Conference Realignment Post Mortem Thread

[uconnyankee]

Every time I see those announcements of UConn playing at MSG, I laugh and I hope that Brett Yormark chokes on them. I guess you could say I'm bitter LOL. I think I quoted Yormark's remarks about basketball and NYC more than anyone.

Any Big12 event in NYC should have a nearby UConn event at the same time.

 

[Kolumbo]

The fact that UConn MBB is playing four regular season games at Madison Square Garden (I presume one of them will be vs St Johns) is something to take note of. They are proactively claiming NYC as their market by being there frequently so when markets are in play in future negotiations, they are well positioned to harp on that in a legitimate fashion. That fact that WBB games are on SNY is another plus for connections there. There's no guarantee this strategy will pay dividends but at least it's an attempt to distinguish themselves within their home market and be propped up by NYC too when the next wave of expansion or realignment transpires. Certainly they can claim more presence in the NYC market than the lottery winning Rutgers programs can.

Granted your post was directed at football, but success and UConn butts in the seats at the "world's most famous arena" isn't a bad thing to promote.

These are great sentiments and we' d all like to believe these actions actually matter. If there's one thing we've learned over and over again, "basketball doesn't matter" is a huge understatement.

 

[noeynox]

I don’t know that a couple of extra wins by Mora will move the needle that much. Colorado’s football program has been a dumpster fire for its entire history, and it gets to jump to whatever league it wants. ASU and Utah are redundant from a market perspective, and both beat out UConn in this round of realignment. 8-4 vs 7-5 is not going to matter.

The Transfer Portal and NIL will flatten out talent, so UConn can continue to be competitive on the field if it wants to commit to it. The bigger issue is that UConn has to figure out a way to dominate the northeast market from BCU and Syracuse, and do it in a way that is objectively measurable. Leveraging basketball can go a long way to this. Subscriptions through a streaming service is one way, but I am sure there are others. Until conferences think that they must have UConn to be in the northeast, we will never be in a major conference.

I like this post, but if you're in the P5 club you are viewed differently than a G5 school. G5 to P5 you it has been shown you need to demonstrate excellence. Not easy and takes financial commitment.

 

[Patrick79]

We might have to schedule BCU & SU and others by agreeing to play 2 out 3 games at their stadiums. I think we should schedule Navy home and home to go along with Army.

Our biggest threat is BCU actually getting their act together and hiring a competent coach.

BC are scoundrels, but I've come to view rival competition as a good thing. Sure I know that we'd lose out on some recruits but overall I think it would benefit BC, Syracuse and Uconn if the three programs were good and had energetic rivals. That truly would build interest in college football in the North East.

 

[buddy]

The fact that UConn MBB is playing four regular season games at Madison Square Garden (I presume one of them will be vs St Johns) is something to take note of. They are proactively claiming NYC as their market by being there frequently so when markets are in play in future negotiations, they are well positioned to harp on that in a legitimate fashion. That fact that WBB games are on SNY is another plus for connections there. There's no guarantee this strategy will pay dividends but at least it's an attempt to distinguish themselves within their home market and be propped up by NYC too when the next wave of expansion or realignment transpires. Certainly they can claim more presence in the NYC market than the lottery winning Rutgers programs can.

Granted your post was directed at football, but success and UConn butts in the seats at the "world's most famous arena" isn't a bad thing to promote.

Clearly it is meaningless in conference realignment. UConn fans could occupy every seat in MSG and it would not make a difference in getting into a power conference.

 

[buddy]

Every time I see those announcements of UConn playing at MSG, I laugh and I hope that Brett Yormark chokes on them. I guess you could say I'm bitter LOL. I think I quoted Yormark's remarks about basketball and NYC more than anyone.

It was all a scam.

 

[JeepCSC]

Sell out MetLife Stadium, and then you’re cooking.

 

[NH Husky]

I think post mortem is premature. Look how much the conference landscape has changed in just the last month.
In the P2 or P4 or whatever it becomes there are and will always be football centric and basketball centric schools. Rarely do you see both and it doesn’t last long (ie Michigan, Florida). Clearly Bama, USC, and Penn St are football centric.
UCONN needs to recognize we are now and will likely always fall into the basketball centric category. Kentucky is already P2. Kansas and North Carolina are P4. By all measures NC has positioned themselves for a B1G invite. We need to look like them.
How? Continue 3 - 4 independent seasons and dominate by year 4 by beating all G5 level competition and occasionally upset some big boys. Hopefully that leads to a G5 football only invite. Then dominate that league to open an invite to Big XII or ACC. Then start to represent like UNC and see what happens.
Mora so far looks like someone who may be able to navigate that but if we have a crappy season we’ll all be calling for his firing. The AD needs to act quick and with credibility. Mora’s age and credentials are not that far off from PP when hired.

