Contrarian View: Not Ready to Throw In The Towel | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Contrarian View: Not Ready to Throw In The Towel

Umami Zen said:
We have 6 home games left/5 away games.. Irrespective of the opponent.. See us going 5-1 at home.. Of the 5 away games.. All except Creighton are vs opponents currently ranked below us in BE standings. See us going no worse than 4-1.. If my numbers hold up preceding the BET.. We're 24-7.. With very strong OOC wins on the resume that appear to be growing in value for Selection Sunday.

Some teams are more comfortable playing with a chip on their shoulder.. And are chasers.. Some like to lead and go wire-to-wire and be the chased. Think our guys like the chip on the shoulder kind of vibe.

We've got our "warts".. Areas for improvement. Fans can make a choice as to their optimistic or pessimistic views.. I'm still "in" on the season being a success.. A choice I've made as a casual fan.
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Nice fairy tale, but there is no way this team is going 9-2 the rest of the regular season. 7-4 is probably more accurate, and even that might be a stretch.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
My man, we’ve lost 5 of 6 and 2 in a row to not very good teams. After starting 14-0. Why are you acting like these reactions aren’t warranted?
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Some people are doing too much. Negative reactions are warranted, I was a zombie walking around my house for 2 hours after the game. There’s a difference.
 
There is some serious unknown disfunction going on with the team right now. The crack started to show itself against Georgetown and it has been split wide open ever since. Something suggests (wild guess) that the players are getting mandates that many do not believe in or support, e.g. feed Sanogo at all costs and do not clog up the lane when he has the ball.

What follows is a breakdown that effects many other team dynamics and performance. It's more than fouls, guard play, rebounding, effort, 50/50 balls, officiating, etc. When a team seems to find ways to lose, its not a merely talent thing.
 
JB75 said:
I wud feel much better about things if there was some hope that I would think Dan Hurley would switch things up -but I don’t see that happening -so my hope is dwindling. He’s a stubborn dude
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You can substitute stupid as being synonymous with stubborn, maybe even a little crazy( doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome each time is the clinical definition of insanity). And if you remember the last seton hall game Richmond scored 16 points in a row before Hurley made any meaningful changes and we lost that game too. He had a week to prepare for New Mexico St last year in the NCCA tournament and stop what was basically a one man team and he did nothing, he came into the game with no specific plans on how to defend the one player who proceeded to have a career game and we were bounced as a 5 seed in the first round. Apparently he doesn’t have the ability or desire to change
 
Huskybass said:
Nice fairy tale, but there is no way this team is going 9-2 the rest of the regular season. 7-4 is probably more accurate, and even that might be a stretch.
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7-4 is also not realistic. I see 4-7 or 5-6 as the most likely record, but it could be worse.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
My man, we’ve lost 5 of 6 and 2 in a row to not very good teams. After starting 14-0. Why are you acting like these reactions aren’t warranted?
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The flaw in your argument is that Seton Hall and St. John’s are very good teams. Not by Big East standards but in the overall world of college basketball, they are very good.

Seton Hall in particular is being badly disrespected here. They beat Rutgers on the road, a team currently ranked in the top 25. They beat Memphis on a neutral court, a team currently ranked in the top 40 by both Sagarin & Ken Pom. Seton Hall themselves is ranked in the top 50 by both Sagarin & Ken Pom. This figured to be a tough game from the get go. The way we lost it is is our aging, but losing to them by I point on the road in the final seconds was certainly within the range of possibilities going in. The loss doesn’t mean we played badly, but it only takes a few mistakes against a good team to turn a win into a loss.

The St. John’s loss was a far bigger disappointment because it was at home, because the margin of victory was bigger, and because they aren’t ass good as Seton Hall. But they are a good team. They are ranked in the top 60 by bith Sagarin and Ken Pom. They actually have an outside shot of going to the tournament. While this is a bad loss, it’s the only truly bad loss on the resume, and it’s not as bad a loss as say, Xavier’s loss to DePaul. In a tough league like the Big East, games like this happen from time to time. Xavier recovered fro their loss to DeOaul and we’ll recover from this one.
 
Umami Zen said:
We have 6 home games left/5 away games.. Irrespective of the opponent.. See us going 5-1 at home.. Of the 5 away games.. All except Creighton are vs opponents currently ranked below us in BE standings. See us going no worse than 4-1.. If my numbers hold up preceding the BET.. We're 24-7.. With very strong OOC wins on the resume that appear to be growing in value for Selection Sunday.

Some teams are more comfortable playing with a chip on their shoulder.. And are chasers.. Some like to lead and go wire-to-wire and be the chased. Think our guys like the chip on the shoulder kind of vibe.

We've got our "warts".. Areas for improvement. Fans can make a choice as to their optimistic or pessimistic views.. I'm still "in" on the season being a success.. A choice I've made as a casual fan.
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I agree, but do the players buy into it. Mental aspect of this is critical.
 
