COVID Vaccine Thread, the Sequel

[willie99]

Fully vaccinated with Pfizer shots. A little fatigued after first shot, but not wiped out. Had a serious coughing fit the day after the second shot, one day, again not wiped out but I stayed away from everybody. The arm pain was so minute it's not even worth mentioning

My daughter, 27 years younger, was wiped out for 36 hours

 

[Kathy]

Fully vaccinated with Pfizer shots. A little fatigued after first shot, but not wiped out. Had a serious coughing fit the day after the second shot, one day, again not wiped out but I stayed away from everybody. The arm pain was so minute it's not even worth mentioning

My daughter, 27 years younger, was wiped out for 36 hours

I'm 63 and was wiped out for about 36 hours after 2nd pfizer

 

[HuskyHawk]

They are resistant to the vaccines?

They don’t know yet. Apparently the vaccines provide good protection against the UK variant. Not clear yet about the South African one.

The one you have to worry about is the Brazilian strain (P1). Unfortunately for us here in MA, Massachusetts and also Florida are the places it is now showing up. Big Brazilian population on the Cape, near me in Milford and in parts of SE Mass into RI (suspect Portuguese language is the reason).

In any event, unlike B.1.1.7 (UK), Which is already close to 60% of US cases, the Brazilian strain is actually more harmful, not just more contagious.

They are currently testing a 3rd booster shot against these strains.

 

[Excalibur]

They are resistant to the vaccines?

No evidence of that, and it is unlikely for each individual mutation. But the more the virus spreads among human hosts, the more likely it is that we eventually end up with a mutation that the vaccines are not effective against. This is the risk of not vaccinating, even if you think that you’re personally not at great risk from Covid.

 

[8893]

I'm 63 and was wiped out for about 36 hours after 2nd pfizer

I still don’t understand why, if a strong response is said to be a sign of a healthy immune system, it is not the case that the lack of a strong response indicates the opposite.

 

[tzznandrew]

No evidence of that, and it is unlikely for each individual mutation. But the more the virus spreads among human hosts, the more likely it is that we eventually end up with a mutation that the vaccines are not effective against. This is the risk of not vaccinating, even if you think that you’re personally not at great risk from Covid.

Right. But you don't get it. He only cares about what will make him, personally, safer. Everyone else can kick rocks. "lmfao"

 

[NJHusky]

I still don’t understand why, if a strong response is said to be a sign of a healthy immune system, it is not the case that the lack of a strong response indicates the opposite.

Maybe because they don’t want to panic those without a strong response?

 

[Chin Diesel]

I still don’t understand why, if a strong response is said to be a sign of a healthy immune system, it is not the case that the lack of a strong response indicates the opposite.

Without sounding swarmy, individual immune systems are different. Some are stronger than others and sometimes your body reacts differently depending on the vaccine.

I know we all like certainty with everything nowadays but there's a reason these meds, even long approved meds, come with a list of possible side effects.

 

[8893]

Without sounding swarmy, individual immune systems are different. Some are stronger than others and sometimes your body reacts differently depending on the vaccine.

I know we all like certainty with everything nowadays but there's a reason these meds, even long approved meds, come with a list of possible side effects.

I get all of that. Just seems strange to have no explanation when some people have little to no response, but when people have a strong response they say that’s a good thing.

It’s moot for me now, and I guess I’m happy that I had a strong one. Still think I had Covid in early January 2020, which may explain it.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I get all of that. Just seems strange to have no explanation when some people have little to no response, but when people have a strong response they say that’s a good thing.

It’s moot for me now, and I guess I’m happy that I had a strong one. Still think I had Covid in early January 2020, which may explain it.

I get you getting it. I would guess it's going to be a few years from now to get all the anecdotal evidence and correctly categorize it by age, vaccine type, previously having covid, comorbities, gender, race....................

In the meantime it's personal stories which will affect public perception. Personally I'm not a fan of news outlets reporting one off cases of reactions without proper context. I realize newspapers have to make a profit and any sensationalized covid story is click bait heaven for them.

 

[8893]

I get you getting it. I would guess it's going to be a few years from now to get all the anecdotal evidence and correctly categorize it by age, vaccine type, previously having covid, comorbities, gender, race....................

