Could this College team beat a WNBA team?

[bballnut90]

No. And for the world championship no college player made it
Player's like Stewie, and Candace made it
This is a weak draft with no really great players.

It's a very strong draft even if there isnt an obvious number one. There isnt an obvious impact player out of the class like there usually is, but I'd guess 10-15 players from this class will have long careers.

 

[bballnut90]

I think 2016 UCONN would be able to beat a couple of the bottom feeders, especially if the bottom feeders have chemistry issues. The 2016 team had a WNBA starting PG, an All-WNBA forward and a role player in the starting 5. Nurse and KLS would hold their own even if they'd be liabilities in areas. Then you have Geno coaching compared to a revolving door of coaches in the W. I think they'd do better than people think.

 

[FanHam]

Zero chance

 

[meyers7]

Will Sophia Loren and Raquel Welch get in a knockdown drag out on my front lawn tonight ? The winner gets to break down my door and beg me for a date.

Can that happen ????

Would you want them to? You need to work on your fantasies a bit. At least bring them into the 1980's.

 

['nuff sed]

I think 2016 UCONN would be able to beat a couple of the bottom feeders, especially if the bottom feeders have chemistry issues. The 2016 team had a WNBA starting PG, an All-WNBA forward and a role player in the starting 5. Nurse and KLS would hold their own even if they'd be liabilities in areas. Then you have Geno coaching compared to a revolving door of coaches in the W. I think they'd do better than people think.

Interesting.....depends on how much damage Stewie could do. Mo Jeff certainly no issue with game speed.
I think KLS would have difficulty at F, I don't think she would generally be allowed to get her shot, and she not a rebounder. I'd like to see though. And if you play her at SG gotta figure somebody can take her off the dribble. Gabby would be Gabby, they may find that they have to keep Tuck on the floor.

I think team defending would be a prob, and rebounding..and most likely match up probs.....its not just speed, its the physical side too. I think too many players playing out of their element, but Geno comes up with the best game plan, he's not going to get out coached.

Not fair putting qualifiers on the opposition like chemistry issues.

Interesting....But they'd still lose.......Stewie would have to have a triple double and Mo would have to bomb a bunch of 3's to have a chance. Just IMHO

 

['nuff sed]

Would you want them to? You need to work on your fantasies a bit. At least bring them into the 1980's.

Well that's true......but my unfulfilled fantasy list stands at zero.....and I never found the need to think up another one.

80's ??? I polished the list off before the 80's ended.

By the time I turned 40 I just declared my wife a trophy wife and skipped over all the middle age BS. Truth is, I was probably just too lazy to do anything else.

I am a very boring person.....but I love being boring. Just love it.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Sorry but I gotta disagree with most of you guys a tiny bit. Not saying that team would win if you threw them in together with no practice, but Pheesa was one of the final 14 and almost made Team USA for the tryouts. And... she was competing against the best in the world. So to say her talent level is not close to a crap team like Indiana I think is unfair.

So my point, take all those players the OP listed (or the top 2 at every position), give them a good coach and a month or so to practice together, and I'm betting they would give the lesser teams in the WNBA a run for their money. Keep in mind that some of the worst teams in the WNBA do not have future Olympians on their roster. I suspect that the starting 5 listed by @bbballfan23 will at least be in the pool for Team USA 3-5 years down the road if not sooner.

@EricLA , with all due, consider a few things.

Team USA tryouts did not have a full complement of players. Yes, Napheesa Collier was one of the final 14 players for the 2018 Women's World Cup. But the following WNBA players (non-exhaustive list) either turned down invitations or were not asked to participate in the tryouts:

• Maya Moore
• Sylvia Fowles
• DeWanna Bonner
• Angel McCougtry
• Allie Quigley
• Chelsea Gray
• Chiney Ogwumike
• Candice Dupree
• Kristi Toliver
• Natasha Howard
• Alyssa Thomas

In addition, one must factor in the international players or American players who play for international teams, who, obviously, were not part of Team USA tryouts:

• Liz Cambage
• Jonquel Jones
• Courtney Vandersloot
• Emma Meesseman

Using the fact that Collier was one of the 14 finalists for Team USA does not tell the entire story, when the above list has 11 players -- who are established WNBA stars and who elected not to participate in tryouts or did not try out -- who would have been ahead of Collier.

