Couple of thoughts after the game

[Kibitzer]

Name a better enter than Dolson this year.

Kevin Durant.

OOPS!

I forgot. He's not a "true" or "pure" center.

 

[Icebear]

Nor a woman.

 

[Phil]

Nor a woman.

If we want to be picky, the original question didn't ask about centers, but assuming that was meant, no restriction that it has to be a woman.

So I propose

Mike Pouncey

 

[DobbsRover2]

Besides all the other plaudits you could give to Dolson, one of the most telling for me would be to count the times Meghan says, "They're battling so hard to make sure Dolson doesn't beat them in the paint that they're leaving the perimeter open." Opposing teams have kind of given up on really stopping Stewie because of her freakish abilities so they just hope to bump Stef around enough so she can't cut in for an easy layup. But to do that they leave so many opportunities open for the Huskies. Stef's like this big sucking-in vortex of opposing players that opens up big free areas for her teammates.

The other thing with the statistics is that it is insane not to highlight all the blocks she's getting this year (and really, how many assist blocks she should get as shooters spin away from her right into Stewie for an easy block). Secondly, that's not just 3.5 assists per game, that's 3.5 assists BY A CENTER. Most centers are considered good if they average more than 1 apg, and Mercedes Russell is at 0.6 apg. To ignore the magnitude of Dolson's 3.5 apg is like mentioning a catcher who hits 45 HRs but saying there's players at other positions who got more. Yeah, but........

 

[Buzzyboy]

1. Kiah Stokes has a beautiful free throw shot. She looks pretty good on the 15 ft. FG attempts as well just doesn't quite have the confidence to take them very often. Also has made a nice baseline move twice now in two games.
2. The ONLY player on Uconn with an A/TO ratio below 1.0 is Morgan Tuck! (8 A/11 TO) Everyone else including the walk ons is above the 1.0 mark.
3. This game raised the margin of victory to 37.8 points (NCAA record territory) and dropped the defensive FG% to 30.9. Smart me - I predicted that with Morgan out and the team playing more zone we should expect the team to struggle maintaining those stats and they go out and improve on both.
4. Geno complains that this team is too nice - tonight that was a pretty vicious beat down with no mercy. 19-0 to start, 35 point spread by half time and added another 26 to the margin in the second half with KLaw playing 7 minutes.
5. Team ended up shooting 76% and 89% from 3 in the second half.
6. In the first 10:35 of the second half the team went 10 for 10 from the field with 5 three pointers. Stewart broke the string by missing a lay-up and in the process costing Bria an assists. Of course Stewart tapped in her own miss and the next offensive possession Bria hit a three followed by Kiah getting a conventional 3 pt play. The next miss by Chong was rebounded by Jefferson and led to another Stewart 3 followed by a Jefferson 3 followed by a Jefferson lay-up, followed by another Stokes 3 pt play, followed by a Jefferson lay-up. That takes us to the 2:02 mark of the second half where for the first time Uconn misses a shot and does not get the offensive rebound. Up to that moment Uconn had missed two shots in the second half and had rebounded both misses and scored!!!
7. As a summary of point 6 - Uconn went 18-20 with two offensive rebounds in the first 17:58 of the second half including 8 three pointers.
8. Luckily for SMU Uconn also committed 9 turnovers during those 18 minutes or the score might really have gotten out of hand!!!

I'm thinking that there is a pretty decent chance that UConn might set those records for victory margin and defensive field goal percentage that you mentioned but with the move to the new conference and the quality of competition in this new league, it may not really be quite as big an achievement. I think the UConn women are a wonderfully tuned machine, both offensively and defensively but I think the competition (outside of their out of conference schedule and the Louisville, Rutgers games) is not nearly as good as the competition they've experienced over the past years in the Big East conference. Given time, I have hopes that UConn's influence may spur recruitment and interest in women's basketball in this new conference and that we can expect to see some high quality and highly competitive games in the near future. I know Geno is a big advocate of the continued improvement of the women's game and what better place to start then in our new conference.

 

[blackbird]

Yes, ones using position consideration. Without a doubt any using 10 on the first team.

