Courant CT High School Football: Preseason Ratings, Familiar Name At No. 1

[coachcap]

Feels like FB is migrating towards the path hockey took many years ago, with the best kids being recruited away from public schools. Sure there are a few top kids at the schools listed, but the majority of top recruits can be found at the preps.

That is not necessarily true. In the 70's the Hartford County Conference (Catholic High Schools) were power houses. Then the Archdiocese really jumped the tuition for students, effectively locking out blue collar & some middle class families. The publics were able to hold on to players. Also, some of the larger publics, Southington included, have dedicated Vocational Agriculture programs & buildings. This allows them to draw students from out of town who can be added to the available athlete pool.

 

[huskyblooz]

I haven't seen a more dominant player ever than Mark Evanchik. He doesn't attend any summer football camps, so he's not rated by the so-called services. He's also one of the top lacrosse players in the state and verballed to Penn as a sophomore. last Saturday, despite being doubled & triple-teamed he got 5 1/2 sacks against Greenwich. Not exactly a weak sister. He is unblockable.

I also like Nico Ragini the junior from ND-WH. He's the best athlete I've seen this year.

 

[huskymedic]

Missed a week...

NHR/GameTime Week 6: http://www.gametimect.com/the-week-...ball-poll-status-quo-heading-into-light-week/

1. Southington
2. New Canaan
3. Darien
4. Windsor
5. Shelton
6. North Haven
7. Newtown
8. Glastonbury
9. Ansonia
10. Wethersfield

Dropped Out: None

Others receiving votes
Hand (5-0), 268; Brookfield (4-1), 213; Torrington (5-0), 192; Berlin (5-0), 187; Staples (4-0), 182; Notre Dame-West Haven (3-2), 119; Middletown (4-1), 64; West Haven (3-2), 60; Wolcott (5-0), 36; Greenwich (2-1), 29; Conard (3-1), 25; New Fairfield (4-1), 22; Granby (5-0), 14; Ledyard (3-1), 9; Harding (5-0), 7.

 

[coachcap]

Can someone give an overview on how playoff rankings are arrived at? According to yesterday's New Britain Herald, Southington is ranked #1 in the h.s. football polls, yet #3 in the Class LL playoff rankings.

 

[huskymedic]

Can someone give an overview on how playoff rankings are arrived at? According to yesterday's New Britain Herald, Southington is ranked #1 in the h.s. football polls, yet #3 in the Class LL playoff rankings.

CIAC Point system determines standing and seedings:

The top eight teams in each division will be selected using a point system as follows: Four classes of competition will be used with the point system. Division LL - Division L - Division M - Division S
a. A school will receive 100 points for defeating a school in its own division; 90 points for defeating a school in one lower division; 80 points for defeating a school in two lower divisions; 70 points foe defeating a school in three lower divisions; 110 points for defeating a school in one higher division; 120 points foe defeating a school in two higher divisions; 130 points for defeating a school in three higher divisions.
b. A school defeating a league opponent of a lower division will not be subject to the structure as outlined in paragraph a., but will receive 100 points.
c. The following is used only if a game is played against an out-of-state team at the out-of-state team’s site. The out-of-state team must be a member of their state high school association. A school will receive 50 points for tying a school in its own division; 45 points for tying a school in one lower division; 40 points for tying a school in two lower divisions; 35 points for tying a school in three lower divisions; 55 points for tying a school in one higher division; 60 points for tying a school in two higher divisions; 65 points for tying a school in three higher divisions.
d. A school will receive 10 points for each victory and 5 points for each tie earned by any opponent it has defeated.
e. A school will receive 5 points for each victory and 2.5 points for each tie earned by an opponent it has tied. A school will not receive any bonus points for a tie where they were the opponent. 14
f. The total number of playoff points will be divided by the total number of games played to determine the point value earned by each school.

Top 8 qualify for the semi-finals.

Good Luck!

 

[kris1]

coachcap.....You'll need an abacus, a calculator, a slide rule, a no. 2 pencil, a piece of plain white paper, a mathematician, and a bowl of bacon jalapeño mac n cheese. If you do that and it still doesn't make sense, then you're on the right track. NOTHING the CIAC does....makes sense.

All seriousness, just know that the state media rankings have nothing to do with the CIAC playoff rankings. The playoff rankings are based on school size, opponent school size/league, and opponent wins/ties.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

The state playoff rankings are set up to not penalize league play, as the leagues are set up with a mix of teams from different size divisions. But it does penalize you if you play a team outside your league that is a smaller size than your school. So to take Southington (Class LL) for example, if they play teams in their league and win those games they get 100 pts per win. If however they were to take on say, Ansonia - a Class S school, even if they win they get less than 100 pts. I think 70 actually since it is 3 size classes down. Conversely Ansonia would get 130 pts for the win for playing up 3 divisions. This would be a great game for Ansonia, but a pitfall for Southington (sort of - Ansonia is still going to get you a lot of bonus points.)