In the meantime it's personal stories which will affect public perception. Personally I'm not a fan of news outlets reporting one off cases of reactions without proper context. I realize newspapers have to make a profit and any sensationalized covid story is click bait heaven for them.

Agreed.

I also think they need to stop showing ads with the damned needles. They make it look huge and it’s actually the least scary part of all this. If given by anyone with any experience you shouldn’t feel the shot at all. But my15 year old sees it in TV and social media and she says it looks like it will go all the way to her bone and hurt a lot.

 

[NYConnMan]

I get all of that. Just seems strange to have no explanation when some people have little to no response, but when people have a strong response they say that’s a good thing.

It’s moot for me now, and I guess I’m happy that I had a strong one. Still think I had Covid in early January 2020, which may explain it.

My guess is that a strong reaction isn't necessary for the vaccine's efficacy. However, in order to make sure the people with low reaction are receiving enough of an immune response they have to use a higher dose than the people would high reactions would necessarily require. Because everything is being produced as though all people are identical they have to make the vaccine to suit the weakest responders, which causes some pain in the high responders.

So basically I'd imagine a strong response is good, but not necessary, and no response still doesn't indicate a lack of efficacy.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I get you getting it. I would guess it's going to be a few years from now to get all the anecdotal evidence and correctly categorize it by age, vaccine type, previously having covid, comorbities, gender, race....................

In the meantime it's personal stories which will affect public perception. Personally I'm not a fan of news outlets reporting one off cases of reactions without proper context. I realize newspapers have to make a profit and any sensationalized covid story is click bait heaven for them.

I am done with the majority of the US news outlets on this topic. NYT has some people doing good things, others producing panic pieces. Atlantic runs some of Dr. Marcus' pieces. Cable news is awful. Local news is fine for local stuff. If you or anyone like @8893 is interested, Twitter can cut out the middleman. Back in late spring last year I found and started following a few epidemiologists and researchers. Muge Cevik in the UK, Julia Marcus at Harvard and through their feeds you see their dialogue and discussion with others. Dr. Cevik has been one of the go to experts for NYT. She's part of a team of global researchers reviewing studies from around the world. I don't want to derail the thread, but here's an article she is quoted in for the BBC Science arm.

As for vaccines and variants, the really exciting thing about the mRNA platform is that they can very easily adapt it to variants.

 

[Kathy]

I still don’t understand why, if a strong response is said to be a sign of a healthy immune system, it is not the case that the lack of a strong response indicates the opposite.

It is still so interesting that the worst reactions I am aware of were women. My 32 yo son had second Moderna Monday- slight fever/chills yesterday for a couple hours, tired - back to normal this morning

 

[Chin Diesel]

It is still so interesting that the worst reactions I am aware of were women. My 32 yo son had second Moderna Monday- slight fever/chills yesterday for a couple hours, tired - back to normal this morning

Again, anecdotally, but I have read where they basically have two dose strengths- kids and adults. All grown men and women get the same strength adult dose and since most men are bigger than women, the dose is made to work on grown men. That means women are probably getting a stronger dose than they need.

Anecdotal but it does make sense. So many prescriptions and OTC's give dosage based on several things- age and weight being two common factors.

 

[NJHusky]

I get all of that. Just seems strange to have no explanation when some people have little to no response, but when people have a strong response they say that’s a good thing.

It’s moot for me now, and I guess I’m happy that I had a strong one. Still think I had Covid in early January 2020, which may explain it.

Prob no different than why some people don’t show any signs of Covid while others have catostrophic consequences

 

[ZenConn]

About 18 hours in after the Moderna shot #2 and I'm fine. No fever, a little swelling and soreness on the arm. Less sore than shot #1 though.

Just a little more tired than usual.

 

[J187Money]

I don't think it is helpful to give people a hard time for not getting the vaccine. Enough people will get it, or get sick, that herd immunity will occur in the fairly near future. I'm not sure what I would have done if I was in my 20s right now.

My older son got it in January because he is an athletic trainer and they made him. My younger son was going to get it, but just got COVID - so he might not now. He might not need it anyway now.

