Congrats Lou!!!

['nuff sed]

Some of these replies to a new poster are Yjere is a saying - “we can disagree without being disagreeable”. This is a board for DISCUSSION, not lecturing new posters on the error of their ways

One unfortunate byproduct of digital communications is the lack of recognition, of the lack of nuance, in interpreting intent of typed remarks, by a reader, and the failure of the writer to account for that. There is no facial expression, no tone of voice, no body language, for a reader to form a context to interpret intent of a comment.

I had no intent whatsoever to belittle the player or the accomplishment itself, and I don't think I did.

Thin skins get thinner on the internet.

Thankfully, I have been informed by my adult children that coloring books are now an approved therapy for such afflictions, and that I need to be aware of "triggers". I have my own 128 color box of crayolas.

I didn't understand the "trigger" thing.....My bad.

The thread topic was Lou. I commented on Lou.

I get the fact she gets a certain level of immunity from criticism because of who she is, and I get the fact that the injury put her behind, and I get the fact that her senior year turned out to be her biggest development year as a player, and I get the fact that when the game plan calls for trading 3's for 2's she cant be in the corner and under the basket at the same time ----- but I'd gladly trade some of those points for a critical rebound to keep possession in a close game --- or screaming for the ball in every huddle in a close one---[mod edit]. ---- Senior's gotta lead ---- anybody can score-----just 'sayin.

 

[Los24]

I don't think this is necessary in a thread celebrating Katie Lou's accomplishment. Yes she's the best player among the three. That is a surprise to no one. Neither Bonnie or Karlie were anywhere near as highly rated coming out of high school.

Katie Lou has hit more of them, but Karlie will probably go down as the most accurate 3 point shooter in the family. She hit .443 for her career including .485 as a Sr. Katie Lou was at .429 thru the end of her Jr. year but is only hitting .387 so far this year so she's falling further behind. If you value accuracy over volume then Karlie is clearly the best shooter in the family. So there.

Did she do it while being the focus of the other teams defense from her soph through senior season? I look at and appreciate stats but need to consider a few other factors. That said, Karlie's accuracy is better and .485 is right there with Lou's number leading the country last year.

 

[Los24]

She joins the company of .

Lou's great, for this "era" and this team.....but in my view she doesn't quite belong in the company of those other names....YET..there is still too much upside in potential as a complete player that she has not reached yet.just IMHO

So she has not proven to be as good as an all around player as KML?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Did she do it while being the focus of the other teams defense from her soph through senior season? I look at and appreciate stats but need to consider a few other factors. That said, Karlie's accuracy is better and .485 is right there with Lou's number leading the country last year.

How much could defenses concentrate on Lou when there was also Collier, Nurse and Gabby to deal with most of the time, plus Dangerfield and Stevens at times? Did Stanford have anywhere near that much firepower while Karlie was there?

 

[Los24]

"how more complete her game is now. Etc "

Against her potential...I think her upside is higher .....much higher....that's how much I think of her.

Why would you think that an insult ???

The 2000 mark is significant and I do not downplay it.....but its a "scorers" stat....that's all....she was primarily "just" a scorer for 2 full years, and part of a 3rd.look at the other names on that list please, every one of them did "other things" too, every one of them did something else that took away from their scoring.

You guys wanna put her with Tina ? C'mon.

If you watched UConn games you would notice her ball handling, passing, inbounding, and attracting the defense is quite impactful... for instance she was near top with assist to turnover ratio last year and leads the team this year. Lots of other stats to show that she was more than one-dimensional.

That said, no one is comparing her to Tina... but KML, one of my favs, is on that list and you could argue KLS is as well rounded of a player.

 

[Los24]

How much could defenses concentrate on Lou when there was also Collier, Nurse and Gabby to deal with most of the time, plus Dangerfield and Stevens at times? Did Stanford have anywhere near that much firepower while Karlie was there?

I saw them leave Gabby alone at the key game over game.... Opposing coaches and Geno talked about how Lou was the primary focus of other defenses many times. Take away all the fast break points scored and how wide open those other players were (Kia was wide open on most 3s) and you can see where the defense was focused most of the time.

These past big games I would see some wide open shots because 2 defenders ran with Lou.... ND, Baylor, etc... To many examples of coaches saying I put my best defender on 33... Plus Lou scored many other ways by evidence of her passing a combined point total of her sisters who were pretty good scorers in their own right.

But.... you make a valid point regarding the talent around each player.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well putting their team's best perimeter defender on Lou seems like a no brainer, but doubling her seems stupid (prior to this year anyway). Collier had a 40 point game and Gabby and Nurse were both capable of going for 25 or 30 when they were feeling it. Letting a player like that have free run is just a bad idea.

