Could Baylor find itself outside the P5?

[Ldandy]

This.

If nothing happened to Penn State there sure as heck gonna be nothing happening to Baylor. While what is going on at Baylor is terrible, it hasn't even gotten the level of press that the Penn State mess did. What reason would the Big 12 have for wanting to throw them out??? Penn State got sanctioned and then had it reversed/removed a few years down the line and it's like business as usual. The same will occur at Baylor should they hire a coach who can turn it around after the dust settles. The fact that anyone even considers Baylor being kicked out of the Big 12 or P5 at this point is laughable. Should the Big 12 fall apart, that's another story but they aren't getting the boot.

I've never hid the fact that I am a Penn State Alum and love my school. I bite my tongue when I visit here because I'm a guest, and I don't have an issue with people having opinions regarding my school good or bad. I never comment in the threads on your other boards about PSU because I know I will be shouted down by 30 different people with strong opinions on what happened. Saying all that I have to disagree strongly with your comment that it is business as usual at PSU simply because wins were returned or some future scholarships awarded. Sure on the surface that is true, but The NCAA by acting well outside of its stated mission, inflicted heavy financial damage on both the university and surrounding community. It also branded millions of alums and supporters who had zero knowledge of the criminal actions of a retired football coach as some sort of criminal enablers because they care about their school.

Its easy to rage at PSU because the circumstances surrounding Sandusky were very ugly. I get that. It doesn't change the fact that PSU's situation was always a criminal matter that should have been handled by the courts. The NCAA even admitted they had no authority to censure PSU for whatever occurred absent the signing of a consent decree by its interim president. They had to walk back the sanctions as soon as those who were financially harmed by them began to challenge them legally. You don't give back everything you took if you believe you acted properly. PSU Leadership allowed Emmert to make an example of athletics in order to avoid scrutiny elsewhere. The NCAA took advantage of PSU in order to look like the heavy in light of their unbelievable failings in cases like Miami, Auburn, USC, UNC etc.

Baylor will be compared to PSU but the truth is that they are very different situations. Baylor's Transgressions fall smack dab in the middle of what The NCAA is supposed to be governing. The eligibility of student athletes. In reality they should act. They should sanction The Bears. That said I believe that Baylor will offer up some kind of punishment, The NCAA will tack on a little more, and the whole thing will fall of the radar within a few months. It will never get to the level of press PSU received because the story was not framed in a specific manner designed to elicit a desired response, and no one outside of Waco, Texas cares about Art Briles or Baylor.

I am not as convinced that they bounce back quickly when the dust settles. UCONN Fans should know more than most how a bad hire and a few losing seasons could effect attendance for a program that is trying to build a fan base. For you guys there was nothing negative attached to the program, outside of conference affiliation, to keep you from attracting an up and coming coach. Baylor was a nothing program with zero support before a few winning seasons made them relevant. Top coaches and recruits with better options will be staying away for awhile. I believe we have witnessed the pinnacle of Baylor Football. With Texas returning to prominence and future realignment looming their program is far more likely to return to their historical level than it is to remain a top 25 program.

 

[UCFBfan]

I've never hid the fact that I am a Penn State Alum and love my school. I bite my tongue when I visit here because I'm a guest, and I don't have an issue with people having opinions regarding my school good or bad. I never comment in the threads on your other boards about PSU because I know I will be shouted down by 30 different people with strong opinions on what happened. Saying all that I have to disagree strongly with your comment that it is business as usual at PSU simply because wins were returned or some future scholarships awarded. Sure on the surface that is true, but The NCAA by acting well outside of its stated mission, inflicted heavy financial damage on both the university and surrounding community. It also branded millions of alums and supporters who had zero knowledge of the criminal actions of a retired football coach as some sort of criminal enablers because they care about their school.

Its easy to rage at PSU because the circumstances surrounding Sandusky were very ugly. I get that. It doesn't change the fact that PSU's situation was always a criminal matter that should have been handled by the courts. The NCAA even admitted they had no authority to censure PSU for whatever occurred absent the signing of a consent decree by its interim president. They had to walk back the sanctions as soon as those who were financially harmed by them began to challenge them legally. You don't give back everything you took if you believe you acted properly. PSU Leadership allowed Emmert to make an example of athletics in order to avoid scrutiny elsewhere. The NCAA took advantage of PSU in order to look like the heavy in light of their unbelievable failings in cases like Miami, Auburn, USC, UNC etc.

Baylor will be compared to PSU but the truth is that they are very different situations. Baylor's Transgressions fall smack dab in the middle of what The NCAA is supposed to be governing. The eligibility of student athletes. In reality they should act. They should sanction The Bears. That said I believe that Baylor will offer up some kind of punishment, The NCAA will tack on a little more, and the whole thing will fall of the radar within a few months. It will never get to the level of press PSU received because the story was not framed in a specific manner designed to elicit a desired response, and no one outside of Waco, Texas cares about Art Briles or Baylor.

