Conference Realignment: WAC/ASUN Football Only Conference | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Conference Realignment: WAC/ASUN Football Only Conference

Rich said:
If you discount all other sports outside of football, you could justify something like:

URI
William & Mary
Richmond
Towson
Fordham
Maine
Monmouth
Delaware
Albany
New Hampshire
CCSU
UCONN
Army
UMASS
Sacred Heart
Charleston

2 8 team divisions.
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I'd rather be in the AAC. You're going to send UConn football to Orono, Maine and Long Branch, NJ? Think about it, please. This is essentially an FCS conference. Joke.
 
ThabeetDown said:
A football-only conference of UConn, UMass, Army, Temple is a great start. Just don't think there are any other teams that geographically fit. Don't think it's worth reaching down to the CAA and pulling in those FCS teams to re-create Yankee Conference 2.0 (essentially would be like dropping down to FCS).

No one would leave the MAC (Buffalo) and Navy ain't going to leave the AAC (having Southern schools in their conference is important for their recruiting -- for military service -- not for football). I don't even know if those other schools you listed would make a move like that as well, why would they want to go play in East Hartford and Amherst in November every year when they don't have to leave their region in their new conferences.
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If Buffalo could leave the MAC just for football for this conference, of course they will. It puts them in coastal markets which is where they need to recruit students from, and in a brand with flagships and military academies instead of rust belt directional schools. Navy wouldn't leave the current AAC, but once the schools leave for the Big XII I don't see why the revised AAC pairs them with better brands than the conference I posited.
 
SubbaBub said:
Here's the problem with this for UConn.

Which other schools (9 minimum) can UConn combine with that are so geographically disconnected from their current FB conference that moving FB will make up for the obvious loss of revenue from their current affiliation.

Let cross off a few at the jump.

Zero B1G or SEC teams would consider this unless those conference start kicking out FB programs or the big ones leave to form a super conference, which they won't.

I don't see the B12 or ACC combining losing members unless a subset of those two can being in a lot more money. Even then the current members will be selected first. This is unlikely because you would need at least 2 bell cow level programs to emerge from this group with national interest. Right now they have zero if Clemson's run is over. I don't see anyone in the New B12 that has a chance. Best case is Clemson, Miami, and FSU all re-emerge and decide they can make more if they lose a few mouths and take the best 7 others from the ACC/B12. They might even be able to form an all sports league with the right schools. Again, unlikely.

The PAC12 remnants might do this by adding local (NoCal/PNW) programs in all sports and for a separate FB league with 4-6 best available/strategic schools. I don't know where you find 4-6 schools to make that worth more than just replacing UCLA/USC with two other SoCal schools.

The AAC? Hahahahaha. Been there, done that and it's worse now than it was then.

What Dave is really hoping for is reforming the old BE FB schools plus a few others without the need to find homes for the rest of the sports if they don't just join the New BE.

This only works if the business model is optimized at 8-12 teams per conference or a 20-40 team upper division then you might have enough programs to form a national P6 level FB league. Either way, we aren't getting in on that party.

Backfilling an opening in the ACC is still our best chance.
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Good God. Of course that's what we want. But you can't spend your life waiting for the supermodel to come to your house and do you.
 
I know this will never happen until there is complete upheaval in college football, which will eventually happen. But, if the Orange and BC would come back into the Big East, then there would be an underpinning for a pretty good northeastern football conference including UCONN, Temple, Army, Navy, Umass......

Again, I realize the Orange and BC would never do this, but it would be a much better experience for their fanbase. They are becoming completely irrelevant and uncompetitive in the ACC. At some point their fanbases are going to get pretty apathetic about never contending for conference championships. If the BiG and SEC leave the NCAA and/or conferences allow for unequal revenue sharing based on market share, something like this could happen.
 
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Chin Diesel said:
And........................................................attendance drops back down to 10k/game.