Neither of the other Samuelsons was ever a primary scorer at Stanford. They were nice complimentary players, especially Karlie, but they were just in a different stratosphere than Lou. Bonnie never averaged double figure scoring and Karlie only did during her Sr. year. Both were largely spot up shooters, taking the vast majority of their shots behind the arc (237/291 made FG for Bonnie and 249/368 made FG for Karlie).

But they can both probably can take some credit for KLS becoming the player she is because of all the hotly contested games in the driveway growing up.

 

[MSGRET]

Well putting their team's best perimeter defender on Lou seems like a no brainer, but doubling her seems stupid (prior to this year anyway). Collier had a 40 point game and Gabby and Nurse were both capable of going for 25 or 30 when they were feeling it. Letting a player like that have free run is just a bad idea.

Neither of the other Samuelsons was ever a primary scorer at Stanford. They were nice complimentary players, especially Karlie, but they were just in a different stratosphere than Lou. Bonnie never averaged double figure scoring and Karlie only did during her Sr. year. Both were largely spot up shooters, taking the vast majority of their shots behind the arc (237/291 made FG for Bonnie and 249/368 made FG for Karlie).

But they can both probably can take some credit for KLS becoming the player she is because of all the hotly contested games in the driveway growing up.

Lou is the only player that had a 40 point game, it was her Sophomore year in in the AAC Championship game against USF, you know the one she went 10 for 10 on 3 point shots. Phessa scored 39 in the same season in the final game at USF.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Phessa scored 39 in the same season in the final game at USF.

Okay I was off by one point. Kinda splitting hairs though.

 

[Los24]

Well putting their team's best perimeter defender on Lou seems like a no brainer, but doubling her seems stupid (prior to this year anyway). Collier had a 40 point game and Gabby and Nurse were both capable of going for 25 or 30 when they were feeling it. Letting a player like that have free run is just a bad idea.

Neither of the other Samuelsons was ever a primary scorer at Stanford. They were nice complimentary players, especially Karlie, but they were just in a different stratosphere than Lou. Bonnie never averaged double figure scoring and Karlie only did during her Sr. year. Both were largely spot up shooters, taking the vast majority of their shots behind the arc (237/291 made FG for Bonnie and 249/368 made FG for Karlie).

But they can both probably can take some credit for KLS becoming the player she is because of all the hotly contested games in the driveway growing up.

Correct your post supporting my point. If you have less of other teams focus, shoot less, and less responsibility it makes it easier to shoot for higher percentage. I am not taking anything away from sisters or saying Lou is the best ever, simply there are more factors in determining whom is a better shooter than just respective FG%

 

[meyers7]

I'm not knocking Lou.

Yea, you kinda are.

---- I'm talking great vs program great vs all time great in the game--------That's the conversation she doesn't belong in YET.----

Here's where you are off. She is already in the Great. Wall of Honor confirms that. As a 2000 pt / 3 time AA/ #1 or #2 3pt shooter she's in the Program Great. All Time Great in the Game? Nah, not quite there.

But, she's definitely in the Great/Program Great/All Time Great "conversation". She's in the UCONN All Time 2nd 5.

Here, I'll give you some more ridiculousness.....

Yea, definitely more ridiculousness. With that, I'll agree.

 

['nuff sed]

So she has not proven to be as good as an all around player as KML?

She's better all around than KLM with higher upside...that's not debatable IMO...but that's not the point.

I guess I failed to communicate. My fault.

2 final points, questions to ponder really, to add a bit of color:

Top 10 lists at UConn ? no more than a footnote on a career summary, and, given the parade of talent we've had, kind of superfluous.

Mickey Mantle, great, HOF, idol of millions, an icon for a generation of Americans, absolutely beloved by fans ---- Yet he was a disappointment to Stengel. Why was that ?

I get why the fan base loooooves her --- The baby blues, the Sweetheart of the Rodeo, and a deadly jumper good for 2000 points ----- she gets a lifetime free pass

 

['nuff sed]

Yea, you kinda are.


Here's where you are off. She is already in the Great. Wall of Honor confirms that. As a 2000 pt / 3 time AA/ #1 or #2 3pt shooter she's in the Program Great. All Time Great in the Game? Nah, not quite there.

But, she's definitely in the Great/Program Great/All Time Great "conversation". She's in the UCONN All Time 2nd 5.

Yea, definitely more ridiculousness. With that, I'll agree.

All Time 2nd 5 ?????? Oh no, no no no , -----the 2 more rebounds than a dead person thing alone keeps her out of those spots, but there's other things too---the points give her a spot on the scoring list. ---- she needs to bring more than a jump shot to the greatest discussions

And BTW....our subs probably couldn't beat Quinnipiac.

 

[Los24]

She's better all around than KLM with higher upside...that's not debatable IMO...but that's not the point.