BB, I do believe that Stef has been better than everyone but Stewie including Bria. You may not be impressed with her numbers but it is almost a double double. She has assists like a guard and often makes the pass before the assist to the correct position, she sets continual picks and screens (sometimes as many as half a dozen per possession), most games the offense runs through her, she has had numerous double doubles, she is rebounding better than when she was an AA last year. She makes the best entry passes into Stewie in the low post, she forces teams to guard her in the high and low post and consistently finds the open shooter for 3. There is not another center in the country that runs the court better than Stef. She plays tremendous D and regularly cuts off flashers passing their defender and stops them completely. Just like Kelly statistics come nowhere near telling the story of Stef's importance. How far do you think this team would get without her.

She is likely a top 3 draft pick and will go higher than Bria. Consider a top 3 pick not being a AA. Foolishness is what that would be. No one on the team has a more complete skill set and BB IQ than Stef.

She'll go higher than Bria because she's a 6'5 skilled center.

That doesn't mean she's performing better than Bria. Like I said, I have to question anyone who suggests she's performed better than Stewart or Hartley. You don't think that Bria, Moriah, Breanna or Kaleena do things that don't show up in the box score? And you can't just ignore the boxscore in itself when there is that much of a difference.

I'm not suggesting Stef is playing poorly. I'm suggesting she's being outperformed by two, and possibly three, of her teammates. I know she's skilled. She's a unique big girl in that way. But Stewart and Hartley have performed better, particularly against the best teams.

I don't think this team could win a championship without Hartley, Stewart, or Dolson. And it'll be a struggle without Jefferson or Kaleena but probably doable. But at the end of the day, this team has a better shot without Dolson than it does without Stewart or Hartley.

Like I said, if Uconn has a third player...it'll be Stef. But she hasn't performed as well as Hartley or Stewart and if voters only want two Uconn players on the team, those two should be it. And I'm not quite sure what they consider as positions (Have they switched to the posts and guards format instead of exact positions? Is Ogumike going to be considered a Center?) but that could certainly help her.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Awards are given based on performance. She hasn't been better than Stewart or Hartley this season. Anyone thinking otherwise doesn't understand basketball. Awards aren't given based on how crucial a player is..(although, I think this "2 central players" is a bit odd. Sure, Uconn's offensive and defensive structure is centered around the fact that we have a 6'5 skilled post and a 6'4 skilled post. Geno would be silly not to. That doesn't mean those two have performed better than those around them. And it also doesn't mean they are more important. At this point, I don't think any Uconn player is more crucial than the other, especially given the depth.)

She's a great player. And she'll be Uconn's third All American if Uconn gets a third All American. But I have no problem saying some of her teammates have performed better than her. Against the top 25:

Hartley- 18.14 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 4.2 apg

Stewart- 20.4 ppg, 8.14 rpg, 2 apg

Dolson – 9.7 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 3,5 apg

Jefferson – 9.14 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5 apg

Sure, stats aren't everything..but when's the last time someone was an All American that didn't average double digit points against the top teams?

And Despite the slight statistics edge, I think Jefferson's been better as well. But that's up for debate. (And I'd argue it's easier for a 6'5 player to get a rebound than it is for a player to get an assist, making the statistics a wash.) What's not up for debate, is who Uconn's best two players have been.

I think it's silly to minimize the effect of Dolson on this team and her statistics don't do her any justice at all. She's such a key element on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that I think talks of UConn going undefeated over the next couple of years may be a little premature. She is the conduit of everything that UConn does and with her out of the lineup I'm not sure against better competition that UConn will be nearly as successful. Next year I think more people will truly understand what she has meant for this team over the last couple of years. Her presence allows Breanna Stewart to show off her brilliance and helps make Bria Hartley a better player. Just visualize her as a quarterback because almost always, offensively, the ball goes through her. With her pivots creating misdirection opportunities and her abilities to find the "right" open person, who can either shoot, drive to the hoop or with a skip pass to someone else, get the ball to the truly open person who then scores, Stef is so valuable to this team that statistics will never truly do her justice. I'm not foolish enough to believe that she's "everything" to this team but I can say with every fibre of my being, that had she not forced herself to play (and play at the level that she did) last year in the tournament, there is absolutely no possibility UConn would have won the National Championship. For her to play so effectively with legs that mere mortals would have trouble just walking on, was indeed something very special. Beyond that, her emotional contribution to this team goes beyond words. She'll truly be missed next year, though I'm hopeful that she's guided the Kia Stokes and Morgan Tucks to do a fair imitation by next year.

