Conference Realignment — Aka Pillaging, Backstabbing — Settles Down, With UConn Among Big Losers

[Dooley]

OUR MARKET IS NOT SMALL. The hartford-new haven dma is 29 and Fairfield county is part of the NYC dma. With Fairfield county the connecticut dma is 20/21. Wow!

Drives me nuts too when people think of UCONN's market as small. Hartford/New Haven is a good sized market in its own right. Then when you begin to think of the presence that UCONN has in NYC and bit of Boston, you have to scratch your head and wonder how competent some of those TV Execs are for not tapping UCONN earlier!

 

[frankthetank]

RU and MD were tapped almost entirely because of TV Markets and recruiting grounds. I'm not sure anyone has argued otherwise. I think as more interesting teams start showing up in College Park and Piscataway on a regular basis attendance will improve for both.

Yes, this was ultimately what the Big Ten did.

Nebraska was the huge national football brand name with the massive fan base, while Rutgers and Maryland added the cable households and recruiting territories. Sure, every conference would love schools that can bring both (i.e. Texas, Florida, USC), but those are also the very hardest schools to pry away.

FWIW, the Big Ten always wanted Maryland. From a university president conference realignment perspective, they were actually a HUGE get (even if sports fans didn't find it to be a sexy move in general). An AAU school directly in the DC market that was a founding member of the ACC, no matter what anyone says, is a school that has a ton of value in conference realignment world. From a media angle, there was no doubt that Maryland has enough pull in the DC and Baltimore markets to get the BTN onto basic cable there. DC isn't the greatest college sports market, but there's enough critical mass there where you can reasonably assured of making money on college sports there (similar to Chicago with its critical mass of Big Ten alums). When Maryland was willing to come, that was a no-brainer for the Big Ten.

Rutgers and the NYC market were always the big risk. Frankly, I'm a little surprised how quickly the BTN was able to get good carriage deals in the NYC market. Even if it was a reduced price, the fact TWC and Cablevision didn't fight to put BTN on the sports pack is pretty huge. It's always funny when people ask, "Does Jim Delany knows what he's doing?" about a move that looks unconventional or risky on paper (which is something that I've asked from time to time), and when the results come in months or years later, it's very clear that he knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[B1GOSU]

I think UConn would be in a better position if there were more 4/5 star football talent in the state. I remember reading that adding Maryland and Rutgers has essentially doubled the number of 4/5 star recruits that live in B1G territory, if you include Virginia in those numbers (in which case the most populated region of VA is the DC suburbs with direct access to UMD).

As great as the basketball programs are at UConn, the B1G has given no indication that basketball plays any part in expansion. In terms of expansion, I think basketball is lumped in with all the Olympic sports. Now the ACC is a different story. It seems that their expansion has always been about basketball (besides money of course).

Ultimately, I think it comes down to can UConn add enough money to the B1G to not only pay for itself, but to add millions of dollars to the coffers that are split by the rest of the conference? The B1G isn't looking to break even on expansion. New teams have to add money to everyone's pocketbook. With the new P5 football payout, that becomes harder and harder, as any new conference teams would receive a share of the new P5 football payout allotted to the B1G, thus decreasing the share among the current 14 members.

I have no doubt in my mind that Delany has already ran the numbers on UConn, so whatever those numbers are should determine if UConn is ever invited or not.

 

[buddy]

I think UConn would be in a better position if there were more 4/5 star football talent in the state. I remember reading that adding Maryland and Rutgers has essentially doubled the number of 4/5 star recruits that live in B1G territory, if you include Virginia in those numbers (in which case the most populated region of VA is the DC suburbs with direct access to UMD).

As great as the basketball programs are at UConn, the B1G has given no indication that basketball plays any part in expansion. In terms of expansion, I think basketball is lumped in with all the Olympic sports. Now the ACC is a different story. It seems that their expansion has always been about basketball (besides money of course).

Ultimately, I think it comes down to can UConn add enough money to the B1G to not only pay for itself, but to add millions of dollars to the coffers that are split by the rest of the conference? The B1G isn't looking to break even on expansion. New teams have to add money to everyone's pocketbook. With the new P5 football payout, that becomes harder and harder, as any new conference teams would receive a share of the new P5 football payout allotted to the B1G, thus decreasing the share among the current 14 members.

I have no doubt in my mind that Delany has already ran the numbers on UConn, so whatever those numbers are should determine if UConn is ever invited or not.

