Danny doesn't seem to win the second game of any tournament. | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Danny doesn't seem to win the second game of any tournament.

8893

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What? Who’s blaming Ollie? Just pointing out how reliant we’ve been on players not starting their careers with Hurley as their coach as freshmen. An observation but if you want a pissing contest you’re on your own. I think you know better.
Hurley re-recruited both of them last season and expressly said he preferred them to anyone in the portal.

One was the BE Defensive POY and the other was the BE Sixth Man of the Year.

It was his choice. I don’t blame him for it; but I don’t blame anyone else either.

Just pointing out facts. Don’t let them get in the way of your narrative though.
 

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Hurley re-recruited both of them last season and expressly said he preferred them to anyone in the portal.

One was the BE Defensive POY and the other was the BE Sixth Man of the Year.

It was his choice. I don’t blame him for it; but I don’t blame anyone else either.

Just pointing out facts. Don’t let them get in the way of your narrative though.
You do want a pissing contest. I made a simple observation that those four critical pieces to our performance didn’t start life as UConn frosh under Hurley. Is that inaccurate? It’s more a fact than any of your claims that you know better than Hurley how manages end game. I’m far less critical of Hurley than you are. Don’t let that get in the way of your narrative.
 
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You’re taking the coincidence of a the timing of a very few games to make some sort of point about his coaching which is the only thing that you can possibly be saying otherwise there is no point. He coached great last night whether or not it was game two of the season or game two of a small field league tournament that we narrowly lost to a team ranked ahead of ours.
No. I basically looked at every tourney we played in under Hurley, the exception being last year's NCAA. I also said I wasn't positive that my observation was correct. But it seems to be the case. Yes, it is a small sample size.

As I said. It's just something I noticed.
 

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You do want a pissing contest. I made a simple observation that those four critical pieces to our performance didn’t start life as UConn frosh under Hurley. Is that inaccurate? It’s more a fact than any of your claims that you know better than Hurley how manages end game. I’m far less critical of Hurley than you are. Don’t let that get in the way of your narrative.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make at this point.

My point was that Hurley chose every single player on this roster. If you consider four of them to be pulled off the trash heap—which I don’t—it is Hurley who made that choice.

I understand that you are reluctant to evaluate or question any of Hurley’s decisions. But your slip is showing when you go out of your way to characterize two players you don’t like as “Ollie holdovers,” which was not meant to be a compliment and was obviously meant to distance Hurley from them.
 

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I have no idea what point you are trying to make at this point.

My point was that Hurley chose every single player on this roster. If you consider four of them to be pulled off the trash heap—which I don’t—it is Hurley who made that choice.

I understand that you are reluctant to evaluate or question any of Hurley’s decisions. But your slip is showing when you go out of your way to characterize two players you don’t like as “Ollie holdovers,” which was not meant to be a compliment and was obviously meant to distance Hurley from them.
You are off the deep end. You are saying something about what I said I never said. Get it through your thick head, thicker than I ever thought of you, that I said nothing about trash heaps. it has zero to do with criticizing Hurley and for the record, your opinion of his coaching moves are just opinion so don’t go congratulating yourself on being a great coach because a kid made a shot he misses 65% of the time. Peace and love.
 
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I wonder if Jackson turns into a PG and we get a true 3/4 in the position. He has the speed, handles, and vision to get the ball to shooters
This seems like a strong possibility, especially since hurley has said in the past that Jackson would probably go into the NBA as a point guard.
 

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You are off the deep end. You are saying something about what I said I never said. Get it through your thick head, thicker than I ever thought of you, that I said nothing about trash heaps. it has zero to do with criticizing Hurley and for the record, your opinion of his coaching moves are just opinion so don’t go congratulating yourself on being a great coach because a kid made a shot he misses 65% of the time. Peace and love.
What was your point in calling Polley and Whaley “Ollie holdovers”?

I am not a coach and am not congratulating myself. You accused me of second guessing. To put the lie to your misuse of the term, I brought up my PRIOR statements to the same exact effect in the same exact situation when the change to which I referred was made and produced a different result.

I am sorry this is causing you such distress.
 
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When you get competitive and play other competitive teams the margin for error is small. We make just enough mistakes and misplays to leave us short. Missed bunnies, feet out of bounds, too many missed foul shots…and mismanagement of 10 seconds in the final minute yielded the loss. DH has to tighten up his management in the last 2 minutes. The players have to finish scoring opportunities.
 

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Two years doesn’t give you a good barometer. He made it past two games with other teams. I have been a DH doubter since day one and still have reservations but last night was not on him - I do not like the fact he only used basically 6 players- the game was close but UConn should have won. When your two All NBE players vastly underachieved offensively it doesn’t make a hill any shorter. Up next is the Dance, let’s hope everyone has their best shoes on.
 

