CONFERENCE TOURNAMENTS

[triaddukefan]

The ACC starts wednesday here in Greensboro

http://www.theacc.com/#!/page/championship_w-baskbl

The SEC starts wednesday in Atlanta Northeast

http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/SECSPORTS/CHAMPIONSHIPS/WomensBasketballChampionships.aspx

http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/Portals/3/SEC Website/wbasketball/2014_bracket.pdf

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Even better, the bulk of those tourneys are on TV, mostly the Fox networks. Likewise B1G and Big 12. The PAC (except the final) is on the Pac-12 network, which I don't get on Directv but have computer access to.

There are 12 conference finals on TV in 3 days beginning next Sunday. Hurrah - especially as I leave the next morning for an out-of-town wedding and will miss the rest of the conference tourneys.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I know one tourney I will not be attending... the AAC

 

[johnnyc]

Every conference does not have a tournament right? The Ivy? Anyone else?

 

[triaddukefan]

First full day of the conference tournaments.... a few bubble teams could really use a win today. Florida State vs Miami, UGA vs Vandy, Minnesota vs Wisconsin, not sure if Washington can get into the NCAAs or not without winning the Pac-12.

Every conference does not have a tournament right? The Ivy? Anyone else?

thats probably the only one.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The NY Times listed the score for last night's Mississippi State-Missouri game under the heading of the "FAU Thanksgiving Tournament." The SEC must really be coming down in the world.

 

[triaddukefan]

Vanderbilt might have played their way out of the NCAA. FSU might be doing the same as I type.

 

[Phil]

Arkansas probably didn't have a shot at a bid, but they were 26th in both polls earlier in the year, and still carry a high position in Sagarin rating (32), that is normally high enough to get a bid. Yet they lost to the worst team in the SEC. What happened?

 

[johnnyc]

Arrrgh....Directv loses the signal for the FSU Miami game with 2 sec to go and tied.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Looks like FSU got to OT. Guessing that Vandy still makes it because of the UTenn win. Probably LSU needs a win more just because of the way they finished, which is historically bad for an NCAA candidate.

 

[triaddukefan]

Bad news for the ACC fin terms of attendance for Friday's early game and possibly tonights games as well. A winter storm warning is in effect for our part of the state from 9 pm tonight until noon on Friday. 1-3 inches of snow and sleet possible, followed by a 1/4 inch of ice. The first game tomorrow between Cuse and State is at 11am, and its another school kids game where they invite middle school children from across the region to watch. Today's school day game had over 10,000 in attendance, and the Cuse coach commented on the great atmosphere and the high level of noise in the arena. If the forecast holds up... instead of 10,000 plus.... attendance might end up being less than 1,000. ]

 

[DobbsRover2]

FSU gets to the next round and likely wraps up an NCAA bid in the oddish type of situation where they will have a worse conference record than another ACC team that won't make it, Miami.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I'm in Atlanta for the Women's SECT. I've been to the men's SEC tourney a number of times and I've been to numerous women's NCAA games, but this is my first women's SECT.

 

[Striper69]

Arkansas probably didn't have a shot at a bid, but they were 26th in both polls earlier in the year, and still carry a high position in Sagarin rating (32), that is normally high enough to get a bid. Yet they lost to the worst team in the SEC. What happened?

I watched that game. I thought (and probably so did they) that they had it locked up while ahead by 10 points with 3 minutes left. Ole Miss made an improbable comeback as Arkansas couldn't buy a basket and turned the ball over for the next three minutes.

Bad coaching. IMO

 

[Striper69]

The North Carolina/Wake Forest game last night was pretty good. It was close until the end but NC prevailed.

I will record the NC/Maryland game tonight and watch it when I get a chance.

 

[Vowelguy]

PAC

• Washington was upset by Utah last night (in Seattle no less), effectively bursting their bubble. WNIT bound.
• USC squeaked past Arizona to give their faint hopes a live, but they would likely need a win tonight and then over Stanford to even have a shot.
• Oregon St has must win vs Utah tonight to help their bubble position
• Ariz St is likely in, but they have lost 5 of 7. Need a win over USC today to be sure.

ACC

• Big wins for GaTech and Fla St. Likely secures their spots in and gives ACC 8 teams.

B10

• Mich & Minn with key wins to help their chances.

SEC

• Creme has Vandy as a #8 seed. NO WAY. They were 2-9 down the stretch, including a SEC tourney loss to Georgia. The Dores may have played themselves out.
• Georgia, in contrast, may have played their way in.
• LSU had lost 6 in a row before last night's win. That likely saved their berth, esp given that they host.