And that is not factoring in the international players in the WNBA on various teams.

The individual and collective talent level is so much greater in the WNBA than it is in college.

 

[EricSD]

@EricLA , with all due, consider a few things.

Team USA tryouts did not have a full complement of players. Yes, Napheesa Collier was one of the final 14 players for the 2018 Women's World Cup. But the following WNBA players (non-exhaustive list) either turned down invitations or were not asked to participate in the tryouts:

• Maya Moore
• Sylvia Fowles
• DeWanna Bonner
• Angel McCougtry
• Allie Quigley
• Chelsea Gray
• Chiney Ogwumike
• Candice Dupree
• Kristi Toliver
• Natasha Howard
• Alyssa Thomas

In addition, one must factor in the international players or American players who play for international teams, who, obviously, were not part of Team USA tryouts:

• Liz Cambage
• Jonquel Jones
• Courtney Vandersloot
• Emma Meesseman

Using the fact that Collier was one of the 14 finalists for Team USA does not tell the entire story, when the above list has 11 players -- who are established WNBA stars and who elected not to participate in tryouts or did not try out -- who would have been ahead of Collier.

And that is not factoring in the international players in the WNBA on various teams.

The individual and collective talent level is so much greater in the WNBA than it is in college.

True but we aren't talking about college players playing team USA. We are talking about them playing the worst team in the league, none of who would sniff Team USA. Of all the players you listed, only Dupree plays for the Fever, and her Team USA days are done. Achonwa also is on the Fever and she plays for Team Canada, but Nurse was a starter for them while still in college...

Who knows? Maybe I'm way off. I just don't see that much of a talent gap between college all-stars and the Fever, especially if the all-stars had time to practice together. Then again I know I'm in the minority in thinking the college kids could make a decent game of it...

Then again, most rookies struggle their first season in the W, even the really good ones, so maybe it would be a massacre by the Fever. I know it takes at least a year for most to acclimate (ie. Kelsey Plum)...

 

[Lynx23]

I think 2016 UCONN would be able to beat a couple of the bottom feeders, especially if the bottom feeders have chemistry issues. The 2016 team had a WNBA starting PG, an All-WNBA forward and a role player in the starting 5. Nurse and KLS would hold their own even if they'd be liabilities in areas. Then you have Geno coaching compared to a revolving door of coaches in the W. I think they'd do better than people think.

Oh Lord, we're not still referring to Kia as a "role player", are we? If my math is correct and we still are, she did make the AP WNBA All-Rookie Team this past season, and she will be a starter from Day 1 on the Liberty this year, as she has been on the Canadian National Team and more recently Australia's UC Capitals. In fact, she's 4th in the league (WNBL) in scoring and second in the league in minutes per game played. If it's not Kia to whom you refer, I stand corrected. I think you and I might have discussed this before and you're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't understand your point of view.

 

[triaddukefan]

Oh Lord, we're not still referring to Kia as a "role player", are we? If my math is correct and we still are, she did make the AP WNBA All-Rookie Team this past season, and she will be a starter from Day 1 on the Liberty this year, as she has been on the Canadian National Team and more recently Australia's UC Capitals. In fact, she's 4th in the league (WNBL) in scoring and second in the league in minutes per game played. If it's not Kia to whom you refer, I stand corrected. I think you and I might have discussed this before and you're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't understand your point of view.

I think he or she was talking about Tuck.. as being a role player in the WNBA currently.... at least thats how I read it.

 

[Dillon77]

Hell to the never no.

That's another phrase that has got to be trademarked.
Too bad it came five years after my last teenager moved into the next decade.

 

[bballnut90]

Oh Lord, we're not still referring to Kia as a "role player", are we? If my math is correct and we still are, she did make the AP WNBA All-Rookie Team this past season, and she will be a starter from Day 1 on the Liberty this year, as she has been on the Canadian National Team and more recently Australia's UC Capitals. In fact, she's 4th in the league (WNBL) in scoring and second in the league in minutes per game played. If it's not Kia to whom you refer, I stand corrected. I think you and I might have discussed this before and you're entitled to your opinion, but I just don't understand your point of view.

