Dallas Morning News: Ex-players describe debilitating culture in SMU WBB

[CocoHusky]

They did make complaints. The school didn't care enough to do anything. Also, the students shouldn't have to file a formal complaint if any of this is true, which is sounds like it is. They can conduct an investigation and talk to any of the players who have gone on the record. But they probably won't do that.

Kind of not how thing work in the real world. If there is no formal "written" complaint what is there for the authorities or the university to investigate? If your boss is abusing you at work, I bet you get a different outcome if you went to HR as opposed to going to "talk" to your boss' supervisor. On the record to the Dallas Morning News is not the same a a written complaint or lawsuit against your university. Don't we have enough examples Penn state, Baylor... where someone saw or experienced something horrific and failed to "formally write down a complaint"?

 

[CocoHusky]

They did make complaints. The school didn't care enough to do anything. Also, the students shouldn't have to file a formal complaint if any of this is true, which is sounds like it is. They can conduct an investigation and talk to any of the players who have gone on the record. But they probably won't do that.

From the article:
Players POV: "Multiple players said they made numerous complaints individually to Hart, the athletic director."
There were also end-of-season surveys where players said they honestly expressed their opinions of the program.
Hart's POV: “Anytime we get feedback, we follow up on it, we discuss it, we share it,”

Telling someone "they might as well kill themselves" and some of the other things Mays was alleged to have done is serious, wrong and traumatic. What seems to have been happening though is that this the other player "verbal complaints" were handled in the context of normal "feedback" as in what can we do to improve our program. It should not have been!
Something that traumatic should have "immediately" lit a fire that sparked a least a formal written complaint from a student, parent, coach, administrator even the janitor if he happen to hear it. Something like that can't be treated as normal and should not wait until the end of year or after the player has transferred. That's walk out of practice, have Mom and Dad roll up to campus or the coaches residence, call the newspaper, have a lawyer on speed dial, I need a public apology or coach suspension within 12 hours, kind of situation. Quickly dismiss anyone who is telling you to calm down because nothing could be more serious.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Kind of not how thing work in the real world. If there is no formal "written" complaint what is there for the authorities or the university to investigate? If your boss is abusing you at work, I bet you get a different outcome if you went to HR as opposed to going to "talk" to your boss' supervisor. On the record to the Dallas Morning News is not the same a a written complaint or lawsuit against your university. Don't we have enough examples Penn state, Baylor... where someone saw or experienced something horrific and failed to "formally write down a complaint"?

That's not what needs to happen. If someone tells the boss's supervisor that the boss is engaged in abusing his employees, it doesn't matter whether a document is submitted to HR. Indeed, if the abused employee later quits and sues the company, I would suppose that she wins a huge settlement, because the supervisor was told about the abuse but did nothing. Doesn't matter one whit whether a document was submitted.

They knew.

And the same is the case here. It's all the more important that a university that knows that kids are being mentally or physically abused investigate, because of the power differential. A kid who's depending in keeping a scholarship shouldn't have to make a formal complaint to be protected.

And isn't that what happened with the Penn State abuse case? No one actually submitted a document to HR. But an assistant coach told the head coach that another coach was abusing children at the university, but the head coach didn't act. Lots of people lost their jobs as a result.

A university should be proactive.

 

[CocoHusky]

That's not what needs to happen. If someone tells the boss's supervisor that the boss is engaged in abusing his employees, it doesn't matter whether a document is submitted to HR. Indeed, if the abused employee later quits and sues the company, I would suppose that she wins a huge settlement, because the supervisor was told about the abuse but did nothing. Doesn't matter one whit whether a document was submitted.

They knew.

And the same is the case here. It's all the more important that a university that knows that kids are being mentally or physically abused investigate, because of the power differential. A kid who's depending in keeping a scholarship shouldn't have to make a formal complaint to be protected.