The idea is that you should not be penalized for playing teams in your league, but if you schedule games outside your league to fill open dates, then it encourages you to seek opponents of same or greater size.

Then you get bonus points for any wins a defeated opponent gets (strength of schedule points, if you will).

The only way to change things up to make them more fair would be to arrange teams into the "district model" where all teams are rearranged by size and schedule accordingly (I cannot see this happening due to resistance from traditionalists in established leagues - especially the FCIAC).

Another way to make things more even would be to reduce the amount of league games played. Currently teams play 90-100% of their games within their league, regardless of difference in school size. Reduce that to 50-60% of the schedule and give teams more freedom to seek out similar size opponents. Then the current point system would become more of a factor as it would encourage teams to schedule teams closer to their own enrollment size and teams likely of getting bonus points from wins.

As for the polls, they are fun but they control nothing in regard to the playoffs.

New Haven Register - State media poll
New London Day - Coaches poll
Hartford Courant "poll" - Just Courant rankings by opinion of staff
MaxPreps - State computer rankings

 

[gioff23]

So, what you're saying is that they penalize HS teams for scheduling as if they were Rutgers?

 

[JMick]

The state playoff rankings are set up to not penalize league play, as the leagues are set up with a mix of teams from different size divisions. But it does penalize you if you play a team outside your league that is a smaller size than your school. So to take Southington (Class LL) for example, if they play teams in their league and win those games they get 100 pts per win. If however they were to take on say, Ansonia - a Class S school, even if they win they get less than 100 pts. I think 70 actually since it is 3 size classes down. Conversely Ansonia would get 130 pts for the win for playing up 3 divisions. This would be a great game for Ansonia, but a pitfall for Southington (sort of - Ansonia is still going to get you a lot of bonus points.)

The idea is that you should not be penalized for playing teams in your league, but if you schedule games outside your league to fill open dates, then it encourages you to seek opponents of same or greater size.

Then you get bonus points for any wins a defeated opponent gets (strength of schedule points, if you will).

The only way to change things up to make them more fair would be to arrange teams into the "district model" where all teams are rearranged by size and schedule accordingly (I cannot see this happening due to resistance from traditionalists in established leagues - especially the FCIAC).

Another way to make things more even would be to reduce the amount of league games played. Currently teams play 90-100% of their games within their league, regardless of difference in school size. Reduce that to 50-60% of the schedule and give teams more freedom to seek out similar size opponents. Then the current point system would become more of a factor as it would encourage teams to schedule teams closer to their own enrollment size and teams likely of getting bonus points from wins.

As for the polls, they are fun but they control nothing in regard to the playoffs.

New Haven Register - State media poll
New London Day - Coaches poll
Hartford Courant "poll" - Just Courant rankings by opinion of staff
MaxPreps - State computer rankings

This state needs the district model. Keep S/M/L/LL but split it into N, S, E, W. Top 2 teams from each division make the playoffs and either seed accordingly or put them on opposite sides of the bracket. Matt Glasz has put a lot of work into figuring out how the divisions could be set up and it looks to be much more competitive all around than it is now. There's no reason S schools should be playing LL teams. Matt has it at 5 leagues, which may work out better. Here's a link for anyone interested: http://www.gametimect.com/north-havens-matt-glasz-wants-consider-district-model-ct-football/

 

[Bonehead]

coachcap.....You'll need an abacus, a calculator, a slide rule, a no. 2 pencil, a piece of plain white paper, a mathematician, and a bowl of bacon jalapeño mac n cheese. If you do that and it still doesn't make sense, then you're on the right track. NOTHING the CIAC does....makes sense.

All seriousness, just know that the state media rankings have nothing to do with the CIAC playoff rankings. The playoff rankings are based on school size, opponent school size/league, and opponent wins/ties.

Common Core Baby!

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

This state needs the district model. Keep S/M/L/LL but split it into N, S, E, W. Top 2 teams from each division make the playoffs and either seed accordingly or put them on opposite sides of the bracket. Matt Glasz has put a lot of work into figuring out how the divisions could be set up and it looks to be much more competitive all around than it is now. There's no reason S schools should be playing LL teams. Matt has it at 5 leagues, which may work out better. Here's a link for anyone interested: http://www.gametimect.com/north-havens-matt-glasz-wants-consider-district-model-ct-football/

I think the district model is great. It's a fair way to set things up. I came up with a very similar version of this idea around 2004 or so (posted on the messages board at birdseyesports.com - which is no longer active). The problem is it is unrealistic. It's like basically telling all the conferences they are no longer relevant. Just look at all the blowback from the FCIAC on the conference title games being eliminated. Some of these conferences have some history, traditions and they also have to consider all sports, not just football. It would be great for football playoff fairness but you would never get all the schools and leagues to bite off on it because what they would have to eliminate to achieve it would be a bad trade-off.