My view on this is that once every adult has had the OPPORTUNITY to get the vaccine - they will or they won't, and then life needs to go back to normal. People that got the vaccine have virtually eliminated their chance of dying from it. And if an unvaccinated person dies from it? Personal choice.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Right. But you don't get it. He only cares about what will make him, personally, safer. Everyone else can kick rocks. "lmfao"

kick rocks.

 

[superjohn]

Again, anecdotally, but I have read where they basically have two dose strengths- kids and adults. All grown men and women get the same strength adult dose and since most men are bigger than women, the dose is made to work on grown men. That means women are probably getting a stronger dose than they need.

Anecdotal but it does make sense. So many prescriptions and OTC's give dosage based on several things- age and weight being two common factors.

It's probably along those lines. Women can't tolerate alcohol like men, they absorb and metabolize it differently than men do. Weight and body composition probably tell the story.

 

[ZenConn]

I don't think it is helpful to give people a hard time for not getting the vaccine. Enough people will get it, or get sick, that herd immunity will occur in the fairly near future. I'm not sure what I would have done if I was in my 20s right now.

My older son got it in January because he is an athletic trainer and they made him. My younger son was going to get it, but just got COVID - so he might not now. He might not need it anyway now.

My view on this is that once every adult has had the OPPORTUNITY to get the vaccine - they will or they won't, and then life needs to go back to normal. People that got the vaccine have virtually eliminated their chance of dying from it. And if an unvaccinated person dies from it? Personal choice.

There have been cases where you can get COVID more than once and it is progressively worse each time you get it. The recommendation is that you get it even though you had it.

Everyone does have personal choice to get it but if someone gets sick, it will affect those who couldn't get it (allergic reactions, etc) and those in the healthcare industry and patients. It's absolutely unfair to have your choice of a preventable hospitalization take away the resources of a hospital to those really needing it (transplants, cancer patients, etc).

 

[Chin Diesel]

My wife was vaccinated on Monday (2nd Pfizer) woke up Tuesday with a sore arm. Fine today.

So we both are fully vaxed. I had Moderna and no side effects. None.

Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!!

Wife isn't "fully vaccinated" until 2 weeks past the second shot.

Lol.

Even though she is more than 80% towards full vaccination based on your first shot. With a full vaccination rate of about 95% for Pfizer after two weeks, she can add about 1% more towards full vaccination each day.

I would like to see # of positive covid cases after second shot by day between day of second shot and two weeks after second shot.

Second shot +1 day = how many cases?
Second shot + 2 days = how many cases?
.......
Second shot = 14 days = how many cases?

 

[ZenConn]

Agreed.

I also think they need to stop showing ads with the damned needles. They make it look huge and it’s actually the least scary part of all this. If given by anyone with any experience you shouldn’t feel the shot at all. But my15 year old sees it in TV and social media and she says it looks like it will go all the way to her bone and hurt a lot.

I saw the needle as well. Nothing compared to the size of the needle used for epidurals. I almost fainted when I saw the size of that one. 😂

 

[Chin Diesel]

There have been cases where you can get COVID more than once and it is progressively worse each time you get it. The recommendation is that you get it even though you had it.

Everyone does have personal choice to get it but if someone gets sick, it will affect those who couldn't get it (allergic reactions, etc) and those in the healthcare industry and patients. It's absolutely unfair to have your choice of a preventable hospitalization take away the resources of a hospital to those really needing it (transplants, cancer patients, etc).

How many of those cases have there been? Is it enough to impact health systems? Just asking.

Also, the argument of non getting vaccinated, getting sick and hospitalized and taking valuable resources away from others can go for a bunch of lifestyle reasons- obesity, smoking to name a few. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying there are plenty of other health choices people have that take little effort or modification which would reduce strain on resources for transplants, cancer patients, etc and we don't shame them as a group.

I'll go on a limb and suggest we are well past the point of hospitals being strained by non-vaccinated covid patients.

 

[HuskyHawk]

How many of those cases have there been? Is it enough to impact health systems? Just asking.