 

[DobbsRover2]

You're right, Vandy really has plummeted. So if LSU loses to UTenn tonight, then the committee needs to think about whether the two SEC teams with losing conference records and 2-8 records in the last 10 should get bids, and that combo has never happened in the 2000s anyway. GA and Auburn's resumes are also poor even if their L10 is okay, so if they both lose today as expected, there is a chance the SEC will drop from a previously expected 8 teams to only 5 bids for the tourney.

 

[Phil]

Charlie Creme pointed out that no one with an RPI as high as LSU has ever failed to get an invite, not even close, and even if you ignore the understandably questioned RPI and look at Sagarin, they still are higher than teams who do not make it. That said, I bet there's never been a team with an RPI this high who managed such a losing end of season, so the committee will have some head scratching to do, and will get some brick bats no matter what they do. I think the fact that LSU is hosting will save them, but some Bowling Green fans might remind the committee that they were dissed even though hosting not that long ago.

 

[Phil]

SEC

• 
  [ ]Creme has Vandy as a #8 seed. NO WAY. They were 2-9 down the stretch, including a SEC tourney loss to Georgia. The Dores may have played themselves out.

The odd thing is, the committee might chose to not invite Vandy, especially because of the losing conference record, and their failure to redeem themselves with even a single conference win, but if they decide to include them, their starting slot position will be based on their RPI of 36. That naturally makes them a nine. I'm not sure why Creme made them an 8, it wasn't a procedural bump, but it could be that 8 versus 9 is not much of an issue - you play the same opponents in the same venue, and the only difference is the color of the jerseys. If I were creating a bracket, I might not worry about eights versus nine and getting the number right - who cares?

I can see and support an argument that they should get invited, but once invited I could support a nine or maybe a ten seed.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Actually he's wrong about the "not even close," though it is true for a major school. As I noted in another thread, WKy was at #17 in 2006 and didn't get a bid. Closest for a major was Florida in 2000 at #22. LSU is currently somehow at #12 with a #1 SOS in RPI, while Massey has them at #32 with a #16 SOS.

Look if Charlie is just watching the RPI, I don't really have anything to say because it is brain-dead and I don't think the committee members pay it much mind. But the name LSU and 19 wins is something I can see them latching on to. And if they beat UTenn again, then I'd be all for the Tigers getting the fourth #1 seed.

 

[cabbie191]

I don't pretend to have a decent understanding of how teams are seeded but it seems odd to me that for some teams who are considered on the bubble, if they are in, they come in as high as a 9 seed. It would seem logical that if a team is that close to being out that they are considered bubble material and one more loss derails them, they should be seeded somewhere from 14 - 16.

Any of you experts able to educate me on this?

 

[Phil]

In fairness to Charlie his "not close" comment had a major conference qualifier, so my bad for not mentioning it.

He agrees that the RPI is flawed. He even hints that the committee members are aware of Sagarin numbers.

But his impression is that RPI is important to the committee. His job is to guess what the committee will do, not what they should do. What they should do is call for the NCAA to either replace the RPI by something sensible, or scrap it.

 

[Phil]

I don't pretend to have a decent understanding of how teams are seeded but it seems odd to me that for some teams who are considered on the bubble, if they are in, they come in as high as a 9 seed. It would seem logical that if a team is that close to being out that they are considered bubble material and one more loss derails them, they should be seeded somewhere from 14 - 16.

Any of you experts able to educate me on this?

That sounds logical, but let me see if I can explain why it is flawed. Seeds 14-16 are almost always (my guess is that the right word is "always") populated by the automatic qualifiers, who would not have a chance of making it if they simply chose the 64 best teams. So it seems slightly odd, but it is true that if you just barely make it in as an at-large qualifier, you are not looking at a 14,15, or 16 seed but something higher.

 

[Phil]

For example, in Creme's Louisville bracket, Florida is on the bubble and just in. They are a ten seed. The 11-16 seeds are:

• BYU
• IONA
• FLORIDA GULF COAST
• UT MARTIN
• HIGH POINT
• ROBERT MORRIS

each of who gets in by winning their conference, but each of whom is viewed as weaker than Florida.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Ah, then I do agree with what Creme says, and yes his bracketology has to be based on what he expects to happen (in its final version) and not necessarily what he thinks should happen. The committee members all use their own separate criteria, but from what I have read for the men and for comparisons of RPI rankings and seeds, it doesn't appear that the members look at RPI heavily. But still, it is the most cited ranking in articles because it is the safe PC one. Just annoying.