Was referring to Morgan Tuck being a WNBA role player right after her senior season.

Last time I think we came to the conclusion that we have different definitions of what a role player is. Next time you see me use the word 'role player,' I suggest you keep this in mind instead of getting offended by my word choice describing a player.

 

[CocoHusky]

I get tired of seeing the stuff like can Duke beat an NBA team or can Alabama beat an NFL team but what about a mix of the best college players by position. Could this team beat a WNBA team? Interesting to think about.
PG) Ionescu
SG) Durr
SF) Lou
PF) Pheesa
C) McGowan
Bench...
Arike, A. Smith, Kelani Brown
Only chose 8 obviously we could add more.

Let's take the worst team in the WNBA last year which was the Fever.
Fever starting 5 was C. Dupree ,N. Achonwa, C. Pondexter, E. Wheeler & V. Vivians. Not exactly a formidable WNBA lineup IMO.
Dupree loses to either Brown or McGowan.
Achonwa loses the matchup with Pheesa.
KLS wins her matchup with Cappie.
Arike or Durr wins the matchup with Wheeler.
Ionescu wins her matchup with Vivians.
I guess I would have to answer yes. This proposed squad could beat a WNBA team-maybe a few WNBA teams.

 

[Lynx23]

Ni

Was referring to Morgan Tuck being a WNBA role player right after her senior season.

Last time I think we came to the conclusion that we have different definitions of what a role player is. Next time you see me use the word 'role player,' I suggest you keep this in mind instead of getting offended by my word choice describing a player.

Not personally offended but I'll own up to an overreaction. It's been a slow day. Carry on!

 

[Fightin Choke]

I do think that the team led by seniors Stewie/Mo/Morgan would have a a decent shot at taking a game from the bottom WNBA team at the time. They would at least have been competitive. IMHO

I disagree. Obviously Stewie has been very successful right out of the gate (career PER 25.5, where 15 is average), but the other players, not so much. Saddled with injury issues, MoJeff has not distinguished herself. Her career PER is 15.6 (15 is average) and she's only started 9 out of the 37 games she played in her 2nd and 3rd years in the W. (She did start all 34 games in her rookie campaign, however.) Morgan Tuck has only started 8 of the 82 games in which she has played, with a below average career PER (11.9). Gabby started 30 of 34 games for the Sky but her PER is below average (13.1). Kia Nurse started 7 of 34 games for the Liberty as a rookie. Her PER was 12.7. The last person who started some games for the 2016 UConn team was freshman KLS. There is no way she was ready for the W at that time. Also, Gabby and Kia were only sophomores at the time. I just can't see that team being very competitive.

 

[VAMike23]

I disagree. Obviously Stewie has been very successful right out of the gate (career PER 25.5, where 15 is average), but the other players, not so much. Saddled with injury issues, MoJeff has not distinguished herself. Her career PER is 15.6 (15 is average) and she's only started 9 out of the 37 games she played in her 2nd and 3rd years in the W. (She did start all 34 games in her rookie campaign, however.) Morgan Tuck has only started 8 of the 82 games in which she has played, with a below average career PER (11.9). Gabby started 30 of 34 games for the Sky but her PER is below average (13.1). Kia Nurse started 7 of 34 games for the Liberty as a rookie. Her PER was 12.7. The last person who started some games for the 2016 UConn team was freshman KLS. There is no way she was ready for the W at that time. Also, Gabby and Kia were only sophomores at the time. I just can't see that team being very competitive.

Interesting stuff -

First off, I certainly had a healthy Mo Jeff in mind - you're right that she has had injury issues. So basically my hypothetical was a healthy UCONN 2016 team against a given year's cellar dweller WNBA team of some recent vintage. Of course, that team could at least partially be a cellar dweller in a given year because of injury issues as well.

