CtPost: Ambitious agenda keeps growing for UConn president

[upstater]

One more thing about the comment that schools take money from the rich to give to the poor, you have to realize that schools like UConn are heavily subsidized, with only a third of the money coming from tuition. A third coming from research grants (schools take a 60% cut). Another third comes from the taxpayers and about 10% from the endowment. So, the rise in tuition is not going to a redistribution model as it does at private schools. Instead, tuition is barely half of the cost per student, and frequently at the top schools like Michigan and Virginia, tuition is only a quarter or a third of the actual cost.

 

[J187Money]

Just not true. Part of the cuts at mine and many other schools has been staff cuts which lead to both increased class sizes but also mostly course reductions. In other words, we only offer the classes kids need to graduate (which is nearly all of them) once a year (at best). Many students get frozen out by class caps and/or scheduling problems. And this is happening when for many majors you only need to take 10 courses. Topping it all off is that half my students work at least half time, and many full time.

So, schools have tried to address this. How? Lowering standards. (i.e. Fewer courses in the major, fewer Gen. Ed. requirements) Students are essentially paying more for less.

Perhaps things have changed. All I know is when I was an RA at Uconn most of my residents issues were caused by not wanting to take 15 credits or dropping classes each semester because they were too engrossed in living the experience.

I graduated in 7 semesters plus 2 summer classes. My brother and sister took north of 6 years. They will both tell you that it was their own fault.

I still maintain that with proper planning you can get out in 4 years most of the time.

 

[upstater]

Perhaps things have changed. All I know is when I was an RA at Uconn most of my residents issues were caused by not wanting to take 15 credits or dropping classes each semester because they were too engrossed in living the experience.

I graduated in 7 semesters plus 2 summer classes. My brother and sister took north of 6 years. They will both tell you that it was their own fault.

I still maintain that with proper planning you can get out in 4 years most of the time.

Things really have changed, trust me. The huge cutbacks dealt big blows. They fired all non-tenured faculty at my school. We were in a dysfunctional state until standards were lowered. Check this article out: http://advising.buffalo.edu/fif/

Also here: http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130127/BUSINESS/130129251/1005

In practice, this means nothing but lower standards. That's how they can do this. How do we get you out the door? Fewer required classes.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Just not true. Part of the cuts at mine and many other schools has been staff cuts which lead to both increased class sizes but also mostly course reductions. In other words, we only offer the classes kids need to graduate (which is nearly all of them) once a year (at best). Many students get frozen out by class caps and/or scheduling problems. And this is happening when for many majors you only need to take 10 courses. Topping it all off is that half my students work at least half time, and many full time.

So, schools have tried to address this. How? Lowering standards. (i.e. Fewer courses in the major, fewer Gen. Ed. requirements) Students are essentially paying more for less.

This was a problem for me at UConn in the 80's. Very tough to get all your prerequisite classes in the right order, in time to graduate in 4 years. But the average is also bumped by engineering, which is typically 5 years, and which most of the private liberal arts schools. don't really offer at the same level.

 

[upstater]

This was a problem for me at UConn in the 80's. Vey tough to get all your prerequisite classes in the right order, in time to graduate in 4 years. But the average is also bumped by engineering, which is typically 5 years, and which most of the private liberal arts schools. don't really offer at the same level.

Very true for engineering, but the privates also have the advantage of smaller classes, which makes opening space for extra students above the cap easy to do. At public schools now, classes are heaving with 50 students for seminars. We are literally not allowed to add students (nor would we want to).

 

[HuskyHawk]

Very true for engineering, but the privates also have the advantage of smaller classes, which makes opening space for extra students above the cap easy to do. At public schools now, classes are heaving with 50 students for seminars. We are literally not allowed to add students (nor would we want to).

I agree. As I said, that was a problem at UConn even in the 80's. Scheduling was a complete fiasco. Add Drop day was freaking insane all day event at the ROTC hanger (now online I'm told), and left a lot of people unhappy with the result. It cost me an extra semester, which was relatively cheap at the time.

 

[Rumrunner]

Not true. Tuition at UConn makes up more than 50% of the budget revenue. 28% comes from the state.

One more thing about the comment that schools take money from the rich to give to the poor, you have to realize that schools like UConn are heavily subsidized, with only a third of the money coming from tuition. A third coming from research grants (schools take a 60% cut). Another third comes from the taxpayers and about 10% from the endowment. So, the rise in tuition is not going to a redistribution model as it does at private schools. Instead, tuition is barely half of the cost per student, and frequently at the top schools like Michigan and Virginia, tuition is only a quarter or a third of the actual cost.