 

[Rdkid]

If something’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well. Win football games, regardless of the opponent and the football program fits well within the excellence of the overall athletic department. That’s the key moving forward for any expansion bid. We lost our way in football (and MBB for that matter) not getting the initial invite. Interest, $, and competitiveness bottomed out. Regardless of the conference or schedule, find your lane, win with the resources you have, and interest follows. Don’t be an outlier in your own athletic department. Men’s and women’s soccer, you’re on notice, btw.

Yeah, I’m the weirdo who looks at how all UConn teams and student-athletes fare.

 

[Rdkid]

One more point about football: Playing winnable games at home under the Indy flag with Mora at the helm for the next few years means 1) competitive football 2) not emptying your wallet to enjoy a game 3) underdogs to root for - especially some of these overachieving kids 4) a tasty tailgate if you so choose.

There are worse ways to spend a Saturday (or Thursday night). My hope is we average a real 20+k. The kids deserve at least that when they’re putting out.

 

[DblCrossbar]

Clearly it is meaningless in conference realignment. UConn fans could occupy every seat in MSG and it would not make a difference in getting into a power conference.

This recent shuffling shows that NYC market presence is far from meaningless, but it was also not sufficient on its own either. Were it not for that fact, UConn would not even have been sniffed out as a candidate for the B12. It took the total collapse of a 100+ year athletic conference to deny them a seat. Far from meaningless…

 

[giddyup]

I will be and I imagine more people than we've had buying them over the past half dozen years.

I imagine from your handle that you will be attending games. I personally believe that as winning becomes a more consistent part of the program our attendance will increase but it needs to increase but quite a bit, and it needs to be due to fans showing up to watch UConn more than because of who the opponent is.

The message that needs to be sent to the entirety of our fans bases and alumni base:

If you are a fan of the school and want what's best for it's future, go to UConn football games.
If you are a fan of the men's basketball program and want what's best for it's future, go to UConn football games.
If you are a fan of the women's basketball program and want what's best for it's future, go to UConn football games.
If you are a fan of the baseball, hockey or soccer programs and want what's best for their future, go to UConn football games.

I don’t think that dog hunts anymore. That message was used for a decade to keep football from total collapse. The diehard football fan base hung with the team when it was just throwing away money. They must put a better product on the field which includes scheduling quality opponents.

 

[uconnric]

It was all a scam.

No it was never a scam. Yormark had us in the conversation. Until the announcement of the Pac12 tv deal, it was not a sure thing that the league would blow up. I can't blame Yormark for taking the AZ schools and Utah, that's probably what Big12 AD's preferred, given our football team's poor recent history-that part is our own fault.

Yormark promoted us, but in the end it's the school AD's/Admin's who choose who to accept. Sure we're disappointed, but conference realignment is not over (ACC) and there will be more shuffling. We'll get there eventually. I have a lot of confidence in our current coaches and AD Dave.

Now let's put some butts in the seats and win some games!

 

[hoopsfan22]

No it was never a scam. Yormark had us in the conversation. Until the announcement of the Pac12 tv deal, it was not a sure thing that the league would blow up. I can't blame Yormark for taking the AZ schools and Utah, that's probably what Big12 AD's preferred, given our football team's poor recent history-that part is our own fault.

Yormark promoted us, but in the end it's the school AD's/Admin's who choose who to accept. Sure we're disappointed, but conference realignment is not over (ACC) and there will be more shuffling. We'll get there eventually. I have a lot of confidence in our current coaches and AD Dave.

Now let's put some butts in the seats and win some games!

By the time we get there it won't matter.

 

[buddy]

By the time we get there it won't matter.

When Yormark mentioned UConn in his final statement, UConn was linked with Gonzaga. I am wondering if it was a basketball only invite. That would not have been helpful to UConn at all. He toyed with us. The Big 12 door has been shut to UConn now as they likely will wait until ACC schools become available and they will take precedence over UConn, leaving UConn shut out again. AD Dave has been silent as he likely feels betrayed as well. This was a devastating blow, at least for me....and with all the talk of Calford to the ACC, UConn not even in the conversation. It even looks like the ACC will take SMU as well! Unbelievable!

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I don’t think that dog hunts anymore. That message was used for a decade to keep football from total collapse. The diehard football fan base hung with the team when it was just throwing away money. They must put a better product on the field which includes scheduling quality opponents.

