Could the Rent Become the Home of the Tampa Bay Rays?

[Waquoit]

i saw a game at Turner the last season. it is probably the most egregious example of a city rolling over for a team beyond Miami.

It was actually the county that put up the dough. And part of the deal was that the stadium was not to be accessible by mass transit. Screw the Braves.

 

[whaler11]

It was actually the county that put up the dough. And part of the deal was that the stadium was not to be accessible by mass transit. Screw the Braves.

Yeah I meant local govt. It may as well be on the darkside of the moon.

 

[Dooley]

OKC is awfully small for a pro market (although Milwaukee has a team). Not much around it other than Tulsa and Wichita. Wichita is a good baseball town, but they are pretty solidly Royals fans. Dallas isn't that far either.
List of metropolitan statistical areas - Wikipedia

South is under-represented in MLB. Nashville and Charlotte stand out to me as good options. Austin-San Antonio combined is a very big market, but Texas does have two teams now.

Good point re: OKC. I'm just going off of how good of a NBA market it has proven to be. I like cities with proven track records of supporting a longer season league (NBA or NHL) first and foremost...but you're right, population size matters too.

The more we're discussing, the more I like Nashville. Charlotte is a good one too. Way too much space between Atlanta and Baltimore/DC region without MLB. And being a drive's distance away from several pretty good sized cities down there would definitely help support a 81 game home slate, particularly weekend series.

 

[Purple Stein]

Looks like the Rays are gonna work their way out of that lease/contract bit by bit ...

Rays to explore splitting home games with Montreal

 

[huskymedic]

Looks like the Rays are gonna work their way out of that lease/contract bit by bit ...

Rays to explore splitting home games with Montreal

.... so they’re not coming to the Rent?

Maybe they can split them 3 ways or move the farm team to New Britain.

 

[huskymedic]

Neill Ostrout @NeillOstrout 11 minutes ago
So maybe there's hope for Hartford to land half an NHL team?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Would Sox and Yankees fans drop their teams for the Hartford Handmaids?

More importantly, the owners of the Yanks and Sox along with the Mets woudl be against moving a MLB franchise into CT, which the 3 teams basically own. With MLB 3 owners, 2 of which are big names, against such, no chance it gets approved even if the Rent could be retrofitted for baseball, which it can't, or, at the very last, would be more expensive than building a new stadium.

I can't find anthing online; but I thought there were rumors way back when Phoeniox, Colorado and the 2 Florida teams were added that CT was interested in an expansion team and sites around Rocky Hill were being looked at (in between Hartford and New Haven). The terrirotry rights that the same 3 teams
had at the time were raised and the talk of a CT MLB expansion team died quickly after.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I’ve been in Tampa all week. You’d have no idea they have an MLB team - forget that it’s an excellent one.

Baseball is big in Tampa in SW Florida during Spring training when families come down for vacations and Spring games in Tampa (Yankees) St. Pete (Phillies), Ft Myers (Twins & Red Sox), etc. There are sign, banners, etc. all over the place and hotels and restaurants really push their services. The rest of the year, back to the beach. The only time in recent memory that Tampa draws well is when the Yanks or Sox are in town, which is sad considering some of the teams that the Rays have had over the years. I've been to 1 Tampa game as I was in Tampa for work and the Yanks just happened to be in town. Tickets were a lot easier to get than in the Bronx.

When Tampa and Miami were announced as expansion teams, there was talk that MLB's own internal reports question the viability of locating 2 teams in Florida due to demographics (age and money), tepid fans, and competing entertainment options (the beach). The report recomended that MLB put only 1 team in the state - Orlando.

 

[whaler11]

Baseball is big in Tampa in SW Florida during Spring training when families come down for vacations and Spring games in Tampa (Yankees) St. Pete (Phillies), Ft Myers (Twins & Red Sox), etc. There are sign, banners, etc. all over the place and hotels and restaurants really push their services. The rest of the year, back to the beach. The only time in recent memory that Tampa draws well is when the Yanks or Sox are in town, which is sad considering some of the teams that the Rays have had over the years. I've been to 1 Tampa game as I was in Tampa for work and the Yanks just happened to be in town. Tickets were a lot easier to get than in the Bronx.

When Tampa and Miami were announced as expansion teams, there was talk that MLB's own internal reports question the viability of locating 2 teams in Florida due to demographics (age and money), tepid fans, and competing entertainment options (the beach). The report recomended that MLB put only 1 team in the state - Orlando.

best of the lot is seeing Jays in Dunedin. Old school stadium and have a tremendous bar under the bleachers with no windows.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Portland, OR, Montreal, and Nashville would be my top 3 cities for relocation. Tampa/St Pete is a horrendous baseball market. If it can't/won't support the Rays, it doesn't deserve a team. The Rays are one of the smartest franchises in all of baseball. If MLB puts that in a market that actually supports it, it would be the best thing for baseball and the franchise.