Umami Zen
I am not sure if everyone is throwing in the towel - or at least want to.
However, the history of the past few years does not bode will for change in a lot of areas that desperately require attention - thus mine and several other's less than optimistic opinions.
I applaud your willingness to walk into the battle without weapons.
Namaste my friend
 
biggieb1950 said:
I agree, but do the players buy into it. Mental aspect of this is critical.
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If they want to play during March Madness--I would hope so.. Some of that is through self-motivation.. Some is through the coaching staff pushing the right buttons. Time will tell
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
My man, we’ve lost 5 of 6 and 2 in a row to not very good teams. After starting 14-0. Why are you acting like these reactions aren’t warranted?
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Our widespread reactions are strong emotions informed by the relative horrors we've witnessed, and they are therefore indeed quite understandable. Is that reality-focused enough for you?

As points of focus susceptible to being regularly fed & watered & grown, many of these feelings are also disempowering. The coaches & players can't afford to put their energies there. What leads fans to stay so connected to energy they find distasteful? I'm not asking you as personal criticism. I'm genuinely curious.
 
St John's punked us at home. Hall steam rolled us in the second half

I'm not even counting at Georgetown as a win right now. My confidence has been destroyed
 
Billy Jack said:
The flaw in your argument is that Seton Hall and St. John’s are very good teams. Not by Big East standards but in the overall world of college basketball, they are very good.

Seton Hall in particular is being badly disrespected here. They beat Rutgers on the road, a team currently ranked in the top 25. They beat Memphis on a neutral court, a team currently ranked in the top 40 by both Sagarin & Ken Pom. Seton Hall themselves is ranked in the top 50 by both Sagarin & Ken Pom. This figured to be a tough game from the get go. The way we lost it is is our aging, but losing to them by I point on the road in the final seconds was certainly within the range of possibilities going in. The loss doesn’t mean we played badly, but it only takes a few mistakes against a good team to turn a win into a loss.

The St. John’s loss was a far bigger disappointment because it was at home, because the margin of victory was bigger, and because they aren’t ass good as Seton Hall. But they are a good team. They are ranked in the top 60 by bith Sagarin and Ken Pom. They actually have an outside shot of going to the tournament. While this is a bad loss, it’s the only truly bad loss on the resume, and it’s not as bad a loss as say, Xavier’s loss to DePaul. In a tough league like the Big East, games like this happen from time to time. Xavier recovered fro their loss to DeOaul and we’ll recover from this one.
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Seton Hall is “Good” I guess. But they aren’t “Very Good” as I pointed out, but I guess you can argue they are somewhat close to it? St John’s is just plainly not very good.
 
I heard that it is hard to beat good teams on the road. Is that true?

I would have liked to beat one of the Providence, Xavier, Marquette road gauntlet, and UConn was so close to pulling it out against an improving Seton Hall. St. Johns at home is a bad loss. UConn has one of those. If Butler skunks the Huskies, then it is panic time.
 
Umami Zen said:
Some teams are more comfortable playing with a chip on their shoulder.. And are chasers.. Some like to lead and go wire-to-wire and be the chased. Think our guys like the chip on the shoulder kind of vibe.
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really? kinda seems like we were the ultimate frontrunners at the beginning of the season and now we fold like lawn chairs whenever we face adversity.
 
bendm said:
really? kinda seems like we were the ultimate frontrunners at the beginning of the season and now we fold like lawn chairs whenever we face adversity.
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Frontrunners because of the record.. But if you understand sports of any kind.. Teams/individuals tend to drift back to their norm (comfort level) over the course of a season.

We are actually agreeing in concept.. But the season is not over.. IMO.. The team will begin to win again.. Because they are the chaser.. The underdog.. Their comfort level.. Just as they started the season.. The underdog who was underappreciated and picked by the BE coaches to finish 4/5th in the League.

I think they'll figure it out..Apparently.. You don't .. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Umami Zen said:
I think they'll figure it out..Apparently.. You don't .. Different strokes for different folks.
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hoping for the best but planning for the worst. easier to accept whatever happens that way.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Seton Hall is “Good” I guess. But they aren’t “Very Good” as I pointed out, but I guess you can argue they are somewhat close to it? St John’s is just plainly not very good.
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I guess you’re going to have to define “very good”.

You’re also going to have to address the issue of what caliber of team is capable of beating a top 20 team. Only another top 20 team?

Here’s the thing. The betting lines had the spread in our game vs Seton Hall at about 4.5. The power ratings had it closer than that at about 2.5. Either way, when the spread is under 5 as this one was, it’s basically a game that can go either way. The game played true to form. It was our game to win, but in the end, Seton Hall pulled it out. I’ll note that Seton Hall was helped by home court advantage both in setting the spread and when the game was played.

So, my question is, how can a team that is “not very good” (your vague descriptor) be rated almost dead even with a top 20 team in the polls and top 10 in the power ratings? With the bump of a few points for home court advantage of course. Not very good but still capable of being very competitive?
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I heard that it is hard to beat good teams on the road. Is that true?

I would have liked to beat one of the Providence, Xavier, Marquette road gauntlet, and UConn was so close to pulling it out against an improving Seton Hall. St. Johns at home is a bad loss. UConn has one of those. If Butler skunks the Huskies, then it is panic time.
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We already beat Butler at their place. You think they’re going to come into the CL Center and beat us there?
 

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