OT: Cupcake City Baby!

[oldude]

Starting a team’s season playing one or more cupcakes is a trend that’s been around in college sports for many years. Big time college football programs actually pay cupcakes handsomely for the privilege of traveling to Football U to get massacred (Thank you Clemson). WBB is no different, as almost every P5 conference team has lined up more cupcakes than a junior high school bake sale.

UConn has long been an outlier to this practice, but just last night ranked WBB teams played the following games:

• Stanford 91 – Morgan St 36
• Kentucky 98 – N Alabama 56
• Sout Florida 72 – Alabama St 37
• Virginia Tech 75 – George Washington 38
• Georgia Tech 72 – Kennesaw St 45
• Baylor 81 – TX Arlington 54
• Iowa 91 – Samford 54
• Texas A&M 92 – Southern 32

To some extent, I understand the motivation behind a football team opening with a cupcake. Maybe you’re working in a new QB and you’re concerned about execution and turnovers. But unlike football, basketball teams can and do play several exhibition games and/or scrimmages to get the rust off.

Are coaches so concerned with the unthinkable possibility of opening up their season with a loss that they want no part of a game against another team that might just give them a real game? It makes you appreciate all the more teams like SC, NC St and UConn who open their seasons with legitimate D1 competition. Wes Moore certainly didn’t want the Wolfpack to start their season 0-1, but NC St will be a better team for taking on the challenge of playing the #1 team in the nation.

I must admit that I take great pleasure in watching those rare games when a cupcake steps up to give a top team more than it bargained for like the TN Lady Vols battle with the Southern Illinois Salukis on Wednesday night. But most of the time it’s hard to watch these complete mismatches.

Dick Vitale has taken to picking his “All Cupcake OOC” teams every year in MBB, I guess to have a little fun and perhaps shame a few college coaches into upgrading their schedules. Unfortunately there is no comparable recognition in WBB, so for the foreseeable future it will be CUPCAKE CITY BABY!

 

[Blakeon18]

IMO: if UConn was in a strong conference...as they were back in the Olde Big East...with ND/Louisville and a host of good programs...I think it made sense to sprinkle some 'cupcake' OCC games...along with an occasional big-timer.
Get playing time for the bench...gain confidence in your strengths etc. Sometimes those 'cupcake games' were gifts to Geno's collegiate friends [e.g.Holy Cross] or as a reward to the opponent for scheduling the UConn football team.

Nowadays: the New Big East is not nearly as strong as it once was and Geno appropriately tries to schedule OOC games with many elite programs...and he basically succeeds...and you are correct that it is good to see some other coaches welcome the challenge of playing the dominant program in the country...and not heading for the high hills to avoid them.

Never say 'never'..I say....but we belong in the ACC...period.

 

[oldude]

IMO: if UConn was in a strong conference...as they were back in the Olde Big East...with ND/Louisville and a host of good programs...I think it made sense to sprinkle some 'cupcake' OCC games...along with an occasional big-timer.
Get playing time for the bench...gain confidence in your strengths etc. Sometimes those 'cupcake games' were gifts to Geno's collegiate friends [e.g.Holy Cross] or as a reward to the opponent for scheduling the UConn football team.

Nowadays: the New Big East is not nearly as strong as it once was and Geno appropriately tries to schedule OOC games with many elite programs...and he basically succeeds...and you are correct that it is good to see some other coaches welcome the challenge of playing the dominant program in the country...and not heading for the high hills to avoid them.

Never say 'never'..I say....but we belong in the ACC...period.

Even in the days of the OBE when UConn played in arguably the best WBB conference in the nation, the Huskies still played a tough OOC schedule. In 2014-15, the last year of the OBE, UConn started the season with a west coast trip.

I will acknowledge that the opener against UC Davis wasn’t much competition for the 2-time defending national champions, but the 2nd game in Palo Alto resulted in UConn’s only loss that season in OT to a very good Stanford team.

 

[Plebe]

Even in the days of the OBE when UConn played in arguably the best WBB conference in the nation, the Huskies still played a tough OOC schedule. In 2014-15, the last year of the OBE, UConn started the season with a west coast trip.

The OBE's swan song was 2012-13. UConn's season opener that year was a 103-39 win over College of Charleston.

Edit to add:
Previous year season openers:
2011-12: Holy Cross
2010-11: Holy Cross
2009-10: Northeastern

 

[Glenn]

Opening with a cupcake seems perfectly reasonable to me. Listen to all of our players talking about their nerves and this should help them get acclimated. And, I think the cupcakes like it as well. The problem, to me, is scheduling more than 1. And, if you look at the men's side, UConn men schedule lots of bottom dwellers, 6 that are ranked below 300. That is embarrassing, and does not help you prepare

 

[oldude]

The OBE's swan song was 2012-13. UConn's season opener that year was a 103-39 win over College of Charleston.