Last year was a start, in fact, it was a far better start than most could have hoped for. Yes, regardless of intent, there was a half decade stretch where if the the goal had been to completely destroy the program they appeared to be succeeding but we should see steady improvement going forward and by the middle of year four in the Mora era (if not sooner) we will have quite a few ranking votes.

Well, hosting both NC St and Duke has to have some value and Utah St finished the year in the top 20 not long ago. USF is a decent program for the fourth best home opponent (for what we currently are, a basically insignificant independent) while FIU is acceptable (at the moment) as the fifth best (although the hope is that the day will arrive where a school like this will be the worst home opponent on the schedule). It may take time for the administration to eliminate an FCS opponent on the schedule each year but as this had been standard practice even when we were at our best, it is difficult to complain too much about Sacred Heart.

Hopefully you aren't one of the detractors who, after everything, will reply "but to make it worthwhile we'll need to schedule x amount of ranked teams at home.", followed by "yeah, but we should be able to bring in this big name or that big name regularly if we expect our fan base to be interested". I'm fully aware that there are some for who nothing will ever be good enough. Please don't be one of them.

I'll make a deal with you, pick a game, this year, next year, whenever, I'll provide the tickets and the tailgate (plenty of good food and drink). The only thing it will cost you is getting to and from the Rent and the time needed for the tailgate & game. If afterward you view it as worth the effort, you'll go to a stray game on your own dime and ask some friends to consider doing the same. If it doesn't end up being worth the effort in your eyes, you will have at least had some good food and drink for the time invested.

 

[ZooCougar]

I've seen this conversation pop-up across different threads and thought it needed a better home. I'm ready to move on, but also think its interesting to reflect on what has transpired now that things have cooled off. A couple of my observations:

1) Uconn is in pretty good shape today. We're not in a P5, but compare us to our old rivals: Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, BC and West Virginia. I'd argue that we've built our brand more, have better coaches and more athletic success than the group. Sure those schools benefit from better conference contracts, but from a 'Cuse POV (for example), we were near equals in basketball in the early 2,000's and now Uconn is a truly national brand, a Blue Blood and 'Cuse is in the wilderness. Nobody has even heard of BC at this point. It isn't unreasonable to make the case that "we won" in the end.

2) Schools missed the point. Traditional rivalries really matter. If CR is all about $$$, and $$$ is about eyes on TVs - you have to have exciting athletics. You only get that with games that matter. This I think is why Uconn floundered in the AAC and our old rivals are largely irrelevant today. Nothing would be better for Syracuse and Pitt than to be in the BE and play Uconn in the Garden. Yet I remember when they left the BE they widely declared how they fit better culturally, academically, etc. with the ACC. How's that working out for ya?

3) Getting to a P5 in the long-term is important. Though I'm glad we'll likely have at least a few more years of BE conference tournaments and interesting independent fball schedules, there is too much risk out there to assume we'll be able to keep up with the P5s in the long-term. I'm talking about facilities, coaches, NIL AND issues like access to national championships and tournaments. My assumption is that we need to be looking pretty strong / attractive at least a couple of years before 2036 at the very latest, but maybe much sooner. I think 10 years of decent football play (average years, plus a few years with strong records), crowds and name building would put us in the best position possible for long-term realignment. Building our brand into NY during this time wouldn't hurt. I don't know how to square this with #2 above since I do think changing conferences will ultimately hurt Uconn in a different kind of way. I think this is what is at the heart of the debates we've all had in this forum...we kind of all recognize that while we need the money, we may find that the games don't matter too much anymore and there is less to care about.

4) Change may happen sooner. To me it seems that the B12 may come knocking the next year or two. I also believe the ACC would be foolish to not target Uconn. They're falling behind in numbers and there aren't a hell of a lot of possible schools left.

The ACC does not want UConn.

Repeat this to yourself as often as it takes to get this to finally register.

Maybe someday in the late 2030s we’ll be in a place with whoever gets left out from old ACC.

Maybe not.

What we have today is the way. Nobody else is coming.

 

[BlueandOG]

Last year was a start, in fact, it was a far better start than most could have hoped for. Yes, regardless of intent, there was a half decade stretch where if the the goal had been to completely destroy the program they appeared to be succeeding but we should see steady improvement going forward and by the middle of year four in the Mora era (if not sooner) we will have quite a few ranking votes.

Well, hosting both NC St and Duke has to have some value and Utah St finished the year in the top 20 not long ago. USF is a decent program for the fourth best home opponent (for what we currently are, a basically insignificant independent) while FIU is acceptable (at the moment) as the fifth best (although the hope is that the day will arrive where a school like this will be the worst home opponent on the schedule). It may take time for the administration to eliminate an FCS opponent on the schedule each year but as this had been standard practice even when we were at our best, it is difficult to complain too much about Sacred Heart.