I guess I failed to communicate. My fault.

2 final points, questions to ponder really, to add a bit of color:

Top 10 lists at UConn ? no more than a footnote on a career summary, and, given the parade of talent we've had, kind of superfluous.

Mickey Mantle, great, HOF, idol of millions, an icon for a generation of Americans, absolutely beloved by fans ---- Yet he was a disappointment to Stengel. Why was that ?

I get why the fan base loooooves her --- The baby blues, the Sweetheart of the Rodeo, and a deadly jumper good for 2000 points ----- she gets a lifetime free pass

Good convo but your 2 points lost me. Her looks have zero to do with it for one and two I am a huge Yankee fan but fail to see where that plays in here as Geno loves the player in question.

Look, if Lou was playing with Stewie and Mo her game could have looked different. The rebounds is confusing to me as well because obviously she has the skill set and coaching to have leveraged that more. However, let's not forget the kid played injured and in the two FF loses she actually did not tank (shot 50% and battled.) I wish it was different and she and Pheesa had 3 championships (and 6 straight for UConn) coming in to this year but it is what it is....

I think a lot of the other areas of her game are under-rated (can play every position including backup point guard at 6'3") while other are a bit hyped, but she is going to be a 1st team AA 3 years straight and finalist again for best player in the country for a reason.

 

[meyers7]

All Time 2nd 5 ?????? Oh no, no no no , -----the 2 more rebounds than a dead person thing alone keeps her out of those spots, but there's other things too---the points give her a spot on the scoring list. ---- she needs to bring more than a jump shot to the greatest discussions

Who are you putting in her place?

 

['nuff sed]

Who are you putting in her place?

I don't know ---- anybody who as a senior doesn't say "Hey, this rebounding thing, its pretty easy, I should do it more"

Go ask Aisha, Swin and Tamika if they think Katie Lou could break into that front court....everything doesn't show up on the stat sheets.....betcha Swin laughs and says if you're gonna put a G after a name you should go play her as a G.

What ? I can't see something different that you ?

I've been watching this stuff for while, and I don't I don't claim to know anything, but I think I have a sliver of a clue as to what I think its supposed to look like. I did get to see a MVP of NC team growing up so at least I saw that, and I know what an OB looks like.

r

 

['nuff sed]

Good convo but your 2 points lost me. Her looks have zero to do with it for one and two I am a huge Yankee fan but fail to see where that plays in here as Geno loves the player in question.

Look, if Lou was playing with Stewie and Mo her game could have looked different. The rebounds is confusing to me as well because obviously she has the skill set and coaching to have leveraged that more. However, let's not forget the kid played injured and in the two FF loses she actually did not tank (shot 50% and battled.) I wish it was different and she and Pheesa had 3 championships (and 6 straight for UConn) coming in to this year but it is what it is....

I think a lot of the other areas of her game are under-rated (can play every position including backup point guard at 6'3") while other are a bit hyped, but she is going to be a 1st team AA 3 years straight and finalist again for best player in the country for a reason.

I think a lot of the other areas of her game are under-rated

Yes, I agree, and I think its because she only shows it in flashes. And that is the basis of my remarks.
She does a lot --- the true greats do more. Its not just talent, its talent and work - she has all that.
But the "top 10's" in this program - I dunno - I think they have to have talent and work ethic and that other something else that I can't describe.

Her looks have zero to do with it for one

Not on the court, but you have to sadly admit, it matters to the marketers, the brand image, the public image. How the press presents you. Who gets a pass and who doesn't. Who gets promoted and who doesn't. Whose jersey numbers sell. Who the fans pick as their "pet".

I haven't been here long but how many Katie Lou avatars are being used by 60+ year old geezers wishing she was their daughter. C'mon get real. People gravitate to what they like. Lets not pretend there isn't other things going on with who has the biggest fan club, and who gets immunity from criticism and who doesn't.

She's the All American girl - how can that not be part of why her supporters cannot bring themselves to look critically at this.

Mantle, who is undeniably a great among the greats - is still described today as a classic under achiever, even with all the records.

I see Lou at the edge of that. I think she's even more than what she shows.

And that's not meant as a knock. It's just what I see.