That isn't happening.
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It's absurd to think the conference I've posited would kill attendance. An 8 team conference doesn't stop you from scheduling 4 P-5 teams a year if you can. Have you seen our schedule going forward? You think most years we're going to have more than 2 P-5 teams a year coming to the Rent anyway? Why are Temple and USF and Army and Navy worse draws than Rice and Georgia Southern and James friggin Madison? I don't care that he took the notes from the Constitutional Convention.
 
businesslawyer said:
Obviously, we would like to be at a P-5 level, as it exists today. But failing that, and we don't have control over it, if you can do football only conferences, and play everything else where you are, there are six FBS teams in the Northeast that are not P-5: UConn, UMass, Army, Navy, Buffalo and Temple. Add upgrading FCS schools like 'Nova, Delaware or New Hampshire, expand the region and include Marshall and ECU, go to Florida and add USF and FAU -- all things that give you the ability to have a FBS level conference that is geographically reasonable and allows football to survive without leaving the Big East.

Because while chaos is an opportunity, it isn't always good and we do have to be ready for the day that the P-5 reduces the number of games it wants to have with G-5 schools.
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This ain't bad either. Missed it. I'm not hung up on the 9 member number. If they allow FB only conferences maybe 8 team conferences could also exist. I'd love for 5 OOC games for Benedict to schedule interesting opportunities.
 
Chin Diesel said:
And........................................................attendance drops back down to 10k/game.

That isn't happening.
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How? If we play 4 P5, 1 FCS, and 7 conference games against regional opponents, we will be fine.
 
UConn's best hope to be in any respectable conference is a collapse of the ACC. I'd see the B10/B12/SEC divving up the scraps to get up to 18-20 teams. 20 is a magic number as you can play the 9 conf games in division every year and then have your ship game.

B10 East:
1. Maryland
2. PSU
3. Duke
4. UVA
5. UNC
6. Michigan
7. Ohio State
8. Rutgers
9. IU
10. Va Tech (this is ND's spot if they want it, don't think they give up Indy with the 12 team CFP now).

B10 West:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Wisco
4. Illinois
5. Iowa
6. Minnesota
7. Nebraska
8. NW
9. Purdue
10. Wisco

SEC East:
1. Florida
2. UGA
3. SC
4. Kentucky
5. Tennessee
6. Vandy
7. Clemson
8. FSU
9. Miami
10. Ga Tech?

SEC West:
1. Bama
2. Ark
3. Auburn
4. LSU
5. Ole Miss
6. Miss St
7. A&M
8. OU
9. Texas
10. Mizzou

B12 East:
1. WVU
2. UCF
3. Cincy
4. Lville
5. Pitt
6. NC State
7. Wake
8. BC
9. Cuse
10. UConn*

B12 West:
1. Baylor
2. ISU
3. Kansas
4. KSU
5. OK State
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. BYU
9. Houston
10. Colorado*

We're still left out in the cold if the B12/B10 goes into the P12 rather than divvy up the ACC schools. I'd sign up for B12 East in football no doubt -- but depends how badly B12 wants to get to 20 teams to get on that SEC/B10 level. Add us to B12 East and maybe they can poach Colorado to bring em back to B12 West with Coach Prime. For bball, if you want to keep that 20 conf game magic number, play all the teams in B12 East twice (so 18 games) and then add 2 rotating from the other side? I'd sign up for that B12 East basketball schedule in all sports...hybrid OBE, no one is too far, solid balance, etc. B12 Baseball conference wouldn't be that bad either...
 
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ThabeetDown said:
UConn's best hope to be in any respectable conference is a collapse of the ACC. I'd see the B10/B12/SEC divving up the scraps to get up to 18-20 teams. 20 is a magic number as you can play the 9 conf games in division every year and then have your ship game.

B10 East:
1. Maryland
2. PSU
3. Duke
4. UVA
5. UNC
6. Michigan
7. Ohio State
8. Rutgers
9. IU
10. Va Tech (this is ND's spot if they want it, don't think they give up Indy with the 12 team CFP now).

B10 West:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Wisco
4. Illinois
5. Iowa
6. Minnesota
7. Nebraska
8. NW
9. Purdue
10. Wisco

SEC East:
1. Florida
2. UGA
3. SC
4. Kentucky
5. Tennessee
6. Vandy
7. Clemson
8. FSU
9. Miami
10. Ga Tech?