Edit to add:
Previous year season openers:
2011-12: Holy Cross
2010-11: Holy Cross
2009-10: Northeastern

I stand corrected, although I would note that in 2012-13 UConn also played P5 opponents TX A&M, Wake Forest, Purdue, MD, PSU, Oregon, Stanford, Duke & Baylor, probably the toughest OOC schedule in the country.

The Huskies had losses to Baylor along with 3 tough losses to conference foe ND, still managing to win a national championship. So maybe what I should be talking about is a team loading up on cupcakes in their OOC schedule.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I ain't throwin stones in this glass house

 

[oldude]

I ain't throwin stones in this glass house

Of course you are referencing UConn’s conference schedule which basically is what it is.

 

[Plebe]

I stand corrected, although I would note that in 2012-13 UConn also played P5 opponents TX A&M, Wake Forest, Purdue, MD, PSU, Oregon, Stanford, Duke & Baylor, probably the toughest OOC schedule in the country.

The Huskies had losses to Baylor along with 3 tough losses to conference foe ND, still managing to win a national championship. So maybe what I should be talking about is a team loading up on cupcakes in their OOC schedule.

It was actually Baylor that had both the #1 overall SOS and the #1 nonconference SOS in 2012-13.

UConn that season was #2 overall SOS and #5 nonconference SOS. They did play several quality opponents that you mention, but Wake Forest was #163 that season and Oregon was #259. UConn also played Coll. of Charleston (173), Colgate (237), and Oakland (293). Not all cupcakes are low-majors or mid-majors.

 

[oldude]

Shifting this thread’s focus to a team’s entire OOC schedule, I have great respect for Mike Neighbors at Arkansas. Last season when UConn was desperately looking for a game, he did the Huskies a great favor by scheduling UConn on short notice. I know. Some favor considering they beat UConn in Fayetteville.

But the Arkansas game last year served both teams well. Without their two upset wins vs Baylor & UConn, the Razorbacks probably don’t get to the Big Dance last season. As for UConn, Geno sites the loss to Arkansas as one of the key turning points for his young Huskies last year. Could UConn go on to beat SC had they not lost to Arkansas?

In addition, Mike Neighbors was under no obligation to essentially agree to a home & home matchup with the Huskies this year, bringing his young team to Hartford on Sunday to face a loaded UConn team. But Neighbors wants to build a powerhouse program in Fayetteville, and you don’t do that by ducking competition.

 

[oldude]

It was actually Baylor that had both the #1 overall SOS and the #1 nonconference SOS in 2012-13.

UConn that season was #2 overall SOS and #5 nonconference SOS. They did play several quality opponents that you mention, but Wake Forest was #163 that season and Oregon was #259. UConn also played Coll. of Charleston (173), Colgate (237), and Oakland (293). Not all cupcakes are low-majors or mid-majors.

I stand corrected again. But my point remains that UConn has always and will continue to schedule tough OOC opponents so long as Geno runs the program.

 

[triaddukefan]

Thread title lured me in....... not what I expected to see

 

[oldude]

Thread title lured me in....... not what I expected to see

I must confess that when I decided on this thread’s title I was thinking of you.

 

[UcMiami]

Oldude - there are a few things:
1. WCBB for the most part is a losing proposition for the schools. Playing lots of home games is a cost savings and most cupcakes do not demand home and homes and are willing to take a drubbing for a percentage of the largest gate they are likely to get as well as the 'prestige' of playing a ranked team.
2. Another cost savings can be playing local schools - ones that do not require overnights and plane trips.
3. Especially for state schools, there can be a level of 'political' pressure to play other schools within the state system which mostly means cupcakes.
4. There are also some instances of coaching connections that lead to cupcakes - Holy Cross and Hartford for Uconn were two of those.
5. There are also geographic reasons at times. UC Davis for example was scheduled to add a second game to a west coast trip. Nevada and Colgate were scheduled for homecoming games for seniors.

I agree that there are a lot of schools that go all in on cupcakes - the SEC bottom half teams generally have loaded up on them - if done carefully it can greatly enhance a conference's SOS and RPI. In recent years the seeding committee started to penalize teams for bad schedules and more of the better teams took notice and made changes - Maryland specifically got penalized one year for a dreadful OOC and their OOC has improved drastically since then.

 

[oldude]

Oldude - there are a few things:
1. WCBB for the most part is a losing proposition for the schools. Playing lots of home games is a cost savings and most cupcakes do not demand home and homes and are willing to take a drubbing for a percentage of the largest gate they are likely to get as well as the 'prestige' of playing a ranked team.
2. Another cost savings can be playing local schools - ones that do not require overnights and plane trips.
3. Especially for state schools, there can be a level of 'political' pressure to play other schools within the state system which mostly means cupcakes.
4. There are also some instances of coaching connections that lead to cupcakes - Holy Cross and Hartford for Uconn were two of those.
5. There are also geographic reasons at times. UC Davis for example was scheduled to add a second game to a west coast trip. Nevada and Colgate were scheduled for homecoming games for seniors.