Be that as it may, I thought I would look at the seasonal (rather than career) PER's of the five players with the most games started on 2017 Indiana Fever team, because it's how they did that season that made the team cellar dwellers, which was the point of my comparison.
C. Dupree 16.1
E. Wheeler 14.5
B. January 12.0
M. Coleman 5.9
E. Larkins 13.8 (Achonwa started the same number of games but had slightly lower MPG so I chose Larkins)
------------------
Total here is 62.3

Only the 3 seniors from 2016 had WNBA PER's that summer, which was of course the closest season in timing and in health to the way they were playing during their 2016 title run:
Stewart 22.9
Jefferson 16.4
Tuck 13.9

This subtotal is 53.2 so whoever you pick for the next two players would have to be, during the 2016 season at UCONN, the PER equivalent of less than 5 each as WNBA players to beat the Fever total. Gabby and Kia had 13.1 and 12.7 as rookies but were only sophs on the 2016 team, as you point out. But, statistically, they wouldn't have had to do much to both average a 5. Having said this, I'm not talking about the UCONN squad being ready for an entire WNBA season -- I only said they could be competitive and have a "decent shot" at taking [one] game.

Another point to me is that on their own UCONN squad they would be playing in a familiar system with familiar players, just as the WNBA team would (presumably), so this would be a boost to their statistical chances in my mind over a stricltly individual PER based analysis based on their 1st year in the pros in new systems with new players. Certainly there are other arguments that could be made to the contrary.

Hope you don't take this all too seriously; I thought your post was thought provoking as usual, so I wanted to do some more digging.

Keep in mind what a healthy Mo Jeff could do, circa 2016 before her injury:

 

[Fightin Choke]

Interesting stuff -

First off, I certainly had a healthy Mo Jeff in mind - you're right that she has had injury issues. So basically my hypothetical was a healthy UCONN 2016 team against a given year's cellar dweller WNBA team of some recent vintage. Of course, that team could at least partially be a cellar dweller in a given year because of injury issues as well.

Be that as it may, I thought I would look at the seasonal (rather than career) PER's of the five players with the most games started on 2017 Indiana Fever team, because it's how they did that season that made the team cellar dwellers, which was the point of my comparison.
C. Dupree 16.1
E. Wheeler 14.5
B. January 12.0
M. Coleman 5.9
E. Larkins 13.8 (Achonwa started the same number of games but had slightly lower MPG so I chose Larkins)
------------------
Total here is 62.3

Only the 3 seniors from 2016 had WNBA PER's that summer, which was of course the closest season in timing and in health to the way they were playing during their 2016 title run:
Stewart 22.9
Jefferson 16.4
Tuck 13.9

This subtotal is 53.2 so whoever you pick for the next two players would have to be, during the 2016 season at UCONN, the PER equivalent of less than 5 each as WNBA players to beat the Fever total. Gabby and Kia had 13.1 and 12.7 as rookies but were only sophs on the 2016 team, as you point out. But, statistically, they wouldn't have had to do much to both average a 5. Having said this, I'm not talking about the UCONN squad being ready for an entire WNBA season -- I only said they could be competitive and have a "decent shot" at taking [one] game.

Another point to me is that on their own UCONN squad they would be playing in a familiar system with familiar players, just as the WNBA team would (presumably), so this would be a boost to their statistical chances in my mind over a stricltly individual PER based analysis based on their 1st year in the pros in new systems with new players. Certainly there are other arguments that could be made to the contrary.

Hope you don't take this all too seriously; I thought your post was thought provoking as usual, so I wanted to do some more digging.

Keep in mind what a healthy Mo Jeff could do, circa 2016 before her injury:

Thanks for the reply. Great response! But I think you were a little confused on the season. The 2016 class played the summer after graduation, so that would have been the year that Stewie et al. debuted. The PER's of the starting 5 for Indiana that year was:

Catchings: 21.7
Larkins: 17.9
January: 14.4
Coleman: 9.9
Wheeler: 9.1

Total: 70.0

Of course this Indiana team was not a terrible WNBA team that year (17-17). The worst team was San Antonio (7-27), but is MoJeff fast enough to play on both teams at once?

The PER's of San Antonio were pathetic though!