 

[inthisopinion]

Don't know what games some of you people are watching but no other player on this team gets nearly as much attention from the opposition than KLS. She gets doubled most of the time often in addition to being guarded by the best defender. As for rebounding she is outside most of the time both on offense and defense. She is the best team "great" player I have seen in a long time in college BB and some times to a fault. Many of you forget that of the members of the past 4 recruiting classes she is the only one who contributed to a championship as a starter as well as, of course, contributing to the extension of the record streak. She's lost 3 games as a 4 year starter. Also, consider that last season she led all the other 3 pt shooters in the entire country in %. That is incredible when you consider that the vast majority of all the others were spot up complimentary players. She is the best pure passer on the team and it is no accident that her coach has his biggest offensive threat trigger all the half court inbounding (which takes her out of a good % of scoring opportunities). KLS is already in the all-time top 10 players at UConn and what has been mentioned above are only some of the reasons why.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

The thing I find odd is that One poster decided to totally derail a thread that was started to simply recognize and congratulate a player's individual career accomplishment...one that is NOT very common in NCAA WBB...which is why it's called the 2000 point club. That's all this thread was about, but it's now turned into criticism of every facet of a 2 (soon to be 3) time AA's game, and criticism of those who respond "in her defense."

 

[meyers7]

I don't know

Yea, I kinda got that. So Sveta? KML? Those are your choices.

Go ask Aisha, Swin and Tamika if they think Katie Lou could break into that front court....everything doesn't show up on the stat sheets.....betcha Swin laughs and says if you're gonna put a G after a name you should go play her as a G.

Well Jones and Williams aren't even in the conversation. Gotta be on the Wall to start with. And no she's not breaking into the 4/5 spot. She's vying for the 3 spot.

By the way Jones' best year rebounding was 6.6 rpg. Williams was 6.9. KLS is at 7.8 right now.

What ? I can't see something different that you ?

I've been watching this stuff for while, and I don't I don't claim to know anything, but I think I have a sliver of a clue as to what I think its supposed to look like. I did get to see a MVP of NC team growing up so at least I saw that, and I know what an OB looks like.

Sure, you can see whatever you want. I'm just trying to set you straight. Adjust your vision. Make your sliver a bit bigger.

 

['nuff sed]

The thing I find odd is that One poster decided to totally derail a thread that was started to simply recognize and congratulate a player's individual career accomplishment...one that is NOT very common in NCAA WBB...which is why it's called the 2000 point club. That's all this thread was about, but it's now turned into criticism of every facet of a 2 (soon to be 3) time AA's game, and criticism of those who respond "in her defense."

Yawn

There's a Million Stories in the Naked City

This is one of them

Don't invite me to your next party.........oh, sorry, this is your party

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

Yawn

There's a Million Stories in the Naked City

This is one of them

Don't invite me to your next party....oh, sorry, this is your party

Witty

 

['nuff sed]

Witty

And you didn't even like the Andy Lander's hairdo in the link I posted

ugh ! there's just no pleasing some people, but I tried

Anyway, don't fret, my father's whole side of the family was from PA....and I didn't get along with any of them either.

At least you had Lakawanna light up today......so I can't say you're un-enlightened

I think its time for the Admin to lock this thread.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Correct your post supporting my point. If you have less of other teams focus, shoot less, and less responsibility it makes it easier to shoot for higher percentage. I am not taking anything away from sisters or saying Lou is the best ever, simply there are more factors in determining whom is a better shooter than just respective FG%

Yes, we can agree Lou is a very different player than either of her sisters and played a different role during her career.

 

[Los24]

I think a lot of the other areas of her game are under-rated

Yes, I agree, and I think its because she only shows it in flashes. And that is the basis of my remarks.
She does a lot --- the true greats do more. Its not just talent, its talent and work - she has all that.
But the "top 10's" in this program - I dunno - I think they have to have talent and work ethic and that other something else that I can't describe.

Her looks have zero to do with it for one

Not on the court, but you have to sadly admit, it matters to the marketers, the brand image, the public image. How the press presents you. Who gets a pass and who doesn't. Who gets promoted and who doesn't. Whose jersey numbers sell. Who the fans pick as their "pet".

I haven't been here long but how many Katie Lou avatars are being used by 60+ year old geezers wishing she was their daughter. C'mon get real. People gravitate to what they like. Lets not pretend there isn't other things going on with who has the biggest fan club, and who gets immunity from criticism and who doesn't.

She's the All American girl - how can that not be part of why her supporters cannot bring themselves to look critically at this.

Mantle, who is undeniably a great among the greats - is still described today as a classic under achiever, even with all the records.

I see Lou at the edge of that. I think she's even more than what she shows.

And that's not meant as a knock. It's just what I see.

I think you make good points. Only thing I would say is that even if Mantle could have been more great (greater) he was still great. You can say the same about the Babe the way he drank, ate and the poor physical condition he played in....

To be honest I would have to go through a list and see where she falls in but can see where you (and others) push her down to 10-15 based on the greats we have seen. Her story is still being written and if she shows that other thing you can't describe to lead this team to a title then it will get interesting.

Talking about, "I think they have to have talent and work ethic and that other something else that I can't describe." If I am honest, the last I get where you want more from Lou. I can try to describe it but it unfortunate looks like what Ogunbowale showed at the end of both FF games and last weeks LV game.