But I think it would be reasonable to reduce conference scheduling to about half of the schedule. This would make the CIAC playoff point system more effective. It rewards teams that seek out same size or larger class schools, and from playing a tougher strength of schedule (bonus points). It penalizes seeking smaller schools or weaker schools.

 

[JMick]

I think the district model is great. It's a fair way to set things up. I came up with a very similar version of this idea around 2004 or so (posted on the messages board at birdseyesports.com - which is no longer active). The problem is it is unrealistic. It's like basically telling all the conferences they are no longer relevant. Just look at all the blowback from the FCIAC on the conference title games being eliminated. Some of these conferences have some history, traditions and they also have to consider all sports, not just football. It would be great for football playoff fairness but you would never get all the schools and leagues to bite off on it because what they would have to eliminate to achieve it would be a bad trade-off.

But I think it would be reasonable to reduce conference scheduling to about half of the schedule. This would make the CIAC playoff point system more effective. It rewards teams that seek out same size or larger class schools, and from playing a tougher strength of schedule (bonus points). It penalizes seeking smaller schools or weaker schools.

the FCIAC is really the biggest obstacle. New Canaan, Darien, Greenwich, and Staples will do whatever the heck they want with no regard for the rest of the league.

Also, since there isn't a dedicated HS football board, anyone else hear the rumor that a CCC team has been recruiting out of district? My guess is Windsor, Whethersfield or Glastonbury but those are just guesses.

 

[Oxford Bob]

Most leagues have schools that recruit out of their district. Greenwich, supposedly has been doing it for years. Kids want to play for a winner, look at Bloomfield for all those years.

 

[JMick]

Most leagues have schools that recruit out of their district. Greenwich, supposedly has been doing it for years. Kids want to play for a winner, look at Bloomfield for all those years.

Apparently a team has been caught and reported this year, so we'll see what happens.

The biggest culprit has been Ansonia. Most of their talent comes from outside of the town. CIAC wouldn't dare touch them, though. My friend grew up in New Haven and said that all the best players in pop warner would end up being recruited by Ansonia to play football. The parents would then pool their money and "rent" an apartment in Ansonia so their kids could attend the school.

 

[Oxford Bob]

I've heard the same things. plus all the catholic schools do it.

 

[Oxford Bob]

Kris1, does Ansonia recruit kids? Lol!!!

 

[kris1]

Kris1, does Ansonia recruit kids? Lol!!!

Busted.....lol. Great programs don't have to recruit. If Ansonia recruited, there would be more kids between 6'2 and 6'6 going to the school. There'd also be more boys enrolled. There roster numbers don't reflect that. Sure some kids MOVE into town in 8th or 9th grade. It happens everywhere today. Parent/guardians/kids looking for the best opportunity to get noticed. Let's be honest, there have not been a ton of D1 football players coming out of Ansonia. There's been a few but if they were recruiting, I think that number would be much greater. I was involved in the program as a player and a coach for over 25-years. NEVER did I see or hear a kid was lured there. That's not to say it couldn't happen. I've never witnessed it and it's a very tight-knit group, so something like that would have been discussed. Ansonia's been fortunate to have stability in the coaching staff going back 40+years. The head coach has changed a few times but the continuity in the support staff has remained. The pillars of the coaching staff have been there going back to the mid-70s. I can tell you this, having grown up in the town, its not the place it once was. Gangs, drugs, violence, and a poor economy have plagued the town. Football has been the one thing that drives the town. The one thing the residents have pride in. If a kid is looking for a better opportunity to secure an athletic scholarship in football, there are a million other places they could go. I moved away 15- years ago for better opportunities and education for my kids. My son is a very good athlete, probably would be a pretty good football player. He doesn't play. Not because he chooses to, but because the town we live in doesn't teach the game the way they do in Ansonia. It's just different. My schedule doesn't allow me to coach football, so I push him toward other athletic opportunities. If he decides he wants to play in high school, I will let likely let him. But, it won't be ANSONIA football. I could move back, but I won't (even if they asked me to) because the opportunities where I live now are far greater. My long-winded point being....if a kid is a pretty good football player who's being "recruited" to play high school football, there are better places to land then Ansonia.