And isn't that what happened with the Penn State abuse case? No one actually submitted a document to HR. But an assistant coach told the head coach that another coach was abusing children at the university, but the head coach didn't act. Lots of people lost their jobs as a result.

A university should be proactive.

Quick rhetorical question:
How would one go about proving that "they knew" without documentation?
Are "they" suppose to take "your" word for it?

 

[TheGOAT23]

The real TRASH needs to be taken out!

 

[CocoHusky]

Not only will Mays have to clean out his desk but Hart will have to buy some moving boxes if they intend to ever recruit again.

It's not exactly like SMU was killing it in recruiting to begin with. UCONN is also leaving this conference next year. Sadly I don't think enough people will care to demand a coaching or AD change.

 

[CocoHusky]

The real TRASH needs to be taken out!

Who/ what is the real trash?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Quick rhetorical question:
How would one go about proving that "they knew" without documentation?
Are "they" suppose to take "your" word for it?

Yeah, it is a very tough row. I was just reading in the paper today about a lawsuit against U of A. A football player abused multiple girlfriends (he is in jail for 5 years, I think I read) and he was thrown off the team when the first "complaint" was made.

Turns out that there was an earlier "complaint", not quite so loud and certainly not public. A situation where the implication seems to be that U of A was in a "plausible deniability" situation - until a hand written note of the interview of the first complainer by one of the associate AD's surfaced that found her credible.

Lawsuit is progressing - in fact it was in the paper because a judge ruled the lawsuit could go forward.

So, like you say - documentation is key.

Incidentally, I will be the first one to admit that Arizona has a rather mixed history in the "Title 9" area. I "think" they have gotten better, having been burned a couple times.

 

[Plebe]

SMU president Gerald Turner views Travis Mays as coach for long term, praises AD’s actions as ‘strong and effective’

UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He...

www.dallasnews.com

"UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He also supports athletic director Rick Hart’s handling of Mays’ actions during the 2017-18 season."

 

[DefenseBB]

SMU president Gerald Turner views Travis Mays as coach for long term, praises AD’s actions as ‘strong and effective’

UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He...

www.dallasnews.com

"UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He also supports athletic director Rick Hart’s handling of Mays’ actions during the 2017-18 season."

"Some men, you just can't reach" is the first thing I think of. Is Turner tone deaf? Let's review the illustrious history of this program for a perspective:
2012-13 Rhonda Rampola was 21-10, 12-4 in Conference USA, 1st place (WNIT)
2013-14 " " was 18-14, 8-10 in first year of American, 6th place (WNIT)
2014-15 " " was 7-23, 3-15 10th place
2015-16 " " was 13-18, 7-11 6th, contract not renewed but players were better
2016-17 Travis Mays was 19-15, 7-9 tied 5th, as 6 seed in AACT, Rhonda's players
2017-18 " " was 10-20, 4-12 10th
2018-19 " " was 11-19, 5-11 tied 9th, 9th seed
2019-20 " " is 10-13, 4-7 9th place, projected 12-17, 6-10

So, Mr. Turner, the evidence that you should be supporting Travis Mays is exactly what???

As SMU is a private institution, they did not and do not have to disclose coaches contracts. It is thought that Mays signed a 6 or 7 year contract in April of 2016, so that has him until April of 2022 or 2023.

Yuk, I now have to go shower...

 

[eebmg]

Anyone know what is their recruitment class like? Is there some talent in that class that may "explain" why they are holding on to this guy? I suppose when some recruits change their mind, action would follow.

 

[TheFarmFan]

SMU president Gerald Turner views Travis Mays as coach for long term, praises AD’s actions as ‘strong and effective’

UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He...

www.dallasnews.com

"UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He also supports athletic director Rick Hart’s handling of Mays’ actions during the 2017-18 season."

Where is the dislike button? Over the years SMU has really earned its initials - Shaking My(head) University...

 

[DefenseBB]

Anyone know what is their recruitment class like? Is there some talent in that class that may "explain" why they are holding on to this guy? I suppose when some recruits change their mind, action would follow.