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What was your point in calling Polley and Whaley “Ollie holdovers”?

I am not a coach and am not congratulating myself. You accused me of second guessing. To put the lie to your misuse of the term, I brought up my PRIOR statements to the same exact effect in the same exact situation when the change to which I referred was made and produced a different result.

I am sorry this is causing you such distress.
No distress. You are screwed up today. It was a simple statement that 4 of our top players started out not under Hurley and two of those were under Ollie. They could’ve been under Jim Calhoun for all I care. If I’m not mistaken they were here before Hurley. That’s all I said. I didn’t say Hurley didn’t want them or the transfers . Obviously he wanted them.

If you want to get into semantics about the meaning of “ second-guessing” be my guest. Using the same thought more than once as a suggestion that somebody might be better served by doing something you think makes more sense than what they are doing is, well, repeating the same thought. I guess that isn’t “second-guessing”. Maybe third guessing. Go Huskies.
 

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I have to shake my head at the Ollie holdover BS. Both Polley and Whaley played far more games and years with DH vs KO. If DH didn’t want them or better yet if either player didn’t care for DH they would be gone. BTW, the way CV played and how Polley and IW turned out - they weren’t terrible recruits.
Kevin is in Florida and doing something that feels good to him, UConn is heading for the dance - can we not forge ahead.
 

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No distress. You are screwed up today. It was a simple statement that 4 of our top players started out not under Hurley and two of those were under Ollie. They could’ve been under Jim Calhoun for all I care. If I’m not mistaken they were here before Hurley. That’s all I said. I didn’t say Hurley didn’t want them or the transfers . Obviously he wanted them.

If you want to get into semantics about the meaning of “ second-guessing” be my guest. Using the same thought more than once as a suggestion that somebody might be better served by doing something you think makes more sense than what they are doing is, well, repeating the same thought. I guess that isn’t “second-guessing”. Maybe third guessing. Go Huskies.
I am screwed up because—like many others here and elsewhere—I simply questioned whether we might have had a different result doing the same thing we did last time in the same situation, which, in fact, led to a different result?

Ok. Glad we got that squared away.
 
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I’ve said repeatedly that Martin’s ceiling is higher than I appreciated and I am impressed by his improvement, especially as a shooter. And I agree that he has established himself as the third-best offensive option.

I still don’t think he’s the answer on offense night-in, night-out; and as I noted, last night he, Sanogo and Jackson all shot essentially the same percentage. Martin was more efficient because of his threes.
Seems like Martin has to have several plays for him early in each game. Get him going! His effort is supreme if you do that. We continue to force, at times the ball, into Sanago. We are very predictable. Several late turnovers from that activity hurt in this game and many games. Whaley needs to look for his shot more and put up 6 - 9 points a game for us to win. He is a good shooter but, like Jackson, looks to pass too much. Everybody has to be somewhat of a threat for us to go into the third round of the NCAA's.
 
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I don’t think we have the same understanding of the term “second guessing.”

I have always understood it to mean criticizing a decision in hindsight.

I’ve been on record about that decision since the start of the season, made the observation in real time at the last Nova game, and credited Kimani for realizing he needed to change the lineup. He did. We won.

Hurley didn’t. We lost. If he does the same next time and we lose is it second guessing again, even though it’s being said well in advance—again?
This is revisionist history, because Kimani didn't do anything differently than Hurley. You can go back and read all the posts after the Villanova win about how Kimani waited way too long to get Polley back in the game and how he should have done it sooner. But since Polley hit a big shot and we won the game it all gets glossed over.
 

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This is revisionist history, because Kimani didn't do anything differently than Hurley. You can go back and read all the posts after the Villanova win about how Kimani waited way too long to get Polley back in the game and how he should have done it sooner. But since Polley hit a big shot and we won the game it all gets glossed over.
I wrote many of those posts; I don’t need to review them. I was at the game and said it in real time at the three minute mark, so yes I thought he should have done it sooner. But to Kimani’s credit he realized it, made the change and drew up a play to get Polley a shot, which he hit.

What is getting glossed over?
 
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I wrote many of those posts; I don’t need to review them. I was at the game and said it in real time at the three minute mark, so yes I thought he should have done it sooner. But to Kimani’s credit he realized it, made the change and drew and a play to get Polley a shot, which he hit.

What is getting glossed over?
The idea that Kimani did something different from Hurley to win us the Villanova game like you keep saying. Since Polley hit a shot and we won the fact that he waited too long to get Polley back in wasn't an issue and he gets praised.