Hopefully you aren't one of the detractors who, after everything, will reply "but to make it worthwhile we'll need to schedule x amount of ranked teams at home.", followed by "yeah, but we should be able to bring in this big name or that big name regularly if we expect our fan base to be interested". I'm fully aware that there are some for who nothing will ever be good enough. Please don't be one of them.

I'll make a deal with you, pick a game, this year, next year, whenever, I'll provide the tickets and the tailgate (plenty of good food and drink). The only thing it will cost you is getting to and from the Rent and the time needed for the tailgate & game. If afterward you view it as worth the effort, you'll go to a stray game on your own dime and ask some friends to consider doing the same. If it doesn't end up being worth the effort in your eyes, you will have at least had some good food and drink for the time invested.

I attend almost all of the football games and would love to join your tailgate! You had me at "plenty of good food and drink."

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I attend almost all of the football games and would love to join your tailgate! You had me at "plenty of good food and drink."

When I figure out which flags I'll be flying I'll post it. Would love to have you stop by. Also extended earlier offers to a few other boneyarders, they are welcome as are any who I may have mistakenly overlooked.

In the middle of this upcoming week we'll be planning the logistics and menu. Next weekend will be testing all of the gear to ensure it's all in working order then after that it will be prep time for the food. One quick bit of info: it may be too early to break out the pizza oven so that won't debut for a few weeks.

 

[giddyup]

Last year was a start, in fact, it was a far better start than most could have hoped for. Yes, regardless of intent, there was a half decade stretch where if the the goal had been to completely destroy the program they appeared to be succeeding but we should see steady improvement going forward and by the middle of year four in the Mora era (if not sooner) we will have quite a few ranking votes.

Well, hosting both NC St and Duke has to have some value and Utah St finished the year in the top 20 not long ago. USF is a decent program for the fourth best home opponent (for what we currently are, a basically insignificant independent) while FIU is acceptable (at the moment) as the fifth best (although the hope is that the day will arrive where a school like this will be the worst home opponent on the schedule). It may take time for the administration to eliminate an FCS opponent on the schedule each year but as this had been standard practice even when we were at our best, it is difficult to complain too much about Sacred Heart.

Hopefully you aren't one of the detractors who, after everything, will reply "but to make it worthwhile we'll need to schedule x amount of ranked teams at home.", followed by "yeah, but we should be able to bring in this big name or that big name regularly if we expect our fan base to be interested". I'm fully aware that there are some for who nothing will ever be good enough. Please don't be one of them.

I'll make a deal with you, pick a game, this year, next year, whenever, I'll provide the tickets and the tailgate (plenty of good food and drink). The only thing it will cost you is getting to and from the Rent and the time needed for the tailgate & game. If afterward you view it as worth the effort, you'll go to a stray game on your own dime and ask some friends to consider doing the same. If it doesn't end up being worth the effort in your eyes, you will have at least had some good food and drink for the time invested.

The point is quality opponents matter if we want to expand the base. I’m not talking about the great stuff happening on the field. A bottom dwelling MAC like schedule isn’t going to cut it, especially if we wish to be considered for a power conference. With CR and super conference scheduling , we are perilously close to being unable to schedule any P4 teams. The is a big picture issue.

Literally tomorrow we could have a few PAC teams on the slate. Id get home and away with Stanford, Cal, WSU and OSU on the schedule over the next 4 years. One west coast trip a year isn’t going to kill us. We could have one come in and we go out for the other filling 2 games a year.

 

[Khal Drogo]

When I figure out which flags I'll be flying I'll post it. Would love to have you stop by. Also extended earlier offers to a few other boneyarders, they are welcome as are any who I may have mistakenly overlooked.

In the middle of this upcoming week we'll be planning the logistics and menu. Next weekend will be testing all of the gear to ensure it's all in working order then after that it will be prep time for the food. One quick bit of info: it may be too early to break out the pizza oven so that won't debut for a few weeks.

What about Bobby Boucher

 

[FfldCntyFan]

What about Bobby Boucher

If he wears the UConn hat he's welcome. He just can't start a fight with Bob Barker

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The point is quality opponents matter if we want to expand the base. I’m not talking about the great stuff happening on the field. A bottom dwelling MAC like schedule isn’t going to cut it, especially if we wish to be considered for a power conference. With CR and super conference scheduling , we are perilously close to being unable to schedule any P4 teams. The is a big picture issue.