The next worst team was the 11-23 Dallas Wings. Here are the PER's of their starters:

Christmas-Kelly: 16.5
Sims: 12.5
Paris: 16.4
Diggins: 14.0
Pierson: 12.6

Total: 72.0

 

[VAMike23]

Thanks for the reply. Great response! But I think you were a little confused on the season. The 2016 class played the summer after graduation, so that would have been the year that Stewie et al. debuted. The PER's of the starting 5 for Indiana that year was:

Catchings: 21.7
Larkins: 17.9
January: 14.4
Coleman: 9.9
Wheeler: 9.1

Total: 70.0

Of course this Indiana team was not a terrible WNBA team that year (17-17). The worst team was San Antonio (7-27), but is MoJeff fast enough to play on both teams at once?

The PER's of San Antonio were pathetic though!

The next worst team was the 11-23 Dallas Wings. Here are the PER's of their starters:

Christmas-Kelly: 16.5
Sims: 12.5
Paris: 16.4
Diggins: 14.0
Pierson: 12.6

Total: 72.0

Understood — I started digging into the 2017 Fever without regard to the fact that it was a year later — my initial point was more general re: the 2016 Huskies being potentially competitive in 1-game situation against a recent cellar dweller, and I didn’t think the point was weakened by looking at a 2017 team to compare against. They’re of recent vintage and I just thought (and remain of the opinion that) the 2016 UCONN team as a unit would not find itself overmatched against a representative “worst” team in the W, because some of those teams have been pretty woeful. Its like those threads where people go back and forth about UCONN teams from different years and how they’d do against each other — the arguments focus on the strengths of the various teams themselves and the fact that they’re from different years doesnt invalidate any of the entertaining hypotheticals that are posed and discussed. And again, I’m not trying to portray any of this as being deterministic “analysis” in any way — it’s just sports fans being sports fans.

 

[IWearShoes]

Let's take the worst team in the WNBA last year which was the Fever.
Fever starting 5 was C. Dupree ,N. Achonwa, C. Pondexter, E. Wheeler & V. Vivians. Not exactly a formidable WNBA lineup IMO.
Dupree loses to either Brown or McGowan.
Achonwa loses the matchup with Pheesa.
KLS wins her matchup with Cappie.
Arike or Durr wins the matchup with Wheeler.
Ionescu wins her matchup with Vivians.
I guess I would have to answer yes. This proposed squad could beat a WNBA team-maybe a few WNBA teams.

Not really sure how you can make these statements so confidently.

Dupree and Pondexter are in the twilight of their careers, but are multiple time WNBA All-Stars. Pondexter was voted one of the top 15 players in WNBA history some years ago.

Vivians and Ionescu likely wouldn't be guarding each other, but VV played better in both of their head to head matchups in college.

Wheeler was 7th in avg. minutes played per game. Tiffany Mitchell played more.

You also left off the #2 pick in the draft last year, Kelsey Mitchell, who was Indiana's 2nd leading scorer and scored 3,400 points in college.

Not as easy an answer as you make it seem, IMO.

 

[Plebe]

Not really sure how you can make these statements so confidently.

Dupree and Pondexter are in the twilight of their careers, but are multiple time WNBA All-Stars. Pondexter was voted one of the top 15 players in WNBA history some years ago.

Vivians and Ionescu likely wouldn't be guarding each other, but VV played better in both of their head to head matchups in college.

Wheeler was 7th in avg. minutes played per game. Tiffany Mitchell played more.

You also left off the #2 pick in the draft last year, Kelsey Mitchell, who was Indiana's 2nd leading scorer and scored 3,400 points in college.

Not as easy an answer as you make it seem, IMO.

There also seems to be an assumption that WNBA players are no better today than they were in college. Not so. Players entering the pros have to adapt to a MUCH higher level of play, and anyone seeing significant court time, even on the worst of the 12 WNBA teams, has improved since their senior year in college.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not really sure how you can make these statements so confidently.
Dupree and Pondexter are in the twilight of their careers, but are multiple time WNBA All-Stars. Pondexter was voted one of the top 15 players in WNBA history some years ago.
Vivians and Ionescu likely wouldn't be guarding each other, but VV played better in both of their head to head matchups in college.
Wheeler was 7th in avg. minutes played per game. Tiffany Mitchell played more. You also left off the #2 pick in the draft last year, Kelsey Mitchell, who was Indiana's 2nd leading scorer and scored 3,400 points in college.
Not as easy an answer as you make it seem, IMO.