In the first Nova game Polley was subbed out with 3:35 to go and wasn't subbed back in until the 31 second mark when he hit the 3. Last night he was subbed out with 4:06 to go and was subbed back in with 15 seconds to go. Yet one coach is praised for his choice and one is criticized
 

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The idea that Kimani did something different from Hurley to win us the Villanova game like you keep saying. Since Polley hit a shot and we won the fact that he waited too long to get Polley back in wasn't an issue and he gets praised.

In the first Nova game Polley was subbed out with 3:35 to go and wasn't subbed back in until the 31 second mark when he hit the 3. Last night he was subbed out with 4:06 to go and was subbed back in with 15 seconds to go. Yet one coach is praised for his choice and one is criticized
It was the second Nova game when Polley hit the shot and we won. Last night was the third.

Kimani pulled him later and put him back in sooner, AND he drew up a play to get him the shot we needed. It worked.

Hurley pulled him sooner and it was too late when he put him back in. I haven’t gone back and reviewed those 15 seconds but I don’t think Polley got a shot; wasn’t it AJax? Is that who you want shooting a three?

This has gotten beaten to a pancake of a dead horse at this point. My premise is a simple one and I’m surprised it’s so controversial here: when we are trailing a close game our starting lineup does not give us our best chance to win because it is too limited offensively. You have to get a shooter in the game, and it should be sooner than the last 15 seconds. How much sooner depends on how much you are down.

I have given tons of credit to Hurley for managing this unbalanced roster and I have repeatedly said that his gamble has paid off most of the time. I am simply talking about a specific end of game situation when I think it needs to be re-examined.

He is getting better, but he is still a very stubborn and predictable guy with his game plans, as last night showed. The announcers mocked him all night for sticking to his plan of letting Samuels and Slater beat us, because they did.

But the reality is they are a better team with a better coach, and their third, fourth, fifth and sixth players are better than ours, even if our two best cancel each other out—which on one level is what happened last night. It was like a chess game where we each neutralized each other‘s two best players. If you told me before the game that that was the plan, I would have expected a much worse result for us. So there’s that.
 

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I am screwed up because—like many others here and elsewhere—I simply questioned whether we might have had a different result doing the same thing we did last time in the same situation, which, in fact, led to a different result?

Ok. Glad we got that squared away.
You win. The kid made a shot and you’re smarter than the coach. If he bricked it than it follows you would be wrong. That’s is the logic you are using to support a strategy that maybe at best works a third of the time. Isn’t the bigger problem for this team (if winning 23 games with unreliable shooters is really a problem) that we are in a lot of close games because the choice is about sitting better defenders in favor of kids who might or might not be on that day? It’s kind of why we have so many close games at the end. Looking at end game blows past the overall issues with the team. We haven’t even touched on a guy like Akok who potentially on O has the jumper to help and at least shot block some if not defend great so maybe the choice between a Whaley and Polley wouldn‘t be the main option. This team is maybe one more consistent shooter away from both drawing some attention away from Sanogo and having more breathing room the last few minutes. The margin of error for almost every BE team between winning and losing is paper thin. UConn has lots of company.
 
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It was the second Nova game when Polley hit the shot and we won. Last night was the third.

Kimani pulled him later and put him back in sooner, AND he drew up a play to get him the shot we needed. It worked.

Hurley pulled him sooner and it was too late when he put him back in. I haven’t gone back and reviewed those 15 seconds but I don’t think Polley got a shot; wasn’t it AJax? Is that who you want shooting a three?

This has gotten beaten to a pancake of a dead horse at this point. My premise is a simple one and I’m surprised it’s so controversial here: when we are trailing a close game our starting lineup does not give us our best chance to win because it is too limited offensively. You have to get a shooter in the game, and it should be sooner than the last 15 seconds. How much sooner depends on how much you are down.

I have given tons of credit to Hurley for managing this unbalanced roster and I have repeatedly said that his gamble has paid off most of the time. I am simply talking about a specific end of game situation when I think it needs to be re-examined.

He is getting better, but he is still a very stubborn and predictable guy with his game plans, as last night showed. The announcers mocked him all night for sticking to his plan of letting Samuels and Slater beat us, because they did.