If relocating Tampa gains steam, I would expect that other cities if they can find some deep pocketed individuals to collaborate will jump in as MLB is the slowest 'moving' league when it comes to expansion and relocation (versus the NHL and MLS for example). Plus, a baseball stadium creates the most people traffic simply based simply on the number of games played each year and that traffic yields a lot of additional development opportunities

Potential North American MLB Cities:

Base) Tampa - #24 Metro 2.975 Million, #11 TV Market, #65 Avg Inc $21,800
Fun) Hartford/New Haven - >#50 Metro 2.063 Million, #33 TV Market, #8 Avg Inc $34,300

1) Austin - #46 Metro 2.000 Million, #40 TV Market, #21 Avg Inc $24,500
2) Charlotte - #32 Metro 2.426 Million, #23 TV Market, #31 Avg Inc $23,400
3) Indianapolis - #47 Metro 1.988 Million, #28 TV Market, #34 Avg Inc $23,200
4) Las Vegas - #42 Metro 2.087 Million, #39 TV Market, #84 Avg Inc $21,200
5) Monterrey - #17 Metro #4.475 Million, #2 TV market (Mexico), N/A Avg Inc
6) Montreal - #19 Metro 4.045 Million, #2 TV Market (Canada), N/A Avg Inc
7) Nashville - >#50 Metro 1.903 Million, #27 TV Market, #26 Avg Inc $24,000
8) Orlando - #34 Metro 2.387 Million, #18 TV Market, #82 Avg Inc $21,200
9) Portland OR - #33 Metro 2.389 Million, #22 TV Market, #10 Avg Inc $31,400
10) San Antonio - #35 Metro 2.389 Million, #31 TV Market, #182 $18,500

Montreal checks-off a lot of critical areas; but, it is in 'Canada' and MLB may not want to just have 1 team in the country's 3rd largest state by population. In an ideal world, Miami and Tampa are merged and move to Orlando opening an expansion slot one of Montreal, Austin, and Portland, which in my mind are the top 3. Vegas is too small and has low income levels on top of an obvious very expensive indoor stadium due to the heat (Vegas's AAA team has seen an attendance boost due to a new stadium built in the Sumerlin suburb in 2019). Charlotte and Nashville are not quiet there yet population wise. Indianapolis is in the Midwest, which is saturated with teams and has a declining population. San Antonio has an income issue. Monterrey was talked about years ago to expand the MLB market; but, moving into Mexico right now is just not feasible for a range of reasons.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

It was actually the county that put up the dough. And part of the deal was that the stadium was not to be accessible by mass transit. Screw the Braves.

I know a lot of folks from Atlanta who think its insane that the new stadium was not built near a MARTA stop considering Atlanta's traffic issue and the current population shifts underway. There's not much parking there, either. MARTA has a poor reputation; but, I have taken it during the day numerous time to/from Hartsfield and downtown Atlanta or Buckhead and have never had an issue. The feeling is that Cobb County officials claim its to keep the rift raft away; but locals in both counties think its to keep a certain demographic from Fulton County away.

Atlanta Braves' New Stadium Is a Disaster for Taxpayers and Fans

It's an economic albatross, built because of an ethically questionable deal, and fans can't even get to the stadium without playing a human version of Frogger.

reason.com

Deadspin | The Braves' New Ballpark Is An Urban Planner's Nightmare

Deadspin | The Braves' New Ballpark Is An Urban Planner's Nightmare

deadspin.com

 

[Waquoit]

...but locals in both counties think its to keep a certain demographic from Fulton County away.

Think?

 

[RyanFoul]

Montreal is a horrible idea. They didn't draw that well even when they had good teams and while putting them in the AL East makes a lot more sense than the NL East like they were before, that's just camouflaging the problem. What you're really saying is they might be able to draw OTHER TEAMS' FANS: the Blue Jays, the Yankees, the Red Sox. Then there's the weather. Then there's the cost of a retractable roof to overcome the weather.

Also ballparks are frequently scapegoated. The Marlins blamed it on the location of their old park and the late afternoon thunderstoms. Then they moved into a retractable downtown ballpark..........and they still don't draw. And that includes when they had Giancarlo Stanton, Christian Yellich and Jose Fernandez.

The Blue Jays played in a horrible park too before moving to the Skydome or whatever it's called this week but they still drew fans. But Toronto is a much more Americanized city than Montreal. Toronto is a good baseball market, Montreal isn't.

 

[Travelman6]

Get the Devil Rays out of Tampa! (IMO)

I think Albuquerque could really work.

 

[CTBballfan243]

Montreal is better

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Montreal is better

Agree, move Tampa to Montreal. Add a pair of expansion teams (as it seems inevitable now) in Charlotte (NL, natural rival for Atlanta) and Portland (AL, rival for Seattle) and move along.

 

[CL82]

.... so they’re not coming to the Rent?

Maybe they can split them 3 ways or move the farm team to New Britain.

Oh don't say that. Some genius in Hartford will propose canceling the baseball field work and building a stadium in East Hartford for UConn in hopes of luring the Rays.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

According to ESPN, the idea of splitting game between Tampa and Montreal is off the table.