 

[Kibitzer]

I'm thinking that there is a pretty decent chance that UConn might set those records for victory margin and defensive field goal percentage that you mentioned but with the move to the new conference and the quality of competition in this new league, it may not really be quite as big an achievement.

It is foolish to place a value (or lack thereof) on sports records by gauging the quality (or lack thereof) of the opposition.

Would Ty Cobb hit .400 vs. Sandy Koufax? Could Cooz guard LeBron? Bill Tilden vs. Ramon Nadal?

If UConn sets records for victory margins and defensive field goal perdentage, put them in the books.

With no asterisk, please.

 

[calpedaler]

Bill Tilden vs. Ramon Nadal?

I'm going to say yes he could. He might have trouble with Rafael, though.

 

[boontonbomber]

I think it's silly to minimize the effect of Dolson on this team and her statistics don't do her any justice at all. She's such a key element on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball that I think talks of UConn going undefeated over the next couple of years may be a little premature. She is the conduit of everything that UConn does and with her out of the lineup I'm not sure against better competition that UConn will be nearly as successful. Next year I think more people will truly understand what she has meant for this team over the last couple of years. Her presence allows Breanna Stewart to show off her brilliance and helps make Bria Hartley a better player. Just visualize her as a quarterback because almost always, offensively, the ball goes through her. With her pivots creating misdirection opportunities and her abilities to find the "right" open person, who can either shoot, drive to the hoop or with a skip pass to someone else, get the ball to the truly open person who then scores, Stef is so valuable to this team that statistics will never truly do her justice. I'm not foolish enough to believe that she's "everything" to this team but I can say with every fibre of my being, that had she not forced herself to play (and play at the level that she did) last year in the tournament, there is absolutely no possibility UConn would have won the National Championship. For her to play so effectively with legs that mere mortals would have trouble just walking on, was indeed something very special. Beyond that, her emotional contribution to this team goes beyond words. She'll truly be missed next year, though I'm hopeful that she's guided the Kia Stokes and Morgan Tucks to do a fair imitation by next year.

uconn won the last 4 games of the tourney last season by 26, 30, 18, and 33 points. which of those games do you think they would have lost without Stef? she certainly gutted it out in a very painful situation, but they would have won without her. i hope that she's full strength this year, though, as they will probably need her to play well to beat notre dame.

 

[JoePgh]

The question of whether Stef is the best center in the country is a good one. Given that Chiney Ogwumike plays center for Stanford (even though her natural position is the 4), the talent judges might have to conclude that Chiney's stats are better than Stef's -- her points per game are conspicuous, and she is a better rebounder. I agree that neither Natalie Achonwa nor Elizabeth Williams is better than Stef, and I can't think of anyone else who might plausibly claim the "best center" title.

I think it's pretty clear that the first 3 WNBA draft choices will be Chiney, Odyssey Sims, and Alyssa Thomas -- probably in that order. Then I think Kayla McBride of Notre Dame and possibly Tricia Liston of Duke will go before Stef or Bria. But I doubt that either one of the UConn seniors will be on the board by the 10th pick.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I'm thinking that there is a pretty decent chance that UConn might set those records for victory margin and defensive field goal percentage that you mentioned but with the move to the new conference and the quality of competition in this new league, it may not really be quite as big an achievement.

As has been noted before, Massey index that has a schedule rating system that is more nuanced for elite teams like UConn and actually equates two games against a #2 and a #200 team as being much tougher than two games against a #99 and a #100 teams, unlike the other rating services. Massey has UConn rated with the #1 SOS this year, so any comments about UConn being docked for having a weak "quality of competition" schedule should probably be marked with an asterisk (for asininity). When has any NCAA record ever depended on any team's conference? Should Stanford's record be discounted this year because they play in a PAC conference that is ranked behind the AAC for the Sagarin Simple Average? Should the B1G teams be discounted because the conference can't field one top 12 team?

