared the Wilson!

 

[TC22]

You mentioned it in your post, I can't really describe it, but heck I know it when I hear it or see it. A lot has to do with tone and content. As you said Geno is mostly motivational either through jab or tongue in check. I didn't think Dawn was throwing her team under the bus as much as she was shocked and embarrassed about the loss. She may not have known what to say that wouldn't come back to bite her, ironically exactly what has happened on the BY. I wonder how or if SC nation feels about it.

Gamecock Nation knows Dawn and has no problem with what she said. I would assume most teams have racks of different types of balls that they practice with and we do and did. Dawn doesn't just say stuff... I guarantee Henny will learn the difference between a Nike ball and a Wilson ball now, even though I'm sure Dawn has tried to make that point. It's kind of dumb when you think about it that there's not a uniform basketball. If you've ever coached or played you know that they are all different. Dawn obviously prefers the Wilson ball because I'm sure she could use whatever she wanted, especially since it's not UA. Gamecock fans all love Dawn like you all love Geno and we all think Geno throws his players under the bus all the time. Just a different perspective. Great game. You have Geno's next great guard for sure.

 

[Zinethar]

Just FYI the NCAA site lists the Wilson ball as the official ball. I was a bit surprised.

 

[shiverz45]

Swerve time. Who decides what brand of basketball is used for each game?
Do conferences use different brands for their tournament?
Does the NCAA use different brands during the tournament?

Sorry @itsasport for my plagiarism of your post, I was typing this post when you posted yours.

The home team decides what ball to use. Wilson is the official brand of the NCAA tournament.