Come on eebmg, you know the story, schools never buy out their Women's coaches, they let the contracts expire or fire for cause so they don't have to pay. Holly is the only coach I can think of who had her contract bought out and that was due to a renegotiation she did when she signed the extension in the summer of 2018. The other one I thought it might happen to was Fargas at LSU as her extension included favorable buyout costs but she's having a good year and will probably make the NCAAT.

If they didn't fire him for cause by now, the have too much contradictory evidence in support to fire him, so they are stuck with him. As I said-YUK!
Never trust guys with bow ties (except for Bill Nye)!

 

[maccca3232]

Former SMU women’s basketball player files lawsuit against university, Travis Mays

Former SMU women’s basketball player Dai’ja Thomas has filed a lawsuit, naming the university, head coach Travis Mays and team doctor John Baker as the...

www.dallasnews.com

 

[maccca3232]

SMU president Gerald Turner views Travis Mays as coach for long term, praises AD’s actions as ‘strong and effective’

UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He...

www.dallasnews.com

"UNIVERSITY PARK — SMU president R. Gerald Turner said he believes women’s basketball coach Travis Mays will be in place with the program for the long term. He also supports athletic director Rick Hart’s handling of Mays’ actions during the 2017-18 season."

 

[Tazmazz]

This Doug Feinberg article from last year siad coaches are changes, evidently not fast enough.

Coaches are changing the way they communicate with players

It seems as if almost every week another coach is getting accused of abuse by their players. Georgia Tech, North Carolina, and now Northern Kentucky are the latest schools to generate headlines over the past month.

apnews.com

I’m sure Jeff Walz has refined some things but he still gets their attention in a game and has a quick hook for mistakes. Balogun a McDonald’s All American got a total of 4 minutes in the ACCT game due to 2 turnovers in 4 minutes. She also hit a sweet 3 pointer. Didn’t matter.

 

[stwainfan]

SMU has had some history. Back in the 1980's the football program. It became the only one to get the death penalty. For repeated recruiting violations. That also was part of the reason the southwest conference is no more. There was a joke going around that Eric Dickerson took cut in pay to go play in the NFL.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

SMU has had some history. Back in the 1980's the football program. It became the only one to get the death penalty. For repeated recruiting violations. That also was part of the reason the southwest conference is no more. There was a joke going around that Eric Dickerson took cut in pay to go play in the NFL.

Although to be fair, a connection between SMU's infamous football cheating and a women's basketball coach's bad behavior over 30 years later is pretty much non-existent.

 

[DefenseBB]

I am sorry it took the AD until Travis Mays contract was expiring for him to finally show these woman and that program the respect they should have gotten in the first place.

Let’s hope someone who has been HC of a good mid-major program with a sparkling character, comes in to help this program.

 

[cancontent]

I am sorry it took the AD until Travis Mays contract was expiring for him to finally show these woman and that program the respect they should have gotten in the first place.

Let’s hope someone who has been HC of a good mid-major program with a sparkling character, comes in to help this program.

This can't be said enough. Was talking to friend about how it seems female coaches get the hook/disciplined faster when situations like this happen.

Read the article that originally started this thread and wow, I forgot how horrible this situation was.

 

[Plebe]

SMU has had some history. Back in the 1980's the football program. It became the only one to get the death penalty. For repeated recruiting violations. That also was part of the reason the southwest conference is no more. There was a joke going around that Eric Dickerson took cut in pay to go play in the NFL.

Good grief, let's just call this a huge lane-change failure. It's a complete non sequitur combined with an egregious misattribution, all in just a few short sentences.

What in the world does the news of Travis Mays' firing as the women's basketball coach have to do with the football death penalty of 34 years ago? Other than the fact that it happened at the same school?

The demise of the SWC was an inevitability due to severe structural imbalances within the conference and the shifting sands of the national CFB media landscape. With or without SMU's sanctions, the breakup would've happened regardless.