Also, the argument of non getting vaccinated, getting sick and hospitalized and taking valuable resources away from others can go for a bunch of lifestyle reasons- obesity, smoking to name a few. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying there are plenty of other health choices people have that take little effort or modification which would reduce strain on resources for transplants, cancer patients, etc and we don't shame them as a group.

I'll go on a limb and suggest we are well past the point of hospitals being strained by non-vaccinated covid patients.

It's largely a non thing. It may mostly be false positives from high cycle threshold PCR tests. CDC has been called out for not providing clarity on this by members of Congress, they worry about any "you don't need the vaccine" messaging. They have not tested the vaccine on people who had Covid before. There is no indication that it is necessary for people who had Covid. Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH) Certainly those folks should not be getting the vaccine before others. A study in Denmark showed that the elderly who had Covid may benefit, as their immunity declines faster.

 

[ZenConn]

How many of those cases have there been? Is it enough to impact health systems? Just asking.

Also, the argument of non getting vaccinated, getting sick and hospitalized and taking valuable resources away from others can go for a bunch of lifestyle reasons- obesity, smoking to name a few. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying there are plenty of other health choices people have that take little effort or modification which would reduce strain on resources for transplants, cancer patients, etc and we don't shame them as a group.

I'll go on a limb and suggest we are well past the point of hospitals being strained by non-vaccinated covid patients.

Yeah it's not a great deal of cases but it is a possibility - meaning just because someone had it doesn't mean they should ignore getting the vaccine.

Yeah I agree with you with the lifestyle choices being a burden on our health care system as well. I just don't see getting a vaccine to fight a pandemic as a lifestyle choice. I think it should be viewed in the same manner as MMR, Polio, etc vaccines.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Yeah it's not a great deal of cases but it is a possibility - meaning just because someone had it doesn't mean they should ignore getting the vaccine.

Yeah I agree with you with the lifestyle choices being a burden on our health care system as well. I just don't see getting a vaccine to fight a pandemic as a lifestyle choice. I think it should be viewed in the same manner as MMR, Polio, etc vaccines.

I think we are on the right path. Plenty of high risk people have the opportunity and a large majority are getting the vaccine. Whether or not it's enough for herd immunity immediately is up for debate. Maybe we have sub-herds. Not total herd immunity but immunity within higher risk groups.

Seems like coronaviruses severity peter out over time. Fully authorized vaccines will help out and I suspect once they become regular vice emergency authorizations, percentages will go up. We already live with several corornaviruses and I suspect we will see new ones pop up about every 5-10 years.

Human Coronavirus Types | CDC

How Many Coronavirus Strains are There? Novel Coronavirus Types and More (webmd.com)

 

[JustbrewitMan]

It's largely a non thing. It may mostly be false positives from high cycle threshold PCR tests. CDC has been called out for not providing clarity on this by members of Congress, they worry about any "you don't need the vaccine" messaging. They have not tested the vaccine on people who had Covid before. There is no indication that it is necessary for people who had Covid. Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH) Certainly those folks should not be getting the vaccine before others. A study in Denmark showed that the elderly who had Covid may benefit, as their immunity declines faster.

The other benefit recently reported (cant find the link at the moment, in a hurry), is that people with previous COVID early in pandemic don't mount a strong immune response / have minimial neutralizing antibodies to newer variants. Getting the vaccine expands their antibody neutralizing activity/overall immune response to newer variants that are much more prevalent now.

 

[Deepster]

Holy cow. I got my second dose of Pfizer yesterday at 3. I haven’t gotten off the couch today. I called in sick for the first time in maybe 25 years. I feel like I got hit by a truck.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The other benefit recently reported (cant find the link at the moment, in a hurry), is that people with previous COVID early in pandemic don't mount a strong immune response / have minimial neutralizing antibodies to newer variants. Getting the vaccine expands their antibody neutralizing activity/overall immune response to newer variants that are much more prevalent now.

Maybe. Maybe not. Correlates of protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection - The Lancet But in any event, they should be deprioritized. Back of the line. That's my only point really. Some folks are waiting to get a shot. I can certainly see them perhaps just getting the new 3rd shot booster for the variants that they are testing rather than the full regimen.