Thank you for that update. I'm sure that all of those 4 and 5 star recruits in MD and NJ are going to make a tremendous difference for you all. Let's face it, in football the B1G is now probably in fourth place among the P5, with the addition of Rutgers and MD dragging them down even further. So, now the question is, is it money or athletic success that matters the the B1G. You started off by alluding to athletic success, but then concluded that it was money. You appear to be a little confused.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I think UConn would be in a better position if there were more 4/5 star football talent in the state. I remember reading that adding Maryland and Rutgers has essentially doubled the number of 4/5 star recruits that live in B1G territory, if you include Virginia in those numbers (in which case the most populated region of VA is the DC suburbs with direct access to UMD).

As great as the basketball programs are at UConn, the B1G has given no indication that basketball plays any part in expansion. In terms of expansion, I think basketball is lumped in with all the Olympic sports. Now the ACC is a different story. It seems that their expansion has always been about basketball (besides money of course).

Ultimately, I think it comes down to can UConn add enough money to the B1G to not only pay for itself, but to add millions of dollars to the coffers that are split by the rest of the conference? The B1G isn't looking to break even on expansion. New teams have to add money to everyone's pocketbook. With the new P5 football payout, that becomes harder and harder, as any new conference teams would receive a share of the new P5 football payout allotted to the B1G, thus decreasing the share among the current 14 members.

I have no doubt in my mind that Delany has already ran the numbers on UConn, so whatever those numbers are should determine if UConn is ever invited or not.

I always though the recruiting angle regarding Connecticut was a red herring..
The distance from the Best recruiting ground in NJ and Ct is less than 100 miles.
Adding another team within a short driving distance of your home increases the chances of a recruit going to that conference. To be honest Maryland isn't all that far either. Plus New England does produce some football talent is a bonus.
Huge non issue

 

[pj]

There are 35 million people in New England and New York State, and many talented athletes. High school football has not been big here, but neither has college football. Entry of the B1G would raise the profile of the sport immensely.

I don't think adding UConn would be a negative from the football recruiting standpoint. But it will be different, recruiting top athletes away from basketball rather than recruiting football players away from Alabama.

The market size criticism is ridiculous. UConn dominates Connecticut more than any but a handful of schools dominate their media markets; and Connecticut treated as one media market would be #20 in the nation. Uniquely for a top 40 media market, there is no in-state pro sports competition and no other college that attracts significant fans.

If someone came up with a metric based on fan domination in a media market, i.e. number of local fans captured by a primary allegiance with no significant secondary allegiance, UConn's market might rank in the top 10 nationally.

UConn still has work to do building up its brand nationally and growing its football brand locally, that is why it is only middling (lower P5) on the revenue metrics, but that will come.

 

[SAMCRO]

So, now the question is, is it money or athletic success that matters the the B1G.

The answer is whichever of the two most negatively impacts UConn.

 

[Adios]

Realignment is not over. Gotta love journalists who don't even do research. What's good?

 

[upstater]

When people say the recruiting territory is terrible, they are lumping in New England and upstate NY as Conn. Whereas a few years ago, Conn. was pumping out kids that went to the NFL. That can happen again. The state is comparable to Maryland, about 1/3rd less in size and population. Of all New England states, Conn. can produce talent to sustain a football program here.

 

[Sea Goat]

I think UConn would be in a better position if there were more 4/5 star football talent in the state. I remember reading that adding Maryland and Rutgers has essentially doubled the number of 4/5 star recruits that live in B1G territory, if you include Virginia in those numbers (in which case the most populated region of VA is the DC suburbs with direct access to UMD).

As great as the basketball programs are at UConn, the B1G has given no indication that basketball plays any part in expansion. In terms of expansion, I think basketball is lumped in with all the Olympic sports. Now the ACC is a different story. It seems that their expansion has always been about basketball (besides money of course).

Ultimately, I think it comes down to can UConn add enough money to the B1G to not only pay for itself, but to add millions of dollars to the coffers that are split by the rest of the conference? The B1G isn't looking to break even on expansion. New teams have to add money to everyone's pocketbook. With the new P5 football payout, that becomes harder and harder, as any new conference teams would receive a share of the new P5 football payout allotted to the B1G, thus decreasing the share among the current 14 members.