SEC West:
1. Bama
2. Ark
3. Auburn
4. LSU
5. Ole Miss
6. Miss St
7. A&M
8. OU
9. Texas
10. Mizzou

B12 East:
1. WVU
2. UCF
3. Cincy
4. Lville
5. Pitt
6. NC State
7. Wake
8. BC
9. Cuse
10. UConn*

B12 West:
1. Baylor
2. ISU
3. Kansas
4. KSU
5. OK State
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. BYU
9. Houston
10. Colorado*

We're still left out in the cold unless B12/B10 goes into the P12 rather than divvy up the ACC schools. I'd sign up for B12 East in football no doubt -- but depends how badly B12 wants to get to 20 teams to get on that SEC/B10 level. Add us to B12 East and maybe they can poach Colorado to bring em back to B12 West with Coach Prime. For bball, if you want to keep that 20 conf game magic number, play all the teams in B12 East twice (so 18 games) and then add 2 rotating from the other side? I'd sign up for that B12 East basketball schedule in all sports...hybrid OBE, no one is too far, solid balance, etc. B12 Baseball conference wouldn't be that bad either...
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I agree that it will take something like the disbanding of the ACC for UCONN to end up with the big fish. But, I think the BiG and SEC have been playing chess while everyone else has been playing checkers. They are grabbing huge markets (Texas, SoCal) and they will grab more from the PAC. I don't think they need anything more from B12 and except for UNC and Virginia, I don't think they need to wait for the ACC GOR to expire. I don't know why they would hang around in the NCAA when this is all said and done.
 
uconndogs said:
I agree that it will take something like the disbanding of the ACC for UCONN to end up with the big fish. But, I think the BiG and SEC have been playing chess while everyone else has been playing checkers. They are grabbing huge markets (Texas, SoCal) and they will grab more from the PAC. I don't think they need anything more from B12 and except for UNC and Virginia, I don't think they need to wait for the ACC GOR to expire. I don't know why they would hang around in the NCAA when this is all said and done.
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Agreed. I think they don't mind adding Duke/Va Tech though to get to 20. They'll wait for the GOR to expire no doubt -- but I think the ACC schools find a way out via a lawsuit before that expires which would open all of this up. Also, east coast schools are way more attractive than the non-LA P12 schools. Oregon and MAYBE Washington could go B10 instead of Duke/Va Tech, sure. But i think east coast eyeballs > west coast eyeballs (outside of LA). Population of NC+VA is ~19m vs ~12m of OR+WA not to mention the time zone factor...plus the Duke bball brand would prop up the football brand enough too to make including them worth it.
 
ThabeetDown said:
Agreed. I think they don't mind adding Duke/Va Tech though to get to 20. They'll wait for the GOR to expire no doubt -- but I think the ACC schools find a way out via a lawsuit before that expires which would open all of this up. Also, east coast schools are way more attractive than the non-LA P12 schools. Oregon and MAYBE Washington could go B10 instead of Duke/Va Tech, sure. But i think east coast eyeballs > west coast eyeballs (outside of LA). Population of NC+VA is ~19m vs ~12m of OR+WA not to mention the time zone factor...plus the Duke bball brand would prop up the football brand enough too to make including them worth it.
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You might be right, but I don't think Duke and VT bring much to the table for the BiG and/or SEC. I think the programs in the biggest yank in the ACC are FSU and Clemson. I suspect the SEC would love another FLA school and FSU would be the target. I don't think Miami gets the nod. As for Clemson, the SEC might very well be saying USCarolina is enough for that market. BiG and/or SEC want Virginia and UNC and I'm willing to bet both those schools are kicking themselves for not going to the BiG when Maryland did (I have to believe they had the opportunity).

What's going to be very interesting is when these media deals get negotiated. I have a hard time believing that Miss State is going to end up with the same share as Texas when all these pigs get to the trough.
 
Chin Diesel said:
And........................................................attendance drops back down to 10k/game.