I agree that there are a lot of schools that go all in on cupcakes - the SEC bottom half teams generally have loaded up on them - if done carefully it can greatly enhance a conference's SOS and RPI. In recent years the seeding committee started to penalize teams for bad schedules and more of the better teams took notice and made changes - Maryland specifically got penalized one year for a dreadful OOC and their OOC has improved drastically since then.

I get your point about cost savings. But I would point out a couple issues. P5 schools are flush with millions in revenue and can certainly afford to get on a plane and fly to another P5 school. The other issue is that UConn, which doesn’t have access to P5 revenue, somehow manages to pay for all the trips associated with playing home and home games with top teams around the country.

 

[LoboDays]

UCONN can’t play OOC cupcakes. They have enough of them in their conference. Over 20 cupcakes every season. If they didn’t schedule quality OOC games, there would be none at all.

 

[hjoerring]

Starting a team’s season playing one or more cupcakes is a trend that’s been around in college sports for many years. Big time college football programs actually pay cupcakes handsomely for the privilege of traveling to Football U to get massacred (Thank you Clemson). WBB is no different, as almost every P5 conference team has lined up more cupcakes than a junior high school bake sale.

UConn has long been an outlier to this practice, but just last night ranked WBB teams played the following games:

• Stanford 91 – Morgan St 36
• Kentucky 98 – N Alabama 56
• Sout Florida 72 – Alabama St 37
• Virginia Tech 75 – George Washington 38
• Georgia Tech 72 – Kennesaw St 45
• Baylor 81 – TX Arlington 54
• Iowa 91 – Samford 54
• Texas A&M 92 – Southern 32

To some extent, I understand the motivation behind a football team opening with a cupcake. Maybe you’re working in a new QB and you’re concerned about execution and turnovers. But unlike football, basketball teams can and do play several exhibition games and/or scrimmages to get the rust off.

Are coaches so concerned with the unthinkable possibility of opening up their season with a loss that they want no part of a game against another team that might just give them a real game? It makes you appreciate all the more teams like SC, NC St and UConn who open their seasons with legitimate D1 competition. Wes Moore certainly didn’t want the Wolfpack to start their season 0-1, but NC St will be a better team for taking on the challenge of playing the #1 team in the nation.

I must admit that I take great pleasure in watching those rare games when a cupcake steps up to give a top team more than it bargained for like the TN Lady Vols battle with the Southern Illinois Salukis on Wednesday night. But most of the time it’s hard to watch these complete mismatches.

Dick Vitale has taken to picking his “All Cupcake OOC” teams every year in MBB, I guess to have a little fun and perhaps shame a few college coaches into upgrading their schedules. Unfortunately there is no comparable recognition in WBB, so for the foreseeable future it will be CUPCAKE CITY BABY!

I think you might be missing a point about these games. Most coaches see them as practice for their team. New/different faces to see and more organization on the floor. It is also an opportunity for these D2/3 teams to play-up. Most of these kids will never play against such competition. And, it might be possible that some of these schools/conferences get paid. What would we learn from playing SoC at this stage in the process? I rather like the fact that these schools get to travel and play against a supposedly higher quality opponent.

 

[oldude]

I think you might be missing a point about these games. Most coaches see them as practice for their team. New/different faces to see and more organization on the floor. It is also an opportunity for these D2/3 teams to play-up. Most of these kids will never play against such competition. And, it might be possible that some of these schools/conferences get paid. What would we learn from playing SoC at this stage in the process? I rather like the fact that these schools get to travel and play against a supposedly higher quality opponent.

To be clear. All the “cupcakes” I refer to are D1 schools. As far as I know, no D1 programs are playing D2 or D3 teams other than as exhibition games.

 

[MD#12Fan]

Starting a team’s season playing one or more cupcakes is a trend that’s been around in college sports for many years. Big time college football programs actually pay cupcakes handsomely for the privilege of traveling to Football U to get massacred (Thank you Clemson). WBB is no different, as almost every P5 conference team has lined up more cupcakes than a junior high school bake sale.

UConn has long been an outlier to this practice, but just last night ranked WBB teams played the following games:

• Stanford 91 – Morgan St 36
• Kentucky 98 – N Alabama 56
• Sout Florida 72 – Alabama St 37
• Virginia Tech 75 – George Washington 38
• Georgia Tech 72 – Kennesaw St 45
• Baylor 81 – TX Arlington 54
• Iowa 91 – Samford 54
• Texas A&M 92 – Southern 32

To some extent, I understand the motivation behind a football team opening with a cupcake. Maybe you’re working in a new QB and you’re concerned about execution and turnovers. But unlike football, basketball teams can and do play several exhibition games and/or scrimmages to get the rust off.