I have no doubt in my mind that Delany has already ran the numbers on UConn, so whatever those numbers are should determine if UConn is ever invited or not.

I think you are dead wrong re: basketball being driver in ACC expansion. If it truly was basketball, then why wasn't UConn taken over any of the schools added in the last 12 years? Name one addition to the ACC in the last 12 years that has come close to accomplishing what UConn has in basketball. The ACC expansion was driven by a combination of bitterness, petty jealousies, perceived football prominence (or lack thereof) and, maybe, by being simply outworked. Also, the ACC had to check its academic standards at the door when it sought out Louisville. I don't think many people saw that coming.

 

[ramses 2.0]

The MD/PA/NJ corridor is definitely close enough for UConn to tap into, the only problem is that it's crowded with several ACC& B1G teams along with Notre Dame. IMO their is not enough high level talent to supply all of these teams, so you really have to develop some sort if pipeline down south to supplement your base.

 

[ArizonaKnight]

The MD/PA/NJ corridor is definitely close enough for UConn to tap into, the only problem is that it's crowded with several ACC& B1G teams along with Notre Dame. IMO their is not enough high level talent to supply all of these teams, so you really have to develop some sort if pipeline down south to supplement your base.

Crowded? You have four Power 5 teams in PA, NJ, and MD combined as opposed to say North Carolina, which also has four Power 5 teams in only one state.

 

[ramses 2.0]

[/QUOTE]

Crowded? You have four Power 5 teams in PA, NJ, and MD combined as opposed to say North Carolina, which also has four Power 5 teams in only one state.

45 of the top 50 recruits signed with power conference schools last year, so their is a solid base to start with plus you still have VA,SC,GA & FL. UNC's campus is only 3 hrs from the most fertile recruiting area's in VA. Now the MD-NJ corridor is recrutied by every B1G school, several ACC schools & the top kids are recruited by every major conference school. That corridor only produces 150 D1 prospects per yr while the VA-FL corridor produces between 350-400 per year

 

[upstater]

The MD/PA/NJ corridor is definitely close enough for UConn to tap into, the only problem is that it's crowded with several ACC& B1G teams along with Notre Dame. IMO their is not enough high level talent to supply all of these teams, so you really have to develop some sort if pipeline down south to supplement your base.

People say this out of bias. But the record shows that UConn had 21-23 players in the NFL last year. Most of them made teams in the last 5 years. And this talent came out of Conn., MA, NY, Pa mainly, with a few Florida kids.

 

[ArizonaKnight]

45 of the top 50 recruits signed with power conference schools last year, so their is a solid base to start with plus you still have VA,SC,GA & FL. UNC's campus is only 3 hrs from the most fertile recruiting area's in VA. Now the MD-NJ corridor is recrutied by every B1G school, several ACC schools & the top kids are recruited by every major conference school. That corridor only produces 150 D1 prospects per yr while the VA-FL corridor produces between 350-400 per year[/QUOTE]

If VA-FL is a "corridor" then CT-GA should also be one at least in terms of miles. They are both about 1000 miles trips. Or the Storrs-Chicago corridor.

Bottom line for me at least is Rutgers and Maryland are the only Power 5 schools in their state as opposed to UNC which shares its state with 3 other Programs. That is an advantage, but only of Rutgers or Maryland can take advantage of that. Sure the B1G schools recruit the heck out of NJ but it's not like the SEC schools can't locate North Carolina on a map.

 

[ramses 2.0]

45 of the top 50 recruits signed with power conference schools last year, so their is a solid base to start with plus you still have VA,SC,GA & FL. UNC's campus is only 3 hrs from the most fertile recruiting area's in VA. Now the MD-NJ corridor is recrutied by every B1G school, several ACC schools & the top kids are recruited by every major conference school. That corridor only produces 150 D1 prospects per yr while the VA-FL corridor produces between 350-400 per year

If VA-FL is a "corridor" then CT-GA should also be one at least in terms of miles. They are both about 1000 miles trips. Or the Storrs-Chicago corridor.