That isn't happening.
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You are grossly overrating our non-september HOME schedule as an independent. It's mostly an ad hoc crap fest. A northestern conference like the one being discussed would be a nice upgrade. The september home schedule can look much like it does now even if we joined a confernece. (4 P5 games plus an 8 game conference schedule)
 
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businesslawyer said:
It's absurd to think the conference I've posited would kill attendance. An 8 team conference doesn't stop you from scheduling 4 P-5 teams a year if you can. Have you seen our schedule going forward? You think most years we're going to have more than 2 P-5 teams a year coming to the Rent anyway? Why are Temple and USF and Army and Navy worse draws than Rice and Georgia Southern and James friggin Madison? I don't care that he took the notes from the Constitutional Convention.
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shizzle787 said:
How? If we play 4 P5, 1 FCS, and 7 conference games against regional opponents, we will be fine.
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Because half of those "conference games" have proven to be duds for UConn fans. UConn fans aren't showing up for Memphis, ECU, FAU. Might get some for Temple. Oddly enough, USF is the group UConn has the best history of significant games and wins.
 
The only incentives I see to forego independence: highest ranked G5 conference team gets an auto bid to the playoffs and should our scheduling of future series become increasingly problematic.

Perception wise I think standing alone on the Independence island carries a little more cache than being in a G5 league. Not sure if that's just the initial novelty of it, but at least to me I'd rather play a rotating schedule especially consider the games that interest me the most in this proposed leagues (UMass Temple Army) we already have scheduling agreements in place with.
 
ThabeetDown said:
UConn's best hope to be in any respectable conference is a collapse of the ACC. I'd see the B10/B12/SEC divving up the scraps to get up to 18-20 teams. 20 is a magic number as you can play the 9 conf games in division every year and then have your ship game.

B10 East:
1. Maryland
2. PSU
3. Duke
4. UVA
5. UNC
6. Michigan
7. Ohio State
8. Rutgers
9. IU
10. Va Tech (this is ND's spot if they want it, don't think they give up Indy with the 12 team CFP now).

B10 West:
1. USC
2. UCLA
3. Wisco
4. Illinois
5. Iowa
6. Minnesota
7. Nebraska
8. NW
9. Purdue
10. Wisco

SEC East:
1. Florida
2. UGA
3. SC
4. Kentucky
5. Tennessee
6. Vandy
7. Clemson
8. FSU
9. Miami
10. Ga Tech?

SEC West:
1. Bama
2. Ark
3. Auburn
4. LSU
5. Ole Miss
6. Miss St
7. A&M
8. OU
9. Texas
10. Mizzou

B12 East:
1. WVU
2. UCF
3. Cincy
4. Lville
5. Pitt
6. NC State
7. Wake
8. BC
9. Cuse
10. UConn*

B12 West:
1. Baylor
2. ISU
3. Kansas
4. KSU
5. OK State
6. TCU
7. Texas Tech
8. BYU
9. Houston
10. Colorado*

We're still left out in the cold if the B12/B10 goes into the P12 rather than divvy up the ACC schools. I'd sign up for B12 East in football no doubt -- but depends how badly B12 wants to get to 20 teams to get on that SEC/B10 level. Add us to B12 East and maybe they can poach Colorado to bring em back to B12 West with Coach Prime. For bball, if you want to keep that 20 conf game magic number, play all the teams in B12 East twice (so 18 games) and then add 2 rotating from the other side? I'd sign up for that B12 East basketball schedule in all sports...hybrid OBE, no one is too far, solid balance, etc. B12 Baseball conference wouldn't be that bad either...
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This is somewhat the more realistic path going forward except some of those 60 will be tier 1 programs getting bucket loads of money and some will be more like affiliate or associate members taking a smaller paycheck but having the security and protection of an overarching organization for TV and olympic sports.
 
Corresponding moves in parenthesis. I will say I would much prefer the ACC invite, lol.

Starting Four:
1. UConn
2. UMass
3. Buffalo (MAC -> A10)
4. Delaware (from FCS)

Easier Options:
1. Army - I think Army might prefer independence. It would be hard to get them without a good TV deal (in terms of exposure, not money)
2. Villanova (from FCS) - Would have to be induced to be in a good spot with this league

Unlikely Options:
1. ECU - This league's deal and whatever league they end up in for Olympics would have to beat the ~$6m AAC payout, which seems like it might be a hard sell.
2. Temple - See above. They're in a worse spot than ECU but I don't think they're going to forego cash to play a NE football schedule.