I am not as convinced that they bounce back quickly when the dust settles. UCONN Fans should know more than most how a bad hire and a few losing seasons could effect attendance for a program that is trying to build a fan base. For you guys there was nothing negative attached to the program, outside of conference affiliation, to keep you from attracting an up and coming coach. Baylor was a nothing program with zero support before a few winning seasons made them relevant. Top coaches and recruits with better options will be staying away for awhile. I believe we have witnessed the pinnacle of Baylor Football. With Texas returning to prominence and future realignment looming their program is far more likely to return to their historical level than it is to remain a top 25 program.

Gonna be honest here, I only read your first paragraph and then stopped so I'm just going to say this. My family has strong ties to Penn State and I grew up a PSU fan. I know what the sanctions did and are still doing to the school. My point about saying business as usual was geared toward football. The sanctions were repealed and football is back to it's normal state of affairs. Yeah they are not doing well and that most likely is due to the sanctions but my point was that they weren't kicked out of the B1G and their level of corruption ran deeper then Baylor's. Baylor ain't getting the boot.

 

[uconndogs]

If I were an alum of either Baylor or Penn State I would be deeply troubled and question my ongoing association and support. That's not to say I would definitely walk away, but I would have to be absolutely convinced the administration and leadership of those institutions would immediately do everything possible to correct the culture that allowed students and children to be put in harms way.

The debate about where the NCAA's oversight begins and ends makes for interesting discussion. But, to me, it pales in comparison to the much larger issue of institutions allowing a culture to develop and exist where winning football games superseded basic moral principle and decency. Penn State and Baylor had major failings as institutions. They allowed priorities to be mutilated and as a result, innocent young people were harmed. To my way of thinking, those issues need to take center stage and be rectified. Whether or not either institution ever has success again in football is trivial in comparison.

 

[Ldandy]

Gonna be honest here, I only read your first paragraph and then stopped so I'm just going to say this. My family has strong ties to Penn State and I grew up a PSU fan. I know what the sanctions did and are still doing to the school. My point about saying business as usual was geared toward football. The sanctions were repealed and football is back to it's normal state of affairs. Yeah they are not doing well and that most likely is due to the sanctions but my point was that they weren't kicked out of the B1G and their level of corruption ran deeper then Baylor's. Baylor ain't getting the boot.

The problem with this is that the level of corruption you are alluding to had very little to do with the school/AD and nearly everything to do with Jerry and The Second Mile. The NCAA decided to play the role of law enforcement and once again came off looking very badly in the end. Baylor coaches OTOH attempted to influence other students in order to keep current players eligible. Baylor by definition is an NCAA Issue, but because of the parallels that the click bait media will draw between the two, will likely get minimal punishment. Its wrong, and why The NCAA should go away, but whatever.

 

[Ldandy]

If I were an alum of either Baylor or Penn State I would be deeply troubled and question my ongoing association and support. That's not to say I would definitely walk away, but I would have to be absolutely convinced the administration and leadership of those institutions would immediately do everything possible to correct the culture that allowed students and children to be put in harms way.

The debate about where the NCAA's oversight begins and ends makes for interesting discussion. But, to me, it pales in comparison to the much larger issue of institutions allowing a culture to develop and exist where winning football games superseded basic moral principle and decency. Penn State and Baylor had major failings as institutions. They allowed priorities to be mutilated and as a result, innocent young people were harmed. To my way of thinking, those issues need to take center stage and be rectified. Whether or not either institution ever has success again in football is trivial in comparison.

I respect your opinion, but what happened at PSU is so much more complicated than how you described it. It would be great to be able to say identify a problem, correct it and learn from it. The issue is that there were/are multiple actors with varying degrees of connection to Sandusky/TSM who had plenty to lose by being tied to it in any meaningful way. There was clearly a desired narrative that certain people in positions of power wanted out there. Its why the grand jury presentment was leaked, its why PSU waited nearly 3 days to issue a statement allowing the MSM to fill the void with speculation, and why their first action was to fire the coach and president.

I don't expect to change peoples' minds that are made up. That is pointless. I only write this to say that there is plenty of information out there, with more to come that will show things were very different than how they were sold to the general public. When people ask why would a school sabotage itself? I say question the people in real power, and how they would be compromised by being tied to scandal. The truly rich and powerful will often do whatever is necessary to remain rich and powerful. If in the process they could settle a few old scores that's a win win.

 

[uconndogs]

I respect your opinion, but what happened at PSU is so much more complicated than how you described it. It would be great to be able to say identify a problem, correct it and learn from it. The issue is that there were/are multiple actors with varying degrees of connection to Sandusky/TSM who had plenty to lose by being tied to it in any meaningful way. There was clearly a desired narrative that certain people in positions of power wanted out there. Its why the grand jury presentment was leaked, its why PSU waited nearly 3 days to issue a statement allowing the MSM to fill the void with speculation, and why their first action was to fire the coach and president.

I don't expect to change peoples' minds that are made up. That is pointless. I only write this to say that there is plenty of information out there, with more to come that will show things were very different than how they were sold to the general public. When people ask why would a school sabotage itself? I say question the people in real power, and how they would be compromised by being tied to scandal. The truly rich and powerful will often do whatever is necessary to remain rich and powerful. If in the process they could settle a few old scores that's a win win.

I'm sure it is complicated and I'm sure I don't know all the details. But, you pretty well described a culture that was and maybe still is absolute poison.