Yeah, I know that Realtime RPI has UConn SOS at #25 and its power rating at #4 and thus deserving of your asterisk, but I'll stick with the Massey view that has UConn at #1 in both SOS and power rating.

 

[DobbsRover2]

uconn won the last 4 games of the tourney last season by 26, 30, 18, and 33 points. which of those games do you think they would have lost without Stef? she certainly gutted it out in a very painful situation, but they would have won without her. i hope that she's full strength this year, though, as they will probably need her to play well to beat notre dame.

With UConn on a roll last year in the tourney, it's hard to say who besides Stewie, KLM and Kelly were absolutely essential. But that's one of those what-if game that no one can answer. All that I can say is that no matter the final 18 point margin in the semis, when the margin was just 7 points with under 12 minutes to go against a team that had taken UConn out at the end in three games already, I considered Stef's 5-blocks presence in the middle to be essential to shutting down Diggins' inside moves and a big part of the 6 TOs that went with Diggins' 8 assists.

Also in the what-if game, the feeling was that UConn's NC would have to go through Baylor (or maybe Stanford). That ultimately did not happen, but Stef was critical for either of those match-ups.

 

[watanabe]

perhaps, until we leave......

 

[UcMiami]

I'm thinking that there is a pretty decent chance that UConn might set those records for victory margin and defensive field goal percentage that you mentioned but with the move to the new conference and the quality of competition in this new league, it may not really be quite as big an achievement. I think the UConn women are a wonderfully tuned machine, both offensively and defensively but I think the competition (outside of their out of conference schedule and the Louisville, Rutgers games) is not nearly as good as the competition they've experienced over the past years in the Big East conference. Given time, I have hopes that UConn's influence may spur recruitment and interest in women's basketball in this new conference and that we can expect to see some high quality and highly competitive games in the near future. I know Geno is a big advocate of the continued improvement of the women's game and what better place to start then in our new conference.

But ... the scoring margin record is from 2001-2 and I am not sure that competition in the BE was any great shakes. ND was defending NC but had started their decent into the wilderness already - 7 loss season lost their first game in the BE tournament to Syracuse and lost in the second round of the NCAAs. Rutgers hadn't arrived yet so there wasn't a lot of competition back then. Other than Uconn at #1, the final 2002 poll had only BC at #21 for the BE and I am pretty sure the OOC that year was not as good as this years.

 

[Icebear]

With UConn on a roll last year in the tourney, it's hard to say who besides Stewie, KLM and Kelly were absolutely essential. But that's one of those what-if game that no one can answer. All that I can say is that no matter the final 18 point margin in the semis, when the margin was just 7 points with under 12 minutes to go against a team that had taken UConn out at the end in three games already, I considered Stef's 5-blocks presence in the middle to be essential to shutting down Diggins' inside moves and a big part of the 6 TOs that went with Diggins' 8 assists.

Also in the what-if game, the feeling was that UConn's NC would have to go through Baylor (or maybe Stanford). That ultimately did not happen, but Stef was critical for either of those match-ups.

Well said, Dobbs. Too many people live with the illusion that point spread is where the game is played and won. Remove Stef from those games and you change everything about the offense and defense. You change leadership and you move the offense out its structure around Stef in the post and the team would have struggled and likely lost at least one if not two of those games.

 

[Kibitzer]

Enough of this "what-if" fantasizing. The NCAA WCBB trophy resides permanently in Storrs, not Waco, South Bend, Palo Alto, or Louisville. The prize goes to the last team standing, no matter the circuitous route taken to get there.