 

[upstater]

Not true. Tuition at UConn makes up more than 50% of the budget revenue. 28% comes from the state.

I wrote schools like UConn, land grant state schools.The difference being that many of these state school have bigger endowments to draw on, and more research grants to offset costs.

The state gave UConn $225 million of its $1.05 billion budget last year. So, it should be only 22.5% from taxpayers.

Back in 1989, students only paid 22% of the cost per student. So why has that jumped to 50%? State subsidy is down, that's one reason. In terms of subsidy per capita (per $1,000 of income) Connecticut is historically in the bottom 5th of states, and only in the last few years has it jumped into the 30s.

Since 1989, expenditures at UConn have gone up 114%--which is below inflation. But tuition has doubled. And this happened in an era of higher health costs for employees plus the considerable expense of high technology and wiring the campus.

 

[John Greene]

Time to graduate has little to do with the school. Most of the kids that take that long do so because they either f around or don't seek help figuring out where they are going.

All I know is that when one of my kids looked into UConn as an out of state she was told by admissions that if she knew what her major would be, did not change it at any point, and course offerings fell into place, she would have about a 50/50 chance of finishing in 4 years. She went to Vandy instead, finished in 4 years with a major change and never looked back. As an aside when she overlaped in school with her older brother and younger sister. The schools that each attended reduced tuition during the overlaping semesters.

 

[RS9999X]

Its a salesmanship scam to get kids into the Masters program which they can often finish nights. Many schools will allow 6 under grad credits to be applied towards the Masters and not coincidentally these classes run every 3 years and are labeled as 'tweeners' -- grad school elective or under grad pre-requisite
'

 

[J187Money]

All I know is that when one of my kids looked into UConn as an out of state she was told by admissions that if she knew what her major would be, did not change it at any point, and course offerings fell into place, she would have about a 50/50 chance of finishing in 4 years. She went to Vandy instead, finished in 4 years with a major change and never looked back. As an aside when she overlaped in school with her older brother and younger sister. The schools that each attended reduced tuition during the overlaping semesters.

I wonder if that's based on some overall statistic on who DOES finish, not what is possible. Granted I graduated in '93 so that's 20 years ago, but I never had an issue getting into a class that I needed (School of Business / Accounting). Granted it took some planning and making sure that I had the right grades to get INTO the business school on time, but it was never an issue for people that planned properly and got good grades.

If that's really how it is - that is seriously messed up.

 

[J187Money]

I agree. As I said, that was a problem at UConn even in the 80's. Scheduling was a complete fiasco. Add Drop day was freaking insane all day event at the ROTC hanger (now online I'm told), and left a lot of people unhappy with the result. It cost me an extra semester, which was relatively cheap at the time.

Never even went to Add/Drop. I just signed up for classes, got them, got the grades and graduated. AND I took a semester off to do a co-op job out of state. Needed two summer courses after walking to finish up.

And I'm not dismissing what upstater and others are saying, but most of the talk I remember from my residents / friends was:

- I want to get into the sections that my friends are in
- I don't like that professor - he is too hard
- I only want Tuesday/Thursday classes
- I don't want 8am classes
- I don't want to take 15 credits
- etc...

 

[upstater]

Never even went to Add/Drop. I just signed up for classes, got them, got the grades and graduated. AND I took a semester off to do a co-op job out of state. Needed two summer courses after walking to finish up.

And I'm not dismissing what upstater and others are saying, but most of the talk I remember from my residents / friends was:

- I want to get into the sections that my friends are in
- I don't like that professor - he is too hard
- I only want Tuesday/Thursday classes
- I don't want 8am classes
- I don't want to take 15 credits
- etc...

I graduated in 4, and somehow I ended up only needing one class my last semester, so I hear what you are saying.

That being said, there have been massive cutbacks at schools, and the result is less staff, cheaper staff, fewer classes. The Prez at Cal opened his speech at Frosh orientation by announcing to the incoming students, "You will pay much more for much less. Welcome!"

 

[upstater]

Davidson: $41k tuition and fees.
Trinity: $45k tuition and fees.