But the reality is they are a better team with a better coach, and their third, fourth, fifth and sixth players are better than ours, even if our two best cancel each other out—which on one level is what happened last night. It was like a chess game where we each neutralized each other‘s two best players. If you told me before the game that that was the plan, I would have expected a much worse result for us. So there’s that.
Those are when the numbers are from, no idea why I called it the first. I think I've just completely erased the road game from my mind

Your premise is not controversial, we need Polley and Hawkins in more to get shooting on the floor at almost all times and especially when we're behind. I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is you praising Kimani and criticizing Hurley for making the same decision with different results. The reality is the decision was wrong both times but only one gets criticized

If your argument is really that those additional 40 seconds are a substantial difference I have nothing else to say, that's beyond stupid. They were subbed in for a final offensive possession in both games and that's it
 

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Those are when the numbers are from, no idea why I called it the first. I think I've just completely erased the road game from my mind

Your premise is not controversial, we need Polley and Hawkins in more to get shooting on the floor at almost all times and especially when we're behind. I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is you praising Kimani and criticizing Hurley for making the same decision with different results. The reality is the decision was wrong both times but only one gets criticized

If your argument is really that those additional 40 seconds are a substantial difference I have nothing else to say, that's beyond stupid. They were subbed in for a final offensive possession in both games and that's it
Ok, we are making progress here!

We are in agreement that the decision was wrong both times, which was my initial point to @cohenzone in this thread.

The other point is that Kimani recognized it sooner and corrected it in time for it to make a difference. Hurley didn’t, and I’d say it’s made worse because he didn’t learn from the experience Kimani had in the second game.

The amount of time for it to make a material difference will vary by the situation, but Kimani did make the adjustment in enough time. What I was asking about last night—and I honestly don’t remember—is whether Polley was able to get shot in those final 15 seconds. If not, that kind of speaks for itself as to whether his re-entry was timely enough to make a difference. If it led to an AJax three point shot, which I seem to remember, I would say that’s probably the shot Wright wanted us to take.
 
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Ok, we are making progress here!

We are in agreement that the decision was wrong both times, which was my initial point to @cohenzone in this thread.

The other point is that Kimani recognized it sooner and corrected it in time for it to make a difference. Hurley didn’t, and I’d say it’s made worse because he didn’t learn from the experience Kimani had in the second game.

The amount of time for it to make a material difference will vary by the situation, but Kimani did make the adjustment in enough time. What I was asking about last night—and I honestly don’t remember—is whether Polley was able to get shot in those final 15 seconds. If not, that kind of speaks for itself as to whether his re-entry was timely enough to make a difference. If it led to an AJax three point shot, which I seem to remember, I would say that’s probably the shot Wright wanted us to take.
Yeah but that's kind of my point, they were both inserted for an offensive possession and the play that was drawn up worked whether it was a Polley 3 in the win or a Jackson 3 in the loss. They hit both shots, is it only a good thing if Polley takes the shot and bad if he's just drawing the defense's attention?

Polley was going in for the next offensive possession in both games. Kimani didn't recognize anything sooner, in the win we got a rebound with 26 seconds left. In the loss yesterday Sanogo missed the rebound with 29 seconds left and we didn't get the ball back until later. That's why we lost, not because Polley didn't go in a few seconds earlier
 

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Ok, we are making progress here!

We are in agreement that the decision was wrong both times, which was my initial point to @cohenzone in this thread.

The other point is that Kimani recognized it sooner and corrected it in time for it to make a difference. Hurley didn’t, and I’d say it’s made worse because he didn’t learn from the experience Kimani had in the second game.

The amount of time for it to make a material difference will vary by the situation, but Kimani did make the adjustment in enough time. What I was asking about last night—and I honestly don’t remember—is whether Polley was able to get shot in those final 15 seconds. If not, that kind of speaks for itself as to whether his re-entry was timely enough to make a difference. If it led to an AJax three point shot, which I seem to remember, I would say that’s probably the shot Wright wanted us to take.
So long as you stand by that strategy regardless of whether or not the a shot goes in, than fine. In hoops, a shot going in makes a coach look good. The real issue for this team is pretty much consistent throughout the game, lack of enough reliable shooters and defenders combined in each individual. It impacts everything and contributes to close games. The difference between our better defenders and our better shooting subs is pretty wide.
 

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So long as you stand by that strategy regardless of whether or not the a shot goes in, than fine. In hoops, a shot going in makes a coach look good. The real issue for this team is pretty much consistent throughout the game, lack of enough reliable shooters and defenders combined in each individual. It impacts everything and contributes to close games. The difference between our better defenders and our better shooting subs is pretty wide.
That is definitely true for Polley; Hawkins was getting better at both ends of the floor but unfortunately he wasn’t an option and I don’t know what to expect from him for the NCAAs.

But yeah, it‘s a glaring weakness, no doubt. That‘s why Nova will win most times if the game plan for each of us is to cancel out each other’s two best players and let the other players beat you. Their other players are better than our other players.
 
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It's not silly; it's a valid observation and criticism and has nothing to do with hating.

It has everything to do with improving, which we all want.

The consensus is that we have Sweet 16 talent this season. Let's see if we can fulfill that potential.
We're projected to be a 6 seed. That's more like round 32 talent. 4 seed means Sweet 16 talent.
 

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