 

[boontonbomber]

With UConn on a roll last year in the tourney, it's hard to say who besides Stewie, KLM and Kelly were absolutely essential. But that's one of those what-if game that no one can answer. All that I can say is that no matter the final 18 point margin in the semis, when the margin was just 7 points with under 12 minutes to go against a team that had taken UConn out at the end in three games already, I considered Stef's 5-blocks presence in the middle to be essential to shutting down Diggins' inside moves and a big part of the 6 TOs that went with Diggins' 8 assists.

Also in the what-if game, the feeling was that UConn's NC would have to go through Baylor (or maybe Stanford). That ultimately did not happen, but Stef was critical for either of those match-ups.

what-if stef didn't turn the ball over 7 times in that game? maybe uconn would have won by more. who knows? of course, much is made of stef's importance in the flow of the offense , and her passing. but looking at this years stats, though, her A/TO ratio is 1.4, the lowest of the starters.

 

[phil sampieri]

what-if stef didn't turn the ball over 7 times in that game? maybe uconn would have won by more. who knows? of course, much is made of stef's importance in the flow of the offense , and her passing. but looking at this years stats, though, her A/TO ratio is 1.4, the lowest of the starters.

Could it be that she gets double and triple teamed more than anyone on the team ?

 

[trisailin]

Awards are given based on performance.

I have to raise an objection at this point.

Awards SHOULD be based on performance but many times they are not. How often is an award based on popularity, reputation, good lobbying or some other non-performance factor? And the reverse is true too. While the performance might be there, sometimes awards are not given because "too many from one team", "they have a bad attitude", or some other you name it factor.

 

[DobbsRover2]

what-if stef didn't turn the ball over 7 times in that game? maybe uconn would have won by more. who knows? of course, much is made of stef's importance in the flow of the offense , and her passing. but looking at this years stats, though, her A/TO ratio is 1.4, the lowest of the starters.

So um, how much did UConn have to win by to make you happy? Was the 17 point margin too small, so now if Stef hadn't gotten some of those TOs they might have won by say 25, and we all could be happy? First you say that Stef's presence wasn't that important because of those huge victory margins, and now you're saying that Stef screwed up her team with her TOs? The point is to win the games, and I think that Stef's big presence in the middle on defense, blocking shots, grabbing rebounds etc. had a big impact on those games, and I don't really care that they could have beaten ND by 19 if she hadn't turned it over with three minutes to go.

Again, you have got to be kidding about the assist\TO griping, right? You're complaining that Stef is behind the team's PG???? That the guards and forwards being ahead of a center is a problem???? That is priceless! Again, that's like a baseball fan complaining that his catcher only had 48 HRs while the 1B hit 50, or that the CF had less assists than the SS.

True centers on WCBB teams are considered good if they have an A\TO ratio of 0.80, which is about what Duke's Williams has at 0.79. UTenn's centers are at 0.43 for Russell and 0.36 for Harrison, WVU's Bussie is at 0.44, and Texas's McGee-Stafford is at a minimal 0.13. Stanford's Ogwumike is also kind of playing center this year and she's at 0.81. So Dolson at 1.4 is many levels above the other top centers in the country, which is why Geno is marveling at her passing abilities and thinks she may be the country's top center. To put it even more in perspective for UConn fans, the supreme Tina Charles only had a 0.71 A\TO ratio in her senior year. So yes, Stef is a monumental wonder.

But while you're at it, why don't you ask MoJeff why she's so far behind Stef in the blocks and rebounds totals? That makes about as much sense as your gripe about Stef's A\TO ratio.

 

[miked1958]