 

[Oxford Bob]

Good answer

 

[coachRD]

Busted.....lol. Great programs don't have to recruit. If Ansonia recruited, there would be more kids between 6'2 and 6'6 going to the school. There'd also be more boys enrolled. There roster numbers don't reflect that. Sure some kids MOVE into town in 8th or 9th grade. It happens everywhere today. Parent/guardians/kids looking for the best opportunity to get noticed. Let's be honest, there have not been a ton of D1 football players coming out of Ansonia. There's been a few but if they were recruiting, I think that number would be much greater. I was involved in the program as a player and a coach for over 25-years. NEVER did I see or hear a kid was lured there. That's not to say it couldn't happen. I've never witnessed it and it's a very tight-knit group, so something like that would have been discussed. Ansonia's been fortunate to have stability in the coaching staff going back 40+years. The head coach has changed a few times but the continuity in the support staff has remained. The pillars of the coaching staff have been there going back to the mid-70s. I can tell you this, having grown up in the town, its not the place it once was. Gangs, drugs, violence, and a poor economy have plagued the town. Football has been the one thing that drives the town. The one thing the residents have pride in. If a kid is looking for a better opportunity to secure an athletic scholarship in football, there are a million other places they could go. I moved away 15- years ago for better opportunities and education for my kids. My son is a very good athlete, probably would be a pretty good football player. He doesn't play. Not because he chooses to, but because the town we live in doesn't teach the game the way they do in Ansonia. It's just different. My schedule doesn't allow me to coach football, so I push him toward other athletic opportunities. If he decides he wants to play in high school, I will let likely let him. But, it won't be ANSONIA football. I could move back, but I won't (even if they asked me to) because the opportunities where I live now are far greater. My long-winded point being....if a kid is a pretty good football player who's being "recruited" to play high school football, there are better places to land then Ansonia.

Having played against, and coached against, Ansonia-I would agree.... I was always wowed by how "normal" their teams looked from a size perspective, but I was NEVER wowed by how they steamrolled over us. I was never surprised because it happened almost all the time! A true PROGRAM.

 

[JMick]

I mean, even Newsome was from New Haven. He went to live with extended family to play for Ansonia. Why else would the coaching staff be at New Haven pop warner games?

 

[kris1]

I mean, even Newsome was from New Haven. He went to live with extended family to play for Ansonia. Why else would the coaching staff be at New Haven pop warner games?

WRONG......Newsome grew up in Waterbury. Google it!! He MOVED to Ansonia with his LEGAL guardian heading into his freshman year. He lived two blocks up from my parents house in Ansonia. You obviously don't know who the Ansonia high school coaches are. You may not like that he moved there but there's nothing against it. It happens all over the country today. as long as he resides in town, he can play in that town.

 

[FDNY99]

Most leagues have schools that recruit out of their district. Greenwich, supposedly has been doing it for years. Kids want to play for a winner, look at Bloomfield for all those years.

I know there is a kid in my neighborhood in Port Chester that used to play for Greenwich HS...his parents paid tuition for him to go there..same as they would have dome for him to go to Iona Prep or Stamford Catholic. It's kind of a no brainer to me especially since we are about 5 blocks from the Greenwich border

 

[kris1]

I know there is a kid in my neighborhood in Port Chester that used to play for Greenwich HS...his parents paid tuition for him to go there..same as they would have dome for him to go to Iona Prep or Stamford Catholic. It's kind of a no brainer to me especially since we are about 5 blocks from the Greenwich border

You're right. You can also attend and play in another school/town if you pay tuition to attend that school. Maria Conlon (UConn alum and National Champion) lived in Derby, but her parents paid tuition for her to attend and play basketball in neighboring Seymour. Derby's program sucked, Seymour was a state title contender.

 

[JMick]

You're right. You can also attend and play in another school/town if you pay tuition to attend that school. Maria Conlon (UConn alum and National Champion) lived in Derby, but her parents paid tuition for her to attend and play basketball in neighboring Seymour. Derby's program sucked, Seymour was a state title contender.

I see no problem paying tuition or physically moving. There are kids who do not actually live in the districts they play for, though. I believe that's the rumor of what's supposedly going on with a CCC school right now.

 

[kris1]

Some schools find a way around the "recruiting" rules. Jack Cochran was a master of it at all his stops as a CCC head coach. He assembled, arguably, the greatest CT high school team ever when he was at Bloomfield. Many of those players didn't reside in Bloomfield. When Cochran was at New London, he was able to draw talent from surrounding towns. Cochran urged NL school official to gain magnet school status. It was a smart move on his part. New London has always been a proud program, but being a magnet school opened up a whole new talent pool. His NL team in 2007, with Jordan Reed at QB, was bigger up front then some FCS teams. They were the states highest scoring offense. Unfortunately, they ran into a very physical Ansonia team, lead by Alex Thomas, in the state final. Ansonia physically man-handled them that day, winning 35-0.