Doesn't Make Sense Options:
1. Marshall - Somewhat fits the footprint but Sun Belt will probably be a better league and they just joined
2. James Madison - See Marshall
3. Old Dominion - See Marshall

Backfill options to get to 8:
1. Western Kentucky - Not really in the footprint but could prob benefit financially from league and they tried to leave CUSA
2. Middle Tennessee - See WKU
3. Akron/Toledo/etc - We're now basically losing the point of doing this exercise
 
Chin Diesel said:
Because half of those "conference games" have proven to be duds for UConn fans. UConn fans aren't showing up for Memphis, ECU, FAU. Might get some for Temple. Oddly enough, USF is the group UConn has the best history of significant games and wins.
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What are you comparing this to? Have you seen our schedule at home for the next few years?
 
I just have no interest in a conference if it is worse than the american (this is way worse than the american). It was a disaster for our program, I would almost rather drop down then join that mess. For me it really comes down to moving up in the case of an ACC implosion or continuing as an independent
 
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businesslawyer said:
Obviously, we would like to be at a P-5 level, as it exists today. But failing that, and we don't have control over it, if you can do football only conferences, and play everything else where you are, there are six FBS teams in the Northeast that are not P-5: UConn, UMass, Army, Navy, Buffalo and Temple. Add upgrading FCS schools like 'Nova, Delaware or New Hampshire, expand the region and include Marshall and ECU, go to Florida and add USF and FAU -- all things that give you the ability to have a FBS level conference that is geographically reasonable and allows football to survive without leaving the Big East.

Because while chaos is an opportunity, it isn't always good and we do have to be ready for the day that the P-5 reduces the number of games it wants to have with G-5 schools.
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I doubt UNH or Maine will ever upgrade to FBS, so I think those will be NO, Delaware and Nova might, Richmond would be nice. FAU 9r USF would be great...
 
Rich said:
If you discount all other sports outside of football, you could justify something like:

URI
William & Mary
Richmond
Towson
Fordham
Maine
Monmouth
Delaware
Albany
New Hampshire
CCSU
UCONN
Army
UMASS
Sacred Heart
Charleston

2 8 team divisions.
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Now you're just being silly.
 
Bad idea. What some of you don’t get is that the supermodel coming over to your house isn’t a pipe dream if you’ve got something to attract her. Let’s stop with the inferiority complex. I believe something is afoot in the ACC that may produce a breech in the GOR stranglehold—and UConn is a main attraction for them—according to BC and others. Perhaps our beauty queen has seen us in a short robe with a glass of single malt. Don’t settle for the lonely hearts club.
 
businesslawyer said:
Good God. Of course that's what we want. But you can't spend your life waiting for the supermodel to come to your house and do you.
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So long as the wife doesn't find out. I can wait.

This idea that UConn needs to join a non-P5 conference is morbidly outdated. Unless the ACC wants to kick Miami, FSU, Pitt, Cuse, BC, VT and UL to the curb or vice versa, we are better being an independent with a larger pool of quality, emphasize quality, of other independents with friendly scheduling agreements.

The power of a conference is in the media money. These G5 and sub-G5 schools don't bring additional money no matter how you slice them.

I'm now certain that Dave is referring to more programs going independent if their FB fortunes are not up to expectations.

We may yet see a superleague break away from the rest and take the CFP / cable money with them. In that case the P5 leftovers will need to decide how to respond. Without the big money, they may find reconstituting the old regional conferences is best but it has rarely worked out that cleanly.

There would still be haves and have nots among the rejected set and those schools will independently assess how far flung and all sports conference needs to be before separating FB. If the new Tobacco Road Conference wants to take UConn BB and is willing to travel here once a year then we will jump on the chance for all of our teams to travel their 10 times as often. If it's the Zombie AAC, then no.

Under no circumstances will we ever be in a FB conference with Buffalo. I don't comprehend how others on this board can consider that anything but a joke.
 
SubbaBub said:
we are better being an independent with a larger pool of quality, emphasize quality, of other independents with friendly scheduling agreements.
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You keep saying we'd be better off with options that don't exist. No one disagrees that what you want would be better. But we're going to be down to about 4 independents by next year, and we can't make other schools be independent.
 
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