Are coaches so concerned with the unthinkable possibility of opening up their season with a loss that they want no part of a game against another team that might just give them a real game? It makes you appreciate all the more teams like SC, NC St and UConn who open their seasons with legitimate D1 competition. Wes Moore certainly didn’t want the Wolfpack to start their season 0-1, but NC St will be a better team for taking on the challenge of playing the #1 team in the nation.

I must admit that I take great pleasure in watching those rare games when a cupcake steps up to give a top team more than it bargained for like the TN Lady Vols battle with the Southern Illinois Salukis on Wednesday night. But most of the time it’s hard to watch these complete mismatches.

Dick Vitale has taken to picking his “All Cupcake OOC” teams every year in MBB, I guess to have a little fun and perhaps shame a few college coaches into upgrading their schedules. Unfortunately there is no comparable recognition in WBB, so for the foreseeable future it will be CUPCAKE CITY BABY!

I like the perspective from the angle of the "cupcake" like you took in the beginning of your post.
I "played" at Washington and Lee University in the late 70's. We were a formidable Div III program. There was a tradition there of playing UVA in the beginning of the year. Everything you said in your post applied to that annual clash. The point you didn't bring up was the effect that game had on us. My best friend started as a freshman. Forever he can remember covering Wally Walker and Gus Gerard in the game and also how the team played well against them. Can never take that stuff away from you.
The following year, our coach established a "tip-off" tournament at our site as a start to the season. Great idea! From his perspective, it probably "checked off more boxes". From our perspective as players......

 

[Aluminny69]

Speaking of Dick Vitale ( he originated the phrase "cupcake city) I went to UConn with his younger brother John Vitale. John was an Olympic level marathoner, although I'm not sure if he ever made the team. He was very quiet, and a member of TKE fraternity.

Just a little trivia.

 

[oldude]

I like the perspective from the angle of the "cupcake" like you took in the beginning of your post.
I "played" at Washington and Lee University in the late 70's. We were a formidable Div III program. There was a tradition there of playing UVA in the beginning of the year. Everything you said in your post applied to that annual clash. The point you didn't bring up was the effect that game had on us. My best friend started as a freshman. Forever he can remember covering Wally Walker and Gus Gerard in the game and also how the team played well against them. Can never take that stuff away from you.
The following year, our coach established a "tip-off" tournament at our site as a start to the season. Great idea! From his perspective, it probably "checked off more boxes". From our perspective as players......

I appreciate your perspective. I used to work with a fellow named Robert Earl Blue who played basketball for UNC-Charlotte in the early 70’s. Bobbie was a really good basketball player at a middle of the road school, who took great pride in his only matchup against HOF’er David (Skywalker) Thompson and the NC State Wolfpack.

As he told the story, Thompson blocked his first 3 shots. Not to be dissuaded, Bobbie ultimately scored 20+ points in Charlotte’s loss to nationally ranked NC St.

 

[MD#12Fan]

I appreciate your perspective. I used to work with a fellow named Robert Earl Blue who played basketball for a UNC-Charlotte in the early 70’s. Bobbie was a really good basketball player at a middle of the road school, who took great pride in his only matchup against David (Skywalker) Thompson and the NC State Wolfpack.

As he told the story, Thompson blocked his first 3 shots. Not to be dissuaded, Bobbie ultimately scored 20+ points in Charlotte’s loss to nationally ranked NC St.

Awesome story!
Remember UNCC and Cornbread. Sounds like he didn't miss it by much.
One of my best buddies' dad coached Davidson football so he grew up in Charlotte, North Meck. We were dead into that team!

 

[oldhusky]

Scheduling a tough game first puts a little pressure on one of our most amazing team records, namely not losing two games in a row since before any current players were born, all the way back to 1993 I believe, and well over 900 games since.

Obviously any tournament team that is not crowned champion starts the next season with a one game losing streak. A cupcake in the first game would kind of be sandbagging regarding keeping that streak intact.

 

[fireford]

Between the leftover Halloween candy being just about gone and all of this talk of cupcakes, I'm in need of a sugar fix right about now.

 

[oldude]

Scheduling a tough game first puts a little pressure on one of our most amazing team records, namely not losing two games in a row since before any current players were born, all the way back to 1993 I believe, and well over 900 games since.

Obviously any tournament team that is not crowned champion starts the next season with a one game losing streak. A cupcake in the first game would kind of be sandbagging regarding keeping that streak intact.

While it’s a remarkable streak, I don’t think that’s ever been a motivating factor for UConn.