Realize that private schools have only 10-15% of students nationally.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

Well this isn't for everyone but my daughter is halfway through her military enlistment and considering UConn when she gets out. If she attends her cost will most likely be $0 after all is said and done. Additionally as a veteran myself I can attend any of our state universities tuition-free indefinitely. It's not a bad deal.

 

[HuskyJJ]

For anyone arguing that sometimes it's impossible to graduate in 4 years because of lack of classes, I'm calling total bullshit. I graduated last year (2012) with two majors (molecular & cell bio, and chemistry), and yes, sometimes classes were ridiculous to get into. The solution? Planning! First off, you try and get into those courses EARLY, instead of changing your mind fifty times while the classes fill up. On top of that, try to take them as early in your career as you can, leave the gen eds that you have fifty options from for last! Also, for anyone who has ever not gotten into a course while not contacting the professor directly to see if they would open up an extra spot, then you can't complain. People just don't try hard enough, they see the class is full, and give up... "Oh guess I'm going to spend an extra semester here." On top of that, a LOT of required courses are offered over intersessions, it would be WAY cheaper to take a class then than an extra semester (though I didn't ever take one). I'm sorry, but if I can get a double science major in 8 semesters, you can get a single major in 8. Otherwise you just aren't trying hard enough, and no whining will convince me otherwise.

 

[ZooCougar]

Davidson's tuition has gone way up. It used to be a major bargain.

 

[huskymedic]

Well this isn't for everyone but my daughter is halfway through her military enlistment and considering UConn when she gets out. If she attends her cost will most likely be $0 after all is said and done. Additionally as a veteran myself I can attend any of our state universities tuition-free indefinitely. It's not a bad deal.

Least they/we can do... Thank you (and your daughter) for your service to our Country!

 

[upstater]

For anyone arguing that sometimes it's impossible to graduate in 4 years because of lack of classes, I'm calling total bull . I graduated last year (2012) with two majors (molecular & cell bio, and chemistry), and yes, sometimes classes were ridiculous to get into. The solution? Planning! First off, you try and get into those courses EARLY, instead of changing your mind fifty times while the classes fill up. On top of that, try to take them as early in your career as you can, leave the gen eds that you have fifty options from for last! Also, for anyone who has ever not gotten into a course while not contacting the professor directly to see if they would open up an extra spot, then you can't complain. People just don't try hard enough, they see the class is full, and give up... "Oh guess I'm going to spend an extra semester here." On top of that, a LOT of required courses are offered over intersessions, it would be WAY cheaper to take a class then than an extra semester (though I didn't ever take one). I'm sorry, but if I can get a double science major in 8 semesters, you can get a single major in 8. Otherwise you just aren't trying hard enough, and no whining will convince me otherwise.

One required course for a major was offered once every 2 years after the changes. Call bvaloney all you want, but you're wrong. On top of that, upper-level requirements can't be taught ina few weeks of intersession, and to top it off, intersession courses are NOT cheaper. How did you come up with that> For schools, intersession courses are cash cows because the tuition is the same as regular semesters, but they pay faculty very little to teach those courses , AND scholarships are not applicable so students aren't subsidized. And finally, congratulations!

 

[Peacefrog]

UNC is a great school, but it's costs are not dramatically different from UConn's. Full cost this year for in-state is $22K+ in a state with a lower per capita income (although that does include $1,500 for insurance which I presume can be waived if the student has other coverage). Furthermore, according to the UNC website, they are setting the expectation that new students should plan for a rise in tuition and fees and noted that increases over the last four years have averaged 7% per year. All states are squeezing higher education budgets so, unfortunately, that is not unusual.

It's hard to imagine that college costs can continue to increase at such rates, but I've also been saying that for nearly a decade and they have continued their steady growth rate far in excess of cost of living or family income growth.

Actually tuition, room and board is about $17,500 for the year in-state. A fair bit lower than UConn.

 

[thatguyed]

UConn in state tuition and base fees is $5800 per semester. Take it to $22k per year with full room and board. Good private schools are now $55k+ anywhere maybe with 25% in schollies, more if your tests are off the charts or a minority (reality, no disrespect).

Are other schools cheaper? Of course, everything is more in the northeast. Are those schools national top 20? Nearly all are not.

FWIW, my daughter will grad UConn this May with 2 degrees plus a minor in 5 years. Regular on the Dean's List and competed for UConn 3 years. No scholly. And had a blast on top of it all. Case closed. Great education at a reasonable investment.

 

[upstater]

I didn't include Davidson room and board.