1. Kiah Stokes has a beautiful free throw shot. She looks pretty good on the 15 ft. FG attempts as well just doesn't quite have the confidence to take them very often. Also has made a nice baseline move twice now in two games.
2. The ONLY player on Uconn with an A/TO ratio below 1.0 is Morgan Tuck! (8 A/11 TO) Everyone else including the walk ons is above the 1.0 mark.
3. This game raised the margin of victory to 37.8 points (NCAA record territory) and dropped the defensive FG% to 30.9. Smart me - I predicted that with Morgan out and the team playing more zone we should expect the team to struggle maintaining those stats and they go out and improve on both.
4. Geno complains that this team is too nice - tonight that was a pretty vicious beat down with no mercy. 19-0 to start, 35 point spread by half time and added another 26 to the margin in the second half with KLaw playing 7 minutes.
5. Team ended up shooting 76% and 89% from 3 in the second half.
6. In the first 10:35 of the second half the team went 10 for 10 from the field with 5 three pointers. Stewart broke the string by missing a lay-up and in the process costing Bria an assists. Of course Stewart tapped in her own miss and the next offensive possession Bria hit a three followed by Kiah getting a conventional 3 pt play. The next miss by Chong was rebounded by Jefferson and led to another Stewart 3 followed by a Jefferson 3 followed by a Jefferson lay-up, followed by another Stokes 3 pt play, followed by a Jefferson lay-up. That takes us to the 2:02 mark of the second half where for the first time Uconn misses a shot and does not get the offensive rebound. Up to that moment Uconn had missed two shots in the second half and had rebounded both misses and scored!!!
7. As a summary of point 6 - Uconn went 18-20 with two offensive rebounds in the first 17:58 of the second half including 8 three pointers.
8. Luckily for SMU Uconn also committed 9 turnovers during those 18 minutes or the score might really have gotten out of hand!!!

All this for a playoff system that allows everyone to make it regardless of where you finish in standings for the Conference Tourney. I realize the Big East was similar but with all the extra teams they had not everyone made it. This year even on the men's side what's the point of the regular season if no one is eliminated from conference playoff contention? I realize you play to make the Big Dance, but these meaningless tourneys can hurt your Seed in March Maddness if a top team just has an off night against an also ran bottom dweller of the " American "

 

[Kibitzer]

Hmmmm. Talk about deceptive stats for centers.

I have mentioned this before. Bill Russell's lifetime free throw shooting percentage was only 56%!

There is no record of Red Auerbach, any of Russ's Celtics teammates (over 13 years and 11 championships), or any knowledgeable fan ever expressing the slightest disappointment or displeasure over this dismal stat.

There was no Boneyard back in his day. I guess that explains it.

 

[UcMiami]

I'll go with Geno's assessment that Stef is the most important player on the court to the team's offense. When she is on the court there are few times when the offense does not flow through her. When she is off the court there are a lot of times where the team's offense stagnates. Even with the great guards, Stewart and Kaleena, and the pretty solid bench, when Stef comes out of the game there is a very noticeable change in offense even in the games where statistically she has done very little. Bria gets a wide open three assisted by Moriah but where is her defender - hung up ten feet away behind Stef. Stewart pops for a three, same story. Stewart wide open under the basket - for some reason there are two defenders draped behind Stef.

 

[UcMiami]

All this for a playoff system that allows everyone to make it regardless of where you finish in standings for the Conference Tourney. I realize the Big East was similar but with all the extra teams they had not everyone made it. This year even on the men's side what's the point of the regular season if no one is eliminated from conference playoff contention? I realize you play to make the Big Dance, but these meaningless tourneys can hurt your Seed in March Maddness if a top team just has an off night against an also ran bottom dweller of the " American "

The last years of the BE every team made the tournament. And lets face it - you aren't a great team if you lose to one of the also rans in your conference. The reason to have all the teams at the tournament is because that is typically when the league awards are presented and it is nice to have everyone there. For some of the one bid conferences it is a problem because it really does make the regular season meaningless, but for the bigger conferences ... the best teams are making the NCAAs anyway, the middle of the pack has a chance to impress in a last go round, and every once in a very long while a bottom dweller wins the lottery. I have no problem with that.
As for seedings in the NCAAs - the committees always produce head scratchers, and to get to the FF you are going to have to beat two very good teams and sometimes three so all the complaining and angst doesn't change that fact. And at the FF you have to win two really tough games.
The complaints I have are more of the two teams placed in the same region that have already played three times kind of thing. And regardless of where teams are seeded or sent this time around for the women, I think the committee 1. choosing to permit hosting of regionals, and 2. choosing three midwestern regional sites and a west coast site is probably the stupidest, most bone headed action EVER. They should all be fired and then tarred and feathered, and then hung in the rafters at the final four! Maybe that would improve attendance!