Literally tomorrow we could have a few PAC teams on the slate. Id get home and away with Stanford, Cal, WSU and OSU on the schedule over the next 4 years. One west coast trip a year isn’t going to kill us. We could have one come in and we go out for the other filling 2 games a year.

I agree fully.

I personally believe that the remaining PAC schools should work out a situation where they are merged with the WCC for all sports except football (so their Olympic sports won't have to pile up tens of thousands of frequent flyer miles every season) and operate as football independents with scheduling arrangements with each other. Among other things, this will allow (if one school has a good enough football season, that school would receive a full share of a CFP payout) them to maintain their athletics at a reasonable level. I also have a slightly selfish angle on this as I would want an extended scheduling arrangement with these schools for us.

One thing we will need to face (keep in mind, this is how schools like Miami and FSU were able to gain credibility as national powers 40+ years ago) is that we will have to be road warriors at some level to play top level schools. What some call body bag games will actually be opportunities to both gain a payday and compete at the highest level. After a few years of winning some of these we may be able to gain a sufficient enough ranking where we can schedule a stray home game or two against a name opponent.

If you are worried about being able to schedule any P4 opponents, we should be able to. If you are worried about being able to schedule home games against top P4 opponents, that will only happen if schools like Syracuse, Duke and BC have seasons where they are near the top of the rannkings.

 

[uconnric]

When Yormark mentioned UConn in his final statement, UConn was linked with Gonzaga. I am wondering if it was a basketball only invite. That would not have been helpful to UConn at all. He toyed with us. The Big 12 door has been shut to UConn now as they likely will wait until ACC schools become available and they will take precedence over UConn, leaving UConn shut out again. AD Dave has been silent as he likely feels betrayed as well. This was a devastating blow, at least for me....and with all the talk of Calford to the ACC, UConn not even in the conversation. It even looks like the ACC will take SMU as well! Unbelievable!

At this point the ACC didn’t want us anyway. We had more value to the Big12 than the ACC. SMU would have brought the Dallas market into the conference. Not surprised at all that we weren’t in the ACC conversation

 

[Hoophound]

At this point the ACC didn’t want us anyway. We had more value to the Big12 than the ACC. SMU would have brought the Dallas market into the conference. Not surprised at all that we weren’t in the ACC conversation

The ACC is loaded up on Northeastern disappointment. I’m pretty sure they’d gladly trade BC for us if it were an option. Cuse and BC’s struggles are actually hurting our chances.

 

[giddyup]

At this point the ACC didn’t want us anyway. We had more value to the Big12 than the ACC. SMU would have brought the Dallas market into the conference. Not surprised at all that we weren’t in the ACC conversation

The only conference that makes sense is the B1G and that isn’t happening because they see no necessity. We’ve been effectively blackballed by the ACC, B12 used and abused us, and SEC isn’t playing up north. The whole B12 debacle is infuriating. Boy did we get played for dopes.

 

[kobe]

The only conference that makes sense is the B1G and that isn’t happening because they see no necessity. We’ve been effectively blackballed by the ACC, B12 used and abused us, and SEC isn’t playing up north. The whole B12 debacle is infuriating. Boy did we get played for dopes.

you guys bought into the hype from your boosters and media members.

uconn did talk with the big 12 but it was never serious. people in the media sold you guys on a dream that was never going to happen.

shame on them!

 

[uconnric]

The only conference that makes sense is the B1G and that isn’t happening because they see no necessity. We’ve been effectively blackballed by the ACC, B12 used and abused us, and SEC isn’t playing up north. The whole B12 debacle is infuriating. Boy did we get played for dopes.

We didn’t get in the Big 12 because the Pac12 dissolved and the schools wanted Arizona, ASU and Utah. We didn’t get played.

 

[giddyup]

We didn’t get in the Big 12 because the Pac12 dissolved and the schools wanted Arizona, ASU and Utah. We didn’t get played.

You are confusing outcome with the process and dynamics. They were hedging us precisely to allow for that possibility to arise knowing if Colorado jumped there was a possibility the other corners would follow. Otherwise we would have went with Colorado. We got strung out and played big time.

 

[CL82]

You are confusing outcome with the process and dynamics. They were hedging us precisely to allow for that possibility to arise knowing if Colorado jumped there was a possibility the other corners would follow. Otherwise we would have went with Colorado. We got strung out and played big time.

Disagree. If Oregon and Washington don't decide to accept half shares to the big 10, we were in. We have heard from PAC 12 school saying that they show up at the PAC 12 meeting, that GOR was going to be signed. It was that close.

sing that we were "played" means that there was never any interest in us. The facts don't bear that out. At worst, we were a hedge.