St. Pete, Rays halt idea of shared Montreal home

The Rays and the city of St. Petersburg have agreed to abide by their existing agreement, therefore ending any thought of the team playing home games in both the Tampa Bay area and Montreal.

www.espn.com

With the voters and politicians solidly against providing public money for a new stadium in the Tampa Bay area, best guess is the team is good as gone with Montreal and Orlando, whose efforts are now being led by the same guy who got the NBA in Orlando - Pat Williams. The loser will likely be part of a pool with Nashville, Charlotte, Las Vegas, and Portland for a possible pair of MLB expansion teams within the next 10 years. That assumes that the A's long running search for a new stadium finally yields fruit or Oakland could also be on the move along with Arizona.

D-Backs said Chase Field badly needs repairs, but have made almost none since taking over

The Diamondbacks once said Chase Field would need $8 million in repairs this off-season. So why has the team only spent $150,000 since taking control?

www.azcentral.com

The D'back owners seem dead set on leaving Chase Field (it's an ancient 21 years old) for either a new taxpayer subsidized stadium in the Phoenix area or they may look to Las Vegas.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

That stadium was a criminal enterprise from the start.

 

[Pudge]

Montreal is a horrible idea. They didn't draw that well even when they had good teams and while putting them in the AL East makes a lot more sense than the NL East like they were before, that's just camouflaging the problem. What you're really saying is they might be able to draw OTHER TEAMS' FANS: the Blue Jays, the Yankees, the Red Sox. Then there's the weather. Then there's the cost of a retractable roof to overcome the weather.

Also ballparks are frequently scapegoated. The Marlins blamed it on the location of their old park and the late afternoon thunderstoms. Then they moved into a retractable downtown ballpark..........and they still don't draw. And that includes when they had Giancarlo Stanton, Christian Yellich and Jose Fernandez.

The Blue Jays played in a horrible park too before moving to the Skydome or whatever it's called this week but they still drew fans. But Toronto is a much more Americanized city than Montreal. Toronto is a good baseball market, Montreal isn't.

I am telling you 2 things:

Montreal has a rabid core baseball fan base. Most professional analysts know this. And since 1999, the GSMA has grown 25% and has the requisite Corporate sponsors you will never find in a Tampa or several of these other places

Olympic Stadium was the worst experience. A good modern ballpark will fill.

 

[Robertelamin]

I am telling you 2 things:

Montreal has a rabid core baseball fan base. Most professional analysts know this. And since 1999, the GSMA has grown 25% and has the requisite Corporate sponsors you will never find in a Tampa or several of these other places

Olympic Stadium was the worst experience. A good modern ballpark will fill.

Yeah so rabid the team moved to another city because no one showed up

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Yeah so rabid the team moved to another city because no one showed up

Looking at the numbers and my spotty memory, the Expos attendance was not good, about 24K average per game, through 1995, which is not horrid as seen by the Rays and Marlins over the last few years - 15K and 10K average per game respectively of which a huge chunk for the Rays can be credited to Yank and Red Sox fans attending games there.

The Expos had some good teams with guys like Pedro and Raines; but, players were always challenged by Canadian taxes, the exchange rate, and the venue. Olympic Stadium was built in 1976 for the Olympics and was not intended to be converted to a baseball stadium unlike the Brave's Turner Field. By the late 1990's, it was a mess. The team's financials, which were already unstable to begin with, were crushed by the 1995 player's strike, which subsequently lead to payroll purges and ownership changes. By the time the 'San Juan Experiment' was underway less than a decade later, the team was drawing 10K per game, which was considered a calamity by MLB; but, oddly, they don't seem to be as concerned about the Marlins while Tampa is indeed in limbo. MLB, which owned the Expos by that time, had publically declared that the only way to 'save the team, i.e. sell it for a profit, was to move it to DC and sell it (Lerner). The 'talk' of contracting the team was a PR ploy aimed at getting the player's union approval and, more importantly, to keep Baltimore (Angelos) from blocking the move.

As a FYI, MLB 'bought' the Expos from Loria who previously took control of the team from Brochu. Loria expanded the team's payroll from the post-strike level and negotiated a better broadcasting deal, which allowed him to 'sell' the Expos to MLB for a profit and then used that profit to buy the Marlins. The Marlins where for sale because its owner, Henry, wanted to buy the Red Sox. So, in summary, nearly everything wrong with MLB can be ted back to the Red Sox, LOL.

Montreal has is the 19th largest metro area in North America ahead of Seattle, MSP, Denver, and all of the rumored MLB expansion candidates - Orlando, Charlotte, Nashville, Las Vegas, and Portland, and is the largest metro area in the US and Canada that does not have a MLB team. It's also home to some major corporations, which is key for sponsorship and suite sales, such as: Air Canada, Bank of Montreal, Bausch Health Bell Canada, Bombardier, CNR, Molson Coors,etc. The city also strong supports its NHL team (of coruse) and MLS has done well in the city (abouty 18K to 16K aberage per game in a 20K stadium). Thus, with the right ownership, the right stadium (30K to 34K with a retracatble roof) and a commitent to be compettive, I think a MLB team would do well in Montreal.