Definitely not an easy answer, what fun would that be? Dupree is one of my all time favorite players since she was putting in work for Dawn at Temple. As you correctly point out she is in the twilight of her career, a former member of USA basketball world championship team and 34 years of age. Candice is not tangling with McGowan or Brown successfully in the post in 2019.
Cappie is two years older than Candice.
There is no D in Kelsey Mitchell and that's all I'm going to say about that.
Tiffany Mitchell over Erica Wheeler is a good call I can definitely see how you would want to go that route.
What is your proposed line up for the Fever?

 

[IWearShoes]

Definitely not an easy answer, what fun would that be? Dupree is one of my all time favorite players since she was putting in work for Dawn at Temple. As you correctly point out she is in the twilight of her career, a former member of USA basketball world championship team and 34 years of age. Candice is not tangling with McGowan or Brown successfully in the post in 2019.
Cappie is two years older than Candice.
There is no D in Kelsey Mitchell and that's all I'm going to say about that.
Tiffany Mitchell over Erica Wheeler is a good call I can definitely see how you would want to go that route.
What is your proposed line up for the Fever?

Dupree, Pondexter, Achonwa, Vivians and K Mitchell with T Mitchell and Wheeler off the bench. No idea how it would go, but I would not be at all surprised if the Fever was much too experienced and savvy for the collegians.

 

[CocoHusky]

Dupree, Pondexter, Achonwa, Vivians and K Mitchell with T Mitchell and Wheeler off the bench. No idea how it would go, but I would not be at all surprised if the Fever was much too experienced and savvy for the collegians.

Ok. I believe that @bbballfan23 proposed college line up was:
Ionescu , Durr, Lou, Pheesa McGowan. Personally I like Brown more than I like McGowan and I like Arike more than I like Durr.

1) Dupree vs . Brown
2) Achonwa vs Napheesa
3) Cappie vs. KLS
4) Vivians vs. Arike
5) K. Mitchell vs. Ionescu
I still think the collegian win matchups 1-5. With McGowan & Durr on my bench I think the collegians win there also.

 

[IWearShoes]

Ok. I believe that @bbballfan23 proposed college line up was:
Ionescu , Durr, Lou, Pheesa McGowan. Personally I like Brown more than I like McGowan and I like Arike more than I like Durr.

1) Dupree vs . Brown
2) Achonwa vs Napheesa
3) Cappie vs. KLS
4) Vivians vs. Arike
5) K. Mitchell vs. Ionescu
I still think the collegian win matchups 1-5. With McGowan & Durr on my bench I think the collegians win there also.

So you believe every current college senior would be better than each of the 5 pros. I'll simply agree to disagree.

 

[Fightin Choke]

So you believe every current college senior would be better than each of the 5 pros. I'll simply agree to disagree.

I agree, IWearShoes. Remember how dominant Plum was in college? It's a different game in the W. Rookie seasons are usually not nearly as impressive as people suspect they will be. Sure there are exceptions, but it is extremely unlikely all 5 of Coco's collegiate starters play like veterans their first season.

 

[CocoHusky]

I agree, IWearShoes. Remember how dominant Plum was in college? It's a different game in the W. Rookie seasons are usually not nearly as impressive as people suspect they will be. Sure there are exceptions, but it is extremely unlikely all 5 of Coco's collegiate starters play like veterans their first season.

First let's get on the same page. Who said anything about a whole season? The original criteria as stated by @bbballfan23 was "Could this team beat a WNBA team?" I took that to mean 1 game. I would invite both you and @IWearShoes to clearly state which of the matchup you have identified would not favor the collegians in a single game. If you want to go to a five game series I would take this lineup of collegians over 2018 Indiana Fever 3 games to 2.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I wasn't talking about a whole season either, so I'm not sure where you got that. When I referred to rookies not being awesome in their first season, I simply meant that they were not so great out right out of college, as it takes a while to adjust to the game. So should we just count the first WNBA game each rookie plays?