Bottom line for me at least is Rutgers and Maryland are the only Power 5 schools in their state as opposed to UNC which shares its state with 3 other Programs. That is an advantage, but only of Rutgers or Maryland can take advantage of that. Sure the B1G schools recruit the heck out of NJ but it's not like the SEC schools can't locate North Carolina on a map.[/QUOTE]
Neither Rutgers or Maryland sign the majority of it's top recruits . Of the top 30 in each state the ACC signed 19 & the B1G signed 30. Both only signed a couple of the top 10, so they haven't had much of a advantage & won't if both end up near the bottom of east division

 

[ramses 2.0]

UOTE="upstater, post: 1038978, member: 153"]People say this out of bias. But the record shows that UConn had 21-23 players in the NFL last year. Most of them made teams in the last 5 years. And this talent came out of Conn., MA, NY, Pa mainly, with a few Florida kids.[/QUOTE]
Does enough talent exist to put a high caliber team on the field & can you keep some of that talent home? I have no doubt that the northeast has the population base to find enough athletes who can play football. So it's not a question of genetics but how fast they can get up to speed to compete against kids that have played better competition , been exposed to better coaching & have more opportunities to develop their skills.

 

[upstater]

UOTE="upstater, post: 1038978, member: 153"]People say this out of bias. But the record shows that UConn had 21-23 players in the NFL last year. Most of them made teams in the last 5 years. And this talent came out of Conn., MA, NY, Pa mainly, with a few Florida kids.

Does enough talent exist to put a high caliber team on the field & can you keep some of that talent home? I have no doubt that the northeast has the population base to find enough athletes who can play football. So it's not a question of genetics but how fast they can get up to speed to compete against kids that have played better competition , been exposed to better coaching & have more opportunities to develop their skills.[/QUOTE]

UConn had a lot of talent on the field when Edsall was here. It didn't pan out into enough wins though, but he was a little set in his ways with offense. In other words, it was pretty abysmal. On defense they have been putting out LBs, CBs and DL into the NFL year after year. It's hard to blame Edsall since he recruited those players and developed them, but it didn't really translate into as many wins as it should have. UConn put more kids in the NFL than any other BE team except for Rutgers in those years.

 

[ramses 2.0]

UConn had a lot of talent on the field when Edsall was here. It didn't pan out into enough wins though, but he was a little set in his ways with offense. In other words, it was pretty abysmal. On defense they have been putting out LBs, CBs and DL into the NFL year after year. It's hard to blame Edsall since he recruited those players and developed them, but it didn't really translate into as many wins as it should have. UConn put more kids in the NFL than any other BE team except for Rutgers in those years.[/QUOTE]
And that's why coaches prefer to have as many kids as close to being ready to contribute before they reach campus. If it takes 2-3 years to develop a kid then the next coach your school hires might benefit from the your hard work

 

[ArizonaKnight]

Neither Rutgers or Maryland sign the majority of it's top recruits . Of the top 30 in each state the ACC signed 19 & the B1G signed 30. Both only signed a couple of the top 10, so they haven't had much of a advantage & won't if both end up near the bottom of east division

Looking at 2015 the B1G is dominating NJ, PA and MD and this will only grow in NJ and PA as the B1G establishes roots. Like I said, it's up to Maryland and Rutgers to take advantage of the fact that they are the only BCS team in their states.

 

[upstater]

And that's why coaches prefer to have as many kids as close to being ready to contribute before they reach campus. If it takes 2-3 years to develop a kid then the next coach your school hires might benefit from the your hard work

I think you missed the point.

UConn put a lot of homegrown and nearby kids in the NFL over the last several years. Whether they took one or two years to develop is irrelevant, since the overall number was high. In fact, UNC had 22 players last year. That's UConn's number.

 

[ramses 2.0]

Looking at 2015 the B1G is dominating NJ, PA and MD and this will only grow in NJ and PA as the B1G establishes roots. Like I said, it's up to Maryland and Rutgers to take advantage of the fact that they are the only BCS team in their states.

You mean Penn State is dominating those areas & that's not a surprise considering how strong a recruiter Franklin is & Penn State's history

 

[ArizonaKnight]

You mean Penn State is dominating those areas & that's not a surprise considering how strong a recruiter Franklin is & Penn State's history

That does not conflict with what I said. The B1G (with PSU leading the charge) is dominating NJ, PA and MD and will continue to do so as the conference settles in its new territory. I would also venture to guess that VA will begin seeing more kids commit to B1G schools (compared to years past) now that the B1G is on its doorstep. Michigan already has a verbal from the top rated commit in VA for 2015.

Again, its up to Rutgers and Maryland to land our own in state kids. Schiano's last class in 2012 landed something like 10 of the top 15 NJ kids. Flood has pissed that momentum away.